Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
okrkZyki ua- 530] cEcbZ] rk% 9-3-08
Disc.CD No.530, dated 9.3.08 at Bombay
ftKklq & ckck] Hkxoku gh lkjk [ksy jprk gS ---------ckck & Hkxoku gh lkjk [ksy jprk gS! iwN jgs gSa\
ftKklq & ,slk cksyrs gSaA
Student: Baba, God Himself creates the entire drama….
Baba: God Himself creates the entire drama! Are you asking?
Student: It is said like this.
ckck %& eqjyh esa ogh rks vk;kA dksbZ dgrs gSa& ;s lkjk [ksy Hkxoku gh jprs gSaA rks
Hkxoku FkksM+s gh ;s [ksy jprs gSaA okLro esa Hkxoku ftlesa izos’k djrk gS vkSj tks lcls
czkWM Mªkek ctkrk gS jaxeap ij] oks rks ghjks ikVZ/kkjh gSA tks ghjks ikVZ/kkjh lcls tkLrh czkWM
Mªkek ctkrk gS] oks gh HkfDrekxZ esa lcls T;knk ‘kkL= fy[krk gSA rks T;knk ‘kkL= fdlus
fy[ks\ O;kl us fy[ksA oks gh lcls T;knk Mªkekckth djrk gSA Hkxoku FkksM+s gh Mªkekckth
djrk gSA Hkxoku dks ;s lc Mªkekckth djus dh D;k njdkj\ oks rks vkrk gS] flQZ jkLrk
crkrk gSA viuh&2 dFkk&dgkfu;k¡ yEch&2 pkSM+h&2 lkjh dFkk&dgkfu;k¡ dkgs esa fy[k nha\
vius&2 ‘kkL=ksa esa fy[k nhaA rks cuk;k fdlus\ ftUgksaus Mªkek cuk;k] mUgksaus gh cSB djds
fy[kkA oks gh HkfDrekxZ dk foLrkj djrs gSaA
Baba: The same thing has been mentioned in the Murli. Some people say that, God Himself
creates this entire drama. So, God doesn’t create this drama. Actually, the one in whom God
enters and the one who plays the maximum (role) in the broad drama on this stage is the hero
actor. The hero actor who plays the maximum part in the broad drama writes the maximum
scriptures in the path of worship. So, who wrote more scriptures? (Sage) Vyas wrote it. He
enacts the maximum. God does not enact. Where is the need for God to enact in such a way? He
comes and just shows the path. In what have they written their biographies, the lengthy stories?
They have written it in their scriptures. So, who created it? The ones, who created the drama, sat
and wrote. It is they who expand the path of worship.
le; & 01-40
ftKklq & ckck] lh<+h ds fp= esa lr;qx esa igys jk/kk&Ñ”.k dk QksVks fn[kk;kA mlds ckn
esa y{eh&ukjk;.k dkA jk/kk&Ñ”.k NksVs :i esa] y{eh&ukjk;.k dks cM+s :i esa fn[kk;kA
jk/kk&Ñ”.k y{eh&ukjk;.k dh larku gSa] rks jk/kk&Ñ”.k dks igys dSls crk;k\
Time: 01.40
Student: Baba, in the picture of the ladder, in the Golden Age, first the photo of Radha Krishna
has been shown. After that the photo of Lakshmi-Narayan has been shown. Radha & Krishna
have been shown in a young form, whereas Lakshmi and Narayan have been shown in a grown
up form. If Radha and Krishna are the children of Lakshmi and Narayan, then why have Radha
and Krsihna been shown before them?
ckck & okLro esa tks y{eh&ukjk;.k lr;qx ds vkfn dh lhf<+;ksa ¼ds ckgj½ esa fn[kk, x,
gSa] oks og y{eh&ukjk;.k fn[kk, x, gSa ftUgsa laxe;qxh uj&ukjk;.k dgk tkrk gSA blfy,
Ñ”.k dks Hkh cM+s :i esa fn[kk;k x;k gS vkSj mudh tks iSnkb’k gS] oks lr;qx esa igys tUe
esa gksrh gSA mudks NksVs cPpksa ds :i esa fn[kk;k gSA ,sls gh ;s y{eh&ukjk;.k ds fp= esa Hkh
gSA igys uj ukjk;.k fQj muds cPps jk/kk&Ñ”.kA ckdh y{eh&ukjk;.k ds fp= esa laxe;qxh
jk/kk&Ñ”.k dks ugha fn[kk;k gS vkSj tks lh<+h dk fp= gS] mlesa laxe;qxh jk/kk&Ñ”.k dks
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Website: www.pbks.info
Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
igys fn[kk;k gSA fQj cM+s gksus ij ¼laxe;qxh½ y{eh&ukjk;.k ds cPps jk/kk&Ñ”.k fn[kk,
gSaA
Baba: Actually, the Lakshmi and Narayan, who have been shown outside the initial steps of the
Golden Age, are the ones who are called the Confluence-aged Nar-Narayan. That is why
Krishna has been shown in a grown-up form as well and they are born in the first birth of the
Golden Age. They have been shown in the form of small children. Similarly, this is shown in the
picture of Lakshmi and Narayan as well. First Nar-Narayan and then their children RadhaKrishna. As regards the picture of Lakshmi and Narayan, the Confluence-aged Radha and
Krishna have not been shown. And in the picture of ladder the Confluence-aged Radha and
Krishna have been shown first. When they grow up (to become Confluence aged) Lakshmi and
Narayan; their children Radha and Krishna have been shown.
