Next Generation Adaptive Optics (NGAO) Preliminary Design Phase Update Presenters: Richard Ellis, Michael Liu, Mark Morris, Tommaso Treu & Peter Wizinowich With contributions from the NGAO Science Advisory Team & NGAO Design Team Keck Strategic Planning Meeting September 18, 2009 Presentation Sequence • NGAO Overview (Wizinowich) – Project Goals, Status, Plans & Technical Overview • NGAO Science – – – – Overview (Max) Extragalactic Science (Ellis) High Contrast Science (Liu) Dark Matter Substructure Science Case (Treu) • NGAO Science Advisory Team (Morris) – – – – NSAT role Complementarity with other Facilities (especially TMT) NSAT assessment Open issues & community input Discussion 2 NGAO Overview Peter Wizinowich Sean Adkins, Richard Dekany, Don Gavel, Claire Max + NGAO Team NGAO Science Goals & Capabilities Key Science Goals Understanding the Formation and Evolution of Today’s Galaxies Measuring Dark Matter in our Galaxy and Beyond Testing the Theory of General Relativity in the Galactic Center Understanding the Formation of Planetary Systems around Nearby Stars Exploring the Origins of Our Solar System Key New Science Capabilities Near Diffraction-Limited in Near-IR (K-Strehl ~80%) AO correction at Red Wavelengths (0.65-1.0 m) Increased Sky Coverage Improved Angular Resolution, Sensitivity and Contrast Improved Photometric and Astrometric Accuracy Imaging and Integral Field Spectroscopy 4 How is NGAO different from Keck’s AO today? 5 NGAO Project Milestones & Funding • All of the following successfully completed: – – – – Jun/06. Apr/08. Nov/08. Mar/09. Proposal submitted System Design Review TMT AO cost comparison Build-to-cost concept review • Preliminary Design Review planned for Apr/10 • TSIP provided $2M for the preliminary design • NSF-MRI (Aug/09) provided $1.4M for K2 center launch • ATI (Nov/08), MRI-R2 (Aug/09) & TSIP (Sep/09) proposals submitted for NGAO related activities • Private funding being sought 6 NGAO System Design Review (April/08) Very Experienced Review Committee: • Brent Ellerbroek & Gary Sanders (TMT) • Bob Fugate (NMT) & Norbert Hubin (ESO) • Andrea Ghez (UCLA) & Nick Scoville (Caltech) • • • “The review panel believes that Keck Observatory has assembled an NGAO team with the necessary past experience … needed to develop the NGAO facility for Keck. It is a sound, though aggressive, strategy to be among the first observatories to develop and depend on advanced LGS AO systems as a means to maintain Keck’s leadership in ground-based observational astronomy for the immediate future.“ “The panel also believes that NGAO is an important pathfinder for the 2nd generation of AO based instruments for future ELT’s” “The NGAO Science cases are mature, well developed and provide high confidence that the science … will be unique within the current landscape.” 7 NGAO Build-to-Cost Review (March/09) Very Experienced Review Committee: • Brent Ellerbroek (TMT) • Michael Liu (U. Hawaii) • Jerry Nelson (TMT, UCSC) • • • Cost cap with instruments & contingency: $60M then-year dollars "The Committee strongly congratulates the NGAO team for a concise, convincing presentation which demonstrates that the above criteria for further development of the system have been very effectively met. We recommend that the project is now ready to proceed with the Preliminary Design Phase to continue the development of the updated system concept, with no further changes in overall scope or basic architecture either necessary or desirable.“ “We are unable to identify any other design change to bring NGAO within the cost cap with such a modest impact upon overall scientific capability.” 