Thunder Bay Expressway
Public Information Centre #1 (July 22, 2014)
Comment
Response
The Study is expected to be completed in late 2015. At this time, the project is
Twining of the highway is the way to go, but how many not approved for construction in the 2013-2017 Northern Highways Program.
years and public money before we see this completed.
In the meantime the cement barriers is the way to go, to A detailed safety assessment is part of this study and will consider possible
save lives on this dangerous part of our highway.
interim improvements. A concrete barrier, generally referred to as a ‘median
barrier’ was part of Alternative #1. While median barriers have benefits, the
There have been a number of lives lost from vehicles issues of: snow drifting, snowplowing, drainage, median shoulder widths for
crossing to the oncoming lane.
disabled vehicles, barrier maintenance, safety and other considerations must be
considered during the evaluation process.
Although Alternative #1 (Concrete Barrier) is the least expensive of the
alternatives and has incrementally lower footprint impacts, it has significant
disbenefits including: more complex construction resulting in increased
inconvenience to the travelling public, more complex snow removal, other
maintenance concerns and less desirable sightlines at intersections.
An initial screening process was undertaken to identify critical interchange
This needs to be done.
locations including the future Northwest Arterial which would provide access to
I like alternative #1 as cost is less.
the municipal arterial road network (Oliver Road, John Street, etc.). A more
You definitely need an interchange at Oliver Road due to detailed assessment of the potential interchange locations – including Oliver
increased traffic to hospital, university, and college.
Road - will be completed before PIC #2. The criteria to be considered in the
selection of interchange sites includes:
 Level of connectivity to the long-distance highway network
 Level of connectivity to municipal road network
 Traffic demand
 Spacing between interchanges
 Consistency with approved municipal roadway initiatives
 Potential environmental, residential, commercial or other impacts.
No concerns with PIC #1
Active Transportation crossing opportunities for the Thunder Bay Expressway
Concerns with active transportation when crossing TBE.
will be considered throughout the study. The City of Thunder Bay will be
Will return to next PIC to see progress.
consulted about trails, cycling routes and pedestrian crossings.
Comment
Response
As a minimum I would like to see in the near future,
median barrier between John St. and Arthur St. W. As
well as advance warning lights at Oliver Rd (for
southbound) and harbour expressway intersections for
both directions along Lakehead expressway.
The purpose of the Study is to evaluate median alternatives and interchange
locations for the Thunder Bay Expressway.
Interim improvements (signage, lighting, etc.) will also be developed for the
Expressway.
Comprehensive recommendations for improvements to the Expressway will be
available for review at the PIC #3 (summer 2015) and in the Transportation
Interchanges are needed now at red river rd. and harbour
Environmental Study Report (TESR) in late 2015.
expressway.
Please no roundabouts on a highway expressway
During the last rebuild of the expressway I couldn’t
believe street lights were left absent between Dawson Rd
and Balsam Street. Reason for better lighting there
includes: Service to a large number of people; Poor
ambient lighting in the area; A “green” area with
numerous deer; Poor visibility at night (especially) during
the long winter nights) and when it’s dark and raining. A
real safety concern
The lighted area from Dawson to Neebing is a pleasure to
drive on.
Roundabouts have been demonstrated in Ontario and elsewhere to improve
traffic flow and reduce collision severity as compared to signalized
intersections. The study team will be conducting detailed traffic analysis and
will carefully consider safety and natural and social impacts to determine the
suitability of roundabouts in the study area.
Traffic safety is an important factor in the evaluation of alternatives and in the
operational and safety aspects of the Thunder Bay Expressway. Interim
operational improvements, including lighting requirements, will be examined as
part of this study.
I would like to comment on the safety of the Expressway.
These should be proper signs on the expressway warning
drivers that there is a pedestrian crosswalk ahead. The area
on the expressway I’m referring to is where the This Study is examining the operational and safety needs of the Thunder Bay
Expressway meets at the lights at Red River Road. Some Expressway, including signage and other matters. Both pedestrian and traffic
cars turn right off the expressway to Red River Road.
safety are important considerations that will be assessed as the study progresses.
There is no signage or crosswalk letting drivers know that
pedestrians will be crossing ahead of them. Both sides of
Red River Road where the expressway meets has no
signage or warnings for drivers that there is a pedestrian
crossing ahead.
Comment
Response
Installation of a Concrete Median Barrier involves the installation of storm
sewers prior to the construction of the barrier and will have a greater impact on
traffic with the requirement to have a safe construction zone encroaching into
Divided Highway – in town I see 1st alternative. Conc both the existing northbound and southbound lanes of the Expressway.
divider, emergency stopping lane, 2 traffic lanes and snow
removal to the right, which is what they do now. Also less Each median alternative as developed can be accommodated within the current
cost to buy more land for right-of-way. Balsam Street Expressway lands and will not require the purchase of additional lands. At
interchange, over and under, on ramps & off ramps. KISS. interchanges, minor land acquisition may be required for ramps and intersection
Red River Road, most important!! Lots of cons, lots of improvements.
trucks, lots of people walking. Any interchange where you
have to stop will be a mess. I have driven clover leafs with In regards to interchanges, appropriate designs including ramps for traffic
cars, trucks and pulling a 30 ft trailer. No stops!
leaving and entering the Expressway will be developed.
I also want to see how pedestrian traffic will be handled.
Not at all happy with what I see here tonight.
Pedestrian safety is important and will be considered during the development
and evaluation of interchange designs. Additionally, the Study Team is aware
of the importance of the City of Thunder Bay Active Transportation program
and this will also be considered under this Study.
Each Ministry of Transportation study evaluates alternatives independently
Expressway needs improvement and especially based on the needs of the specific study area under the requirements of the
MTO Class Environmental Assessment (EA) for Provincial Transportation
intersections.