le; & 03-23
ftKklq & ckck] lsfeukj vkSj dpgjh esa D;k QdZ gS\
ckck & dpgjh dk eryc ;s gS fd & dksbZ Hkh ckrsa mYVh&iYVh djrs gSa] fQj mu ckrksa dks
ysdj ds vkil esa ysu&nsu djrs jgrs gSa & blus ,slk fd;k] ,slk dgk] oSlk dgk] ,slk
Bhd ugha dgk] oSlk Bhd ugha dgk & oks gks xbZ dpgjh vkSj lsfeukj rks tSls dkWuÝsUl
gksrh gS] ,sls lsfeukj gksrh gSA
Time: 03.23
Student: Baba, what is the difference between a seminar and a court (kachahari)?
Baba: Kachahari means that if someone speaks something confusing , then they exchange
views with each other about those topics: this one did like this, said like this, said like that, he
did not speak this correctly , he did not speak that correctly . That is called a kachahari and as
regards seminar; just as there are conferences, similarly there are seminars.
le; & 04-02
ftKklq & ckck] Hkxoku rks ,d gSa vkSj ftuesa izos’k djrs gSa] oks Hkxoku& Hkxorh curs gSaA
ckck & Hkxorh rks fQj nwljh gks xbZ uk!
ftKklq & Roeso ekrk p firk Roesso dgk gSA
ckck & ÞRoeso ekrk p firk Roesoß tks dgk gS mldk vFkZ gS& v/kZukjh’ojA ftlesa czg~ek
dh lksy izos’k djds ikVZ ctkrh gSA gS ,d gh] ftldks nwljs ‘kCnksa esa dgk x;k &
^ckinknkA*
Time: 04.02
Student: Baba, God is one and the one in whom He enters become Bhagwaan-Bhagwati (GodGodess).
Baba: Bhagwati is a different person, isn’t she?
Student: It has been said, ‘you are the mother and the father’ (twamev mata cha pita twamev).
Baba: ‘Twamev mata cha pita twamev’ means ‘Ardhanaareeshwar’ (half male and half female)
in which the soul of Brahma enters and plays its part. It is only one (personality), which has
been called ‘Bapdada’ in other words.
ftKklq & ogh y{eh&ukjk;.k ds :i esa--------ckck & y{eh&ukjk;.k ds :i esa y{eh tks gS] oks rks Hkxorh gSA Hkxoku ,d gksrk gSA ßxkWM
bt ouÞ dgk tkrk gSA oks flQZ y{eh dk VkbfVy ek= gSA
ftKklq & ftlesa izos’k djrs gSa------ckck & oks gh gSA
ftKklq & eqd+jZj jFk esa izos’k djrs gSaA
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Website: www.pbks.info
Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
Student: They are in the form of Lakshmi-Narayan….
Baba: In the form of Lakshmi and Narayan, Lakshmi is Bhagwati. God is one. It is said, ‘God
is one’. That is just a title of Lakshmi.
Student: The one in whom He enters….
Baba: It is only Him .
Student: He enters in the appointed chariot.
ckck & ftl eqd+jZj jFk esa izos’k djrs gSa] oks gh Roeso ekrk p firk RoesoA Roe ekus Roe~]
;qoke~] ;q;e~A Roe~ dgk tkrk gS ,d dksA ftldh ,d esa fxurhA tc y{eh&ukjk;.k dgk
tk,xk] rks nks gks x, fd ,d gqvk\
ftKklq & nks gks x,A
ckck & gk¡] rks xkWM Qknj ugha dgk tk ldrkA xkWM bt ou vkSj ogh Qknj gSA y{eh dks
Qknj ugha dgsaxsA
ftKklq & y{eh&ukjk;.k dks ;s tks Hkxoku&Hkxorh dh mikf/k feyrh gS uk!
ckck & oks ek= mikf/k gSA vlyh ugha gSaA vlyh Hkxoku rks ,d gh gS] tks fujkdkjh LVst
okyk gSA y{eh fujkdkjh LVst okyh ugha gksrhA
Baba: The appointed chariot, in which He enters, is twamev mata cha pita twamev. Twam
means twam (you), yuvaam (both of you), yuyam (all of you). Twam means one, who is counted
as one. When it is said, ‘Lakshmi-Narayan’, are they two or one?
Student: They are two.
