Closed Session Minutes – Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.
June 24, 2013
Page 1
The City Council of the City of Charlotte met in closed session on Monday June 24, 2013 in room CH-14 of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Government Center at 6:18 p.m. with Mayor
Anthony Foxx presiding.
Present were Councilmembers : John Autry, Michael Barnes, Patrick Cannon, Warren
Cooksey, Andy Dulin, Claire Fallon, David Howard, Patsy Kinsey, James Mitchell, LaWana
Mayfield and Beth Pickering.
Staff present during the Closed Session : Stephanie Kelly, City Clerk; Bob Hagemann, City
Attorney; Ruffin Hall, Assistant City Manager; Ron Kimble, Deputy City Manager; Ron Carlee,
City Manager; Eric Campbell, Assistant City Manager; Julie Burch, Assistant City Manager;
Peter Zeiler (N&BS Economic Development); Pat Mumford, KBE N&BS Strategic Support and
Brad Richardson, Manager, N&BS Economic Development.
Motion was made by Councilmember Mayfield and seconded by Councilmember
Cannon and carried unanimously to adopt a motion pursuant to NCGS 143-318.11(a)(4) to go into closed session to discuss matters relating to the location of an industry or business in the
City of Charlotte, including potential economic development incentives that may be offered in negotiations.
Peter Zeiler, Charlotte N&BS Economic Development said we are here tonight with another business investment program grant opportunity for the City of Charlotte in combination with
Mecklenburg County. This is for a company called Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.; I think you may better know them for their ownership at Carowinds Amusement Park down off of I-77. This one is a little different. It’s outside of the typical parameters of our program. We wanted to make sure that we brought this to you to give you the opportunity to have a full robust discussion on it.
Cedar Fair Southwest is a publically traded company with 11 theme parks with annual revenue of $1.1 billion and over $23 million annual … We have 11 park locations including four that have attendance of more than $3MM per year. Those are actually ranked 14 out of the 20 th th
, 15 th
, 16 th
and 17 th
largest theme parks in the United States. Two are in Ohio, one is in California and one is in Toronto. They own Carowinds as I mentioned earlier. They also own Kings Dominion which is in Richmond Virginia and both of these parks have an annual attendance of right around
$1.9MM annually.
Cedar Fair is looking to establish a large park to push to the 2.5-3 million annual guest range somewhere in the southeast and their target expansions are going to either be Carowinds or
Kings Dominion. If they were to select Carowinds as their large southeast park, the first phase would consist of $43.5MM of investment. The first $30MM of that would be in a new 300 foot tall rollercoaster. For comparison, the Intimidator, which you can see from I-77, is 230 feet.
They would include a $2.5MM water slide, a $7MM food complex and a $4MM ticket booth and parking field improvements. Much of what you will approach and see as you come to Carowinds now, would be completely reconfigured and moved out into where some of their parking field currently is. $33.1MM of this investment will be in Mecklenburg County within the business investment zone. The other $10.4MM will be in York County. Just as a reminder, Carowinds is
398 acres right now between the land they currently own and is undeveloped plus the land that is developed as the park. About 220 acres of that is in South Carolina. The remainder is in North
Carolina.
This map gives you a sense of where the facility would be. The yellow line is the state line between North Carolina and South Carolina and this would be the new rollercoaster feature here.
The water slide and the food facilities would be here, some of it extending over into South
Carolina. This white building right here is their current front gate and ticketing. This is what would be reconfigured and expanded out towards here.
Councilmember Andy Dulin said excuse me sir, that white building is the Amphitheater. The state line goes through the front gate.
Mr. Zeiler said you’re right. This shows where the general location of the rollercoaster would be.
This is an example from their Cedar Point Park, which is known as America’s Rollercoaster.
This is an example of the type of facility that would be created. This is actually the front gate and ticketing for Cedar Point. This ride opened up this year and you will see that it actually goes kmj

Closed Session Minutes – Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.
June 24, 2013
Page 2 over the gate and the flip to a 90° angle and go vertical to the ticketing gate through these two columns and back throughout there.
Councilmember LaWana Mayfield said what does the liability look like when we have malfunctions out at Carowinds? Is the City in any way having any liability responsibility if something were to happen?
Bob Hagemann, City Attorney said I don’t see how. No.
Mr. Zeiler continued and said so this particular ride is 170 feet tall. The one that would be put in
Carowinds would be about 310-315 feet tall.
Ms. Mayfield said that just doesn’t seem safe. Realistically around the country you’re hearing where they are having major problems just because you’re trying to make bigger and better and more extravagant rides. You are hearing about some major problems that are happening with these rides so is that even safe that we are considering trying to mirror that coming to Carowinds.