Plans appear to emphasis the top notch plan you might Facilities (2000).
expect in Toronto. We need to spend money but spend
wisely. A simple clover leaf at each intersection with right The current suite of interchange designs have been effectively employed in
turn bypass like the first intersections made in the 50’s (in Ontario or elsewhere in North America. The interchange designs for this Study
will be developed and evaluated based on the operational and safety
Toronto) should be the goal.
requirements of the Thunder Bay Expressway and intersecting roadways.
These plans mean higher design, higher construction and Consultation with the City and the general public will be conducted to make
sure the selected alternative is appropriate from a community perspective.
higher maintenance.
Explain your reasons with facts. If a simple clover leaf Roundabouts are being considered where appropriate at ramp terminal
with barrier is okay for most of Southern Ontario, explain intersections as they have many potential operational and safety benefits
why not have here. Forget about roundabouts on Red including:
River Road.
 Higher capacity for the same number of lanes, and shorter delays.
 Reduction in the occurrence and severity of collisions due to speed
reductions.
Comment
Response
Prior to the initiation of this current Study, several Planning, Preliminary
Design and Detail Design Studies were undertaken in the 1990’s. The purpose
of these studies was to review and assess various alternatives to provide a new
four-lane divided Thunder Bay Expressway (TBE) with interchanges. These
studies were not completed as a result of shifting provincial priorities and
This is at least the second and probably the third session I environmental approvals were not secured for a preferred plan.
have attended. Very few changes seem to have been made
as a result of the previous studies. Red River Road and the The ministry has undertaken additional Studies to review interim improvements
TBE intersection has been somewhat improved. A major to the existing Thunder Bay Expressway (speed change lanes, left turn lanes,
new interchange was installed at Holder / Coperhagen Rd., etc.).
an intersection with very low traffic flow. Why?
I have a concern about pedestrian and bicycle traffic as The Hodder/Coperhagen Road interchange was constructed to enhance safety
well Active Transportation is increasing in popularity and and improve access to the east end of Thunder Bay as part of the improvements
the City is promoting it, and I see no accommodation for to Highway 11/17 East to Nipigon.
this type of traffic in the plans presented today.
At Red River Road, I would have a great concern about Active transportation, including pedestrians and bicycles, will be considered
the use of roundabouts because of the number of large throughout the remainder of this study and the City of Thunder Bay will be
heavy trucks in this intersection – they would be very consulted about trails, cycling routes and pedestrian crossings.
slow in a roundabout and also provide a significant
obstruction of other drivers line of sight. Likewise for Roundabouts have been demonstrated in Ontario and elsewhere to improve
John St., but the truck traffic is much less there.
traffic flow and reduce collision severity as compared to signalized
I seriously doubt the wisdom of putting a lot of energy intersections. The study team will be conducting detailed traffic analysis and
into the thinking about the N.W. Arterial-focus on existing will carefully consider safety and natural and social impacts to determine the
intersection. The N.W. arterial has been discussed forever, suitability of roundabouts in the study area.
and is still in the “myth” category.
The Northwest Arterial is identified as a future municipal roadway by the City
of Thunder Bay and is examined in the context of this Study. Examination of
this new roadway will include an assessment to confirm the interchange
configuration at the TBE. If you have further questions regarding the
Northwest Arterial, we suggest you contact the City of Thunder Bay.
Comment
Response
Short term safety concern John Street intersection off
ramps from expressway to John/Valley Street traffic on
this off ramp is travelling much too fast for people waiting
to turn left from Carl Avenue – too many access points to
be aware of when making this turn.
The next phase of this study will be examining interchange alternatives and
intersection requirements and other roadway crossing structure options. In
addition, operational and safety improvements (lighting, signage, etc.) along the
Expressway will be examined and presented as interim recommendations.
I see a lot of work has gone into design of various
alternatives. Why? Did the consultants just use a generic
“clover leaf” design that we see all over 80% of North
American “instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.”
Keep it simple (kiss)
If I had to choose I’d select #1 and #2 in various locations.
I think one of the most important is traffic flow, then cost.
At the PIC, the initial screening process was presented that identified critical
interchange locations including a future northwest arterial - which provides
access to the municipal arterial road network (Oliver Road, John Street, etc.).
The current suite of interchange designs as presented have been effectively
employed in Ontario or elsewhere in North America and will be evaluated
based on the operational and safety requirements of the Thunder Bay
Expressway and intersecting roadways. Consultation with the City and the
general public will be conducted to make sure the selected alternative is
appropriate from a community perspective.
Median alternatives, traffic flow and costs will be taken into consideration
during finalization of median selection and interchange alternative evaluation.
How do we know that the improvements won’t add to the
present noise level for homes adjacent to the expressway?
Rather than a computer model, monitoring equipment
should be randomly placed along the expressway.
Present noise levels make it difficult to enjoy backyards.
Alternative 3 is preferable of all the models presented.
Consider roundabouts rather than interchange with
bridges.
The roundabouts worked well when I visited Australia.
These were constructed on major 4 lane highways.
Should be evaluated.
My major concern is with the design of noise barriers.
The Study will include a review of noise levels including a preliminary
assessment of mitigation measures. The current methodology for noise
assessment (based on the Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide) is a
computer model that integrates actual field data and is highly accurate in noise
determination for outdoor living areas.
Roundabouts are being considered where appropriate at ramp terminal
intersections as they have many potential operational and safety benefits.
Roundabouts on the Expressway will be examined as part of this Study.
This Study will review noise levels associated with traffic on the Expressway.
Mitigation measures will be developed and assessed in compliance with the
Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide.
Comment
Response
General impression is good. Am looking forward to seeing
not only the next two progress sessions but a fine
conclusion that puts great emphasis on the absolute and
self-evident need for this grand separation and interchange
system to happen. I trust the direction I see URS going
and agree with the initial conclusion and recommendation.
I would hope to see more Provincial and City of Thunder
Bay Political representation at the next forums.