Baba: Yes, so He cannot be called God the Father. God is one and He is the Father. Lakshmi
cannot be called the Father.
Student: Lakshmi and Narayan receive the title of Bhagwaan-Bhagwati, don’t they?
Baba: It is just a title. It is not true. Actual Bhagwaan is only one, who has an incorporeal stage.
Lakshmi does not have an incorporeal stage.
le; & 05-45
ftKklq & ckck] vkt eqjyh esa vk;k fd & eSa tkuh&tkuugkj ugha gw¡aA
ckck & ugha gw¡( Bhd gSA tkuh&tkuugkj 500&700 djksM+ ds fny dks tkudj ds D;k
djsxk\ t+:jr gS\ t+:jr gh ughaA [kkl&2 eq[; ikVZ/kkfj;ksa ds ckjs esa crkrk gw¡] 5&7 ds
ckjs esaA v”Vnso dgks] lkr&vkB ukjk;.k dgks] lkr&vkB /keZfirk,¡ dgksA muds ckjs esa
fMVsy ns nsrk gw¡A
Time: 05.45
Student: Baba, today it has been said in the Murli that, “I am not the one who knows everything
(jaani-jaananhaar)”.
Baba: I am not (jaani-jaananhaar). It is correct. Jaani-Jaananhaar. What will He do by
knowing the heart of 5-7 billion people? Is there any need? There is no need at all. I tell about
the special main actors, about 5-7 actors. Call them the eight deities, call them seven-eight
Narayans, and call them seven-eight religious fathers. I give their details…..
le; & 06-54
ftKklq & ckck] O;kl dk ikVZ fdldk gS\
ckck & bruk cM+k Dykl yxk gqvk gSA *fo* ekuk fo’ks”k vkSj *vkl* ekuk cSB tk,A rks buesa
lc rks mB&mB ds Hkkxrs jgrs gSaA [kkl dkSu cSBk jgrk gS\ tks fo’ks”k :i ls blh dke ds
fy, cSBk jgssA D;k\ mldk ‘kkL=ksa esa uke iM+ x;k & O;kl] vkSj O;kl dh Hkh xn~fn;k¡ pyh
gSaA ,d O;kl us ‘kjhj NksM+k] rks mldk tks psyk xn~nh ij cSBk] mldk uke O;kl j[k
fn;kA fQj xn~nh dk gh uke j[k nsrs gSa & O;kl xn~nhA tks Hkh cSBsxk] mlh dk uke O;klA
ftKklq & tSls & ‘kadjkpk;Z dk gksrk gSA
3
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Website: www.pbks.info
Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
ckck& ughaA ‘kadjkpk;Z dh O;kl xn~nh ughaA
ftKklq & ekuk tks Hkh xn~nh ij cSBsxk oks ‘akdjkpk;Z cusxk ckckA
ckck %& g¡A
Time: 06.54
Student: Baba, who plays the part of Vyas?
Baba: Such a big class is going on. Vi means vishesh (special) and ‘aas’ means ‘sits’. So,
among these everyone keeps running away. Who continues to sit especially? The one who
especially continues to sit for this task. What? He has been given the name in the scriptures as
‘Vyaas’. And even Vyas had his successors. When one Vyas left his body, then the follower,
who occupied his seat, was named Vyas. Then the seat itself is named as the ‘seat of Vyas’.
Whoever sits on it will receive the title of Vyas.
Student: For example, Shankaracharya.
Baba: No. Shankaracharya’s seat is not a seat of Vyas.
Student: Baba, I mean to say whoever sits on his seat will become Shankaracharya.
Baba: Hm.
le; & 08-07
ftKklq & ckck] jke&Ñ”.k ds dEckbUM Lo:i dks fo”.kq dg ldrs gSa\
ckck & jke vkSj Ñ”.k ds dEckbUM Lo:i dks fo”.kq blfy, ugha dg ldrs fd & nksuksa esy
(male) gks x,A oks pkj Hkqtk,¡a rks cuh ughaA ,d Hkqtk Ñ”.k dh vkRek :ih lg;ksxh vkSj
,d jke dh vkRek :ih lg;ksxhA rks nks gh Hkqtk,¡ cuha vkSj fo”.kq dks rks pkj Hkqtk,¡
pkfg,A rks mudh lg;ksfxuh ‘kfDr;k¡ Hkh ysuh iM+saA muds thou dky esa ftlus mudks
lcls tkLrh lg;ksx fn;k] oks Hkh pkfg,A
Time: 08.07
Student: Baba, can the combined form of Ram and Krishna be called Vishnu?
Baba: The combined form of Ram and Krishna cannot be called Vishnu because both are males.