8 Revised Cost Estimate $54M in FY09 dollars $60M in then-year dollars Includes science instrument & contingency NGAO System System Design Preliminary Design Detailed Design Full Scale Development Delivery & Commissioning Contingency (24%) NGAO Total = IFS Design Imager and IFS Instrument Contingency (10/30%) NGAO Instrument Total = Overall Total = Actuals ($k) Plan (Then-Year $k) FY07 FY08 FY09 FY10 FY11 FY12 FY13 739 495 214 1240 1492 1600 5500 978 400 500 7415 8715 739 739 709 709 1240 51 123 17 192 1432 466 1741 3014 3958 6000 10134 11729 229 78 443 4284 4264 486 67 1309 1279 146 739 5670 5544 632 4697 11670 15678 12361 FY14 FY15 5262 1764 3119 10145 1825 611 2436 12 4 15 10161 0 2436 Total 1234 2946 8078 22293 3589 8951 47090 358 9613 2822 12793 59883 9 Major NGAO Milestones Year Month NGAO Project Milestone 2006 June NGAO Proposal to SSC - complete 2006 Oct. System Design Start - complete 2008 April System Design Review - complete 2009 March Build-to-Cost Review - complete 2009 Dec. Laser Preliminary Design Reviews 2010 April Preliminary Design Review 2011 April Laser Final Design Review 2011 Sept. Keck II Center Launch Telescope Operational 2012 April Detailed Design Review 2013 Oct. Pre-Lab I&T Readiness Review 2013 April Pre-Ship Readiness Review 2014 July NGS AO First Light 2014 Sept. LGS AO First Light 2014 Oct. 15A Shared-Risk Science Availability Review 2015 Feb. Operational Readiness Review 10 NGAO System Architecture Key Features: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. Fixed narrow field laser tomography AO corrected NIR TT sensors Cooled AO enclosure Cascaded relay Combined imager/IFU instrument 11 NGAO Imaging Capability • Broadband – z, Y, J, H, K (0.818 to 2.4 µm) – photometric filters for each band plus narrowband filters similar to NIRC2 • Plate scale – 1 or more plate scales selected to optimally sample the diffraction limit, e.g. (/2D), 8.4 mas at 0.818 µm – Finer sampling may be important for photometry, astrometry – Science requirement for ≥ 20" diameter FOV @z band cut-off (0.818 m) Sampling Pixel scale Detector size 2048 x 2048 (H2RG) 4096 x 4096 (H4RG) /2D(mas) /3D(mas) 8.4 5.6 FOV (") 17.3 11.5 34.6 23.0 – Multiple plate scales increase cost and may limit performance • • • Simple coronagraph Throughput ≥ 60% over full wavelength range Sky background limited performance 12 NGAO IFS Capability • Narrowband – z, Y, J, H, K (0.818 to 2.4 µm) – ~5% band pass per filter, number as required to cover each wave band • Spectroscopy – R ~4,000 – High efficiency e.g. multiple gratings working in a single order • Spatial sampling (3 scales maximum) – 10 mas e.g. (/2D) at 1 µm – 50 to 75 mas, selected to match 50% ensquared energy of NGAO – Intermediate scale (20 or 35 mas) to balance FOV/sensitivity trade off • FOV on axis – 4" x 4" at 50 mas sampling – possible rectangular FOV (1" x 3") at a smaller spatial sampling • Throughput ≥ 40% over full wavelength range • Detector limited performance 13 Early Science Return from NGAO • NGAO laser launch telescope – NSF-MRI (Aug/09) provided $1.4M to procure & implement a center launch telescope on K2 • NGAO Laser – Collaborating with ESO, AURA, GMT, TMT to fund & share the results of preliminary designs (PDRs by Dec/09) from 2 vendors. • 2x250k Euros from ESO; $300k from WMKO using NSF/AURA funds – MRI-R2 proposal submitted in Aug/09 to procure & implement the 1st NGAO laser on K2. Collaboration with TMT & ESO. • PSF calibration – WMKO obtained a MASS/DIMM from TMT that is being implemented in Sept/09 by CFHT/UH as a Mauna Kea facility. • Currently determining options for ATI proposal in Nov/09 14 Keck II Center Launch + New Laser Predicted Performance for T Dwarf Binary Case Relative Positional Error Relative Positional Error (mas) 2.50 Current K2 LGS AO + Center Projection 2.00 + New Laser 1.50 Factor of 2x improvement 6x in dynamical mass determination 1.00 0.50 0.00 0.05 0.1 0.15 0.2 0.25 0.3 0.35 Strehl Ratio (K-band) Relative Magnitude Error Relative Error (delta mag) 0.07 0.06 Current K2 LGS AO 0.05 + Center Projection + New Laser 0.04 R = 16.2 NGS 31” off-axis 50 zenith angle 0.03 0.02 1% photometry 0.01 0.00 0.05 15 0.1 0.15 0.2 0.25 Strehl Ratio (K-band) 0.3 0.35 K2 NGAO Laser 1 K2 NGAO + Camera Jan-15 K2 Center Launch Jan-14 Jan-13 Jan-12 Jan-11 K1 LGS + OSIRIS + Interferometer K1&2 WFC Upgrade K2 OSIRIS K2 LGS 1 Jan-10 Jan-09 Jan-08 Jan-07 Jan-06 Jan-05 Jan-04 Jan-03 K2 NIRC2 K1&2 NGS Interferometer Jan-02 K2 NGS K2 NIRSPAO 0 Jan-01 Jan-00 Jan-99 Major Keck AO Science Capability Milestones Keck AO First TAC-allocated Science Milestones Future Date 16 NGAO Science C. Max, E. McGrath, J. Crepp A. Barth, D. Law 17 We categorized science cases into 2 classes 1. Key Science Drivers: – These push the limits of AO system, instrument, and telescope performance. Determine the most difficult performance requirements. 