NATIONAL LOGISTICS WORKSHOP
RENO, NV MARCH 17-21 2008
COMMUNICATIONS BREAKOUT NOTES
1. INTERFERENCE ISSUES
 When working in Southern California - Expect
interference issues. Specially when working in the
San Diego Area or near the border
 Use the tone that was given to you by the CDO to
protect your repeater
2. WHEN IS A COMC ACTIVATED?
 What is the trigger point?
o Should be activated when 2 incidents are
occurring within a 100 mile radius
Requesting for a COMC
 Does not come from the incident
 Should be placed from the GACC
 There have been issues with the GACC allowing a
request for a COMC or initiating the request
 Suggestion was made to advise the GACC of
previous issues in the area
 Because there is a delay in the ordering, the COMC
is usually behind the 8 ball when arriving. Spend
most of the time trying to catch up and figure out
what has been done so far
 Getting COMC’s requested early on is getting better
and helping out a lot
 COML and tech staff know how to build a system
 Don’t go overboard when ordering tacs
 Discussion as to having NIFC help build your system
o NIFC doesn’t have time
Use local COMT assistance
o Find a COMT with local area knowledge
o Get a local COMT assigned to the incident
3. CAT TEAMS IN REGION 3
o 2 COMT or COML
o They work for the GACC not the fire
o Usually only have a 72 hour commitment. To support
the COML with phones, radio etc in the initial stages
o Most of the incidents the CAT teams are there before
the COML and can start getting things set up
o May come with a starter kit or may need to pick it up
at the airport
o Original order has to come from the GACC
o Orders for these CAT teams automatically go out
when a type 1 or type 2 fire occur
4. COMT
MULTI-Tasking
o Within the incident
o Data
o Satellite
o No longer just Radios(COMT, RADT, DATT)
5. WHEN ORDERS ARE BEING PLACED
o Local resources are not always being considered
because of the portal to portal issues
o Fed. side is usually shopped even though the person
would come from out of another state
o How many are qualified vs. how many are really available
6. NIFC – Roving COMT’s are available to be ordered
o Notify the CDO and keep them in the loop and
aware of who is available
7. RADIOS ARE GOING BACK TO S NUMBERS INSTEAD OF E
NUMBERS AT THE END OF THE 2008 FIRE SEASON
8. CALIFONIA FIRE CHIEFS COMMUNICATIONS SECTION
 All risk communications teams
9. SELF STATUSING IN ROSS
o Should people be allowed to self status?
10. Are COMT’s supposed to be taking I-700 and I-800?
o not for a fire incident
o but yes for an all risk
11. DEMOB - When going down to a lesser team
 Do the on coming users understand what equipment is in
place?
 Do the on-coming users know how to use the system you
built?
 Is the team going to transition back into local frequencies
PROPER WAY TO DEMOB EQUIPMENT AND PERSONNEL
o Notify using a 213 of excess personnel and equipment
o Logistics Section Chief
o Demob
o Ordering Manager
12. NEED TO DEVELOP CONTRACT EQUIPMENT SPECS.
 Portable radios
13. FIRESCOPE PRESENTATION (view CD that was handed out)
14. OUTREACH
COML Workshops
o 205 revisions (16 and 20 channel plan)
o Bringing people up to speed on the available
technology
INCIDENT COMMUNICATIONS SUMMIT
o Local government perspective to give people a way
in. Letting them know how the system works
15. INCIDENT DISPATCHER VS. RADO
 Knowledgeable personnel/advanced
through INDI’s
16. GATEWAYS
 Can cause a lot of interference from people
that do not know how to use them
17. NIMS ALL HAZZARD COML
 Call Chris Sutter’s if you would like a copy of his
presentation
18. USE OF UNAUTHORIZED TACTICAL NETS
 Discussion of possible ramifications if Tac Nets are
used without permission
o Getting sent home?
 The problem is, at this time there really is nothing that
can be done if someone chooses to use
unauthorized frequencies
 Federal Frequencies are assigned by the CDO
 CA/State Freq are assigned by the Cal Fire Freq.