They did not constitute the four arms. One helper arm in the form of the soul of Krishna and one
helper arm in the form of the soul of Ram. So, these constituted just two arms. And Vishnu
requires four arms. So, their helper shaktis will also have to be included. The souls who gave the
maximum co-operation to them in their lifetime are required as well.
le; & 09-04
ftKklq & ckck] laxe;qx esa fo’ks”k :i ls vklu yxk ds cSBuk ,d dk gh ikVZ gS\
ckck & fdldk\
ftKklq & laxe;qx esa O;kl dk tks ikVZ gS] fo’ks”k :Ik ls vklu yxkuk----ckck & laxe;qx esa HkDrksa dk ikVZ ugha gksrk gSA ‘kkL= fy[kuk] djuk & ;s O;kl dk dke
gSA
ftKklq & ---------------ckck & gk¡] laxe;qx dh ;knxkj gSA
ftKklq & laxe;qx esa Dykl esa fo’ks”k :Ik ls cSBk jgrk gSA
ckck %& fdlfy,\ blfy, oks cSBrk gS fd mldks rks le>kuk gSA ‘kkL= ugha fy[kuk gSA
Time: 09.04
Student: Baba, is it the part of only one soul to sit in a special posture aasana at Confluence
age?
Baba: Whose?
Student: The part of Vyas to sit in a special posture……..
Baba: There is no part of devotees in the Confluence Age. Writing scriptures, etc. is the work of
Vyas.
4
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Website: www.pbks.info
Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
Student:…….
Baba: Yes, it is the memorial of the Confluence Age.
Student: He sits in a special way in the class in the Confluence Age.
Baba: Why? He sits because he has to explain. He does not have to write scriptures.
ftKklq & tks ml xn~nh ij cSBrk gS] ,d gh gS uk!
ckck & cSBrs gSa ukA xn~nh is cSBrs ugha gSa\ czg~ek ckck ds tkus ds ckn D;k cSBs ugha\
ftKklq & czg~ek ckck dks O;kl ugha dg ldrs gSa u ckckA
ckck & czg~ek ckck dks O;kl ugha dgsaxs( ysfdu tc rd tkudkjh ugha gS rc rd mudks
D;k le>k\ cPpksa dks muds eqdkcys dksbZ vkSj T;knk cSB djds le>kus okyk Fkk\ dksbZ
ugha FkkA rks mUgha dks ekuuk iM+sA
Student: The one, who occupies that seat (gaddi), is just one (person), isn’t it?
Baba: They sit, don’t they? Don’t they occupy the seat? Did they not sit after Brahma Baba
departed?
Student: Baba, Brahma Baba cannot be called Vyas, can he be?
Baba: Brahma Baba will not be called Vyas, what did they consider him up until they had the
information? Was there anyone other who sat and explained to the children more than him?
There was nobody else. So, he will have to be accepted (as Vyas at that time).
ftKklq & rks xn~nh pykuk & ;s rks HkfDrekxZ gSA
ckck & blhfy, rks crk;k & fo’ks”k vklA ,d gksrk gS vklu ekj djds cSB tkukA y{;
D;k gS\ dksbZ le>s ;k u le>s mudks cSBuk gSA vkSj ;gk¡ y{; D;k gS\ ;gk¡ rks le>kuk
gSA ckr cqf) esa u cSBs rks dke gh iwjk ugha gksxkA ogk¡ rks dke iwjk gks ;k u gks] ogk¡ dksbZ
y{; gh ugha gSA dke D;k djsaxs! HkfDrekxZ esa dksbZ y{; gksrk gS\ ughaA
Student: So, accession of the seat is a path of worship.
Baba: That is why it has been said, vishesh aas (special asana). One is to sit in a special asana
(posture). What is the target? Whether someone understands or not he has to sit. And what is the
target here? Here He has explain. If the issue does not sit in the intellect then the task will not be
completed at all. There, whether the task is completed or not, there is no target there. What will
they do? Is there any target in the path of worship? No.
le; & 11-18
ftKklq & ckck] fo”.kq vkSj oS”.koh esa varj D;k gS\
ckck & tSls egky{eh dgrs gSa] egkukjk;.k dgrs gSaA egkukjk;.k esa iq#”k vkxs vkSj
egky{eh esa L=h pksyk vkxsA ,sls gh fo”.kq vkSj oS”.kohA fo”.kq esa iq#”k pksyk vkxs gS vkSj
oS”.koh esa nksuksa L=h pksys vkxs gSaA ckd+h ,sls ugha fd oS”.koh dksbZ fo/kok gSA
Time: 11.18
Student: Baba, what is the difference between Vishnu and Vaishnavi?
