SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and
GOOSE Messaging
IEC61850
Cooper Power Systems
Oong, O’Reilly
Keywords: Estimating, 61850, GOOSE Messaging
1
Abstract Summary
The advent of the 61850 protocol and the tools associated with it, and especially with the use of GOOSE
messaging between relays to replace the hardwiring of protection signals between this equipment has
caused a radical change in the way we have been doing our cost estimating for electrical engineering
projects compared to traditional methods.
In this new area we have to be more network conscious and ensure that we plan our networking
infrastructure more than ever before. This can become the weak part of the whole project and can cause
tremendous problems in the overall performance that is required for such implementations.
This new approach to building our protection and control infrastructure changes in a massive way how we
have been estimating costs and planning the work for our different electrical projects.
Since all of us are measured in terms of performance to quality, budgets and performance to meet our
project dates we have had to come-up with new ways to perform this task and still provide to our
managements the information they require for their planning processes.
In the past we have had ten of years of experience in doing in the old way (hardwiring) but today this has
changed with this new environment, since it is new for the industry very little experience currently exists to
properly work out different schemes for the costing and time estimating for doing an electrical project.
Today we have had to develop new techniques to properly estimate the costs in doing electrical projects
in this new reality. In this paper we will define this new paradigm and give examples on how we are
developing new ways to perform the costing estimates which take into account the shifting of the work
from very manual labour intensive with new systems capable of being more integrated and requiring very
little wiring requirements.
This paper will also present some recent examples of 61850 projects and an overview of how the
evaluations where performed for developing the overall project cost and associated time-lines. We will
also explore what were the results in terms of final cost and the execution time frame compared to the
initial estimates and the experiences that we have been learning from these 61850 implementations
Page 1 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
2
Our Legacy
The traditional method of implementing and completing a project has not really changed in its basic art for
many years. During this period of time and particularly with the deceasing costs of computing power we
have developed many and sophisticated tools to allow us to perform our engineering work in an efficient
and cost effective manner.
Figure One and Figure Two show examples of traditional panels with copper wiring for most of the
interlocking and protection signals, these are known items which people in the industry have been
working with for many years and understand the wiring approach from a point A to a point B. In these
installation Fibreoptic cable (orange sheath) have been installed for electrical isolation and not data
communication. The work is traditionally done by electrical tradesman.
Figure One – Traditional Panel with copper wiring for interlocking and protection signals
Page 2 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
Figure Two – Traditional panel with copper wiring for interlocking and protection signals
Over the years as the engineering tools have become more sophisticated they have evolved from hand
drawn sketches, to basic wiring diagrams to database driven complete systems providing an integrated
information environment of cable schedules, wiring details for control panels to pre-commissioning check
sheets for Factory Acceptance Tests to commissioning and Site Acceptance Tests.
Page 3 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
Figure Three – Example of a database of engineering information
Figure Four – Example of output of database used in Factory Acceptance Testing
Figure Three show an example of an engineering database and Figure Four 4 shows the output in the
form of a query. These integrated engineering tools have provided the required information to the
different teams working on the project, thus allowing an easier integrated environment while reducing at
the same time the cost for the overall project because of the easy and accurate exchange of information.
Page 4 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
3
Today
Today we are in a period of transition.
We know that 61850 will not go away; hence we have to work at refining our different tools required to
properly plan and execute these new types of projects, and ensure that we will provide the right
information to our senior management to help them in their initial decision making, budgeting process and
provide suitable information in the management and delivery of the project.
Some elements of the project are relatively easy to adapt to. For example Figure Four show a typical
61850 Panel during a Factory Acceptance Test. There is a substantial reduction in wiring as the
traditional point to point wiring for interlocking and protection signals are sent via fibre optic cable. The
traditional panel power distribution is still required. Figure Four is of two bays that are completely 61850.
In this approach the bay controllers are being used to perform interlocking with information being received
from the different protection relays and hardware Input / Output devices receiving different contact
information. In this project process bus has not been implemented however has been allowed for tine the
overall architecture.
Figure Four – Example of a 61850 Panel during a Factory Acceptance Test
Page 5 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
What we have seen is that 61850 combined with modern relays provide a new and large quantity of
information that we could not imagine just a few years ago. Now we must learn to work and use this new
hefty data information warehouse but also to use it in an overall strategic approach, otherwise this wealth
of information will be lost or we will not be extracting the potential value with the systems we are working
with.
A key element in our overall strategy of integrating information is that we do want to make it available to
other systems but we also want to know who will be using it (the goal of providing any information is to
understand who will be using the information and for what purposes then it is useful).
Within this new framework of information, the overall approach to providing information via 61850 from
the substation to control centers is not totally defined; a number of utilities are still partially using some of
their old software tools. These Tools where not conceived to properly provide the correct information in a
complete 61850 compliant environment and we do not have the fully integrated Engineering Tools
equivalent to the existing engineering tools that have been developed over many years.
4
Our Challenges In Properly Evaluating Costs
In this environment of transition a significant challenge is how do you properly evaluate costs when
developing the business case for a project. The traditional tools of using spreadsheets, defining work
breakdown structure, defining assumptions and estimating costs is still valid. The new paradigm is the
changing of areas in the work breakdown structure and how we define some of the assumptions when
developing the cost model.
