STATE
OF
ILLINOIS
SS
COUNTY
OF
DU
IN
THE
FOR
PAGE
CIRCUIT COURT OF DU PAGE COUNTY
EIGHTEENTH
JUDIctL CIRCUIT OF ILLINOIS
THE
THE
PEOPLE OF THE
STATE OF ILLINOIS
Plaintiff
vs
Nos.
hi
STEPHEN
ROLANDO
Li
ALEJANDRO HERNANDEZ
ALEX HERNANDEZ
a/k/a
12
BUCKLEY
CRUZ
CF
84
CF
CF
84
Defendants.
Thursday
1985
21
22
23
24
January
130 oclock
The
resumed
trial of
pursuant
to
the
above-entitled
adjournment.
PRESENT
20
KOWAL
i_
15
19
363-01-12
BEFORE JUDGE
AND
JURY
14
18
3610112
3620112
and
13
16
84
MR.
KNIGHT
MR.
KING
MR.
JOHNSON
MR.
LUND
MR.
WESOLOWSKI
MR.
LAZ.
ERNEST
C.
SCOLA
Official Court Reporter
Illinois
Wheaton
cause
31
p.m.
44
ROBERT
called
witness
as
Illinois having
testified
and
WINKLER
The
by
been
People
first duly
DIRECT
by
And what
10
11
DuPage
with
the
14
A.
name
your
sir
please
W-i-nk-l-e--r.
your occupation
or
profession
June
19
at
what
that
20
commander
County
second
watch
Center.
long have
you been
Sheriffs
associated
Office
years.
Back
18
how
for
DuPage
17
were
in
May
and
June
your duties
and
of
1984
last
May
and
responsibilities
time
A.
time
was
referred
carried
the
same
At that
to
as
duties
as
superintendent.
22
Im
23
24
is
Correction
County
And
16
21
examined
Knight
Winkler
L.
watch
am
A.
14
15
was
air
12
13
sworn
State of
EXAMINATION
Mr.
you tell us
Robert
Lt.
A.
the
follows
as
Would
of
from
300
until
in
1130
charge
at
of
night.
the
afternoon
do
now.
watch
45
that
Is
back
in May
June
and
That
A.
the
same
time period
that
you worked
or
is
sir.
And
directing
Okay.
conversation
Jail
10
11
A.
my
1984
inmate
an
to
did you have
in the
DuPage
County
Alex Hernandez
name of
Yes
A.
12
with
by the
6th
June
approximately
your attention
sir
did.
And
where
The
conversation itself took
did that
conversation
take
place
in
place
office.
13
Okay.
What
circumstances
15
conversation
if
can
you
led
tell
us
tour
of
to
that
16
was
A.
making
first floor in the
18
was
the
facility on the
area where
receiving
Mr.
Hernandez
housed.
currently
19
Q.
What
A.
He
time
happened
at
that
out
to
me
through
talk
to
me
20
yelled
his door
and
State
21
that
he
would
like
to
as
soon
as
possible
22
alone
in my office.
23
Q.
Okay.
24
Apprently
then
you knew
him at
that
tim
46
as
inmate
an
Correct
A.
And
p.
inmate
who
were
you
known
you ever
in the
No
A.
sir.
sir.
Had
p.
Jail cOrrect
County
knew
he
Yes
A.
an
in the
him before he
became
Jail
County
sir.
Okay.
What
10
you and
said
11
12
wanted
he
Well
A.
told
in
about
10
office
where
called
he
out
to
you
busy
doing
other
we
18
you
talked
20
A.
to
him at
No sir
conversation
23
Q.
when
the
would
back
get
which
officer
to
him
did.
escort
him to
my
conversed.
there
And
anyone
stated
purely between
conversation
what
when
present
wasnt.
Hernandez
about
else
time
that
there
Mr.
this
an
then
Was
19
him
Okay.
p.
24
to
was
minutes
15
or
had
17
22
when
duties.
15
16
talk
to
initially
13
14
did you do
time of
took
place
that
himself
day or
on
June
he
wanted
and
night
6th
myself.
was
it
47
Approximately
A.
630
and
p.m.
p.m.
Would
outset
the
that
of
Yes
A.
tell
you
us
to
best of
the
whether you gave him any
recollection
at
600
between
sir
your
admonishments
conversation
did.
