Visionary Voices: Leaders. Lessons. Legacy.
Transcript: Bill Baldini Interview
June 7, 2011
Interview conducted by Lisa Sonneborn at Bill Baldini’s home. Videography by Lindsey
Martin.
Lisa: (01:01:51:00-01:02:25:10) Bill one of the first things we’d like to ask you today; I
know you’re background when you went to school was in political science so how was it
that you came to do news reporting?
Bill: [Sarcasm] you’re kidding.
Lisa: [Laughing] No! I’m not.
Bill: It’s a long story. I graduated high school early, I just turned 17 and I thought I knew
everything and I was supposed to go to Cornell but I didn’t want my parents to
mortgage the house to go. So at the time there was a draft, so I went in the Air Force for
four years and one day I realized what a mistake I made. It turned out to be okay; I
thought I knew everything and in that one 24-hour period I learned that I knew nothing.
So I started going to school and when I finally got out, I was assured in my own mind
that I was a captain of industry. So I lived in Overbrook and I was driving out to City
Line. The first big building I saw was Channel 6. So I was on my way downtown to go to,
like, PSFS with the big buildings. Went to Channel 6, filled out the forms, the back guard
said to me, “Oh by the way, what college did you graduate from?” I said well I was in the
Air Force for four years and I have two years of college and I’m still going to college. He
says, “Let me have that application”.He takes it back and he says “You come back when
you have a degree.” So I had a parking space and I crossed the street to Channel 10 - did
the exact same thing. The guard says, “What College did you graduate from?” I said
LaSalle. He said “Well go upstairs to personnel” so I- the first person I met was my wife.
I was astounded. It was a great place - all the woman seemed to come out of
magazines, they were really bright, and beautiful - it was wonderful. Went to personnel,
took these tests, went in there to the personnel director - her name was Zara Bishop.
She said “I’m looking at your resume and there’s something wrong here it does not say
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where you graduated college.” And I said, “ Mrs. Bishop the reason it says that is
because I had to lie to you. I had to do you a favor”. She was- she sits back in the chair
and she says, “Favor?” I said, “ Yes, because if I didn’t lie you wouldn’t have had the
opportunity to hire me and that would be the biggest mistake you made today.” She
started laughing. She said, “You’re unbelievable, you really mean that?” I said
absolutely I mean it. She said “We have a job in a newsroom,” I’ve never even seen the
newsroom, “ and it’s a management trainee job.” I said, “ I’ll take it - I’ve never been
unemployed, I’ll take it immediately.” They said, “Yeah come in at 5 o’clock on
Monday.” Went in the newsroom, 5 o’clock, no one talked to me for four hours. Finally
a guy came in whistling like this [whistles softly]. Goofy guy. Big goofy guy. And he says
to me “Are you Baldini?” I said, “yeah,” he says, “Oh you’re the new copy boy.” I said,
“No, no I’m not - I’m the new management trainee.” He says, “No, you’re the new copy
boy.” No, no. Now you have to imagine, for four years they’ve been telling me you’re no
longer a boy and the first thing I hear is’ you’re a boy’. I’m really annoyed. I said, “No,”
he said “You better come into my office.” Go into his office to find out I snowed her and
she snowed me. So this job was me being the copy boy. There were three of us and the
job was midnight to eight, eight to four, or four to midnight. And there were only three
of us. One guy just graduated Harvard, he was going to Harvard getting a Masters. The
other guy was a senior at Yale. And me. And the deal was within a year one of us would
be a writer. So I accepted this challenge and I remember this guy, the news director,
says to me “Well what do you think?” I said, “I’m gonna win, hands down.” And he says
“Why?” and I said, “ Because they’re boys and I’m a man.” [Laughs] I was crazy. And I
knew I would never give in. And after a year I got the job. And that’s how I started. So I
was no longer captain of industry. And he said, “The day you quit school is the day
you’re fired.” So I had to- naturally I finished. Got a scholarship to St. Joe’s, went to
finish St. Joe’s in political science. Crazy story, huh?
