Interview: Sue Vinnicombe
Women on Corporate Boards of Directors
Steve
Macaulay:
Today we are going to look at the issue of women on corporate
boards of directors. We are doing this through interviewing the
key editor of a book on the subject, Professor Susan Vinnicombe.
Now Susan, could you give me some background on this book and
also the importance of it, why you set out with it in the first place?
Yes. I really got together with another Professor, Ron Burke in
Sue
Vinnicombe Canada, three years ago who has been doing a lot of work on
women on boards in Canada and of course, we have been
working from Cranfield for last ten years on producing the Female
FTSE each year, which charts women directors in the top FTSE
board. And we felt that there really has been such a burgeoning
of interest in women on boards across the world, that it was time
really to bring out a book to have a look at this work.
Steve
Macaulay
So the key factors here are it’s global, it isn’t just picking the UK or
any one country?
That is absolutely right. Ten years ago, it’s very interesting; I think
Sue
Vinnicombe the USA was the only country in the world actually looking at
monitoring the number of women on corporate boards. Since
then, right now, we have included twelve countries in the book, but
we haven’t even included every country that does monitor. You
are looking at probably upwards of about 14 or 15 countries
actively monitoring now in the area, whereas this didn’t exist ten
years ago.
Steve
Macaulay
The other aspect that interested me is that there is a research
basis to this as well, isn’t there? It’s not just people’s viewpoints?
No that is right. Catalyst, a big organisation in New York, really
Sue
Vinnicombe set the tone and have rigorously set up this annual census in the
USA and when we followed suit ten years ago, we spoke to them
to make sure that our methodology was as rigorous and robust as
theirs. And I think to be fair to most countries they have done
similarly. So there is this robustness to the whole process.
And I think what is interesting now, and one of the drivers for
writing for the, is that different countries have taken such different
approaches on the whole subject.
Professor Sue Vinnicombe
Steve
Macaulay
Perhaps we could delve into that? You pick out a number of key
themes – obviously we can’t go into all the detail in the book – but
what, from an organisational point of view particularly, are
important themes that you would like to stress?
Well, I think that what we try and highlight in the book is just how
Sue
Vinnicombe differently – as I have just said – how differently different countries
have tackled it.
So the point is that countries, and now a number of major
countries, are monitoring the number of women on boards and all
come to a similar conclusion. So that in this country around about
12% of directors on FTSE 100 boards are women. We are doing
reasonably well compared to other countries where it is much,
much lower in single figures.
And I think unanimously countries have decided this is absolutely
appalling; this is amazing that in 2009 so few women are coming
up to the top, bearing in mind, if you look at the UK context, girls
are outperforming boys at every level of education – right the way
through to university – and it was believed, I mean the traditional
economic view of human talent, managing human talent, is it’s all
down to human capital. If you educate your population, the
educated people will get to the top. This clearly isn’t the case
because women aren’t getting through to the top any more quickly
now than they were 10 or 15 years ago.
So that is, I think, the key issue which challenges us all across the
world; why it is that women aren’t coming through. And as I said
different countries are tackling it differently. In some countries,
the USA, Australia, New Zealand, for example, they have been
quite adamant about saying this is just a question of time and
women will come through. Other countries, namely Scandinavia
and particularly Norway, have said we have simply got to do
something quite radical, something quite dramatic. So of course,
as I think the whole world probably knows now, they have brought
in legislation about having a quota of 40% of women on boards
two years ago.
So those are the two extremes. Spain is somewhere in between.
They have looked very carefully at the Norway experience and
have felt that to try and make Spain move very quickly - they are
currently at 6% of women on their top boards – sort of overnight,
within 12 months, is a bit too radical. So they have opted for
legislation in which they recommend that there be 40% of women
on boards and they have actually also said over the next eight
years. So they have put in, I think, a much more realistic timeline
there.
Steve
Macaulay
Many of the people that are going to be reading this book are
decision makers, directors and managers in organisations. What
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Professor Sue Vinnicombe
are the messages that you would like to leave them with?
I think it’s making them more aware of just what the lack of
Sue
Vinnicombe diversity on the boards looks like. For a start, I don’t know how
many chairmen and CEOs actually stop and think about it.
Naturally their first priority is thinking about how the business is
doing; how many of them actually stop and think this may be
related to what kind of diversity I have on my board, from the point
of view of bringing in different perspectives and different points of
view.
I am less of the view that you can actually directly correlate a
woman on the board with financial performance for the year, I think
that is actually really counterintuitive and I don’t agree with that
line of argument. But I do believe, very strongly, that women,
particularly where women make up a large percentage of your
customer base, they have very valuable and potentially different
perspectives to bring to boardroom discussion.
So I think it is really important that chairmen and CEO think about
what diversity means to them at their board, and also think about
how they run their board to make them more inclusive.
Steve
Macaulay
If we look at the next edition of your book, what would you hope
would change during that period?
Well, of course, obviously with the recession now, the whole credit
Sue
Vinnicombe crisis, I think has prompted many businesses to radically and
fundamentally rethink how they run. And in fact that is quite
interesting.
One of the areas where we are doing work is Iceland and they
have gone almost beyond diversity because over there the country
was virtually bankrupt, a number of the boards in the banking
sector have not only become much more aware of gender
diversity, but they have actually almost completely disbanded their
boards, reconstituted them with a more diverse board, but also
have actually said we have got to tear up the old rule book and
really think afresh. And it is very interesting, the evidence we
have of these new boards is actually showing quite a different way
of thinking; a real acknowledgement of breaking with the past and
thinking about new ways of managing the business. So I think
that is really refreshing.
Steve
Macaulay
On that note, we will end. Thank you very much indeed.
Thank you very much.
Sue
Vinnicombe
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