Baba: For example, they say Mahalakshmi, Mahanarayan. In MahaNarayan the male (body) is
in the front and in Mahalakshmi the female body is in the front. Similar is the case with Vishnu
and Vaishnavi. The male body is in the front in Vishnu and both the female bodies are in front in
Vaishnavi. And for the rest of all, it is not as if Vaishnavi is a widow.
le; & 12-01
ftKklq & ckck] cksyk gS & ßxq#Z czg~ek xq#Z fo”.kq xq#Z nsoks egs’oj% vkSj xq# lk{kkr~
ijeczg~eÞ ;s ijeczg~e eryc fujkdkj f’ko dh ckr gqbZ\
ckck %& oks rks czg~e dks gh Hkxoku le> fy;k gS] blhfy, ijeczg~e dg nsrs gSaA gesa rks
irk gS & czg~e rks jgus dk LFkku gSA czg~e dksbZ Hkxoku ugha gS] blfy, xq#Z czg~ek] xq# tks
5
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Website: www.pbks.info
Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
gksxk] oks lkdkj gksxk ;k fujkdkj gksxk\ xq# rks lkdkj gh gksrk gSA oks ‘yksd mUgksaus
cuk;k gS] oks rks vius n`f”Vdks.k ls cuk;k gSA vc gedks le> esa vkrk gS fd & xq#Z czg~ek
oks uhph LVst esa lkdkj nqfu;k¡ dh vksjA xq#Z fo”.kq] oks Hkh e/; dh LVst gSA xq#Z nsoks
egs’oj%] egk bZ’ojA bZ’oj ekus czg~Ekk us Hkh czkg~e.kksa dks dUVªksy fd;k] oS”.koh Hkh dUVªksy
djrh gS( ysfdu czg~ek dks Hkh vkSj fo”.kq dks Hkh] lcdks dUVªksy esa djus okyk Åij rhljk
rcDdk gSA oks egk&bZ’oj dgk tkrk gSA
Time: 12.01
Student: Baba, it has been said, ‘Gurur Brahma Gurur Vishnu, Gurur Devo Maheshwarah’ and
‘Guru Saakshaat Parambrahm’. Does Parambrahm mean the incorporeal Shiv?
Baba: They have considered ‘Brahm’ to be God; that is why they say Parambrahm. We know
that Brahm is a place of residence. Brahm is not God. That is why as regards ‘Gurur Brahma’,
will the guru be corporeal or incorporeal? Guru is corporeal. They have made that shloka; they
have made it from their own point of view. Now we understand that Gurur Brahma is in a lower
stage towards the corporeal world. Also Gurur Vishnu is in a middle stage. Gurur Devo
Maheshwarah, Maha Eeshwar. Eeshwar means that even Brahma controlled the Brahmins,
Vaishnavi controls as well, but the the third stage above is the one who controls even Brahma
and Vishnu as well. He is called Mahaa Eeshwar.
ftKklq & ßxq# lk{kkr~ czg~eÞ dk ogk¡ is dksbZ vFkZ ugha gqvk\
ckck & czg~e rks Hkxoku gS gh ughaA lk{kkr~ Hkxoku tks gS] oks egk&bZ’oj ds }kjk gh lk{kkr~
ekuk lkeusA
ftKklq & ugha] tSls vHkh Kku esa dgrs gSa fd & f=ewfrZ f’ko gSA
ckck & mUgksaus rks pkj fn[kk fn, gSaA
ftKklq & f=ewfrZ f’ko rhu ewfrZ;ksa ds }kjk gh izR;{k gksrs gSaA tks lqçhe lksy f’ko gaS] oks
bu rhuksa ls Åij gks x, uk ckck\
ckck & Åij vkSj uhps rc dgk¡ gksrk gS\ lkdkj yksd esa ;k fujkdkj yksd esa\
ftKklq & lkdkj yksd eas gksrk gSA
Student: Isn’t there any meaning of ‘Guru saakshaat Brahm’ there?
Baba: Brahm is not God at all. God becomes saakshaat, i.e. face to face only through MahaaEeshwar, saakshat means in front of the eyes.
Student: No, just as it is said now in the knowledge that there is Trimurty Shiv.
Baba: They have shown four.
Student: Trimurty Shiv reveals only through three idols. The Supreme Soul Shiv is above all
these three, isn’t He Baba?
Baba: Then where is above and below? Is it in the corporeal world or in the incorporeal world?
Student: It is in the corporeal world.
ckck& rks fQj! czg~eyksd dgk¡ ls pys x,\
ftKklq & rhuksa dh jpuk djus okys rks ogh gSa ukA
ckck & jpuk lkdkj nqfu;k¡ esa gksrh gS ;k fujkdkjh nqfu;k¡ esa gksrh gS\ jpuk ekuk tks phTk+
igys ugha FkhA
Baba: So, then? How did they go to the Brahmlok (abode of Brahma)?
Student: He is the one who creates all the three, isn’t He?
Baba: Does creation take place in the corporeal world or in an incorporeal world? Creation
means the thing that was not present earlier.
