National Logistics Workshop
SPUL Breakout Session
Issues
1. Incident Replacement of Standard (Cache-supplied) items vs. Non-Standard
(Specialty) items.
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Use AD-112 to document lost, broken, unserviceable equipment (both
standard and non-standard. It’s felt that using some sort of required
documentation puts more responsibility on the individual making the
request.
Need a letter, memo, or some form of documentation in support of the
claim from the appropriate DIVS or Operations Section Chief.
If standard cache-supplied items, then replace in kind from existing
supplies or forward the request to the servicing Cache to fill.
Recommend NOT approving pre-typed incident replacement requisitions
for items not lost, damaged, or destroyed on the current incident.
Also recommend asking for the damaged equipment or item to be
displayed and turned in (along with proof that the damage/loss occurred
while working on the current incident.
It is highly recommended that Logistics Chiefs and Incident Commanders
make the resolution of these types of questions the subject of a discussion
with the local Agency Administrator during or immediately after the inbriefing. The methods of resolving these types of claims might be
included in the delegation of authority to the IC.
2. ID/Smart Card to increase accountability for supplies/meals, and to help identify
appropriate personnel are in camp.
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Can be a universal tool for teams.
How can it be implemented ($$ - by buying teams, host units, who keeps)
How would the team go about purchasing the necessary hardware and
software to use, and keep the equipment for subsequent fires.
Sensitive equipment needs dust-free environment for storage.
Decision made in 2004 to NOT buy equipment and store in Caches.
Felt that savings in meals consumed by unauthorized people and in supply
accountability may pay for implementation on an incident.
Costs for the ID badge equipment is about $3,000 to $4,500 per unit.
3. “CARE AND FEEDING OF MARK III PUMPS”
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Northern Region Cache has developed a Powerpoint slide show that
illustrates what happens when gas and oil is mixed incorrectly or not at all
– and illustrates proper handling. We will make that available on the
Logistics website – www.fs.fed.us/logistics for those that are
interested.
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Many pumps destroyed last season – presumed to be by using fuel with
incorrect fuel/oil mixture, or no mixture in the gasoline at all.
Possible solution last season by one Cache was to tape container of oil to
the handle of the gas can. The can came back empty with the oil still
taped to the handle.
Suggestion made to include bilingual mix ratio and instructions with pump
and fuel cans.
Observation that DIVS is responsible for the pumps checked out directly
to them or that are within their Division when they take over. They should
be checking to make sure people know what they are doing before
assigning them to use a pump that costs roughly $3,000 to $3,500.
Each Region/Cache has some different mix ratios that are used – mainly
due to elevation differences. Get in touch with them to obtain the correct
mix ratio that they recommend in their area.
Can include the recommended mix ratio in the daily IAP.
Can we include pump operations/fueling in annual refreshers?
Should it be required as part of the task accomplishment of someone
qualifying as FFT1?
Operations needs to reinforce the need for qualified people to run pumps
and the need for proper refueling with correct mixture.
People need ACTUAL experience with a Mark III – not just classroom
instruction. They need to have actually started one, done a hose lay,
mixed the oil, and pumped water. Ideally, this should be in a field setting
– perhaps during basic fire school.
Observation that those not fueling these pumps correctly are probably not
our engine crews or our full-time firefighters. It’s probably the militia or
some of our visiting Type 2 crews from outside our area.
Certification for pump operators was discussed. Hard to do. Have plenty
of certification programs already.
Key, as always, is COMMUNICATION, COMMUNICATION, and
COMMUNICATION!!!
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4. Supply Orders
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Need a STRONG communication link between the ICP, Expanded
Dispatch, and the Cache.
Dispatch needs to maintain “paper” skills for when ROSS may be down –
need to keep the supply lines moving.
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Most places OK direct ordering of Cache items from the local, servicing
Cache. Needs to be agreed on by Expanded, ICP Supply, and Cache.
Even when ordering through Expanded Dispatch send a courtesy copy (cc)
to the Cache. This is a good backup and good communication. If ordering
directly from the Cache, send the cc to Dispatch.
Don’t burn your bridges with Expanded.
What are the respective roles/duties of both the IMT and Expanded
Dispatch?
Need to clearly define expectations in face-to-face meeting following
briefing. Get to know your counterparts in Expanded.
Face-to-face meetings every couple of days. If not possible, then phone
calls – maybe every day at pre-arranged time. “How are things going?”
“What can I do to make things run smoothly?”
Remember – we are working FOR the host agency.
Deal with issues quickly. Coordinate and Communicate.
Elevate issues that we can’t fix – and do it soon. Don’t let problems
mount up.
Suggestions for helping make things run smoothly:
1. Ask to place a Buying Team Member in Supply to work directly
with ORDM. This has been tried and worked very well.
2. Send an ORDM in to work with the Buying Team on their “turf”.
3. Invite the Buying Team members to visit ICP – show them your
camp, help them get a feel for what you are asking them to
support.
4. Invite Buying Teams to attend and participate in Logistics
Workshop at a future date.
5. Include co-located workshop with Buying Team, Expanded
Dispatch, Operations, Cache Managers, other Section Chiefs,
Hotshots, Finance, etc.
5. Purchase vs. Rental of Equipment
 Need Agency Administrator/IBA discussion early in incident – probably
after or during the briefing. Might be an item to include in the Letter of
Delegation to the IC.
 Logistics and Finance need to discuss how to analyze and evaluate. Do a
cost evaluation/comparison.
 Work with the Buying Team. Let them in on your discussions.
Remember – they are part of the team working FOR the Agency
Administrator, too.
 If it’s a non-standard item, remember it needs to go to the local unit when
you demob the incident. Use a transfer of property or incident waybill to
document return of this new property or equipment to the local cache.
6. “Market” Logistics to other folks – full-time fire and militia.
 Take trainees – frequently. Encourage people to think about dual
qualifications, ex. Operations and Logistics.
 Put expectation of fire qualifications and supporting fire back into PDs of
ALL employees.
 Liked the idea of 3 years of “conscripted” fire service – whether as militia
or full-time – for each employee.
 One serious issue is the availability of money ($$$) for training and
workshop attendance for militia.
7. Stair vs. Ramps for Supply trailers
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Safety is the issue.
A lot of the stairs supplied with trailers are inadequate for our needs – i.e.
too narrow, stairs not tall enough, too steep, etc.
Have suggested in the past that stairs be put into Cache trailers – maybe a
folding version could be slung underneath, or strapped to the inside of one
of the doors.
Ramps are not supposed to be used for permanent access into and out of
vans. Only meant for unloading and loading. Invariably, these ramps are
the best thing available and are used anyway. There is a hazard here, of
stepping off the ramp while carrying loads, or in the dark.
Camp crews and carpenters are still being tasked to build stairs for these
trailers and for refrigerator vans on a regular basis.
Additional information sources:
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ROSS; http://ross.nwcg.gov
National Logistics website; http://www.fs.fed.us/logistics
Contracting; jvenaglia@fs.fed.us