I would hope the only money spent going forward on this
issue addresses the concentration of a real expressway not
window dressing with lights, curve realignments and the
like that seemed to me an exercise in placating the public
and giving the illusion of Action. Like get on with this.
There is nothing more to debate. Plan, make transparent,
design it and built it. See you in a few months.
This Study is expected to be completed in the fall of 2015. At this time, the
project is not approved for construction in the 2013-2017 Northern Highways
Program.
The northwest arterial road has been in the books since
1970. It is about time that this was put into play. If this
road was originally built as per many previous studies, the
present traffic flow would not be such a big issue. Many
millions of dollars have been wasted on the expressway as
they keep on tearing it up and fixing it up. This money
could have been spent wisely in providing better road
service for the subdivision springing up.
The 22.5 m grassed median seems excessive. The 15 m
grassed median would be sufficient.
No access at Oliver and TBE needs to be reconsidered as
the hospital did not exist at its present location when the
study was done.
Arthur and TBE should be more than a diamond
interchange.
The improvements at Hodder Ave. and TBE are
wonderful. I would hope that all intersections on the TBE
would be at least as efficient as the Hodder Ave.
Improvements to the Expressway, including interim improvements (signage,
lighting, etc.), will be identified and will allow the Ministry of Transportation to
undertake improvements over a timeline that addresses operational and safety
requirements in both the long term and short term.
The Northwest Arterial is a new municipal link that is the responsibility of the
City of Thunder Bay. A preferred route was identified in the late 1980’s by the
City and property protection is currently in place. We recommend contact with
the City of Thunder Bay if you have further questions regarding the Northwest
Arterial.
This Ministry of Transportation Study will include an assessment to confirm the
interchange configuration of the Northwest Arterial at the Thunder Bay
Expressway.
The 22.m grassed median is only slightly wider than the 15m median but
provides additional safety benefits (increased separation between northbound
and southbound lanes, increased and flatter recovery area, etc.) and future
flexibility for widening.
As for interchange locations, the initial screening process has been completed to
identify critical interchange locations (Harbour Expressway, Red River Road,
future northwest arterial). A further detailed assessment of the potential
interchange locations will be completed before PIC #2. The criteria to be
Comment
Response
considered in the selection of interchange sites include:
Level of connectivity to the long-distance highway network
Level of connectivity to municipal road network
Traffic demand
Spacing between interchanges
Consistency with approved municipal roadway initiatives
Potential environmental, residential, commercial or other impacts.
Interchange locations and configuration will be evaluated for presentation at
To me it is overdue and critical that the focus / priority for
Public Information Centre #2.
the future should be the Red River Road (Hwy 102) /
Expressway Intersection. It needs to be a “non-stop”
This Study will provide the Ministry of Transportation with current traffic data
cloverleaf configuration of some kind.
and environmental assessment approval to assist in determining construction
priorities and scheduling of improvements to the Expressway.
I also believe that Alt #1 (7.5 median with concrete
barrier) would be the best by far for median widening
Alternative #1 (Tall Wall Barrier) may appear to be simple and inexpensive, but
alternatives. No more grass.
costs associated with: traffic staging during construction, installation of storm
I also have experienced many roundabouts around the
sewers, highway drainage crossfall corrections, etc. elevate the cost and
world and love them – they work!
inconvenience to the travelling public. In addition, the concrete barrier is in
But will need education of the public in Thunder Bay.
close proximity to traffic and may result in minor accident damage as vehicles
do not have a grassed median to avoid a collision.
Considering the number of years the expressway
improvements have gotten to this point and the number of
years into the future before it becomes a reality – is it
possible to have warning lights put at all the city Interim improvements (lighting, signage, advance warning, etc.) will be
/expressway intersections?
examined during this Study and documented by late 2015.
Especially since there is quite a difference in speed from
the city speed limits and the expressway (intersection)
speed limit.
I like the design of expressway, but I have concerns with
noise level in my area. We live along the section of
expressway Red River and John. There currently is no
wall or land to limit the noise that comes from the
expressway. Will a noise barrier be looked at to minimize
the noise level?
Noise level will be reviewed as part of this Study. Specifically, a noise
assessment is conducted to define noise impacts on outdoor living areas.
Mitigation measures (including noise barriers) are then developed and assessed
in compliance to the Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide.
Comment
Response
Consideration must be given to the noise factor from the
existing highway and how much more noise there will be
when / if the proposed changes are made. The need good
sound barriers that will help to cut back some of the noise
(such as are erected in Southern Ontario). The weighting
factor of noise should be much higher since people are the
main consideration here – safety does include noise
pollution factors. The northwest arterial is very much
needed to help alleviate the heavy traffic currently
existing. Trucks are a huge problem on the current
expressway and I’m not sure the NW arterial will help to
alleviate that. Some concerns also about no access over
the expressway on John St. for people on John River
Terrace and our neighbourhood. TO go to County Fair we
will have to travel to Red River Rd. and then turn left.
Please allocate funds in your budget for sound barriers
regardless of the decisions made – current sound levels are
unacceptable.
This Study will examine noise levels, including a preliminary assessment of
mitigation measures in compliance with the Ministry of Transportation Noise
Guide.
Sound barrier walls are needed, the gravel berms installed
years ago are too low. The traffic is visible and louder
now-a-days because of the higher volume. Also salt
residue appears at the rear of the house in the spring.
Security fence should be installed on the other side of the
highway to control the deer.
The Northwest Arterial is a new municipal link that is the responsibility of the
City of Thunder Bay. A preferred route was identified in the late 1980’s by the
City and property protection is currently in place. This new city link is proposed
to be a City arterial roadway and will not remove trucks from the Expressway.
We recommend contact with the City of Thunder Bay if you have further
questions regarding the Northwest Arterial.