6
Email id: a1spiritual@sify.com
Website: www.pbks.info
Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
ftKklq & ckck] lkjh ckr rks ;gk¡ is lkdkj esa gh gks jgh gSA
ckck & gk¡] rks lkdkj esa tc ckr gks jgh gS] rks czg~eyksd dh ckr gh mM+k nksA jpuk gS rks
lkdkj nqfu;k¡ esa gSA jpf;rk gS rks lkdkj nqfu;k¡ esa gSA jpuk vkSj jpf;rk dk laca/k gh
lkdkj nqfu;k¡ dk gSA jpuk vkSj jpf;rk dk ;s [ksy fujkdkjh nqfu;k¡ dk gS gh ughaA
fujkdkjh nqfu;k¡ esa l`f”V gh ugha gS] laLkj.k gh ugha gS] lalkj gh ugha gS] blfy, xq#Z czg~ek
& ;s Bhd gSA xq#Z fo”.kq oks Hkh Bhd gSA xq#Z nsoks egs’oj% vkSj fQj dgs & xq# lk{kkr~
ijeczg~e ekuk dksbZ pkSFkk vyx ugha gSA ftldks ge pkSFkk vyx djds ns[krs gSa] oks okLro
esa HkxrbZ gks xbZA
Student: Baba, all the topics are happening here in the corporeal form.
Baba: Yes, so when the issue is taking place in corporeal form, then remove the issue of
Brahmlok. When there is a creation, it is in the corporeal world. If there is creator he is in the
corporeal world. The relationship between the creation and the creator is in the corporeal world.
The drama of the creation and the creator is not of the incorporeal world at all. There is no world
in the incorporeal world at all, there is no contact at all, there is no world at all, that is why it is
right to say, Guru Brahma. Gurur Vishnu is ok as well. Gurur devo maheshwara; and then if we
say that Gurur saakshaat parbrahma, it does not mean that there is a separate fourth
(personality). The one whom we see as the fourth separate personality is actually the (vision of
a) devotee.
le; & 15-25
ftKklq & ckck] czg~ek ekuk Ñ”.k dh lksy ds lkFk esa gh lqizhe lksy us ikVZ ctk;kA mudh
lkdkjh LVst dSls feyk tcfd fujkdkj lqizhe lksy muesa izos’k djds ikVZ ctk jgs Fks vkSj
vHkh ftl izSfDVdy ikVZ/kkjh ds lkFk esa lqçhe lksy dk ikVZ py jgk gS] rks bl ru esa
izos’k djus ds ckn ;s fujkdkjh ikVZ dSls ctkrk gS\
ckck & fo”.kq ftls dgk tkrk gS] mlesa lkdkj vkSj fujkdkj nksuksa dk esy gS] blfy, fo”.kq
dks Hkxoku xkWM bt ou ugha dgk tk ldrk vkSj ‘kadj dks ou dgsaxsA
Time: 15.25
Student: Baba, the Supreme Soul played the part along with Brahma, i.e. the soul of Krishna.
Why did he achieve a corporeal stage while the incorporeal Supreme Soul was playing the part
by entering him and now the practical actor with whom the part of the Supreme soul is going
on; so, after entering in this body, how does He play an incorporeal part?
Baba: The one who is called Vishnu is a combination of both the corporeal and the incorporeal.
That is why Vishnu cannot be called as ‘God is one’. And Shankar will be said to be one.
ftKklq & ogh Ñ”.k dks Hkh xkWM bt---------ckck & oks rks HkfDrekxZ dh ckr gSA
ftKklq & ugha&2A ;gk¡ Kku esa Ñ”.k dks Hkh dgk gS fd & usDLV Vq xkWM bt Ñ”.kA
ckck & oks laxe;qxh Ñ”.k gSA tks laxe;qxh Ñ”.k gS] oks gh f’kockck gSA usDLV Vq xkWM bt
‘kadj] usDLV Vq xkWM bt Ñ”.kA oks rks nksuksa ,d gh gks x,A
Student: The same Krishna is called God is…
Baba: That is an issue of the path of worship.
Student: No, no. Here, in the knowledge it has been said even about Krishna that, ‘next to God
is Krishna’.
Baba: He is the Confluence-aged Krishna. The Confluence-aged Krishna himself is Shivbaba.
(It has also been said in the Murlis that) ‘Next to God is Shankar’; ‘next to God is Krishna’.
Both are one and the same.
7
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Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
le; & 16-46
ftKklq & ckck] cki dk tks fujkdkjh] fufoZdkjh vkSj fujgadkjh ikVZ ctrk gS( ;s ,d gh
ru ds n~okjk dgsaxs ;k czg~ek ds }kjk tks ikVZ pyk mldks Hkh bleas ‘kkfey djsaxs\
ckck & czg~ek ds }kjk tks fufoZdkjh ikVZ pysxk] mlesa gkVZQsy gksus dh dksbZ xqatkb’k gS\
fujkdkj tgk¡ fujkdkjh LVst okyk ikVZ ctk,xk] ogk¡ gkVZQsy gksus dh dksbZ ckr vk ldrh
gS\ gkVZQsy fodkfj;ksa dk gksrk gS ;k fufoZdkfj;ksa dk gksxk\ ftruh&2 vkRek fufoZdkjh
LVst eas fLFkj gksus okyh gksxh] mruh oks gkVZ esa ikWojQqy gksxhA
Time: 16.46
Student: Baba, the incorporeal, viceless and egoless part that the Father plays, will it be said to
be played through the same body or will the part that was played through Brahma also be
included in it?