Lisa: That’s a great story.
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Bill: And everybody I worked with- everybody was one of these guys or women who
dreamed about being in TV. I mean they started when they were little kids you with
Edward R. Murrow. And me? I had no interest at all in the news until I got there and
then it became this challenge. And here I am.
Lisa: And there you were, and you’ve started this and you had no interest in the news,
no background in the news
Bill: No.
Lisa: And yet you had this incredible opportunity.
Bill: Yeah. I got this opportunity and then the more I was there, the more I liked it. And I
changed my- I was an industrial and public relations major then I changed to history
then I changed to philosophy and then I got my degree in political science. So the more
I was involved in the news the more of a challenge it was. You know writing and learning
how to produce. Back in those days you had to go through all the different levels. You
had to be a writer you had to be a producer. Then you actually had to do shows be the
executive producer and only then did you become a reporter. Now they kinda christen
you. Like knighthood. But then you had to earn it. It was really an interesting- you had
to be on the assignment desk for at least a year. So by the time you were out on the
street you had a fairly good knowledge of how things worked.
Lisa: (01:02:26:00-01:04:55:00) So is that how you heard about Pennhurst, Bill?
Bill: I found out about Pennhurst through an accident. It was probably the most
fortunate accident of my life. I was working on a Sunday I had nothing to do. The
Marriott was across the street and they used to have conferences all the time. So I said
to the assignment editor, “I want to go across the street and see what’s going on.” I ran
into this group, Main Line Chamber of Commerce. They were having a meeting about
this place called Pennhurst. I never heard of it. Didn’t know where it was. I said what’s
this place Pennhurst like and they start telling me the story and I sat there and I said, I’ll
never forget, I said, “If 10% of what you’re telling me is true I’ll do a story on it.” I said,
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How did you get in?” He said, “Well because we volunteer.” I said, “Well I can’t be a
fraud. How about swearing me in as a member of the Main Line Chamber of Commerce
and I’ll go with you next Sunday?” So I did. No cameras no nothing. And it was more
than I ever dreamed. I mean I was in shock. Everything they said was true, plus. So I
came back and I told my boss and he had the same reaction I had and he didn’t believe
me because I’m this young reporter, I haven’t done anything. [Pause]. So I finally
convinced him that I should go back with a camera. And he said, “How are you going to
get in?” I said, “Well leave that to me.” So I went back and I went to the person who
was running it, the superintendent Leon Potkonski. And frankly told him I saw
everything and if he does not let me in with my camera I’m going to stand outside the
gates everyday and explain to people what was inside. And I said, “It’s not gonna look
good for you. But if you let me in I’ll try to help you out because you need a lot of help
here.” So he said, “Well you’re blackmailing me.” I said, “You can call it anything you
want; I’m just telling you the truth.” And so he let me in. I was stunned. And that’s
when it got started.
Lisa: (01:00:00:00-01:00:42:02) Bill had you ever met a person with a disability?
Bill: Yes I met them but I- I don’t know how to explain it. My father was one of those
people who always said you never made fun of anyone who wasn’t exactly like you and
he had a great empathy for anybody that was short-changed by nature for any reason.
And it kind of impressed me. So you know I always had this sympathy for anybody
through no fault of their own had a problem. But I never saw anything like I saw up
there. Never. Just- I was stunned.
Lisa: (01:00:42:10-01:02:21:27) Can you describe the first day you actually visited
Pennhurst even without your camera? Can you describe that moment?