Would
you
Well
when
tell
what
us
transpired
the
at
outset
A.
10
11
room
talk
he
to
first stated
me about
16
not have
to do
stated
talk
by
to
me
Miranda
that
would
which
remain
19
20
21
against
what
he
was
23
going
24
to
have
call before
he
to
advised
him that
did
he
him that
have
to
if
wished
he
him his
give
to
rights
him that
he
did have
the
counsel
even
said
he
that
and
can
his current
case
will be
thats
if
explain.
also
right to
to
him concerning
22
like
silent.
Anything
used
would
he
did.
advised
right to
into the
so.
17
18
that
me
immediately
14
15
to
came
his case.
12
13
Hernandez
Mr.
advised
present
talked
to
him that
and
me
to
also
he
had
the
to
make
either
talk
phone
to
48
friend
or
his
attorney.
went
counsel
if
at
also
line-up and
didnt
he
have
the
through
normal
being
wasnt
any.
having
appointed
counsel
did or
sure if he
not.
then
He
his rights as
acknowledged
given.
Okay.
0.
And
10
11
understood
What
if
12
14
15
stated
circumstances
on
that
18
19
not trust other
to
FBI.
the
case
about
or
Did
talking
the
you
to
to
explain
to
some
myself purely
trust me
he
did not want
involved
or
the
anything
other
people
Wilkosz.
Det.
time that
say
asked
or
the
authorities
Office
22
24
could
he
whom
next and by
time
that
this case
at
States Attorneys
0.
23
said
wished
he
felt
felt
He
20
21
say at
that
he
was
he
to
convey
this information.
16
17
he
surrounding
basis
the
did
that
acknowledged
what
rights
anything
He
P.
13
his
after he
him if he
And
to
he
talk
in
as
wanted
of
such
at
of
the
assigned
particular
inad
either
such
detectives
expressed
to
could
he
to
him
you
as
the
you.
yourself
time that
49
Okay.
p.
But
He
A.
did want
he
did want
to
talk
then told
the
situation
both
the
States Attorneys
through
And
did the
11
even
got into
that
Im
15
busy
didnt want
appreciate
and
if
18
he
to
wanted
How
A.
He
And
that
push
due
to
to
make
would
to
tell
did he
said
clear
1in
and
also
did.
transaction
the
time
that
at
my position
written
lot
come
duties
of
wanted
he
talk
to
--
anything
case
the
out strict
to
me
to
would
to
the
do
point
me anything.
at
that
informed him
time
my duties
on what
that
would
took
you
know
naturally
place
He
--
just
problem.
report
All right.
have
if
before we
concerning
respond
no
fine.
P.
chief
Hernandez
Mr.
him into
he
also
23
which
resume then
20
22
Office
person.
it if
p.
19
21
deputy
conversation
the
my tour.
16
17
would
by
advised
during
him that
Yes.
A.
14
me.
after clearing
conversation
10
13
to
you
to
Okay.
Q.
12
talk
to
have
said
50
And what
He
A.
burglary.
other
in
day
Naperville
this
not
they had
11
model
Lincoln
been
to
with
planning
time
home
65
off Route
two
located
short ways
commit
to
planning
of
day
referring
been
some
the
burglary
proceeded
Continental
Mr.
to
the
Hernandez
late
in
scene
and
named
two
individuals.
12
13
far
was
on
location.
They
10
for
too
that
he
had
invited
then
say
state
February
individuals
from Aurora
at
in
was
He
named
to
proceeded
certain
on
did he
Did
to
he
describe
the
color
of
that
car
at
all
you
14
A.
15
Dark
green
What
if
16
they reached
late
anything
model Lincoln
did he
Continental.
they did when
say
the area of
that
home
stated
when
they got
17
He
A.
that
to
the area
18
they drove
around
19
20
He
wasnt
couldnt really give
He
while.
for
me
stated
on
specific
an
exact
that
the
time.
He
time.
when
it
was
determined
22
that
they were
going
to
go
into this dwelling
23
became
24
Q.
very nervous.
Thats
what
tn
other
he
told
words
you
he
lost
he
his nerve.
51
Thats
A.
what
then
He
individuals
which
incident
from the
that
10
11
12
13
he
not
16
17
that
Continental
then
fruits
of
Did
remembered
items was
to
Mr.
23
24
named
two
vehicle
A.