Baba: If a viceless part is played through Brahma then is there any margin for a heart fail in it?
The body where the incorporeal one plays a part of incorporeal stage, can any topic of heart
failure arise there? Do the vicious ones suffer heart failure or do the viceless ones? The more the
soul will be the one to become constant in an incorporeal stage, its heart will be powerful to that
extent.
ftKklq & mudk fujkdkjh LVst D;ksa ugha cuk ckck\
ckck & oks rks ek¡ dk ikVZ gSA ek¡ dksbZ fujkdkjh curh gS D;k\ ek¡ lkdkj gksrh gSA ek¡ ekus
/kj.khA cki gksrk gS cht ekuk fujkdkjA cht ftruk lw{e mruk ikWojQqy vkSj /kj.kh
ftruh foLrkjokyh mruk gh vPNh ekuh tkrh gSA ekrk dh dWVxjh gSA txnEck gh ekrk
gSA oks gh /kj.kh dk ikVZ gSA ik¡p rRoksa esa eq[; rRo gh gS & txnEckA
Student: Why did he not achieve an incorporeal stage Baba?
Baba: That was the role of a mother. Does a mother become incorporeal? Mother is corporeal.
Ma means Earth. The Father is the seed, i.e. incorporeal. The more the seed is subtle, it is
powerful to that extent and the more the land is extensive, it is considered to be better. He
belongs to the category of a mother. Jagdamba herself is the mother. Her part is the part of
Earth. Among the five elements, the main element is – Jagdamba.
le; & 18-23
ftKklq & ckck] dkyh th us ‘kadj th ds Åij iSj D;ksa j[ks gSa \
ckck & D;ksa j[ks gSa\ Hkwy xbZ blhfy, j[k fn;kA Hkwy ls j[k fn;kA dksbZ fdlh dh
csbTtrh dj nsrk gSA fQj ckn esa ;kn vkrk gS & geus ;s D;k fd;k!
Time: 18.23
Student: Baba, why has Kali placed her leg on Shankarji?
Baba: Why has she placed? She placed it because she forgot (that he was her husband). She
placed it by mistake. Someone insults someone. Then later on he remembers – Oh no, what is it
that I have done!
le; & 18-55
ftKklq & lqcg dk vehj] ‘kke dk Qdhj ekuk D;k\
ckck & lqcg dk vehj vkSj ‘kke dk QdhjA lqcg dgk tkrk gS losjs dksA losjk vFkkZr
lr;qx :ih csgn dk losjk vkSj ‘kke ekuk dfy;qx dk var] vkf[kjh tUe esaA ukjk;.k okyh
vkRek lqcg dks vehj gksrh gS vkSj ‘kke dks dfy;qx var esa Qdhj cu tkrh gSA gn esa Hkh
vkSj csgn esa HkhA
8
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Time: 18.55
Student: What is meant by ‘rich in the morning and poor in the evening’?
Baba: Rich in the morning and poor in the evening. Morning means dawn. Dawn means the
dawn-like Golden Age in an unlimited sense and evening means the end of the Iron Age, in the
last birth. The soul of Narayan is rich in the morning and becomes poor in the evening, i.e. at the
end of Iron Age. In a limited sense as well as in an unlimited sense.
le; & 19-40
ftKklq & czg~ek ckck us 18 tuojh 1969 ds fnu ‘kjhj NksM+kA mlh fnu vO;Dr lans’k esa
igys tks lsUVsUl vk;h Fkh fd & lkdkj czg~ek esa vkfn ls ysdj var rd ikVZ ctkus dk
dk;Z uw¡/kk gqvk gSA rks tks vO;Dr gqvk oks fQj ls lkdkj dSls cusxk\
ckck & czg~ek rks lkdkj gh gksrk gSA fujkdkj dgk¡ gksrk gS!
Time: 19.40
Student: Brahma Baba left his body on 18th January, 1969. On the same day the first sentence
that was uttered in the Avyakta Sandesh was that – ‘the corporeal Brahma is destined to play the
part from the beginning to the end’. So, how can the one who has become avyakt become
corporeal again?
Baba: Brahma is certainly corporeal. He is not incorporeal?