Bill: Yes. I was with the Junior Chamber of Commerce, Main Line Junior Chamber of
Commerce, and we were going through these buildings, and what you can’t show on
T.V. is the smell. The smell was unbelievable. I mean you had 80 people in a room and
no one is taking care of them and the smell was just incredible. They’re not bathed;
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their bathroom habits are non-existent. There was no one to help them out. And just
to see them in that way and just watch them rock and being ignored and- I have to say it
wasn’t the attendants’ fault. You had two attendants for 80 people! I couldn’t have
done any better. Nor anybody I know could’ve done any better. But this was the
condition and I was- my eyes were just wide open and I was thinking why doesn’t
anybody care about this? And that’s when I start talking to the attendant’s. I started
talking to some of the administrators. And some of the administrators were elated that
I was there. Because this is the first time they can get their word out without getting
fired. So they would help me out all the time. I’d get notes, phone calls - it was great.
So that was my first reaction and this is what people don’t know; my cameraman and
my soundman had a very difficult time. They wanted to leave. Like I can’t stand this
anymore I have to get out of here. I used to have to give them breaks. You know kinda
calm them down. We gotta do this. And try to explain that this is really worthwhile
doing. Which they did. They hung in. For five days. Five straight days.
Lisa: (01:02:22:08-01:03:01:20) what was their reaction based on? Was it based on just
the physical smell or just an emotional reaction?
Bill: It was an emotional reaction. You know we- they had the same reaction I did. How
could we do this to these people? And it was we. And you know to see it everyday and
the people there were starved for any kind of attention. And we’d walk into a ward you
know and all they wanted to do was touch you. And if you hugged them, they’d cry. It
was so unbelievable and it got to all of us. And you know it was hard to stay there all
day.
Lisa: (01:03:02:03-01:03:19:22) Bill do you remember the first resident at Pennhurst
that you encountered?
Bill: No. I just remember going into this giant room with people rocking, banging their
heads, you know just sitting around doing nothing. This absolute despair kind of got to
me.
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Lisa: (01:03:22:00-01:04:41:11) The people, the staff at Pennhurst, particularly the
administrative staff seemed very frank in their interviews with you. Why do you think it
is that they weren’t more guarded, given the conditions at Pennhurst?
Bill: I think some of the reasons the people at Pennhurst, the administrators, were open
to me was because they wanted to confess. They worked in this atmosphere all the
time and no one was listening to them. So now, I was their vehicle to get the word out
to their bosses. I think that had a lot to do with it. I think some people that had been
there a long time became a little callous to the situation, really didn’t see the forest
through the trees. The attendants and some of the administrators were just ecstatic.
Like god I’ve been trying to get somebody to listen to me all these years and no one was
listening and I- you know gave them a vehicle so they could be heard. And I had to
protect them because I didn’t want them to get fired, but they helped me enormously.
They were really great - I couldn’t have done it without them.
Lisa: (01:00:00:00-01:01:27:26) You’ve said that a lot of the staff were really sort of
angels trying to do good against, you know, reallyBill: Incredible odds
Lisa: Unbeatable odds. But did you come across some Pennhurst staff that you thought
maybe, as you said, were more callous or just were indifferent .
Bill: Oh sure. Yeah, I saw some staff members who were callous. Most of them were
not, most of them were really dedicated people making 75 dollars a week to go in and
take care of 80 people a day. That’s incredible. But there’s some people, there were
some people there who became callous at the situation and shouldn’t have been
working there. But they were few and far between. Most of them were absolutely
dedicated but overwhelmed. Let me give you the best example: I went into a ward and
there were eighty cribs. Eighty. Cages. Metal cribs. And some of the people in the cribs,
I mean they ranged in age from 6 months to 5 years. They’re lets were this thick [using
hands] that’s their thigh. So I asked how come these people are in these cages, how
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come they can’t walk? And the attendant said because- they opened the closet and
they had like eighty mattresses- and he said, “Because we don’t have enough people to
put these mattresses on the floor so they can learn how to crawl”, because you had to
learn how to crawl before you can walk. So they stayed in a cage 24/7 for years. I was
like you’re kidding me. “No, that is the reason. We just can’t.” And then I thought about
it; I mean you’re changing diapers. Eighty people! Two [raises hand signaling 2]
attendants. There’s just no way. And that’s the way it was.