Coord.
o Assigned by No. Ops or So. Ops
o 916-327-8652
o Email original 205 and when changes are
made to com205@fire.ca.gov
19. CURRENCY REQUIREMNTS
 Revise CICCS 310-1, to state 3 years instead of 5
years until a COML gets signed off
20. ORDERING PROCESS (ROSS/LOCAL GOVT)
 Portal to Portal vs. personnel from east coast
21. INCIDENT DISPATCHER TRAINING PROGRAM
o There is a need for Incident Dispatchers that have Public
Safety Dispatcher experience
o Incident dispatchers are qualified to ICS 200
22. NIFC PRESENTATION
o KING Radios in use by NIFC
o EPH
o DPH
o RAYCAL (May still see some)
o Daytrons (May still see some)
 STARTER KITS (4390/7390)
 2 systems per cache (except in California)
 Discussion about the possibility of adding a
couple of repeaters
 7390’s are going away – all of them are
becoming 4390’s
 Becoming part of the National Caches
 Supposedly we will not be seeing the 7390’s on
the fire line this year, however, there may be
some that still make it out
 4390’S (W/ UHF Links) and 7390’s (w/o UHF Links)
 At present time there are (7) 7390 Starter Kits
which are being replaced w/ 4390 Kits
4390 Kits
 Pre-positioned in Redding and Ontario
 Discussion if it is possible in ROSS to indicate if it is C1,
C2, C3, C4, C5
 Confirmed that there is a note that indicates what
channel they are once they are assigned
 Tone Protection (Call the CDO – they will assign the
tones)
 Command Repeaters are now toned
 Transmit and Receive are also toned
 All tones will be listed on the hot sheets
UHF LINKS
 All Freq’s have been changed
 Command has 1 set of Frequencies
 Aircraft has another set
 Links are not Narrow banded as of yet, there is no
exact time line as to when this will occur
23. COML/COMT REFRESHER
 Designed for people who haven’t been out in a
couple of years
 To familiarize people with new equipment that is
available
24. DEVELOP A STANDARD WAY OF DOING BUSINESS
 Suggestion was made to keep a binder organized by
date of what has happened, all documentation. It’s
clean, organized and easy for anyone to go back and
see what has occurred throughout the incident. Place
additional copies of important documents in the front.
o Keeping a hard copy as well as electronic version
are possibilities
 Discussion of a Transition Packet
o Minimum List of items that should be included
o Additional items that are optional but might be
considered
 Rich Rusk (NLW Advisory Group Leader) advised if this
goes nationally that it has to be sent thru NWCG
THINGS TO CONSIDER SUPPLYING FOR TRANSITION BOOK
 Communication Unit Set Up
 Standardization of documentation
 Posting information
 Ordering – Get out equipment
 Maps of the area
 Repeater sites
o Locations
o Local Comm Techs contact numbers
o Previous history of use in the area
o Local Hamm Operators
o Topo Maps
o Google Earth
 Cell Phones availability in use/assigned
 Vehicles Assigned to the Comm Unit
 Repeater System Diagram (send to the CDO)
 Current and past 205’s
 Orders in ROSS (Outstanding orders, Current Orders)
 Equipment assigned (what has been assigned to the
incident, what is the incident vs. what needs to be
returned, where does it get returned to?)
o Radios and Repeaters
o Computers
o Office Equipment
 Battery Matrix
o When batteries need to be changed
o What batteries are on order
 Personnel
o Time left for assignment
o Other quals
o Relief coming or ordered
 Org Chart
 IAP’s Past and Previous
 213’s
 Contact List
 Phone Lists
o All inclusive
o Emergency contact
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Gate Codes
Roads to Avoid
GPS Locations
Write a transition plan. Make sure that it contains
items that are still outstanding
25. EQUIPMENT TRACKING PROGRAM
o Jose form NIFC developed a computer based
program. Would like to incorporate it as a standard.
26. 214’s - Need to get into the habit of documenting
o Creation of one for the Communications Unit
o COML should assign COMM Unit 214 to be handled
by the INCM (if there is one assigned)
o Remember to complete a 214 for yourself also.
o All personnel assigned to the Communications unit
should fill out a 214 for themselves
27. ACCOUNTABILITY
o Suggestion of BAR CODE’s and Readers
o People
 Have Certs and Quals listed
o Equipment
CLAM SHELLS/WHIP ANTENNAS/MIC’S
o Approximate Cost of each Clam Shell is $25.00
o NIFC does not want Broken Mic’s back. The want
used ones, just not broken ones. The are not worth
replacing
o Don’t hand out Whip Antennas to everyone that
asks
o Too many are being given out without any
accountability
o Replacement Suggestions
o If someone comes to the Comm Unit with a
broken one / Replace it. DO NOT have the
person get an S number from Ordering. Get
them the items they need now on the incident.