ftKklq & ysfdu ch-ds- okyksa ds eqdkcys rks vO;Dr gks x;k rks lkdkj dSls\
ckck & oks czg~ek tks lsdsUMjh ;k rhljs uEcj dk czg~ek dgsa] oks rks vO;Dr gks x;k( ysfdu
okLro esa tks vlyh igys uEcj dk czg~ek gS] ;s FkksM+s gh dgsaxs fd & oks ‘kjhj NksM+ ds
vO;Dr gks x;kA ,d gksrk gS ‘kjhj jgrs&jgrs O;Dr vkSj vO;Dr gksuk vkSj fujkdkj gksuk
vkSj ,d gksrk gS ‘kjhj NksM+ djds O;Dr ls vO;Dr cuuk vkSj vO;Dr ls fujkdkj cuukA
,d gksrk gS var%okgd ‘kjhj ls dk;Z djuk vkSj ,d gksrk gS & ‘kjhj esa jgrs&jgrs gh
var%okgd LVst dks /kkj.k djukA rks nksuksa esa varj gqvk ukA cksyk gS & czg~ek dk ikVZ
LFkkiuk ds dk;Z esa var rd uw¡/kk gqvk gSA tc rd iwjh LFkkiuk ugha gqbZ gS] czg~ek dk ikVZ
[kRe ugha gks ldrkA bldk eryc lkdkj iztkfirk czg~ek dh ckr gS ;k tks ‘kjhj NksM+
x;k mldh ckr gS\ t+:j lkdkj dh ckr gSA
Student: But when compared to the BKs he has become avyakt, so how is he corporeal?
Baba: That Brahma, who could be said to be the secondary or the third Brahma, became avyakt,
but for the one who is actually number one Brahma; it will not be said that he left the body and
became avyakt. One thing is to become vyakt, avyakt and incorporeal while living in the body
and another thing is to leave the body and get transformed from vyakt to avyakt and from avyakt
to incorporeal. One is to work through the antahvaahak (subtle) body and the other is to achieve
the antahvaahak stage while living in the body. So, there is a difference between both of them,
isn’t it? It has been said – Brahma is destined to play his part in the task of establishment till the
end. Until establishment has taken place completely, Brahma’s part cannot end. It means that is
it a topic of the corporeal Prajapita Brahma or is it about the one who left his body and departed?
It is certainly the topic of the corporeal.
le; & 21-35
ftKklq & ckck] igys&igys cki vk;k & ;s fdldks irk pyrk gS\
ckck & cki dh ckr cki dks gh igys irk pysxhA nwljs dks dSls irk pysxhA tks vyx&2
ikVZ/kkjh gSa & nq;ksZ/ku ds ikVZ dk nq;ksZ/ku dks gh igys irk pysxk] jko.k ds ikVZ dks jko.k
gh igys tkusxkA vius&vius ikVZ dks vkRek vius vki Lo;a tkusxh fd dksbZ nwljk tkusxk
;k cki crkosaxs\ fdlh ds ikVZ dks cki crkosxk ;k dksbZ nwljk tkusxk ;k ftldk tks ikVZ
9
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Disc.CD No.530 Bombay
gksxk] oks gh Lo;a igys tkusxk\ ftldk tks ikVZ gksxk] oks gh igys vius dks vuqHkwfr
djsxkA
ftKklq & Kku ds vk/kkj ls gh djsxk uk\
ckck & Kku ds gh vk/kkj ls djsxkA
Time: 21.35
Student: Baba, first of all who comes to know that the Father has come?
Baba: The Father Himself will come to know about the Father at first. How will any other
person know? There are different actors – Duryodhan’s part will be known only to Duryodhan
first; Ravan will himself know Ravan’s part first. Will every soul know its part itself first or will
anyone else know or will the Father tell? Will the Father tell anybody’s part or will anyone else
know or will the person whose role it is will know it himself at first? Every person will realize
his part first.
Student: He would realize on the basis of knowledge only, won’t he?
Baba: He will realize only on the basis of knowledge.
le; & 22-52
ftKklq & ckck] lsod jke tks dydRrs ds ikVZ/kkjh Fks] oks ykSfdd esa flU/kh Fks fd ogk¡ ds
dydRrs ds caxkyh\
ckck& ¼lsodjke½ caxkyh czkg~e.k FksA oks ¼czg~ek ckck½ flU/kh czkg~e.k FksA Fks rks czkg~e.k ghA
ftKklq & czg~ekckck ds dusD’ku esa vk, FksA
ckck & if’pe ds czkge.k viuh dU;kvksa dks iwjc lkbM esa nsuk ilan djrs jgs vkSj nsrs
jgsA
ftKklq & dkLV dks rks cgqr egRo nsrs FksA
ckck& Hkys uhph dkLV dk gksA mlds uhph dkLV dh dU;k gksrh gS vkSj Å¡ps dkLV dk oj
gksrk gSA
Time: 22.52
Student: Baba, was Sevakram who was the actor of Calcutta a Sindhi in lokik life or was he a
Bengali of Calcutta?
Baba: (Sevakram) was a Bengali Brahmin. He (i.e. Brahma Baba) was a Sindhi Brahmin. They
were Brahmins indeed.
Student: He had come in connection with Brahma Baba.
Baba: Brahmins from the west have been preferrd to give their daughters (in marriage) to those
from the Eastern side (of India) and they had been doing so.
Student: They used to give a lot of importance to caste.
Baba: Although he may belong to a lower caste (category). The daughter is of the caste lower to
his and the bridegroom belongs to a higher caste.
………………………………………………………………………………………………
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the
translator for better understanding of the translation.
10
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