As for interchange locations, the initial screening process has been completed
and currently identifies critical interchange locations (Harbour Expressway,
Red River Road, future northwest arterial). A further detailed assessment of the
potential interchange locations and flyover structures will be completed before
PIC #2 for the other intersections (John Street, Oliver Road, etc.)
Noise and berms will be reviewed as part of this Study. Specifically, a noise
assessment is conducted to define noise impacts on outdoor living areas.
Mitigation measures are then developed and assessed in compliance with the
Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide.
One of the primary goals of an environmental assessment is to identify potential
impacts (salt, deer movement, etc.) in order to either avoid or lessen the impacts
upon the environment. The Ministry of Transportation (MTO) is continuously
evaluating salt usage on Provincial Highways and exploring product
alternatives and application methodologies.
Equally, MTO monitors
wildlife/vehicle collisions (WVCs) and implements appropriate safety
improvements (i.e. Thunder Bay Expressway warning signs). As part of this
Study, recommendations will be developed regarding control measures for deer
movement across the Expressway.
Should be some type of sound barrier where the TBE runs This Study will review noise levels associated with traffic on the Expressway.
parallel to Hinton Ave.
Mitigation measures will be developed and assessed in compliance with the
Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide.
Comment
I fully support a divided expressway from Balsam to
Arthur St. Interchanges to be installed at all major
intersections where needed. Let’s do the job and improve
this highway. I feel it is long overdue. We are looking at
safety factors both for drivers and pedestrians.
Response
The purpose of this Study is to examine median and interchange alternatives for
the Expressway with scheduled completion in late 2015. Recommendations
from the Study will assist the Ministry of Transportation in the definition and
scheduling of improvements to the Expressway based on operational and safety
aspects.
At moment most “logging” trucks from west go down
Arthur St. to Resolute Mill which is shorter route than
going down expressway.
However since city T. Bay accepted responsibility for
Arthur St. maintenance, one assumes sometime in future
“logging” trucks could be banned from Arthur St.
This Study will review noise levels associated with traffic on the Expressway.
Then there would be a significant increase in traffic and in Mitigation measures will be developed and assessed in compliance with the
particular noise should /when “logging” trucks start using Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide.
– or are forced to use existing expressway behind
crescents such as Mohawk Cresc. Who rely on tamarack
trees to deaden sound – which they barely do at the
moment.
Please, when taking traffic , take above issue into
consideration.
If we have no choice in matter, option 3 – moving
roadway /expressway to west is our preference.
The old plan shows that there wouldn’t be an interchange Evaluation of interchange locations and designs is scheduled for the second
at Oliver Road – but there would need to be now with the phase of this Study. Alternatives will be presented at PIC #2 for public review.
hospital.
Active Transportation (pedestrians and cycling) is promoted by the City of
There should be pedestrian space at all interchanges that Thunder Bay. Pedestrian crossing of the TBE will be examined as part of this
limits the interaction of foot traffic with vehicles, and Study.
allows people to cross the TBE easily and safely.
Interim improvements (lighting, signage, signal timing, etc.) will be examined
In the interim – signal timing improvements would be as part of this Study.
hugely beneficial to mitigating congestion at interchanges.
Comment
Response
Since we live near red river road / dawson road / highway
intersection at picton ave – what affect will a ramp /clover
leaf have on our home(s) in that area? Will our street
(Picton) be closed at red river road? Will there be
excessive noise? We’ve already been exposed to hwy
noise/ traffic due to removal of several homes in our area.
We have made changes to beautify our homes / spent
money over the years – this should bring down our
residential value???!!!
The initial screening process has been completed and currently identifies critical
interchange locations (Red River Road, Harbour Expressway, future Northwest
Arterial). A further detailed assessment of the potential interchange locations
and adjacent municipal roadway intersections will be completed, including
evaluation of traffic movement, safety and impacts to adjacent properties before
PIC #2. Although alternatives will be selected to minimize impact to local
residents, some properties/houses will likely be required to allow improvements
to proceed. Property owners directly impacted by the preferred alternatives will
be contacted before the Study is completed in late 2015.
Obviously safety is a concern but we’ve lived here for
approximately 25-30 years – unknowingly that this type of
road re-construction would happen. What will happen to
our homes (they would be very close to a potential clover
leaf)?
We also experience high volume of lost transport trucks –
that make a wrong turn and have to use our street!!!
This is dangerous especially because some neighbours
have young families.
This Study will review noise levels associated with traffic on the Expressway.
Mitigation measures will be developed and assessed in compliance with the
Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide.
Safety of the travelling public, residents and pedestrians is a main component of
this Study.
Immediate solutions:
-coordinate expressway traffic lights so that if the speed
limit is followed, green lights will be encountered.
Traffic signals, signage and illumination will be taken into consideration as this
-On ramps require “merge signs”! A surprising number of Study examines interim operations and safety improvements.
drivers assume “yield” because that is what is posted on
the Harbour Expressway
-Change lights at night and on off peak hours to flashing
green for expressway and stops for cross traffic.
John St. Intersection fly over only.
Service Road between Red River and John
Interchange locations and other structure/service road alternatives will be
evaluated during the next phase of this Study and presented at PIC #2.
Make easier access to the hospital.
The Study is expected to be completed in the fall of 2015. At this time, the
project is not approved for construction in the 2013-2017 Northern Highways
Program.
Interchange at Balsam St. and Oliver Rd. should be built.
Comment
While I like the idea of making the expressway lights free.
I feel the north-west arterial should be the first step, that
way changes to John and Oliver will be more acceptable.
The other point is the close proximity of houses between
Red River Road and John. A median through that stretch
will be opposed, in Thunder Bay Fashion (NIMBY). All
of this could be lost with a change in government, as
priorities change. I hope not too much time is wasted and
these changes can go through.