Mr. Zeiler said that 300 feet for a rollercoaster is not a record. Rollercoasters are pushing 470-
490 feet at this point. This rollercoaster would max out around 65 mph. Some of the rides at
Cedar Point and in Kings Dominion are topping out at close to 95mph.
Ms. Mayfield said and you could tell that I don’t go to theme parks so thank you for answering the question for me.
Councilmember David Howard said could you go back to the map for me? One of the things you have to worry about when you start talking about doubling attendance would be traffic. I’m actually for this so I’m not talking it down at all, but the majority of the I-77 that would deal with the ramp off is South Carolina, it’s not us, so are they talking about doing any traffic improvements to deal with this during the season?
Mr. Zeiler said yes there will be two series of improvements. They will significantly reconfigure their parking field and how that is accessed in and out. We are also in negotiations and discussions with the State. Right about here Carowinds Blvd narrows down to two lanes coming towards I-77 and one going out towards Tryon. The State is investigating the possibility and the cost of widening this from either two lanes from Catawba Trace all the way out to Tryon or possibly three lanes going out to Tryon which would give you access to I-485.
This will also be one of the first of what are called winged rollercoasters in the southeast. It’s not a traditional rollercoaster where you sit in a car that goes around. You actually dangle on posts that are from a single track. So there is nothing below you. You are sitting on basically a swing as you go around.
Ms. Mayfield said again, Bob, no liability for the City if one goes flying off that and they land on
North Carolina side as opposed to South Carolina?
Mr. Hagemann said … no liability for us.
Mr. Zeiler said this first phase is expected to project an annual attendance of about 385,000 guests. When they installed the Intimidator, their attendance when up by about 300,000 guests per year. It’s expected to create a demand of approximately additional 20,000 hotel nights. That represents about a .4% increase in Mecklenburg County annual nights and would represent about
$250,000 in new state and local hotel taxes.
Councilmember Patrick Cannon said do we know if there are any projections, or is there any thought to have any more hotels along that area?
Mr. Zeiler said I’m not aware of any new hotels that are proposed for the vicinity.
Mr. Cannon said they have a couple of go-tells over there that have been around for a long time.
I’m just wondering about the plan.
Councilmember Patsy Kinsey said I would like to know where the closest hotels are. Are they in North Carolina or South Carolina? kmj

Closed Session Minutes – Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.
June 24, 2013
Page 3
Mr. Zeiler said 2/3 rd
of their hotel stays are within North Carolina.
Ms. Kinsey said stays—you mean people who stay in the North Carolina hotels?
Mr. Zeiler said yes. The information that Cedar Fair SW has given us is that about 2/3 rd
of their folks that are staying in hotels and are buying tickets through hotel packages are doing so in
Mecklenburg or North Carolina.
Ms. Kinsey said I guess my question was in close proximity to the park itself, are there more
South Carolina hotels or North Carolina hotels?
Mr. Zeiler said I don’t know that answer off the top of my head.
Ms. Kinsey said because this doesn’t sound like it’s a good deal for North Carolina.
Mr. Howard said unless they stay off the exit, the improvements that would go on our side would be taxable now as well, so have you looked at what the increased taxed revenue could be on our side of the line if they add this much improvement.
Mr. Zeiler said yes this would be, if this were to go through, a 90% BIP. So you are looking at roughly $110,000-120,000 a year in taxes on the rollercoaster.
Mr. Howard asked the food improvements and the slide, nothing on that …?
Mr. Zeiler said most of that is in South Carolina. So the $33MM that would be invested in the improvements at Linden, North Carolina, would net about $110,000 a year in taxes.
Mr. Howard said, if they’ve done this in other places where they took up some big parks, or however you define that, any idea as to what it did to the areas around it? Can they tell you what you should expect in additional hotel rooms? Can they tell you anything additionally that this may draw off?
Mr. Zeiler said we did not get into that level of discussion. The fact that this is a .4% increase in
Mecklenburg County annual hotel room nights leads me to believe that it’s probably not going to have a significant impact in spurring new hotel development. That would be my sense of it.
Councilmember Michael Barnes said I did a little research on this company and their work at
Kings Dominion and shared an article with you guys about them building an expansion at Kings
Dominion. It was several million dollars. I don’t know how they funded that. Do you know how it was funded?
Mr. Zeiler said I believe it’s going to be through all their typical sources.
Mr. Barnes asked the one in Virginia?
Mr. Zeiler said yes, it’s one of their 11 parks.
