Story Corp Project
Interviewer: Diana Faaberg
Narrator: John Baboukis
Dates: 25/09/2011
Place: Narrator’s Office
New Cairo, AUC
PVA Building, 2nd Floor
Office Number 2028
Phone +20.2.615.1247
College: Mass Communication
Prof.: Dr. Kim Fox
Date completed: 26 Sept. 11
Diana Faaberg
John Baboukis Interview
1/8
26 Sept. 11
Persons present:
Diana Faaberg - I
John Baboukis – S
Diana:
So I’ll start with your name and the title of your job.
John:
Title of my job, my name is John Baboukis and I’m the director of the music
program at The American University in Cairo, and the associate professor.
Diana:
Ok, what’s your hometown?
John:
I grew up in New York, so I lived in New York for 18 years then I went away
to school and I came to New York in the summers. I say New York but really it
was the suburbs of New York city not exactly in the city
Diana:
Ok
John:
I grew up in long island and then I lived in many places cause I my education
and then my jobs took me elsewhere. I studied in a small college outside
Philadelphia then I came back to long island for three years and then I went to
Indiana to the largest music school in the world in Bloomington Indiana. And
then I accepted a job, I lived in Minnesota for eight years then I moved to
Montreal Canada and then I was briefly in two other places, I went to Georgia
in the deep south for two years then I was in Illinois for two years and now I
seem to be in Egypt. So I’ve been in Egypt and this is my 7th year here and so
far as I can tell this is where I’m going to be now so.
Diana:
So you plan on staying here forever?
Diana Faaberg
John:
John Baboukis Interview
2/8
insha’allah, I don’t know I mean you never say never, you know, you never see
what happens but right now I have tenure here, I like the work I’m doing here
and I like living in Cairo. so we’ll have to see
Diana:
What exactly brought you to Egypt?
John:
I was looking for a job, and there was a job here. It was not because I have
always wanted to live in Egypt because it’s not true. Now it is true you know
that my parents are from Greece so I’m from this part of the world. I grew up
in New York but I’m Greek-American and in fact my grandmother was many
years in Egypt. There were many Greeks who lived in Egypt.
Diana:
Oh, yes
John:
But I will not pretend that I took interest in looking for a job in Egypt because
my grandmother lived in Cairo for a number of years. This position came open,
I had been working in Montreal this place looked interesting. And I will say
you know this it is of particular interest to me, I think it’s important to put
something back into our profession that you know we don’t just perform but
we teach. I feel I have a particular contribution that I can make here. I like the
fact that I’m an American who’s not wearing an army helmet I don’t have army
boots on and here I am doing something which is of some good to this part of
the world. This does you know have an appeal to me but that’s not what we’re
Diana Faaberg
John Baboukis Interview
3/8
doing here at the outer, really I was looking for work and this looked like an
interesting job at an interesting place and I applied and the job found me
Diana:
And you have been comfortable here in Cairo since the day you came?
John:
I have been extremely, the university has been good to me and the people have
been good to me. I was often asked by Americans at home if it is fine and
comfortable living in Egypt, If there is hostility against Americans. I’m here
now more than six years and I can remember one time that one person you
know clearly resented the fact that I was American. A taxi driver.
Diana:
How many years have you been living in Cairo?
John:
this is my as I say the beginning my 7th year
Diana:
Oh ok
John:
when I first came here my children were still in high school so my wife stayed
home. We were in Illinois at that time
Diana:
Ok
John:
And she was there taking care of the children and you know this was the first
time, and we’ve been married for more than 30 years now. This was the first
time we’ve been apart so it was quite different when I came here. When it
ultimately to the fact that we had internet and could use that don’t know if I
would have done it if I hadn’t been able to get in touch with her on a regular
basis. But what it ultimately came down to was that I had lots and lots of time
Diana Faaberg
John Baboukis Interview
4/8
in my hands cause I was not with my family, so I was able to dedicate that time
to really rebuilding and fixing things here and to do my job here. So I guess in
a way that worked out well. And then once my children were both in college
my wife, we were able to sell the house and my wife came here.
Diana:
So she’s here now.
John:
she here now.
Diana:
And she likes it as much as you do?
John:
Well, she likes it. I don’t know if she likes it as much as I do but you know
she’s a realist.
Diana:
You taught music in the US too, or was this your first?
John:
I have a doctoral degree in music. I did in my undergraduate school I was
going to be an English major, I was going to study Shakespeare, and I did. But
I ended up taking these music courses and I just kept taking music courses and
after a while it was very clear that that’s really where my heart was. So at the
last possible instant actually I changed to being first being a double major and
then just a music major. But I was a composition major, studying how to write
music.