The interchanges aren’t designed yet but the options
displayed all stopped or slowed traffic in a couple
locations. I don’t see roundabouts working with Thunder
Bay drivers, they can’t even handle a simple, poorly
designed intersection on Highway 61. Red River Road and
the Harbour Road require a full, 4 loop interchange. I
don’t think this arterial Rd way in the future will make up
for closing the John St. intersection.
Response
The Northwest Arterial, is a new municipal link that was identified in the late
1980’s by the City of Thunder Bay. The Ministry of Transportation Study will
examine the current interchange concept at the Expressway to determine
optimal configuration and safety. If you have additional ideas regarding the
Northwest Arterial and its timeline, we recommend you contact the City of
Thunder Bay.
For interchange locations, the initial screening process has been completed and
currently identifies critical interchange locations (Harbour Expressway, Red
River Road, future Northwest Arterial). A further detailed assessment of
potential interchange locations (John Street, Oliver Road, etc.) and flyover
structures will be completed before PIC #2.
The initial screening process has been completed to identify critical interchange
locations (Red River Road, Harbour Expressway, future northwest arterial). A
further detailed assessment of the potential interchange locations will be
completed and presented for public review at PIC #2
Roundabouts will be considered where appropriate, especially at ramp terminal
intersections.
I’m all for safety, appreciate the opportunity to provide
input.
This Study will assess noise levels associated with traffic on the Expressway.
The factors and assigned weights were used to undertake the evaluation of
Weight granted to noise factor is very low. Existing older median alternatives. The noise factor and weighting is a reflection of current
developments along Expressway need to be considered development adjacent to the Expressway, but was not considered to impart a
and a consistent policy developed … priority is people!!! significantly change to existing noise receptors (homes) in the evaluation of
Not only transports, bikes, etc. Attitudes towards existing median alternatives that could be accommodated within the current Expressway
residents bordering the expressway need to be toned lands. Mitigation measures will be developed and assessed in compliance with
down… most of us have persevered “noise” for years and the Ministry of Transportation Noise Guide.
have paid our fair share of tax to City / Provincial coffers
for the last 40 years. It is time to be a little more “liberal”
in your plans and implementation.
Comment
Response
Increase speed to 100 km/h at least
Separate lanes – wider median
Improve off ramp merge lanes to allow merge presently
there is no “merge”
Interchange at Oliver – hospital and university
Try to provide bicycle route for City and cross Canada
cyclists.
Improve harbour expressway to 61S now – should be two
lanes for turning.
Improve sight line travelling south to Oliver Road or add
warning lights NOW.
Interchange locations, ramp functions, other improvements (Harbour
Expressway and sight lines) and Active Transportation (cycling) have been
noted. We thank you for your support of the 22.5 m grassed median.
Traffic operations, capacity, safety, construction impacts and emergency access
(hospital) will all be examined as part of this Study. Several of your points will
be considered during the investigation of interim improvements (signage,
lighting, etc.).
Pedestrian and cycling will be considered throughout the Study in keeping with
the Provincial and City strategies for Active Transportation.
The initial screening process has been completed to identify critical interchange
-interchange at Oliver Road essential due to hospital and locations (Red River Road, Harbour Expressway, future Northwest Arterial). A
university
further detailed assessment of the potential interchange locations will be
-would question need for interchange at Arthur – present completed, including Oliver Road. The Arthur Street intersection will be
intersection works well – if other access to Parkdale was examined as to functionality, traffic movement and safety. The Parkdale
developed to expressway or harbour expressway.
community/subdivision access will be evaluation based on traffic movement,
safety and other localized constraints (interchange spacing, Thunder Bay
Airport, etc.).
Since I am land owner who will be affected by type and
design of the interchange, I wish to be consulted before a
formal decision is made.
Recommendations:
If an interchange is built along Northwest Arterial Road
there should be access from Belrose to the interchange.
When expressway is under construction a “sleeve” for
future water and sewer needs should be constructed under
the expressway
A larger culvert than presently exists should be built for
runoff water from Storm Creek. Presently beavers build
dams which need to be destroyed in order that water
doesn’t run onto expressway.
Property owners directly impacted by the preferred alternatives will be
contacted before the Study is completed in late 2015.
The Northwest Arterial is a City of Thunder Bay initiative and your questions
regarding potential access for Belrose Road should be explored with the City
Engineering Department.
This Preliminary Design Study is investigating median and interchange location
alternatives for the Thunder Bay Expressway. Future requirements (i.e.
‘sleeves’) for various utilities, including sewer and water, will be explored with
the appropriate service providers as the Study progresses.
Hydrology and drainage will be investigated as part of this Study, including
Storm Creek.
Noise levels associated with traffic on the Expressway and mitigation measures
will be developed and assessed in compliance with the Ministry of
Comment
Response
Sound walls should be built along Expressway – even
where there is vacant land. This is for future use.
Work co-operatively with City Planning dept. to decide
where roads will go, so that land owners could
recommend types of zoning which is best suitable to the
area and the land owners in the Official Plan.
Transportation Noise Guide.
City representatives actively participate on this Study and Mayor and Council
are provided updates on a regular basis. Owners contemplating land
developments should directly discuss Official Plan and Zoning matters with the
City Planning Department.
I was unable to attend the open house on July 22, but I did
have a few comments. I'm very much in favour of the
proposed twinning of the expressway through Thunder
bay and the implementation of interchanges.
However there is one very major stipulation. It is already
difficult for pedestrians and cyclists to cross the
expressway. Reconstruction with interchanges has the
potential to make this either much better and safer or Safety of both vehicles and pedestrians is important. Active Transportation will
much worse and more dangerous.
be considered throughout the remainder of this study and the City of Thunder
Bay will be consulted about trails, cycling routes and pedestrian crossings.
At each interchange consideration should be made for
both current AND future crossings for pedestrians and
cyclists. Specifically, sidewalks with protection from
traffic and _protected_ bike lanes (grade separation like
second sidewalks, ontario tall walls or curbs between car
traffic and bicycle traffic).