At this point in time multi-IED vendor fully integrated engineering tools do not exist so substantial potential
engineering savings from these tools cannot be quantified.
Some of the key issues that need to be considered are:
4.1
Panel Design and Implementation
We can easily understand that there is a significant reduction in common drawings as required for the
design, manufacture and testing of the panels.
This is visually shown when comparing Figures Two showing a traditional panel with copper wiring for
interlocking and protection signals and Figure Four of a 61850 Panel during a Factory Acceptance Test.
Review of a number of recent projects shows that there are savings in the area of 30 % reduction in
engineering time
Page 6 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
4.2
Documentation
Even though there is substantial reduction in the costs and resources to produce the Panels there is a
requirement to have documentation that effectively replaces Input / Output lists. We are seeing a
requirement for a different set of information to allow easy testing and troubleshooting in this new
environment.
To properly document this set of information represents an increase in approximately 10 to 15% of the
allotted engineering time
4.3
Skill Set
The major change in adopting 61850 is the change in skill set that is now required. We are evolving from
tradesmen that have worked with hard-wiring of devices and now we are migrating to a more network and
system environment. People require greater knowledge of networking infrastructures and the application
of Virtual LAN’s are becoming mandatory.
A typical example of the changes in skill-set is where the change from hardwiring to GOOSE messaging
for interlocking and tripping is occurring. The skill set involved has changed from working with an Input
Out put list to now be able to set-up and configure networks and Virtual – LAN’s. Typically the protection
engineer is performing most of the work while setting-up the protection relays with the messaging
requirements.
There are a number of approaches to acquire this knowledge such as hire people with appropriate
experience (which is at a premium to traditional people) or train and up skill our existing workforce.
In general what we are also seeing from a work force point of view, is the increase in labour costs due to
the high skill set now required for these new types of systems; this does not time impact the project
timeline, but increases the cost of the overall project because of the type of personnel required.
4.4
Factory Acceptance Testing
In this new environment the Factory Acceptance testing has been more rigorous and in some cases
repeated to ensure confidence in the implementation
What we are seeing is the increase in the time being expensed in Factory Acceptance Test has increased
by 15 to 40% depending on the size of the project (i.e. number of I.E.D.s being integrated using 61850
and depending on the level of use of GOOSE messaging).
4.5
Site Acceptance Testing
Because of the nature of this new environment, currently we are seeing an increase in the time required
for the Site Acceptance Test’s by approximately 15 to 20%.
Page 7 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
5
Estimating Tools
In the development of Project Estimating Tools that cater for the substantial variations of the different
projects, we have used a mix from the older approaches within a context based on a networking
infrastructure approach.
This has provided us with at least a planned budget for the unforeseen surprises these types of systems
will provide. We have performed better than the some of the system integrators that we have referenced
above in regards to the project overruns because of the different situations due to 61850.
The development of new estimating tools is more demanding than first anticipated. Drivers include
variations due to interactions between the different types of devices communicating within a 61850
application environment and the scope and breadth of projects.
We know the rules and the general guidelines but the integrated estimating portion is not has easy as one
would think!!!!
6
Conclusion
In general the goal of 61850 was to simplify our overall engineering approach and indirectly potentially
reduce the project costs. Since this is a new approach currently the cost saving have not been
substantiated in the projects that the authors have seen to date.
This is due mostly to the fact that this whole environment is new and no chances are being taken hence
large amounts of time are being used in the testing of these new systems before putting them on-line to
ensure that no surprises will happen.
When more tools become available and that the engineering management has more experience and feels
more confident with the overall technology, it is more than probable that the cost will then become lower
and bring with it the promise of this new environment of being self documenting and providing all of the
configuration for the IED’s in an easy and integrated environment.
Page 8 of 9
M. Oong, R. O'Reilly - Cooper Power Systems - Estimating of Engineering Costs When using 61850 and Goose Messaging.doc
SEAPAC 2009
CIGRE Australia Panel B5
Melbourne 17 – 18 March
Estimating of Engineering Costs When Using 61850 and GOOSE Messaging
Oong, O'Reilly, O’Reilly
7
Biography
Matthew Oong
Matthew Oong has been involved in Power Distribution and Industrial Automation for more than 25 years.
His initial training was with the former Sydney County Council’s Test Branch, where he undertook the
Electrical Engineering Certificate and Bachelor of Engineering (Electrical). Has had broad practical
experience with Rolls Royce Industrial Power as a Commissioning Engineer, Design Engineer and
Project Manager before moving into Sales Management roles at Rolls Royce, Siemens and Otis
Elevators. At Cooper Power Systems Mr. Oong is responsible for Energy Automation business
development in Australia and New Zealand.
Email Address: matthew.oong@cooperindustries.com
Robert O’Reilly
Robert O’ Reilly has been involved in the development of different technological applications in numerous
industries for more than 35 years with 20 of these years within the power industry. During this period he
has participated in the writing of more than 25 technical papers, ranging from applications in different
industrial sectors in regards to automation, control and protection systems. Mr. O’ Reilly has also been
guest speaker for numerous engagements with universities and graduate level conferences, including
key-note speeches at international conferences. He has also produced a number of articles for different
technological magazines for the energy industries among others.
Email: robert.oreilly@cybectec.com
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