Lisa: (01:01:30:08-01:02:44:03) You know you’ve described the smell of Pennhurst when
you first walked in and how overwhelming that was. I imagine Pennhurst as being also a
cacophony of sound given all the people. And yet, when I look at Suffer the Little
Children, there’s little to no ambient sound in your broadcast and I was wondering if you
could tell us a little bit about why that is?
Bill: There’s two things at Pennhurst that you notice right away was: the smell, and the
sound. The sounds were people moaning, all day long. Moaning, groaning, you know
pleading for help. It was terrible. The reason we did not have a lot of natural sound,
you gotta remember when we did this in 1968, it wasn’t a big deal. Sound you only used
for interviews. You know now everything’s natural sound - you want it to be. But,
there was even an area in the documentary where I remember we didn’t have sound I
just showed pictures but it was silence. You know if I had to do it now I’d make a big
deal of the sound but- so be it. You know that’s a long time ago. But that’s why we did
not have a lot of natural sound. It just wasn’t that important. You didn’t think that way.
Lisa: (01:02:45:06-01:03:32:00) And what kinds of sounds did you hear when you were
walking through Pennhurst?
Bill: Well the people, you know, like I said the sounds of Pennhurst were sounds of pain.
Neglect. They would just moan they would just cry. They would just be banging their
heads. I mean some people did it out of frustration. You know, I want a feeling so I’ll
bang my head. They had to wear helmets all day long. It was incredible and what’s
even more incredible when you met people who were slightly retarded [and people]
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who were not retarded at all. It was a dumping ground for anybody. And you
wondered why they were there. And how they, in their own minds, went downhill
instead of uphill. It- that was horrible. That was horrible to see.
Lisa: (01:03:34:01-01:00:34:01) What did your producers think- you know your crew
had such a visceral reaction to this terrible place. What did your producers, who didn’t
think there was a story to begin with, think when you started bringing back this very,
very troubling footage?
Bill: That’s an interesting question because I do remember distinctly when I first came
back. We worked all day and I mean we were mentally and physically wiped out. And
when I brought the film- it was film you had to process it, and then you had to edit it. I
called the news director down and then he watched it and he was almost in tears- he
just couldn’t believe it. He says, “Bill, I thought you were exaggerating.” I said, “Barry, I
understand but this is it.” He said- and at the time we ran stories and they were a
minute forty-five. I was getting like six and seven minutes. The last one I think was
twenty-three minutes. But, the bottom line was- the bad news was when we put it on
the air the first day we got such an unbelievable reaction from the public we didn’t
know what to do. It was like the biggest reaction we ever got from anything. So they
told me, “You know you gotta go back tomorrow, you gotta continue this.” And I had
been working like sixteen hours because I had to write it, I had to produce it, I had to
edit it. So you know I’m not getting very much sleep like three or four hours you know I
was sleeping in the building in the ladies room. So I had to go back the next day and the
reaction got even bigger and it was like well you gotta do it again and I was taking these
No Doze pills. I was- by the fifth day I couldn’t speak I lost my voice because I was just
so tired and my body just gave way. So I wrote it- I wrote the last day and I couldn’t
read it. So John Facenda read it and maybe that is the best thing that every happened
but- I just passed out I just couldn’t do it anymore. It was like 24/7 - after the fourth
day, I was done.
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Lisa: (01:00:34:05-01:00:59:15) Why was it the best thing that happened that John
read?
Bill: Because John was so good. John’s the Voice of God, you know. He’s the NFL guy.
He’s great. I never thought about it at the time but you know afterwards I said jeez that
was really great he read that thing perfectly. Here’s a guy that’s been in the business for
twenty years at the time and I’ve been in there twenty days. There’s no comparison.
But, it worked out.
Lisa: (01:01:00:14-01:02:29:15) You know when you did your report I think- I think
rightly so you put so much of the responsibility for the conditions at Pennhurst on the
community and the indifference of the community. You’ve described an overwhelming
response to the piece as it aired. In fact we know that from our parent advocates. They
were so incredibly thrilled to see that finally conditions at Pennhurst were being
exposed. I can imagine there were also parents whose children were in Pennhurst who
were heartbroken. I wonder if you can describe a little bit about the types of comments
that were coming to you with this huge overwhelming public response.