I would be very interested in participating in further
consultation regarding implementation of pedestrian and
bicycle-friendly design for the new expressway as I
represent a sizeable group of bicycle and pedestrian
advocates in the Thunder bay area and am a campaign
organizer behind The Memorial Link.
I participated in the Public Information Center #1 and
have the following comments:
The study is about automobile traffic.
For better
This Study is evaluating not only the vehicular elements of the
Expressway, but also the natural environment, social/community aspects
(pedestrians and cyclists) of Thunder Bay and capital and maintenance
Comment
liveability and city enjoyment, we must not forget that
roads serve humans; not the other way around. To that
effect, pedestrian and cycling traffics have to be accounted
for. Also, the effect of the increased footprint of the
proposed roadway infrastructure have to be validated,
minimized and pushed as far as possible in the future. The
latter issue would also help minimizing cost if only to
reduce increased maintenance needs and minimize capital
immobilizations.
Response
costs during the generation of the interim improvements and
Recommended Plan.
the
1) I noticed that the only traffic increase to the 2030
horizon is for the stretch from Arthur to Oliver road. I
also noticed that the projection is a linear extrapolation
based on data from the years 2000 - 2014. I posit that the
data might be skewed towards a continuous increase in
traffic as opposed to a plateauing due to the fact that the
new hospital opened in 2004. This major pole of
attraction must have had a significant effect on traffic
which could be plateauing by now. Are the traffic studies
showing such a peak effect or is traffic really growing?
1. Prior to the PIC, correlated data was only available for the Arthur to Oliver
Road section. We are currently assembling data (with a 2031 traffic
horizon) in order to understand the effects on traffic of recent highway
improvements and land use changes.
2) The traffic analyses show some congestion at various
intersections, including on the stretch from Arthur to
Oliver which I use every day. I personally observe that
such congestion does occur but tends to be of very short
duration, around the morning and evening rush hours.
Having lived in large conurbations, I find that the
congested period is quite short in Thunder Bay. Even
though the delays we are experiencing during peak traffic
time may clock at levels C, D or E of the scale, I find that
slightly adjusting my schedule (5-10 minutes) allows me
to avoid the clogging altogether. So, do the traffic studies
show for how long do we observe such congestion during
the day? One hour, 2 hours maybe? Even if we are
clocking an “E”, does the duration of that congestion
really necessitates a new interchange? Would that
2. The ultimate vision for the Thunder Bay Expressway is for a median
divided highway with grade separated interchanges. When reviewing the
existing conditions and potential locations for improvements, the levels of
traffic are reviewed based on the peak periods of travel (AM and PM peak
periods). These periods are primarily when travelers will experience the
most delay and congestion. The traffic analysis shows that the peak hours
of traffic are from 7:00 to 10:00 am and from 4:00 to 7:00 pm. Turning
movements at Arthur Street continues to display a large turning movement
volume.
Comment
Response
interchange be required if the same situation were to
happen in a city where traffic density is more even
throughout the day? The traffic density on a 24 hour
period would be an interesting indicator to compare
congestion around the clock to other urban settings.
3) A major employer on the south side split its morning
work shifts in 2012. This means that several hundreds of
people started at 6 AM (and now 7 AM) rather than the
customary 8 AM. This change would have occurred only
on the later traffic studies (2012-2014) and might have
been discounted. It would be interesting to see if this
change had an effect on the traffic (especially at Arthur
Street) and if the traffic trend kept flatter since then.
3. The traffic analysis has been completed and included 2012 data, accounting
for any shift in traffic that occurred in 2012.
4) Thunder Bay is a smaller center with few major
employers which is an advantage for city planners as
major players know each other and can be reached
relatively easily. Coupled with No 3 above, it might be
possible to convince some major players to alter their
business hours so as to spread automobile traffic over a
larger time window. Overall tax incentives could also be
used such as bus subsidies or tax breaks for offsetting
shifts.
4. Shifts in employer operations and business hours are determined internally
and implemented based on Business Plans. These changes are corporate
decisions that are not within the realm of this Study.
5) If congestion increases to a certain point, car drivers
will adjust their pattern and an increasing trend might
instead remain at the observed level i.e. saturate. This
could have the effect of postponing or maybe even
negating the need for increased interchanges.
5. The objective of this Study is to determine future requirements and safety
enhancements for the Thunder Bay Expressway as it relates to predicted
traffic increases to the horizon year. As congestion increases on the
Expressway, driver frustration and accident potential increases. Some
drivers will adjust by utilizing other corridors for commuting, placing an
additional
burden
on
these
roadway,
warranting
further
improvements/upgrades to deal with driver frustration and safety issues.
6. The City of Thunder Bay has tools (Official Plans, zoning bylaws, etc.) to
assist in planning for the future, including densification, urban renewal and
orderly suburban growth. Your concepts are interesting and should be
shared with City Planners and Council.
6) Moving back to the city core appears quite appealing
to many, even in Thunder Bay. The dynamism of the Bay
Street area is proof of that. Favouring city densification
through tax incentives or otherwise could help mitigating
traffic growth. It would also help slowing urban sprawl, a
Comment
Response
notoriously costly alternative to city living.
I understand that the study goals were to look at
automobile traffic management from the infrastructure
point of view. However, I believe that there are ways of
achieving good automobile flow while optimizing land
and monetary resources use. Delaying the need for major
road works would be interesting from a financial point of
view. Defining a global strategy englobing the municipal
and provincial levels could help achieve this goal, freeing
funds for other infrastructure work.
This Study is scheduled for completion in the fall of 2015 and will assist the
Ministry of Transportation in determining the need and schedule for
improvements to the Expressway. At this time, the project is not approved for
construction in the 2013-2017 Northern Highways Program.
I attended both the Thunder Bay city council meeting on
July 21st and the public information centre (PIC) at the
Thunder Bay Boys & Girls Club on July 22nd.
