CIPD Podcast – 112 LGBT Ep2: Amy Stanning
Amy Stanning: I had realised and come to understand what my true gender identity
was at a very early age but like a lot of people of my generation we kind of made the
best of it. The older I got, and probably the more stress I accumulated in my
everyday life at work and at home, the less able I was to cope. And I got to the point
where I could no longer cope with that. So all that’s coming together. All that's kind of
crystallising. So then to cover kind of how did I approach it at work. Frankly I got to
the position that this was something I had to do and then it was almost a question of
will work go with me or not because either way I'm going to do it.
Philippa Lamb: Right.
AS: Once I’d got to the Rubicon moment I reached out to my senior HR business
partner and I rang and basically said, “This may come as a bit of a shock to you but I
need to transition my gender, transition my presentation at work and I need your help
to do that.” So Karen being the lovely empathetic person that she is was hugely
supportive but the first thing she said to me was, “This is new to me so whilst I can't,
[at our first meeting] I can't give you the answers, my commitment to you is I’ll go and
find out.”
PL: And was that a good response for you?
AS: Yeah so that was great. And she was very supportive, very committed to get the
information she needed to work with me to make it happen. And the bottom line, and
I’ll always remember what she said, she said, “Whatever it takes...”
PL: Right.
AS: “…we’ll make this happen and we’ll support you. You do not need to have any
worries about work.”
PL: What a great response.
AS: So that was just amazing for me.
PL: So that must have been the first of many conversations you had at that time and
subsequently about this at work?
AS: Yeah.
PL: How did they go because at some point presumably you sat down with your
director, superior?
AS: ((laughs)) I remember that very, very, very well and he was very supportive, so
that was a major relief. So basically we put in place a plan which had me sitting down
with my team. So at that time I probably had 25 direct reports, tell them the story, in
my own words, in my own time. And at that meeting would be present my boss, HR,
a representative from the Gender Trust. That I would then share and then I would
withdraw. And whilst I was out of the room they then ran a Q&A session, it was like
the “Hoo; so what does this mean?” Answer all the questions.
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PL: Okay before you go any further I want to ask how you felt before that meeting
because it just sounds terrifying.
AS: Terrified. Absolutely terrified. And I think kind of a big learn for me was kind of
looking back at that in time and it really is seared on my memory, oh gosh I think they
all probably thought I was going to die, I’d got some awful illness that I was telling
them about. It was very heavy and very serious. And actually I learnt something not
long after that actually trans is not tragic.
PL: And how did they respond?
AS: Shock. Huge shock. I then had two weeks leave and during that time it was
agreed that all my reports would go through a short, I think one to two hour training
session on what it meant to be transgender, why, how, implications, the journey,
loos, pronouns, names, sexual orientation, dress, you name it. So that then gets you
to a position when the day comes when you go back and you present in your
acquired gender for the first time which is nerve wracking and I think what I would
say is people get really hung up on making mistakes or getting it wrong.
PL: Right.
AS: So it’s like the atmosphere in the office was I knew everybody was waiting for
the first person to use my former name, because of course I changed name, or to
misgender me. And actually I’ll always remember the first person to misgender
myself was me, which kind of, and I actually made a point of going, “Oh there you go
I'm the first,” and we had a laugh and that kind of broke the tension.
PL: Do you constantly feel you’re having to manage people’s expectations and
preconceptions?
AS: Yes so my presentation was hugely important to me and still is.
PL: And what’s the key thing there for you to appear appropriate for the role you’re
in?
AS: Absolutely.
PL: Right.
AS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know you make some fashion crime mistakes along
the way.
PL: Well we all do that.
AS: But the point is if the culture and the environment is right whatever people feel
they will treat you with respect. And actually some of the people that I knew best or
my closest colleagues might take me aside and say, “Do you know what, that's not
really working,” or, “Your make-up’s a bit over the top.” But the point I want to get to
is that for me work became a really safe space. And the challenge for me wasn’t
being at work it was going to work and leaving work.
PL: The journey?
AS: The journey. So sitting on the train, sitting on the tube with people looking at you,
that was incredibly stressful and on more than one occasion led to me being abused
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and assaulted. And I had to steel myself and occasionally still do, leaving work and
jumping on the train and all the rest of it.
PL: Let’s talk a little bit about inclusivity at work because obviously that’s an issue for
all sorts of people within the LGBT+ community on all sorts of levels. For you, what
would it be that might have got in the way of you feeling included once you’d
transitioned?
AS: Yeah use of language, but also it’s the way people behave. It’s when you talk
about other things, fashion, whether it be shopping or whether it be sport, news,
politics, whatever, it’s actually being included in those conversations, being included
within the group. The fact that I've gender transitioned does not mean that I'm not
interested in sport anymore, yeah?
PL: ((laughs)) Oh right.
AS: But you know kind of at the end of the day you have to be big enough to get over
that.
PL: For HR, managers at all levels, what is the most important thing they need to
keep in the forefront of their mind if they find themselves in the situation of having
that conversation that you had with your HR, what should they do?
AS: The reality is trans people are out there. So however big your workforce, large or
small, you've probably got trans people in it. So I think the statistics would say that at
some time or other in their lives about 5% of the population question their identity.
About 1% of the population ever in their lifetime do something about it. So that
means within every HR group there needs to be a subject matter expert, point of
excellence. I think that's really, really important. But when you’re having the
conversation be empathetic and be understanding and commit to go away and do
your research because I think the message is that for the individual who’s
transitioning to get to the point of having the conversation they’ve gone through so
much and what they need is your help, your empathy and your support and you, as
Karen was in my case, to be the trusted and informed professional that they can rely
on for help in transitioning with work.
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