2. Science Drivers: – These are less technically demanding but still place important requirements on available observing modes, instruments, and PSF knowledge. 18 “Key Science Drivers” (in inverse order of distance) 1. High-redshift galaxies 2. Black hole masses in nearby AGNs 3. General Relativity at the Galactic Center 4. Planets around low-mass stars 5. Asteroid companions These push limits of AO system, instrument, and telescope. Determine the most difficult performance requirements. 19 “Science Drivers” (in inverse order of distance) 1. Gravitationally lensed galaxies 2. QSO host galaxies 3. Resolved stellar populations in crowded fields 4. Astrometry science (variety of cases) 5. Debris Disks and Young Stellar Objects 6. Giant Planets and their moons 7. Asteroid size, shape, composition These are less technically demanding but still place important requirements on observing modes, instruments, and PSF knowledge. 20 Science Topics • Capabilities for spectroscopy and imaging of high-redshift galaxies • Black hole mass measurements • New developments in planet detection • Dark matter substructure 21 High Redshift Galaxies & Blackhole Masses Richard Ellis Galaxies at the Period of Peak Star Formation 0.5 < z < 2.5 • NGAO will have higher spatial resolution than JWST, providing more detailed information on kpc and sub-kpc scales. • Internal kinematics and structure key to understanding details of galaxy assembly and evolution. – e.g., merger driven starbursts vs. gravitational instabilities/cold accretion SNR using H • Exploring utility of other lines for z > 2.5 23 Challenge: Redshifts 5 and (Much) Higher • WFC3 finds galaxies at z ~ 7 - 8 (!) – Small: many < 0.2 arc sec – VERY FAINT J(AB) = 26 - 29 • Current Keck AO capabilities: – – – – • H(Vega) = 25 in 1 hr (pt source) H(AB) ~ 26.4 in 1 hr (pt source) AO has big advantage for pt sources But don’t know galaxy size yet (how much smaller than 0.2” are they?) With NGAO: – Really compact galaxies at z ~ 7-8 may be imaged in 1 night • A fascinating challenge for following up survey discoveries – Will evaluate NGAO capabilities over next 6 months - let us know if you are interested in helping out! Redshift 7 - 8 galaxies with WFC3 Oesch et al. 2009, Bouwens et al. 2009 (see also McClure et al. and Bunker et al. 2009) 24 Cooled AO system crucial for K-band performance • Target goal: AO to contribute at most 30% (sky + tel) background • Spectra of “typical” z~2.6 galaxies in reasonable observing times ~ 3 hours • Simulations in collaboration with TMT IRIS science team are beginning, using “cloned” nearby galaxies and latest NGAO designs 25 Black hole masses in nearby galaxies • Minimum detectable BH mass scales as (distance X ang res)2 • NGAO will detect lower mass BHs to farther distances than JWST. – At distance of Virgo Cluster (17.6 Mpc): – K band: 2 x 107 Msun BH – Ca Triplet: 3 x 106 Msun • To date, only a handful of similar mass BHs have been detected kinematically. • NGAO using Ca II triplet is comparable with TMT in K band (CO bandhead). Minimum BH mass detectable vs. distance, assuming local M- relation and 2 diffraction ltd. resolution elements across rgrav 26 Extrasolar Planet Studies with NGAO Michael Liu 27 ? Marois et al 2008 28 Direct imaging of exoplanets: Why? Probe >5 AU region • planet frequency • mass function: dN/dM • orbit distribution: dN/da, dN/de Target stars not suitable for RV • active, low-mass, and/or v.young Planet