Bill: Alright, here’s the bad news. The bad news about Pennhurst is that we’ve ignored
those people much too long. Maybe fifty years at the time. Here’s the good news.
When people were exposed to it- as I said we got the biggest reaction we ever got I
think to this day. And to the public’s credit they jumped on it. They were infuriated.
They were writing to their congressman, they were writing to their state senators,
representatives. And there was a demand to change things. And they did. So when
people were exposed to it they reacted in positive fashion. And that made me feel
great. Like I said it’s probably the greatest thing I ever did. And I was in the business for
forty-three years. That was the first and probably the best.
Lisa: (01:02:30:12-01:03:29:16) When you started out what did you hope to accomplish
with the piece? What did you think was possible to accomplish with the piece?
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Bill: I was naïve, I have to admit. I was hoping to expose this thing to get a little
reaction. Never did I dream of the reaction that I did get. But I was happy, I wanted to
see things improve, one way or the other. And because of people- because of everyday
people they improved greatly and I think it changed the entire system. Because what a
lot of people don’t know is, after we did this, the response was so great that CBS sent it
out to all the ONO stations and told them, “Go find a place near you and do a story on
it.” That’s how Geraldo Rivera got started. He found a place called Woodside or
something up in New York and WCBS did the story after we did. And every other station
they tried to find a place.
Lisa: (01:03:30:04-01:04:33:24) Were there any questions when you were interviewing
the staff at Pennhurst that you wish you had asked but you didn’t or felt like you
couldn’t?
Bill: No, I mean I tried my best at the time. I mean, at times I was in shock. Jesse Fear
was the guy that blew me away. I would sit there and listen to this guy tell me how he
tortured people. And I could not really react the way- I really wanted to start screaming
at the guy, but I had to remain cool and calm. And just keep him talking and see how
long he would go, and he just kept on going. And I know at times some of the
administrators were really embarrassed, you know because they knew they were
blowing it and they didn’t do what they should have been doing and they didn’t fight
hard enough. But it was an interesting experience sitting on the other side and listening
and trying to control my own emotions. And believe me I had them, and I just couldn’t
just start screaming.
Lisa: (01:04:34:03-01:01:16:29) The report that you did at the end- channel 10 made
some recommendations- I think I have some written here. They wanted to, obviously,
end the overcrowding. Add physicians; add gynecological care for women, teachers
with special education experience, etc. And you’ve said that there were some
improvements after your report. Can you tell me a little bit about what those
improvements were?
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Bill: Yeah- they got sixteen million dollars which was quite good. And things changed
rapidly. They started taking people out, putting them other places. The whole idea of
community living had a little traction. They did get added staff, the women got braziers,
you know crazy stuff like that. There was a noticeable change almost immediately. And
then it continued. It just kinda snow-balled. Because it stayed in the news. And we did
like four follow-ups; four half-hour follow-ups, which I cannot find - they’re lost, and I
don’t know where they are. I did one it was called, “No Less Precious.” And I did
another one, “Lest We Forget” and it was the fourth one. But we- we kept at it. It
wasn’t one of these jobs where we just did the story and left. No, we went back again
and again and again, and every time we did another series there was another reaction
from Harrisburg, which was positive. So that was good. Made us feel great and we had
parties up there for the people. The entire station went out. It was good; we did kind of
make a difference.
Lisa: (01:01:18:18-01:03:47:14) At one point in the report- I think- I’m probably
paraphrasing, you said that people with disabilities needed a brilliant orator to trumpet
their cause.