22
Green
that
with
through
him off
three
the
blocks
then after they
then
he
short while
Lincoln
late
to
individuals
blocks
entered
with
model
his location
the
to
later
Lincoln
again
retrieve
away.
vehicle
little girl on
along
the
later -- againhe
while
the
and
rear seat
several items he
states
crime.
describe
any
of
those
items as he
them
stated
He
white
Coffee
Did
had
named
-- but
three
noticed
immediately
were
go
they did
returned
He
20
21
time
on
the
other
the
this
other
two
to
not
short
him from his location
of
the
dropped
what
say
specific
18
19
they then
he
14
15
wished
he
stated
He
stated
with
told
me
off
him
A.
was
told
dwelling.
Did
dropped
he
that
specifically
automatic
but not
you have
item where
it
coffee
Mr.
any
was
one
maker
of
the
similar
Coffee.
conversation about
located
who
52
indicated
He
A.
that
possessed
but he
refused
pursue
at
that
item and
to
came back
for
was
it
who
where
and
which
now
was
he
did not
any conversation
doing
when
him in this
car
described
He
A.
who
knew
he
time.
little girl was
the
that
me
any further
go
you have
Did
Q.
to
he
about
what
saw her when
the
little girl
was
bleeding
they
as obviously
frightened.
10
11
Her
that
pleading
12
13
14
Now
to
what
back
in
What
they brought
he
He
A.
21
22
where
he
could
you
tell
the
repeat
did he
anything
little girl back
c.
that
with
continued
to
the
states these
him off at
at
if
the
back
proceeded
23
24
did he
you next
as
little girl
question
the
tell you after
in
car where
the
was
19
20
-- what
was
she
home.
go
after they brought
Im sorry
16
to
and
car
the
A.
18
wanted
did he
happened
15
17
she
lip
the
house
According
timedid
he
Aurora
two
at
to
see
the
area to
named
his
what
the
fact
they
his residence
individuals
house
he
that
was
and
dropped
then
telling
left.
you
little girl again
at
any
53
that
time after
as
A.
He
stated
Q.
Is
that
no
he
inmate
Alex Hernandez
had
that
present
not.
referred
you
here
in
to
this courtroom
today
Yes
A.
Can
10
of
referring
to
11
13
14
desk
blue
17
the
directly
in
describe
wearing
jury know
front of
suit light blue
MR.
reflect
who
hevs
the
on
bench
the
ladies
the
is you
it
with
tie
so
the
where
and
are
left front
wearing
the
dark
stripes
KNIGHT
the
Your
Honor
identification
of
may the
the
record
defendant
Alejandro
Hernandez
18
19
hes
what
him
to
hair.
15
16
is.
From my location
A.
12
he
you point
hes sitting
gentlemen
sir
THE
BY
MR.
COURT
The
record may
so
show
identification.
KNIGHT
20
week
Approximately
21
22
23
did you have
another
occasion
inmate by
the
to
have
name
Cruz
24
A.
Yes
sir
did.
of
or
ten
days earlier
conversation
Ronnie
Cruz
with
or
Rolando
54
Do
remember
you
the
exact
date
that
of
conversation
it was
.i.
im
not
certain
And
conversation
10
12
can
that
Mr.
it
was
to
go
you had
with
15
another
one
16
was
There
Q.
Okay.
had
was
just called
now
about
was
night
that
one
700
7200
around
what
led
to
that
to
he
speak
with
termed
he
me
was
that
about
the
only
what
one
or
the
second
to
you
did you
the
conversation
case
after
or
was
that
there
that
day prior.
conversation
then
what
talking
do when
you were
he
asked
to
that
see
time
22
A.
24
as
before
This
that
and
that
either
18
23
requested
him concerning
A.
17
21
evening
the
or
itself.
off.
14
20
day
days
ten
evening
Cruz
And
he
time of
you tell us
very urgent1
13
19
in
date
the
on
or
evening.
Q.
11
wh
was
It
A.
the
exactly
About
Q.
week
approximately
Well
again when
indicated
that
he
wanted
reference
this
case.
to
spoke
tell me
with
him
he
information
you
in
55
And
rights
just
had
as
done
and
this time
But
and
busy
did
he
the
told
that
if
wanted
with
it
my deputy
again
talk
to
his
Hernandez.