formation theories (architectures) 29 Direct imaging of exoplanets: Why? Probe >5 AU region • planet frequency • mass function: dN/dM • orbit distribution: dN/da, dN/de Target stars not suitable for RV • active, low-mass, and/or v.young Planet formation theories (architectures) Measure physical properties • colors = atmospheres • Teff , Lbol = evolution • spectroscopy = composition Exoplanetary physics (processes) 30 NGAO enables high contrast studies for a broad range of science programs. Keck/NG AO (LGS) Gemini/GPI, VLT/SPHER E (NGS) AO system Extreme AO (GPI, SPHERE) v.bright stars only Keck NGAO many targets Contrast 107–108 105–106 31 NGAO: Planet detection sensitivity • Large number of compelling science targets that are too optically faint for ExAO (R<~9 mag), but suitable for NGAO. • NGAO will be a unique means to test planet formation models over a wide range of stellar host masses & ages. 32 NGAO enables high contrast studies for a broad range of science programs. ~25 MJup 1. Direct imaging of planets around VLM stars and brown dwarfs (e.g. WISE). ~5 MJup Chauvin et al (2005): VLT AO (IR WFS) 33 NGAO enables high contrast studies for a broad range of science programs. DH Tau B GQ Lup B ~40 MJ, 330 AU ~20 MJ, 100 AU 1. Direct imaging of planets around VLM stars and brown dwarfs (e.g. WISE). 2. Search for forming planets in situ around the youngest (~1 Myr) stars. Itoh et al 2004 Neuhauser et al 2005 34 NGAO enables high contrast studies for a broad range of science programs. Keck NGS: H-band 1. Direct imaging of planets around VLM stars and brown dwarfs (e.g. WISE). 2. Search for forming planets in situ around the youngest (~1 Myr) stars. 3. Identify low-mass planets (e.g. Neptune) via dyn signatures in debris disks. 35 NGAO enables high contrast studies for a broad range of science programs. Keck NGS: H-band Undetectable Neptune with 1:1 resonant dust ring 1. Direct imaging of planets around VLM stars and brown dwarfs (e.g. WISE). 2. Search for forming planets in situ around the youngest (~1 Myr) stars. Solar system model 3. Identify low-mass planets (e.g. Neptune) via dyn signatures in debris disks. High Strehl NGAO Keck AO today 36 Testing models of exoplanet evolution • Interpreting the emitted light of exoplanets into physical quantities (Teff, Mass) requires theoretical models of their luminosity evolution. • Models can best be tested using dyn masses of brown dwarf binaries from NGAO astrometry. Dupuy, Liu & Ireland 2009 58 ± 2 MJup 37 Dark Matter Substructure and NGAO Tommaso Treu “Missing satellites”: theory Cluster Galaxy Kravtsov 2009 39 “Missing satellites”: observations Cluster Galaxy Kravtsov 2009 40 Milky Way Satellites Kravtsov 2009 Strigari et al. 2007 41 Milky Way satellites: big questions • How massive are they? – (Keck is working on it!) • Are the excess satellites predicted by theory non-existent or just dark? – Enter gravitational lensing 42 “Missing satellites” and strong lensing • Strong lensing can detect satellites based solely on their mass at virtually any redshift! • Satellites are detected as “anomalies” in the gravitational potential ψ and its derivatives – ψ’’ = magnification anomalies – ψ’ = astrometric anomalies – ψ = time delay anomalies – Natural scale is milliarcseconds 43 Flux ratio anomalies and adaptive optics Without satellites A+C=B Anomaly predicted satellite before Keck LGSAO discovered Satellite G2 We now know MASS and LUMINOSITY! McKean et al. 2007 44 Astrometric anomalies and adaptive optics Astrometric perturbations of order 10 mas are expected based on simulations Chen et al. 2007 45 Gravitational mass imaging: idea Mass substructure distorts extended lensed sources 46 Gravitational mass imaging: simulations Simulated Data 5 108 Msun Detectable with HST Potential Model Surface mass density Vegetti & Koopmans 2009 47 Gravitational mass imaging with NGAO NGAO should be 4-16x better than HST, reaching 3 107 – 108 Msun (depending on mass profile of satellites) With