Mr. Barnes said after I read it, I said to myself, odds are they are going to do this anyway, but would you go back to the first line please? The $30MM for the new rollercoaster, that rollercoaster is likely to be fabricated someplace else and built here, likely being built by people who aren’t from Charlotte and will be coming in to build the roller coaster and leaving. Do you know anything about that?
Mr. Zeiler said I do not know who their contractor or who any of their local sub-contractors would be? I do know that they do like to hire locally. When they built the gatekeeper at Cedar
Point, 90% of that work was done in terms of the installation, the concrete work and the preparation was done by local vendors. There are only two or three major rollercoaster manufacturers globally.
Mr. Barnes said I appreciate your effort. I’m not likely to vote for it because I think they will do it anyway and they expanded their park in Richmond and I think they’ll do this either way. So kmj

Closed Session Minutes – Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.
June 24, 2013
Page 4 you showed us the map with the land and they’ve got the space to do it so I think they will do it anyway.
Councilmember Claire Fallon said lets go back to the funding of the Dominion in Virginia. Do you know how they funded it? Were they given County money? Were they given council money or city money?
Mr. Zeiler said I do not know the particulars of any of the expansions. What I do know is most of these parks use some sort of expansion or some sort of refreshing of a modest scale every year. Typically, Cedar Fair will do one large rollercoaster installation about every two years among their large parks. This 300 footer would not be a ride that would be duplicated at two parks. It would go to one park or the other park and then wait for another five or six year cycle for the new ride to come into that park.
Ms. Fallon said since its split in half, why is York County only paying $10MM and asking for us
$33MM?
Mr. Zeiler said no, this is how much Cedar Fair would invest. Cedar Fair is going to spend
$30MM of their own money on the rollercoaster, $2.5MM on the water slides, $7MM on for the food complex and $4MM for the ticket booth gate. $33.1MM of that expense will occur in
North Carolina; $10.4MM of that expense will occur in South Carolina.
Ms. Mayfield said Peter going back to what you just said just for clarification’s sake. So what you’re saying is for this new ride, they’re looking at either Kings Dominion or Carowinds. So they are looking to see which one of the two would have the newest … and the newest expansion that is being considered. So they are looking to see which one they are going to choose between
Kings Dominion and Carowinds.
Mr. Zeiler said yes they would like to grow either Kings Dominion or Carowinds to be their next major park to take it to the same level that their four other parks are at, the three million and above attendance. They won’t make the investment in both parks. There is not enough room in the market for that so they are looking to see whether it makes sense to do it in Charlotte or makes sense to do that in Richmond. There are good reasons for both parks.
Councilmember Warren Cooksey asked how did this come to us.
Mr. Zeiler said through the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce.
Mr. Cooksey said I like it. So that means we’ve got four gigacoasters nationwide currently. The
Kings Dominion version of the Intimidator is one of them. Their version of the Intimidator is a taller rollercoaster than what we have. The coaster that we got to call the Intimidator is more about the hills and the swerves. The one in Kings Dominion is more about the height. The height is what attracts people to coasters as well and that becomes more of the signature. Right now the signature modern rollercoaster at Carowinds is not on people’s radar screens as being a big deal because it’s not about 300 feet.
Mr. Howard said I actually wanted to know how many big parks there are and now that you’ve defined down to four. What are they?
Mr. Cooksey said the Millennium Force is at Cedar Point. It’s been operating since 2000 at 310 feet. The Steel Driven is in Japan, the Intimidator 305 at Kings Dominion and then Leviathan in
Canada. So this would be the third gigacoaster in the United States, the five in the world.
Mr. Zeiler said Leviathan is at the Cedar Fair owned project in Canada.
Mr. Howard said I’m trying to define a big park. I mean is Six Flags in Atlanta a big park?
Mr. Zeiler said luckily for us, the Trade Group, about a week ago released all their rankings.
Within North America, if you look at the top 10 parks, the first eight of them are either Disney or
Universal Studio Parks and they range anywhere from 17MM visitors down to 7MM. When you start looking at the other parks in the top 20, Carowinds or Cedar Fair are ranked 13, 14, 15 and
16. For example, San Antonio Texas SeaWorld is at 2.6MM visitors and they are the 20 th kmj

Closed Session Minutes – Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.
June 24, 2013
Page 5 largest. I don’t have rankings for the ones smaller than that. I do know that the Six Flags in
Atlanta is smaller than Carowinds. I believe it’s at about 1.2-1.4MM visitors a year.
Councilmember Andy Dulin said lets go over how much this is going to cost us again.