Bill: They had none. Zero. Yes, the retarded- at the time it was called retarded- the
retarded had no advocates that made a difference. There was no one out there
screaming about it, showing it. They were just lost. And it was dumping ground. If you
were in court in Philadelphia and you were a pyromaniac, and this is a real story, they
didn’t know what to do with you and they sent you to Pennhurst. I met a couple guys
who were pyromaniacs and they were up there and they were like wolves. You know,
they were in with lamps - it was crazy. They just dumped you there because not even
the judges understood it. Mental retardation and mental illness were the same in their
mind, and there’s an enormous difference. If they didn’t know what to do with you:
send them to Pennhurst. Just, get outta my way, get outta my sight and everything will
be fine. And that was the real problem. That had to end. They were so backwards up
there. I’ll give you another example - it just used to kill me. I used to wonder why they
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segregated the males and females. Now I’m talking about eating breakfast or lunch.
And there was a minister up there named Cal Carey. And Cal and I questioned this.
Why can’t they eat together? Or why can’t they socialize? And the answer was, this is
how backward they were, the answer was they thought there would be a mass orgy.
There would be riots, there would be rapes, and this would be horrible, violent. Our
whole thing was why don’t you give it a try see what happens. They gave it a try. You
know what happened? They ate. They ate, they talked, and that was it. But no one
would even give it a try in fifty some years. [Laughing] How insane is this? It was- we
just used to sit there and go I can’t believe this is happening. And then what people also
didn’t know: the better you were, the more normal you were, the harder you worked,
the less of a chance you had of ever leaving. You know why? Because you worked for
nothing. You can mow the lawn; you can do the laundry. They kept you there. So if you
were there at twenty-one or twenty-two and you just needed a little help: you were
there for forty years. Because they wouldn’t let you go because you were too important
to the operation. Is that sad? Is that incredible? That’s the way it was.
Lisa: (01:03:47:10-01:04:55:00) With your talking about this I’m thinking of a boy you
interviewed- I want to say his name is Johnny- who was a child who perhaps needed a
better educational situation, there was nothing really going on. Did you ever find out
what happened to Johnny?
Bill: When I met Johnny at Pennhurst I immediately knew he didn’t belong there. He
had his problems but they weren’t- he was not mentally retarded. He should have been
in a place for mental illness maybe, because his IQ was almost normal. But it decreased
over time because of the environment he was in. He reacted to the environment, which
is normal. And you know he regressed all the time. And God only knows what
happened to that poor guy. If he was put into a situation where he had some help I’m
sure he would’ve been a productive member of society. I don’t know if he ever had the
chance to do that.
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Lisa: (01:00:00:00-01:01:06:24) So do you think there’s been someone to champion
these causes or champion people like Johnny? Has there been one person that stood
out in the time that you’ve covered this community?
Bill: Well, there were a lot of people, a lot of people who do not get credit. Some of the
people who should get credit for the enormous changes at Pennhurst and mental
retardation are former lieutenant Governor Ray Broderick who was also a judge. He
never really got the credit he deserved. Tom Gilhool who was a lawyer. He championed
the cause for years. The nameless people in the background that helped me out; they
deserve an enormous amount of credit and will never get it. But without them, things
would still be the same out there, I’m sure. And Broderick especially, he was really
instrumental in getting things changed. No doubt about it. Because when he became a
judge he got the case. Man that was great. He knew exactly what was going on.
Lisa: (01:01:08:03-01:01:51:01) So Bill, you’ve worked as a broadcaster for more than
forty years. Where does this piece Suffer the Little Children fit for you personally into
the body of your work?
Bill: Here’s the ironic part. It’s probably in my own mind the best thing I ever did. The
most effective thing I’ve ever done, and the thing I’m most proud of. Let me give you
can analogy. It’s like being a rookie baseball player. Being put into the World Series at
the bottom of the 9th inning with bases loaded and we’re losing by three runs. And you
hit a grand slam home run. You can play for twenty years and it will never happen
again. That’s it. It’s downhill from then on, and it’s the way Pennhurst was for me.
Lisa: (01:01:52:15-01:02:24:01) Is there a single image from Pennhurst that you’ll never
be able to forget?