this kind of resolution and a sample of lenses one can reconstruct the mass function of satellites Proof of concept with LGSAO in progress Strigari et al. 2007 48 Gravitational mass imaging with NGAO with sample of ~30 lenses Vegetti & Koopmans 2009 49 NGAO Science Advisory Team Mark Morris NGAO Science Advisory Team • • • Established by Directors in Jun/09. Mark Morris (chair), Laird Close, George Djorgovski, Richard Ellis, James Graham, Michael Liu, Keith Matthews, Tommaso Treu Charter: – The purpose of the NSAT is to help ensure that the NGAO facility will provide the maximum possible science return for the investment and that NGAO will meet the scientific needs of the Keck community. – To that end the NSAT will provide science advice to the NGAO project with an emphasis on the further development of the science cases and science requirements. – The NSAT is also expected to provide science input in such areas as performance requirements, operations design, and design trades. – The NSAT will report to the Directors, providing a panel of experts for them to consult, and will work closely with the NGAO Project Scientist providing an expert science team that represents a wide range of AO interests in the Keck community. 51 Complementarity with Other Facilities • Other ground-based observatories • JWST & ALMA • TMT 52 NGAO in the world of 8-10 m telescopes: Uniqueness is high spatial resolution, shorter ’s, AO-fed NIR IFS Table 1. Next-Generation AO Systems Under Development for 8 - 10 meter Telescopes Type Telescope GS Highcontrast Subaru Highcontrast VLT NGS Highcontrast Gemini-S Wide-field Next-Generation AO Systems for 8 to 10 m telescopes Capabilities Dates Good Strehl, 188-act curvature, 4W laser 2008 Sphere (VLT-Planet Finder) High Strehl 2010 NGS Gemini Planet Imager (GPI) Very high Strehl 2010 Gemini-S 5 LGS MCAO 2’ FOV 2009 Wide-field Gemini 4 LGS GLAO Feasibility Study Completed ? Wide-field VLT 4 LGS HAWK-I (near IR imager) + GRAAL GLAO 7.5' FOV, AO seeing reducer, 2 x EE in 0.1'' 2012 Wide-field VLT 4 LGS MUSE (24 vis. IFUs) + GALACSI GLAO 1' FOV; 2 x EE in 0.2" at 750nm 2012 Narrow-field VLT 4 LGS MUSE (24 vis. IFUs) + GALACSI GLAO 7.5” FOV, 10% Strehl @ 750 nm in best seeing, low sky coverage 2012 N/LGS Coronagraphic Imager Hi(CIAO) • Most 8-10 m telescopes plan either high contrast or wide field AO • Only VLT has narrow-field mode, but has low sky coverage and needs best seeing 53 Complementary Landscape: ALMA • Millimeter and sub-millimeter wavelengths (0.35 - 9 mm) • Typical spatial resolutions ~ 0.1” • Resolutions for widest arrays as low as 0.004” at the highest frequencies • ALMA science: regions colder and more dense than those seen in the visible and near-IR by NGAO • Keck NGAO and ALMA observations complementary for: – Spatially resolved galaxy kinematics, z < 3 – Debris disks, protoplanetary disks & young stellar objects – Planetary & pre-planetary nebula 54 NGAO comparison to JWST & TMT Diffraction-limit (mas) at 2 m Diffraction-limit (mas) at 1 m Sensitivity Imager Detector Wavelength range (m) Sampling (mas/pixel) FOV (arcsec) Spectrometer Detector Wavelength range (m) WMKO NGAO 41 20 1x NGAO Imager H4RG 0.8-2.4 8.5 35 NGAO IFS H4RG 0.8-2.4 Spectral Resolution Spatial Resolution (mas) R~4000 10, ~25 & ~60 FOV (arcsec) Projected 1st science paper 0.8, 2 & 4 ~2015 JWST TMT NFIRAOS 63 14 limited by sampling 7 ~200x@K; ~1/6x@J ~80x IRMS NIRCam IRIS Imager H2RG 4x H2RG H4RG 0.8-2.5 0.6-2.35 0.8-2.5 60 31.7 4 120 130 15 IRMS NIRSpec IRIS IFS H2RG 2x H2RG H4RG 0.8-2.5 0.6-2.35 0.8-2.5 R~100 & ~1000 R=3270 multi-object modes Two image (0.24" slit) R~3000 IFU or longslicers; R=4660 slit modes R~4000 (0.16" slit) ~100 160 4 to 50 200 FOR 4 slit; 3x3 IFU 120 FOR up to 3 ~2014 ~2020 55 NGAO comparison to JWST Key Science Case Galaxy Assembly (JHK) Nearby AGNs (Z) General Relativity at Galactic Center (K) Extrasolar Planets around old Field Brown Dwarfs (H) Multiplicity of Minor Planets (Z or J) JWST & NGAO JWST much more sensitive at K. NGAO sensitivity higher between OH lines at H. NGAO sensitivity higher for imaging & spectroscopy at J. NGAO wins in spatial resolution at all . NGAO provides higher spectral resolution. Only NGAO provides needed spatial resolution (especially at Ca triplet). Only NGAO provides needed spatial resolution (especially important to reduce confusion limit). Long term monitoring may be inappropriate for JWST. Only NGAO provides needed spatial resolution. JWST coronagraph optimized for 3-5 m, >1"; NGAO competitive ≤2 m, <1". Only NGAO provides needed spatial resolution. 56 NGAO comparison to TMT • NGAO & NFIRAOS wavefront errors are similar (162 vs 174 nm rms). – Similar Strehls. TMT will have higher spatial resolution and sensitivity. – NGAO advantages: earlier science, accumulate experience that TMT will benefit from. NGAO will screen most important targets for TMT (time scarce), do synoptic obsns. Key Science Case Galaxy Assembly (JHK) Nearby AGNs (Z) General Relativity at Galactic Center (K) Extrasolar Planets around old Field Brown Dwarfs (H) Multiplicity of Minor Planets (Z or J) TMT & NGAO TMT IRIS lenslets (0.004″/px, 0.009″/px) have outstanding spatial resolution. TMT IRIS slicer (0.025"/px, 0.05"/px) gives same spatial resolution as NGAO IFU. TMT has higher sensitivity. NGAO may do many Z < 3 targets before TMT. NGAO will screen most important targets for TMT. With 3x higher spatial resolution TMT will detect smaller nearby black holes, and more distant large black holes. NGAO IFU: good performance at 850nm Ca triplet is specific requirement. Could potentially go to shorter wavelengths (e.g. Ha). TMT wins in spatial resolution, sensitivity less important (confusion limited). Significant value in continuing NGAO astrometry into TMT era (MCAO field stability concern; Keck access easier). NGAO synoptic advantage. TMT spatial resolution an advantage. Control of static wavefront errors & PSF characterization will be critical (NGAO will have 5 year head start on experience which TMT can learn from). NGAO synoptic advantage. TMT spatial resolution an advantage but NGAO could move to shorter l. A lot of this science could be done by NGAO before TMT. NGAO synoptic advantage. 57 Synergy / collaboration with TMT AO • Design reviews – – – • Analysis & Development – – – – – – • Ellerbroek & Sanders on NGAO SDR committee Ellerbroek on NGAO Build-to-Cost committee Wizinowich TMT telescope/AO performance review chair & on NFIRAOS PDR committee Joint TMT / NGAO error budget comparison Joint TMT / NGAO cost assessment Working together on extending LAOS simulation tool capabilities TMT provided atmospheric site monitor that WMKO is working with CFHT/UH to implement on Mauna Kea (for PSF reconstruction support) Discussions of real-time control architecture & algorithms Evaluating where TMT’s IRIS & the NGAO science instrument designs can overlap Hardware Development – – – CCD development (led by Adkins) Laser preliminary designs (with ESO, AURA & GMT) MRI-R2 proposal for procuring/implementing laser for K2 58 NSAT Initial Assessment • Very positively disposed to the evolution of the NGAO project • The scientific topics driving NGAO are the key topics our community needs and wants to invest in • Project is going well and on track; complex project • Supportive of development / science steps along the way (e.g., center launch, new laser, PSF calibration demos) • NGAO provides extremely beneficial groundwork for AO in the TMT era • NSAT is a conduit for the community’s input. 59 Open Issues & Community Input • What science might drive NGAO to shorter wavelengths? • Given NGAO as it is currently envisioned are there other science cases that we should be considering to further enhance the scientific appeal of NGAO? • How do we define science metrics for the stability and knowledge of PSFs? • What other opportunities are there for productive TMT/NGAO collaboration? – And for TMT/Keck community involvement? 60