I appreciated all the provided information. I would ask
you to consider more carefully for future PICs the need for
pedestrian and alternative forms of traffic metrics.
When queried by city council it appeared that no
appreciable thought had been given to these issues. At the
PIC the staff was more prepared with the answer “that this
would come further along in the process with consultation
and most likely financial participation by the local
municipality”. I understand this is the beginning of a long
process but I feel strongly that these issues need to be
considered early on.
Leading to the first PIC, the presentation to Mayor and Council was to inform
regarding Median Alternatives and the initial determination of interchange
locations. Pedestrian safety in crossing the Expressway is an important and
standard factor that is examined during the development of interchange
configurations. This interchange configuration development is the next phase
of the Study and Active Transportation and associated safety will be
investigated.
I am particularly concerned for both the Red River and
Arthur St intersections as these are frequently used by
pedestrians and cyclists to reach commercial properties
and residential neighbourhoods. The provided slide
material only encompassed vehicular data and did not
incorporate pedestrian traffic.
The initial screening for interchange locations was completed for presentation at
PIC #1. Phase 2 of interchange development is intended to examine the other
intersections as more data is assembled and develop interchange configuration
for presentation at PIC #2. The Red River Road and Arthur Street intersections
will be examined further in regards to vehicle and pedestrian requirements.
Comment
Response
Also, there does not appear to be any mention of the paved
recreational trails that exist under the expressway and how
these might be affected. I was encouraged to see the slide
“Alternatives to the Undertaking”. Perhaps these
opportunities could be considered with the municipality as
compliments instead. We have some fantastic paved
recreational trails in Thunder Bay and perhaps linking
many of our existing trails like Centennial, McVicar
Creek, McIntyre River, Northwood Playfield and the
Neebing River would be possible along this same
corridor. The idea probably seems ambitious or farfetched but the benefits of connecting so many
recreational trails would be positive to the community and
this project.
Active Transportation will be considered throughout the study and the City will
be consulted on future policy direction. The recreational trail system is a
component of the cultural values of Thunder Bay and will be examined in
consultation with the City of Thunder Bay.
As you have asked for input my suggestion is to include Pedestrian and cycling activity and community connectivity are importance
pedestrian and other forms of traffic in your future values and will be proactively examined during the development of interchange
collection and representation of intersection metrics. As and other structure designs that crossing the Expressway.
there have been incidents and fatalities with pedestrian
traffic at expressway intersections in Thunder Bay it is
important to consider these issues early on and incorporate
them when discussing safety. I also suggest that your
team consider compliments with the municipality to
encourage
an
active
and
connected
community. Alternatives always strike me as way to
avoid doing something, but compliments are opportunities
to enhance or build on an existing idea, and perhaps they
can assist in encouraging the funding of a project.
Thank you for providing a forum and a method for
feedback.
I hope that your design will incorporate multiple modes of
Multiple modes of transportation is is part of Active Transportation
transportation to ensure our community continues to grow
considerations under this Study. The City of Thunder Bay will be consulted
while providing alternative options to driving.
about trails, cycling routes and pedestrian crossing of the Expressway.
Comment
Response
I live in the northern part of the city and commute to the
Arthur St area via the Expressway daily (Balsam to Arthur
exit). I have been doing this for several years. I have
noticed a problem with the synchronization of the lights
which causes a mass amount of congestion, as a line up of
cars forms at red lights, which collectively takes so much
time to pull away, then it is near impossible to use the
expressway without stopping at every red light.
I drive both a motorcycle and pick up truck so have tried
several different levels of acceleration and speeds. Only As part of this Study, interim improvements such as illumination, signage,
driving 70km/h makes a difference as one can accelerate signal timing, etc. will be examined.
the right time approaching a light about to change. This is
something I have read about in letters to the editor as well
as comment sections on local news websites, so it is not
just myself.
In reading the city website
(http://www.thunderbay.ca/Living/Getting_Around/Traffi
c_Signals_and_Pedestrian_Crossings.htm)
they state that synchronization is having all the lights
change at the same time, rather than in sequence according
to the typical (or authorized speed) of vehicles, as I would
understand it. I personally have not experiences this
problem elsewhere in Canada, so assume it can be solved.
Is this project something that can address this issue?
First of all, thank you for undertaking this process. I do
not doubt that you will receive many opinions but I
believe in the value of such processes.
I simply wanted to underscore the importance of the
complete streets concept. Cars are without a doubt an
incredibly convenient tool but they are not the only way of
Comment
moving goods and people. Making the highway a four
lane divided highway is an opportunity to also consider
park and rides or even better, multimodal transportation
hubs that accommodate bike lockers and transit. There is
also a lot of attention placed on cross country cyclists,
many of which avoid Ontario by passing by the Southern
Side of Lake Superior. Quebec seems to have taken the
lead on this in Canada. To wrap up this point, I think the
Environment Commissioner of Ontario's latest report
pointing to the challenges associated with transportation
emissions. More than a third of Thunder Bay's emissions
are transportation related and we cannot tackle these
without thinking about transforming our approach to
infrastructure.
The other aspect I wanted to bring up is William's Bog. If
you have a chance, go walk there this week to see some
amazing orchids, pitcher plants and sundews. It's an
amazing place and some people are expressing concern
that the stormwater system on the highway is draining
some of it's moisture.
Response
Active transportation (as administered by the City of Thunder Bay) will be
considered throughout the remainder of this study and the City will be consulted
about trails, cycling routes and pedestrian crossings. Additionally, the Ontario
Cycling Strategy (#CycleON) will guide the Study Team on bicycle matters
related to the Thunder Bay Expressway.
The Williams Bog and its Provincial Significant have been noted by both the
Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry and the Lakehead Region
Conservation Authority. Opportunities to maintain the integrity of this natural
feature are part of this Study and the environmental assessment process for
Provincial Highway Projects.