Bill: Oh yeah. Two of them. Being in that ward with the eighty cribs. And being in that
giant room with everybody just sitting around moaning, groaning, banging their heads.
Crying. To this day I can still see it vividly. It’s there, it’ll always be there. And I’m just
glad things changed.
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Lisa: (01:02:25:16-01:03:06:00) Have you visited Pennhurst since its closure?
Bill: Oh yes. Yeah, I’ve done many interviews there. Yeah people always want to go
back to do an interview, which I did. It was more accessible before the last several
years. And we can always go back there and I even went through the buildings. I think
it was last year, went through the buildings again. Brought back a lot of memories. And
what people don’t realize the buildings are in terrible shape. But they were in terrible
shape fifty years ago. They couldn’t have passed- not one of them coulda passed any
kind of inspection. But nobody cared it didn’t matter. See that was the problem. It just
didn’t matter. This wasn’t important to anybody.
Lisa: (01:03:06:23-01:03:54:03) Do you remember how you felt when the last of the
residents left Pennhurst?
Bill: When Pennhurst finally closed, it was like someone gave me this great gift. I was
ecstatic. I couldn’t believe it but I was happy and my next concern was what are we
gonna do. And the community living arrangements worked out great. I think a lot of
people are a lot better off today because of everything that happened up there. And all
the court cases and- it was worthwhile. It was a worthwhile effort on everyone’s part.
No doubt about it.
Lisa: (01:03:54:16-01:00:29:29) Some advocates currently believe that the way things
are going fiscally in the state [PA] that institutions could re-open. In fact there have
been fifty dedicated beds by the state [PA] thus far. What are your feelings about the
possibility of an institution re-opening?
Bill: I don’t think that’s a real good idea. I can’t believe that today they’re thinking
about re-introducing places like Pennhurst. Even though best intentions and all- it
doesn’t work. It just doesn’t work. What works is community projects, community
homes with good supervision. It works. These people only want a chance. I can’t tell
you how many I met that have productive lives. That have a job; some of them are
married they’re doing well, they even have children. They are productive members of
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society where they would’ve never, ever had a chance before. And because of
community living services, etc, they actually have a chance to reach whatever potential
they have. That’s all I’m asking. Just let them have a chance. It’s just like- can you
imagine your children not getting an education. Well you know you’d say, “You can’t do
that, that’s not right.” Well these children deserve the same thing your children have.
That’s all their asking. Just give them a chance to reach their potential. It’s the law. It’s
the right thing to do.
Lisa: (01:00:31:17-01:00:43:28) You know people with disabilities and parents and
advocates really do credit your report “Suffer the Little Children” with really of course
turning public and then consequently, you know, legislative opinion or legislative
process toward the closing of institutions. So in that regard I’ve heard you described as
a hero for this community and I wonder if you can see yourself in that way?
Bill: I do not see myself as a hero in any way, shape, or form. I was just lucky enough to
have the opportunity to put that problem in front of the public and the public is the
hero. It is that every day person who said, “This is terrible, I want a change.” They
wrote a letter, made a phone call, or just supported the people who wanted change.
They’re the heroes. Guys like Lt. Governor Broderick are a hero. As I said before Tom
Gilhool is a hero. They really stayed with it and did a great job. And the parents: how
about those parents who stuck with it all those years. How about through guilt feelingsI mean they felt, a lot of them felt very, very badly about putting their children in
Pennhurst. And then when they had a chance to change things, they worked at it, they
stuck together. They’re the heroes.
Lisa: (01:00:45:11-01:04:42:24) Do you think that news reporting can be a catalyst for
social change or do you think that it has the responsibility to be a catalyst for social
change?