o Have the requesting person fill out a general
message form with a name, agency and
contact #. May cut down multiple requests for
ClamShells for no reason other then “what Stuff
can I get” Shopping
o If you open up a Cache box is it $600.00 to
rehab – even if anything is still in it
28. STANDARDIZED INFORMATION THAT IS ON T-CARDS
What information should be added to a T-card to assist with
accountability for radios and issued equipment?
o Have samples available at radio check out/in table
o Make sure that Comm. Unit personnel fill out the T-cards to
ensure that they are legible and have all requested
information:
o Order #
o Cell #
o First Name, Last Name
o Position on incident
o Home Unit/town
o Home Unit/town phone
o Drivers License Number - there was extensive discussion
about putting the Drivers Lic. number on the cards.
Remember, you are giving someone a $ 1,500.00 radio
in the hope of them returning it. TAKE THE
INFORMATION! Taking into consideration that this
information should be kept confidential.
o Drivers Lic. Numbers can be very helpful in
providing Law enforcement a tool in locating and
recovering equipment that has not been returned
o Another suggestion was made that once the
radio was returned, the portion of the T-card that
contained the Drivers License would then be torn
off, signed by a person assigned to the
Communications Unit and handed back to the
person as a receipt of sorts
29. BATTERIES
The ordering and placement of batteries varies from team
to team. Arguments were made from both sides as to
where batteries should be kept, either in the
Communications Unit or in Supply. Talk with the SUPL and
get a consensus.
o A supply of batteries should be left in the
communications unit to allow for accountability
o Additional batteries should also be left in supply so
that the crews/equip etc. do not have to make
multiple stops when coming in from or going out on
the line.
o Standing order in Supply to maintain certain # of
batteries. (ordered by the communications unit) As
batteries are issued by the communications unit,
they can then be topped off again daily
30. NARROW BANDING MIGRATION PLAN
No discussion
31. PREORDERS
Phone Lines?
32. INTERNET CONNECTIVITY
o Get with CTSP and figure out a plan
33. DISCUSSION POINT
There is some discussion that Communications may
become part of General Staff
o This point was pretty much shot down as to not mess
up NWCG guidelines
34. DGS TECH’s
o Available for call out with in California at this time
o CAL FIRE employee
o WILL be assigned when a CAL FIRE COMM. Unit
is assigned
o Mostly in Southern California
o Get paid Portal to Portal
o Trainee’s (DGST-t) go out with every call out
Trainee’s are not charged to the incident
o Discussion about the trainee’s having a
Request # for accountability and how that
would work no paperwork was submitted
o FC33’s are filled out by the trainee but not
turned in
o Trained in Fire Line Safety, shelter deployment
o Have taken ICS 100, 200, 700, 800
o Trained and certified in anything that a COML
might need
o Employees take the class and must
demonstrate capability.
o CDF position in ROSS “DGST”
o The link to this request is through the GAC
DGS Techs are certified and /or proficient in the following:
o RAWS Weather stations
o Flying in Helicopters
o Come with 4 wheel drive vehicles
o Certified Tower Climbers
o Proficient in setting up private satellites
o Come with their own equipment
o Incinet
o Radio RF
o VOIP
o Data
o OES Oasis Trailer
o Fixed sites
o Telephones
o Satellites
DISCUSSION
DGST should be made into a National Standard
o How do we take this forward from the Group and
make it a standard
35. CESRS California Emergency Services Radio System
Previous California TRAVEL NET
IS NO LONGER TO BE USED
o Simplex Freq (Burst Tone)
 R 153.755 (authorized as a Travel Freq
already)
o Repeated Freq
 T 154.980 (NOT authorized for use yet
o No Tones have been assigned
36. COMPUTER INPUT TO ALL INCIDENT RADIOS
(ALPHANUMERICS) VS. CHANNEL NAMES
o Safety concern of relying on names instead of
channel numbers
37. INCIDENT COMMUNICATIONS TRAILERS
 Is typing of trailers needed?
 What is needed in a communications trailer?
 Do we break it down to the fire types? (type 2 or
type 1 teams)
You are paying for a lot of things that you don’t need
There has been a lot of success with office trailers - at a
much lower cost. Is this where you want to be?
Problems arise with not using communications vans that
are specifically designed for communications.