Diana:
Ok
John:
And then when I finished my undergraduate degree because it was a BA not a
professional degree. First I was doing more work in composition then I got
Diana Faaberg
John Baboukis Interview
5/8
more interested in conducting and I began preparing to be a conductor, so I
spent two years out of school working as a night watchmen. I would practice at
the window, in the window in the middle of the night it would be black outside
so it was like a mirror so I could stand look at myself and practice. And I went
into a master’s degree in both coral and orchestra conducting and I got
interested in early music and I did a bunch of things. I ended up doing a
doctoral degree in conducting coral. And so I took a job at a university in
Minnesota but this was just when they were beginning to change how they hire,
the way that these positions were set up because this was not a tenure line
position it was a rolling contract so called. A three year appointment, and then
they renewed it but then they stopped renewing it. All of a sudden the job
wasn’t there. I went to Magill and something very similar happened it was a
tenure line when I went there but they were dropping they were you know
losing their full time positions there because it was the 90’s and they were
cutting, they were all cutting. So at Magill I was at the second position and
when I left you know, they vanished the second position they just gave it to
part timers. Hasn’t been there since, you know it was kinda hard You know
cause we had to move to Minnesota we had children and then I had to find a
job somewhere else. We went to Montreal and pretty much the same thing
happened. And then I took positions that were advertised as temporary
positions, I knew they were. The one in Georgia and the one in Illinois. So it’s
been kinds hard, music is not an easy profession to be in.
Diana:
Yea, of course.
Diana Faaberg
John:
John Baboukis Interview
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because lots and lots and lots of people are doing music, it’s a very nourishing
profession for the ones who do it as performers. But, because lots of people
want to do it you have to be really good but even then it’s difficult to set up
what kind of position you’re in and where you’re going to be. I came to Egypt
and it’s kind of a paradox of having to travel six thousand miles to find a place
where they would support the way I was trying to do things. Cause I came here
in the music position the music program was not very good position. But you
know prior to coming here I had been specifically a conductor I had been in
charge of coral programs working with choirs and teaching conducting and I
came here I was in charge of the whole music program. I was the music
director so I was responsible for all the musical activities at the AUC, and you
know I think it’s nice that because they want to attract American faculty to
come to Egypt so they give us free housing the way that it works out is a very
handsome package. But that’s not why I’m staying here, you know it’s not
because they give me free housing. It’s because it’s a good place to work, they
have always supported the way that we try to set up here.
I direct a very very fine community course in town, which is remarkable, I
have directed community courses before but what is unusual about this one is
that it’s about 15 to 20 percent Egyptians and the rest of the people are
Germans and British persons and Americans and a sprinkling of Dutch, Italians
and Spanish. I have never had a course like that, it’s really fascinating and you
know it’s a wonderful mix of people there because they love music, you know.
I do very well with these community courses this is a group of adults who
Diana Faaberg
John Baboukis Interview
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come together to sing as they’re all the same, and they know something, they
have often sung in choirs before some of them have studied voice and usually
know how to read music and, but they are usually all from Illinois so they are
all farmers children or they are all in Montreal or whatever or where I have to
meat in Georgia and so on. Here they’re from all over the place and they all
speak different languages, but I do the work I do the rehearsal in English. But I
have had to use my German and my French a lot more here than I ever did.
You know because I’d use French in Montreal but I have never been in a place
where I needed to speak in German. Now a massive number of my singers are
Germans you know in fact it’s the largest single continuing. Germans love
music. That’s the thing, I’m doing a piece in German this semester, I’m doing
the bounce record and they performed with orchestra and the end of every
semester. You know they raise the money to hire professional orchestra players
to work with. And I also direct a course here in AUC I have chambers singers
here and I teach courses on music but I love to teach. I like I like working with
the students here, they are very good students in AUC and they are eager you
know. They’re in some ways different from American students, they come
knowing much less about music, they wanna learn. This is something which
really I enjoy you know providing to intelligent interested interested students
Diana:
Egyptians?
John:
Egyptians, don’t look so surprised
Diana:
Yea, I am a bit surprised
Diana Faaberg
John:
John Baboukis Interview
8/8
Well, you know the fact is when I first came here people signed up to take
music classes cause they were easy. They wanted to get a high grade without
working and after I have been teaching for two semesters maybe three, my
student profile changed because the word finally got out it’s no longer ..
Diana:
It’s not easy.
John:
The case that you can come and take it and just get a you know go to a few
concerts and get a high grade. So we instead started getting students who were
interested in the subject and were willing to to spend a little bit of effort to
work and our student profile changed and it’s been an all together positive
experience.
Diana:
Ok, thank you for your time.
John:
You’re welcome.