Mr.
Office.
was
me
to
wanted him to
prior
day
that
him
he
him of
States Attorneys
the
through
with
cleared
Again
chief
admonished
again
extremely
such
get to
as
the
point.
Q.
Was
A.
Yeah.
10
11
12
14
15
16
did
him you wanted
He
A.
And
me
wanted
he
the
that
it
day
17
said
to
when
respond
get
tell me
you told
to
the
He
understood
that
wanted
what
me
this
point
to
his
he
just
time
rights.
had
forget
told
about
it
Okay.
Wiat
19
Well
A.
20
guess
talk
to
Ill
me
did you
told
forget
about
22
23
before
day
lengthy.
fine.
he
the
happened.
18
21
he
him to
prior
never
was
It
What
13
long conversation
it
say
him
about
it.
to
said well okay
What
says well
want
truth today.
Q.
do you want
fine.
to
today
He
24
that
And what
did he
say
then
to
tell you
the
56
one
stated
He
A.
day
in February
his asked
him if
burglary
be
he
that
didnt
of
involved
want
like
in
to
if
12
assist them
they could
13
15
All
Q.
18
19
telling
what
did
he
said no
he
him that
borrow
he
they had
they would
vehicle
his
to
use
felony.
stated
of
he
would
vehicle.
Then
However
no.
hot wire
to
tell you
vehicle
that
thats
to
use.
what
he
did
to
what
he
did.
right.
after
he
according
them
how
to
showed
was
say
the
The
stated
as
he
to
have
sex
named
wire
hot
next contact
two
with
individuals
days
he
was
vehicle
had
with
these
And
he
wasn
into
later and
then
him
approached
asked
him if he
wanted
little girl.
23
24
in
individuals
A.
22
you
And
approached
friends of
some
vehicleand
this
he
And
20
21
of
sir
16
17
was
involved
be
it.
have
in how
he
Yes
A.
to
gain possession
Did
14
that
they told
And
then
and
they could
the commission
10
11
83
in
didnt
They
know
day
to.
And
problem.
the
wanted
he
-- he
on
he
that.
said no
he
didnt
want
to
--
57
Did
if
about
tell you
he
what
about
anything
they had
where
told
him
this little girl
was
was
BY
LAZ
THE
COURT
THE
WITNESS
at
MR.
the
he
told
in
that
them
16
Q.
Is
Ronnie
Cruz
A.
18
Q.
20
sitting
are
A.
23
24
the
that
of
one
did he
he
say
point.
little girl
the
named
the
what
individuals.
was
after
happened
didnt want
There
left.
the
or
to
involved
be
further
no
conversation
Can
what
you have
man
Rolando
Cruz
referred
he
is
to
as
inmate
here
present
in
today
Yes
referring
21
22
of
no
that
this courtroom
17
19
this
time.
that
14
15
stated
He
then
They
A.
at
at
object
Overruled.
residence
And
12
13
to
going
KNIGHT
Q.
10
Im
MR.
sir
he
is.
you point
hes
to
wearing
him
so
describe
we
know
where
who
it
hes
is you
to
Hes
light brown
at
the
coat
center
brown
rear counsel
tie
yellow
table
shirt
in
dark
hair.
MR.
KNIGHT
Your
Honor may
the
record
reflect
thE
58
identification
THE
BY
MR.
of
COURT
the
The
record
Cruz
Rolando
defendant
show
may
identification.
KNIGHT
MR.
you
Thank
0.
KNIGHT
sir.
Thats
have
all
on
direct
your
Honor.
10
THE
COURT
MR.
JOHNSON
MR.
LAZ
You
cross examine.
may
No
Judge
sir.
Ill
defer
to
Wesolowski
Mr.
first.
11
THE
COURT
12
All right.
Mr.
Wesolowski
any questions
13
14
CROSS
15
by
16
Lt.
Q.
17
had
been
to
18
you
court
EXAMINATION
Mr.
didnt
19
Did
Q.
know
several
Youre asking
you know
Wesolowski
that
times
me if
that
in
the
defendants
Juneprior
knew
or
June
to
not
Alex Hernandez
had
been
20
to
court
several
times prior to
the
date
of
this
conversation
22
Not
A.
specifically.
dont
keep
track
of
23
inmates
go
to
court.
24
Exactly
what
day was
this
conversation
when