Mr. Zeiler said if approved, the City’s share of a business investment grant is estimated to be about $327,952 over three years. The City County combined grant is estimated to be $922,467.
The Board of County Commissioners indicated their intent to approve its portion of the BIP last
Tuesday on June 18 th
.
Mr. Dulin said I’ve been out there four times this Spring/Summer. They need to spend $3MM painting the place. A lot of the rides aren’t well maintained, the paint is chipping off the railings. It’s not just real impressive. It’s …, not Epcot. But it’s a ball and its good family fun.
But I’m about with Mr. Barnes. Their business is good and the kids love it in the Fall for
Scarowinds, but I’m really fence walking here. I’m a consumer of their product and yet don’t really see its $113,000 for a three-year, something like that…. I don’t know if the State of North
Carolina, Mecklenburg County will get some taxes off the improvements. But I don’t really know about the room nights being in Mecklenburg County for those folks that stay overnight and the hotels that are there are all in South Carolina and they are old and they are unattractive. The gas is cheap. So I just want to let you all know that I’m on the fence and I don’t know what to do about it.
Councilmember Patrick Cannon said my focal point has jumped on that third bullet right there and I will tell you, Mr. Dulin being on the fence, I’m probably off the fence by that third bullet.
Only 15 of the 20 full-time jobs are going to be met here. Is that right?
Mr. Zeiler said yes. They will create 15 full-time jobs. Your criteria is 20, however, this ride will induce another 270 seasonal jobs.
Mr. Cannon said that doesn’t have anything to do with…. What are you trying to say there? If we approve this somehow, that that is a means of us approving it……
Mr. Dulin said that’s kids like me though. My first job was at 16 years old. I was up there working at Carowinds---all Summer and one Fall.
Mr. Cannon said so I get that piece then because that’s probably any of our kids, grandkids, what have you, for opportunities in the future. But for the people that expect me to at least be accountable for the minimum, I have to respond to that and I’m not meeting the minimum. I’m below the minimum and I’d like to be at least at it if I’m going to be supportive of it. That just concerns me a little bit. I get the bigger picture, but I’m thinking about policy.
Ms. Kinsey said I’m going to be a “no.” I think if that company cannot afford to build a rollercoaster on its own, or they need $300,000+ from the City and County, I just have a sense that when something like this comes through the Chamber or somebody else, I feel pressured for one thing, but secondly I just don’t know if the Chamber says, oh well you can go to the City and
County to get some money,” I just think that’s peanuts for that company and I don’t believe that we are going to make the money back that we are giving them. So I’m a “no”. I’d rather see something big come in. I think an expansion like this, I think you are right Michael, they are going to do it anyway because if its good business for them, they are going to do it.
Mr. Howard said one of the things that we know is that this is one of those things that could probably be placed anywhere and it’s going to attract more people no matter where it is in the country. One of the things that I struggle with in Charlotte is that we have desires to be a choice destination but we don’t have the infrastructure in place to do it and anything that would continue to add to get people here other than for business is something that is positive to me.
One of the things that I know too, I’m not sure where I’ve heard it, but the jobs that are open to teenagers are the hardest to get in our country right now, let alone just in our area, because they are competing with people who are just taking those jobs right now because of the unemployment. So in this situation, the way I read this Mayor Pro Tem is that those 20 jobs are kind of full-time when you add to Carowinds overall. But I would think that Carowinds is probably run by a very small staff anyway. It’s the seasonal jobs that are important out at
Carowinds. It’s not the full-time jobs that stay on all day long, but I bet that you did not try to make equivalent those 270 jobs as full-time. kmj

Closed Session Minutes – Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.
June 24, 2013
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Mr. Zeiler said no we did not. Most of those seasonal jobs are going to be anywhere between 30 and 40 hours a week.
Mr. Howard said but if you had done that—if you had tried to make the calculation of how many full-time jobs that was, it would be more than that 15 I’m sure.
Mr. Zeiler said yes.
Mr. Howard said essentially what you are saying is 15 full-time jobs consisting of sales people, managers, but the thing that you are going to have is 270 more seasonal jobs. That’s huge.
That’s a lot of kids that are going to have something to do to be off the street during the summer time. So to me, the selling point on this one is tourist destination; making sure that we grow it. I mean what Warren just said is very impressive knowledge for me that not many people in here could say that they knew. People travel for miles to do this and we are not doing enough to build the tourist destination amenity to this community. Places like Atlanta in just the same amount time, they are turning them out. They have added the Civil Rights Museum, they added to the
Aquarium and it’s just been over 15 years. They are down there doing it because people seriously get on the road and drive down and spend the weekend.
