Agenda Item___4___
OVERVIEW AND SCRUTINY
Minutes of a meeting of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee held on 25 January
2012 in the Council Chamber, Council Offices, Holt Road, Cromer at 9.30 am.
Members Present:
Committee:
Mr E Seward (Chairman)
Mr R Shepherd
Mr B Smith
Mr R Smith
Mr P Terrington
Mr G Williams
Mrs A Claussen-Reynolds
Mrs A Green
Mr P Moore
Mr J Perry-Warnes
Mr R Reynolds
Officers in
Attendance:
The Sustainability Co-ordinator (for item 112) The Strategic Director Environment (for Items 112 - 115) and the Democratic Services Team
Leader
Members in
Attendance:
Ms V Gay, Mrs A Fitch-Tillett, Mr P High, Mr K Johnson, Mr J Lee, Mrs A
Moore, Ms B Palmer, Mr S Ward and Mrs V Uprichard
Democratic Services Officer (ED)
101 APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE
Apologies were received from Mr R Wright
102 SUBSTITUTES
None
103 PUBLIC QUESTIONS
Questions had been received for the item on Flooding at Walcott. These would be taken
when the item was considered.
104 MINUTES
The Minutes of the meeting held on 13 December 2011 were signed as a correct record.
105 ITEMS OF URGENT BUSINESS
None received
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25 January 2012
106 DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST
None
107 PETITIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
The Democratic Services Team Leader updated the Committee on petitions from
members of the public. No further petitions had been received via the e-petitions facility
since the last meeting.
108 CONSIDERATION OF ANY MATTER REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE BY A
MEMBER
None.
109 RESPONSES OF THE COUNCIL OR CABINET TO THE COMMITTEE’S REPORTS
AND RECOMMENDATIONS
Cabinet’s proposal that the Big Society Fund should be subject to pre-scrutiny had been
welcomed by the Committee. The item would be considered at a special meeting on 31
January 2012.
110 THE FORWARD PLAN
The Democratic Services Team Leader reminded Members to check the Management
of Council Business matrix that was circulated weekly to ensure that they were kept up
to date with the reports coming to Cabinet, Overview and Scrutiny and Full Council.
111 NORTH NORFOLK HEALTH TRAINER SERVICE
The Portfolio Holder for Health and Wellbeing introduced this item. She explained that
local authorities now had responsibility for public health. Although the Health Trainer
Team was employed by the NHS, they would be based at the Council Offices enabling a
close working relationship which she hoped would form the basis of a long term
partnership with health providers locally.
John Russell, Health Trainer Co-ordinator for North Norfolk gave a brief presentation on
the work of the Health Trainer Team. He said that there were 6 trainers each working 30
hours a week. They provided a service to anyone over the age of 16 and aimed to
provide motivation, support and guidance to help them improve their health and
wellbeing. This approach fitted in well with the Council’s Health Strategy and tied in with
the rest of the county where health trainer teams were already operating.
The biggest challenge was the distance that needed to be covered and finding suitable
accommodation for visits.
Members discussed the presentation:
a) The Chairman asked how long the project had been going. John Russell explained
that it had been established countrywide in 2006 and started in Norfolk in 2010 in
Thetford, Kings Lynn and Norwich. The North Norfolk service intended to have an
initial ‘soft’ launch at 3 medical practices to make sure the general approach was
right.
b) A Member asked for clarification regarding the type of venues the team required.
John Russell said that the room should be suitable for up to 3 people and must be
private.
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25 January 2012
c) The issue of mental health was highlighted. The remit of the Health Trainer Service
did not appear to cover this. John Russell explained that there was a Mental Health
service that offered that same service as the Health Trainer Team but focussed on
mental health issues. People would be signposted to this service if it was felt that it
was more relevant to them.
d) A Member asked whether GPs referred people to the service. John Russell said that
experience showed that around 65% of referrals came from medical practitioners. In
response to a further question regarding other methods of referral, he said that it
was hoped that the official launch in June 2012 would highlight the service to the
public.
e) The issue of self-referral and how the service was promoted to people was raised.