 Noise Problems
o If you cannot hear the radio because the wind,
generator or for whatever reason it is a safety hazard
 Setting up antenna farms - and purchasing all of the
things that are needed
 Clocks, paper, printers, copiers, computers, pens vs. what
comes in one of these communications vans that have
everything in them
What is needed for an operational environment?
Look at the Law enforcement agencies - a lot of them have
very nice trailers that have already been paid for by a grant.
OES already types the communications vans
Maybe NIFC needs to look at more communications support
equipment
On a Type 1incident - what might be needed?
On a type 2 incident - what might be needed?
Brainstorming
 Quiet area - quiet area protected from the environment
 Environmentally controlled AC, heat
 Quality chairs
 Sleepers – bunks in the back. Keeping the COML close
 Computers
 Printers (all-in-one)
 Fax machine
 Phones
 Office supplies (pens, paper, markers, erasers, tape, white
boards)
 Note book
 Uninterrupted power supply
 Common use radios
 Step ladders
 Tables for outside
 Adequate lighting of outside
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Radios (standardized radio functionality)
Support tech
Divided rooms
Ready for deployment
Internet access (cable connection vs wireless)
38. USE OF NON PUBLIC SAFETY RADIOS
 It is because of being in their comfort zone.
 Revert to what you are trained to do. Never goes out on
the tac radios
 Need a freq to communicate on because the TAC is just
too busy
 Don’t have enough freq. or radios to hand out logistical
frequencies for every crew, division etc out there
 When crews are on their own frequencies - you cannot
get them on the frequencies to even be able to reach
them
39. CONTRACTORS
o Need to bring a narrow band radio
Indicate it on their 213 evaluation if they don’t have
it
How are we going to start dealing with it?
 Educate the inspectors of what is acceptable or not
 Has to be sent to the to contracting officer so they are
aware that there is a problem and their radio cannot be
programmed
 Send out a spec. sheet on what is mandated
 Send them to the local forest to have their radio checked
out
 Needs to be a NIFC approved fire service radio
 Cost – should you issue them a radio out of the cache
and charge them?
 Local EERA agreement may be different and might not
require them to come with their own radio
 Does the Comm. Unit supply the contactors with
batteries?
 Do we supply them with radios if they come with the
wrong radios or if their radio breaks?
o Consensus was NO. That it is part of the contract
that they supply their own radio
40. COMC AND COML
o What level of expectation is for communications
Daily contact
o How often do you need to be communicating with
them
As a COMC, what is expected of them?
 What is the trigger point
 Needs to happen early
 Are there any areas that the COMC’s are not meeting the
needs in those in the field
 If you are starting to get radio interference - depending
on your level of experience you may not need a COMC
to figure it out for you. However COMC’s have a larger
picture of what is occurring around them. COML’s are
busy on the ground and can miss something
 COMC’s can get contacts
right here right now
41. VERIZON WIRELESS INTERFERENCE
 Generating RF interference
 Coming into the radio off the T1line
42. TECHNOLOGY
Master X programming plug is available from Silverado Avionics
707-255-5588 for approx $170 can program everything except
the DPH Commander
Racal is coming out with a new radio
Racal software is available on their website
GPS LOCATIONS
 GPS speaker mic by Infinity Radio ($ 400.00)
o Every time you transmit it will get a small burst and
transmit to other speaker mics or receiver
o FSK analog burst - can go thru a repeater
One transmission on a radio that pin points a location of a crew
that is involved in a burn over could be a real asset
ITEMS THAT WE ARE PUSHING FORWARD
TO THE NLW WORKING GROUP
1. Revising the Currency Requirements for
COML
2. Minimum standards for Communication
Units
3. Standardized T-Cards
4. Standardized Communications Unit Leader
Transition Book
 Highlighted areas are items to be brought forward
 There will be APPENDIXES for items that need them
 Pictures of items in question will be available also
If there is a certain item you want some clarification on, make
sure you reference that item number in your remarks. WE, I say
WE as if I have a mouse in my pocket, will TRY to answer the
question as best WE can.
It was a pleasure to put together this workshop and even a
better pleasure to see all that attended, both in the classroom
and on the conference call.
Ideas for next workshop are always in line and accepted
(unless they come from a certain Southern Cal. Fire Dept. then I
will discard them)
Sincerely
Chairman Rick Smith
Co-Chairman Kody Kerwin
Secretary/Scribe
Kelly Dwyer