Mr. Cooksey said I realize that this is a deviation from our policy on this and usually I vote against deviations unless I have some sensible justification. I think the seasonal jobs is the sensible justification, that plus they are asking for their incentive out of the standard framework of what we do and they are not asking for advance dollars or anything like that. It’s the standard business investment grant. They are going to build it. They are going to confirm that they built it. They are going to confirm the jobs. They are going to pay their tax bill and then they get the incentive grant, which is how we do that. Again, I hear Ms. Kinsey as well. None of us likes it but it’s the market that we are in. Every company these days pretty much has a check box that says, “Do we get incentives?” I am under no illusion that this is a make or break scenario but I do know they could pick any place in the southeast to bulk up the park. I heard Peter say that. It disappointed me when the Kings Dominion’s Intimidator was taller than the Carowinds
Intimidator. I know that sounds kind of silly, but in terms of press—in terms of the impression, it does. We have been talking for years about the growth and the attraction of the amateur sports market. This is something that when those families come to Charlotte, they stay the extra day to go to and Carowinds has been a partner in that. When Paramount was running the park,
Carowinds was looking to be ahead in the travel and tourism industry when the Cedar folks bought it. I knew their representation as building big hyper coasters and gigacoasters. We look to put Charlotte on the map for a variety of things. There are different kinds of maps to bid on.
Having a 300+ foot rollercoaster is one of those interesting maps and I am willing to make the slight deviation from policy on the job side because of the nature of the jobs in order to achieve that larger objective of the overall package of what Charlotte has to offer.
Mr. Cannon said let me make sure I understand something. I guess the question is would 270 seasonal jobs still come without our investment?
Mr. Zeiler said no. If the rollercoaster is not built and the additional 385,000 guests do not arrive, those 270 jobs do not come. Those 270 jobs are concessions. They are backend support, sweeping sidewalks, that sort of thing. Those 270 jobs are necessary to support the additional
385,000 guests that would be generated by the rollercoaster.
Mr. Cannon said they need parking.
Ms. Kinsey said, I will go back and say again, I think they are going to do it anyway in Charlotte, so yes, if they do the rollercoaster, then they will provide the jobs. Same thing is I’ve got to get my facts straight and make sure I correct myself, but I am a representative on the Discovery
Place Board and for the last, I don’t know how many years, Discovery Place has been the second or third largest tourist attraction in North Carolina. This last time, I know it was behind Biltmore house, but Carowinds was not on the list. So the next time Discovery Place comes to us for an expansion, I want you all to remember that.
Mr. Cannon said actually its Concord Mills. kmj

Closed Session Minutes – Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc.
June 24, 2013
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Ms. Fallon said refresh my memory please. How do you confirm those 270 jobs that they actually wind up creating those jobs?
Mr. Zeiler said yes we confirm those. Part of our process is that every year, in order to be eligible for the grant, they must submit W-2s and other statements that are part of their State Tax filings. So every year we will confirm via the tax records and we will confirm via the payroll tax records that they actually created the jobs... If they don’t, they are ineligible for the grant.
Ms. Kinsey said do we know whether they are from North Carolina or South Carolina kids?
Mr. Zeiler said their estimate is that about half of these 270 positions would be withholding from
North Carolina and half would be withholding from South Carolina.
Mayor Foxx said do they have a commitment to the Youth Employment Program?
Mr. Zeiler said yes, they have been a strong partner with the Mayor’s Youth Employment
Program and with other programs since 2009. They have employed over 2500 youth from various programs like Mayor’s Youth Employment through Goodwill, through the Urban
League. They have been strong partners on outreach.
Mayor Foxx said what is their current commitment?
Mr. Zeiler said I am not aware of their current commitment.
Mayor Foxx said can we find that out?
Mr. Zeiler said we can find it out quickly I think.
Ms. Mayfield said can we go into the meeting and come back to this?
Mr. Cannon said that’s a good question too because last week. Carowinds has been a good partner. You have been able to make a phone call and get kids involved over there. They were pulling kids off the floor over there for opportunities. That’s why I was asking the question…..
Motion was made by Councilmember Howard, seconded by Councilmember Cooksey to approve the business investment program grant opportunity for the City of Charlotte in combination with
Mecklenburg County for Cedar Fair Southwest, Inc. to establish a large park expansion at
Carowinds.
The vote is recorded as follows:
Yeas: Councilmembers Autry, Cannon, Cooksey, Dulin, Fallon, Howard, Mayfield, Mitchell and Pickering.
Nays: Councilmembers Barnes and Kinsey
The closed session was adjourned at 6:59 p.m.
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