Good luck with the process ahead,
In your review, please consider eliminating the lights on
the expressway and build overpasses over each of Balsam
St., Red River Rd, John St., Oliver Road, Arthur St and
Neebing Ave.
The off ramps could be straight off ramp ways like the
ones that exist on the 401 Eastbound in Whitby at Salem
Rd., with lights that control left hand turns to get on the
expressway after the vehicle passes under the expressway.
Right hand turns onto the expressway can be handled with
all existing on ramps
We do not need big clover-leaf on and off ramps.
Traffic on each of the crossroads could still be controlled
The purpose of an interchange is to enhance safety and provide opportunities
for traffic to merge onto the Expressway from intersecting roadways (Red River
Road, Harbour Expressway, etc.). This separation of traffic removes the
requirement to provide traffic signals on the expressway.
A detailed
assessment of the potential interchange locations and configurations will be
completed before PIC #2, taking into consideration vehicle and pedestrian
movement and safety.
Traffic signals or roundabouts are being evaluated where appropriate at ramp
terminal intersections as they have many potential operational and safety
Comment
Response
by lights for turns and pedestrian crossings, but through benefits including: higher capacity for the same number of lanes, shorter delays
traffic on the expressway could keep moving without for traffic movement and a reduction in the occurrence and severity of collisions
lights and vehicles and pedestrians that need to cross the due to speed reductions.
expressway, could do so more efficiently and safely.
This is the TransCanada highway, let's treat it like it
should be. Thank you,
With a major project such as this, it is time for Thunder
Bay to look to the future and incorporate healthy living
components into the design. We have many great Health communities is part of Active Transportation that is being considered
recreational trails but we lack safe ways to move across during this Study with input from the City about trails, cycling routes and
the city and use walking and/or biking as a mode of pedestrian crossing of the Expressway
transportation.
Please remember that cities shouldn't be planned for carsthey should be planned for people.
In examining the Thunder Bay expressway it is imperative Pedestrian and cyclist safety is important and part of Active Transportation
to consider pedestrians and cyclists. Very many people consideration. City of Thunder Bay input about trails, cycling routes and
cross by bicycle and foot at Red River Road, for example. pedestrian crossing of the Expressway will form part of this Study.
I am concerned about anything that will make cars think Illumination, signage, posted speed and other factors associated with the
they can go faster. Lower speed limits on the current operation of the Expressway will be explored as potential interim improvements
highway would do a lot to improve safety. The last think under this Study.
we need is for the corridor to end up feeling like it's a
superhighway that's not part of the city – a northern Hwy
401.
I hope that your design will incorporate multiple modes of
Multiple modes of transportation is is part of Active Transportation
transportation to ensure our community continues to grow
considerations under this Study. The City of Thunder Bay will be consulted
while providing alternative options to driving.
about trails, cycling routes and pedestrian crossing of the Expressway.
That project has gone exactly as you laid out and is a
pleasure to drive on. I’m looking forward to the
completion of the entire job and many years of driving.
Comment
Response
My interest now lies in getting some information on the
project behind my home in town located on Hinton Ave All the display material is available on the Project Website under the Public
and backing onto the expressway. I didn’t hear about the Information Centres tab:
public information session until seeing it in the paper. Not
sure how I missed but it happens. I had a look at the http://thunderbayexpressway.ca/consultation-pic.html
website listed and noted your name. Thought I
would pick your brain very quickly if that is ok.
Slide 19 and 20 show the median alternatives under review and the initial
I note that part of the project may or will include adding a median alternative evaluation. As shown on the typical median alternatives
median between the travelled sections of roadway. I think drawing on slide 19, the existing right of way is wider on the westerly side of
this is a good idea safety wise. Are you able to tell me the TBE. As a result, the preliminary assessment has determined that the
whether or not the current road bed will be moved closer majority of widening work would be to the west under Alternative #3
to the abutting properties on Hinton Ave in order to (Preferred).
accommodate this or will the road be moved to toward the The Study will include a full review of lighting once a Preferred Plan for a new
County Park side of the right of way?
four-lane divided TBE with interchanges is identified.
I am also interested in the lighting that may or may not be
installed as part of the project.
If you can provide information, or direct me to the
location where I can find this info myself, it would be
much appreciated.
To the MTO planners responsible for this important
project and to the City of Thunder Bay:
The City of Thunder Bay has made great strides of late in
approaching the challenge of improving our urban
environment through the support of active transportation
both through the development of innovative and
supportive policy and through the implementation of
progressive urban design guidelines. This important
highway safety project represents a significant opportunity
to enhance these efforts by embracing the importance of
connectivity at all levels and modes of transportation and
not just for the automobile.
Active transportation (as administered by the City of Thunder Bay) is
recognized as an important aspect of the Thunder Bay social environment and
will be considered throughout the remainder of this study. The City is an
important partner in the Expressway Study and will be consulted about trails,
cycling routes and pedestrian crossing of the Expressway.
Comment
I encourage the planners and designers of this project to
partner with the City of Thunder Bay in embracing active
transportation opportunities along and across the proposed
divided highway corridor through the City of Thunder
Bay so that neighborhood connections are strengthened
and not obstructed. I encourage you to also consider the
urban design function and opportunities represented by
major interchanges for all modes of transportation so that
these nodes can become positive and meaningful
components of the public spaces of our city.
I fear that if design consideration is not taken down to this
level of detail and granularity this important corridor will
become a significant barrier to the continued positive
development of the urban environment of our city. It will
become a divisive physical obstacle to the free and
positive movement of people at a pedestrian and cyclist
scale and it will further segregate existing neighborhoods.
This project offers the City and the Ministry a significant
opportunity to reflect leading edge thinking approaches to
the conception and design of urban transportation
corridors. There are many examples the world over of
other jurisdictions that have successfully recognized such
opportunities. These examples should be looked to for the
lessons they can offer Thunder Bay.
Response