Bill: I think that journalism- I have mixed feelings because I’m one of these guys that
says- I’m very annoyed today where journalists always take a position. They’re
conservative or you’re liberal. I really dislike that. You know I just wasn’t brought up
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that way in journalism. It was- you had to be objective. There are times, there are
times where something is so wrong. Like Pennhurst, nobody said, “Oh I see the other
side, they were right in doing this.” No. Where you can be an advocate for change and I
think that television and the news media has a responsibility to make certain things
better and when they found it. And I think that’s probably the best thing about being a
journalist, that you have the propensity to change something for the better. And when
you do, all those stories that you hated, all those times you had to ask that mother
about their child dying or something- that you hated- was worthwhile because you did
something positive. We did a thing called, “On Your Side” years ago. And that’s all we
did was take up the cause of the little guy who couldn’t fight City Hall. And it worked
great, you know, and I felt that we finally gave something back to the public for
supporting us, which they did. And I think there’s a place in journalism for that.
Absolutely. There is one thing I want to explain to you about Broderick. One of the
reasons that everything started to change was because after that first week I was
frustrated because I didn’t see an immediate change in Harrisburg. The Governors
name was Ray Schaeffer. Who hated me. Hated me. Because he thought I was
embarrassing him. Instead of saying, “Oh, thanks for telling me, I’m gonna change
things,” he hated me for bringing it out. The Lt. Governor at the time was Ray Broderick
who was frankly, my neighbor. I didn’t know him but he was within walking distance
from my house. So on a Friday night I got my crew. We got the film camera & we got a
projector. I knocked on his door about nine o’clock on Friday night. The guy comes
down in a bathrobe, answers the door himself, he says, “What can I do for you?” I told
him who I was and I said did you know about- he said no and I said, “Governor I gotta
show you this.” He actually said,” Okay.” I was stunned. He says, “Oh come on in.” He
said, “Let me put on some clothes,” he put on clothes, we went in his living room and
we showed him the whole series. He sat there, and he was crying. And he said, “Bill I’ll
tell you this: I can’t believe what I just saw. I will make sure they’re aware of this in
Harrisburg on Monday.” And he really did start advocating for us. Now I was no longer
perceived as the enemy, I was a friend. And he worked in the shadows to help out and
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then he became a federal judge and just by dumb luck he gets the case. I was so happy I
refused, I never went to the courtroom once for fear of someone saying, “Oh, you know
this guy.” You know how there’s something going on that I would hurt the case at all. I
just stayed away. And he was instrumental in the big changes in attitude towards
mental retardation. Good man.
Lisa: (01:00:00:00-01:01:10:25) One of the stories I love about judge Broderick which
he’s told-, which he did tell in his life-, was the phone call he got from a Pennhurst
resident. I think he said it was very late at night maybe eleven, past eleven, and from
what you said if he was in his pajamas at nine o’clock then I think it was late for him
[laughing]. But this was after Pennhurst had closed- several months after Pennhurst
closed- he got a phone call late at night and he answered the phone and he said in a
very gruff voice, “Who’s calling?” because it was so late. And it was a voice saying, “This
is the first time I’ve used a telephone, and I wanted to call you and say ‘thank you’.”
Bill: How nice.
Lisa: And it had been someone who resided in Pennhurst. I wonder if Pennhurst
residents have ever contacted you, or parents [of Pennhurst residents]?
Bill: Oh yeah. Like I said, I run into the them all the time because I kept on doing followups. So I would do them and in new community settings; you know they’re out and it
used to make me feel great because I saw these people at Pennhurst and now I saw
them living an entirely different life and I loved it. I just loved it. I thought it was great.
You know they knew what was going on and they were grateful and not that I needed it
but it was nice for them to say, “Hey look, thanks a lot. I’m a lot better off than I used to
be. I really appreciate it.”
Lisa: (01:01:11:24-01:01:39:23) Is there anything else you would care to share with us?
Bill: No it’s just that, you know, Pennhurst and places like it are closing left and right
throughout the world now. It’s really nice. I mean you know this is great. There’s a
whole new attitude towards the mentally disabled. You know one way or another or
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physically disabled. It’s a whole new ball game and I just love it I’m glad I was a part of
it.
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