John Russell said that people needed to be ready to change and that if they were
referred by their GP when they were not interested in changing their lifestyle then
they would not engage. Previously links with the home library service had worked
well as it was an effective way of reaching residents who were housebound.
f) The size of the area that was covered by the Team was commented on. It was felt
that it was very large and that it would be necessary to target particular areas
initially. John Russell said that the Council had directed the Team to the places
within the top 40% of deprivation. In response to a further question regarding obesity
in children, it was explained that the Health Trainer Service focussed on people over
16 and that the school medical service would deal with younger people often on a
whole family basis.
g) There was a concern that the limited number of staff would struggle to cover such a
large area. John Russell said that it was intended that they would spend time in
each area over a two week period. This would allow for fortnightly consultations with
people. It was hoped that some sessions could be provided via email or over the
telephone. The technology was currently being put in place to enable this from June
2012 onwards. There would also be an electronic referral form on the website.
h) The Chairman asked how long the project would be running for. John Russell said
that it would run until April 2013 when the service would be put out to tender.
AGREED
1 That future Health Strategy updates to the Committee would include the work of the
Health Trainer Team.
2 That a copy of the presentation would be published in the Member’s Bulletin.
3 The Health Trainer Team would provide an update to the Committee in 12 months on
their progress and achievements.
112 ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY STRATEGY REVIEW
The report outlined progress with projects in the Carbon Management Plan and wider
sustainability work. It included a draft revision of the Council’s Environmental
Sustainability Strategy.
Members discussed the report:
1. A Member asked whether the Greenbuild event would continue. The Deputy Leader
said that it would and it was hoped that the event would continue to be sponsored by
an external organisation. In response to a further question as to whether the event
depended on sponsorship, the Deputy Leader said that it did not but that there was
a finite budget.
2. The recent changes to the Feed-in tariffs and the likely impact on uptake was raised.
The Sustainability Coordinator said that it was probable that there would be a
reduction in uptake and this would become clearer over the next 6 months.
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3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
However, there were still good deals available and she was confident that demand
for renewable technologies would remain reasonably strong.
The cost of energy use at the Council Offices was raised. A Member asked whether
there had been an in-depth study into how energy use could be reduced further. The
Sustainability Coordinator said that the Carbon Management Plan had looked at this
issue closely. Electricity was the main cost. Only the servers were left on
continuously now. Lights and PCs were turned off overnight. The Strategic Director
– Environment added that the Council’s Property Services team had arranged for an
in-depth study of council buildings. This included the leisure centres where there
was a huge use of energy – particularly at Splash in Sheringham.
A Member asked whether the Sustainability Coordinator was confident that the
Council would achieve its target of reducing CO2 emissions by 33% by 2014. She
replied that the Council was not on target at the moment. There had been several
mitigating factors and these were being dealt with but it was likely that the target
would need to be lowered.
The lack of a back-up generator at the Council offices was raised. A Member
suggested that a renewable energy source should be considered. The Strategic
Director – Environment said that the main priority was having access to an
alternative energy supply quickly and that would be the main priority and govern the
selection of a suitable resource. In response to a further question regarding the
necessity of providing power to the whole building in the event of a power-cut, the
Strategic Director said that it was necessary as there would be no way of knowing
how long the power would be out for.
A Member asked how many of the 30 projects within the Carbon Management Plan
had been completed. The Sustainability Coordinator said that it was at least 10 but
this would be confirmed at the next update to the Committee.
The ongoing power-saving campaign for staff was highlighted. It was felt that this
should be enforced strictly if savings were to be made. The Sustainability
Coordinator explained that there had been a continual fall in energy use since the
start of the campaign. She added that PCs had been fitted with a power-down plug
and the Environmental Health team were trialling timers on their shared printers.
Environmental Sustainability Strategy Review April 2012 – March 2015
The Committee was invited to comment on the new draft Environmental Sustainability
Strategy which was due for review by April 2012. The following points were made:
a) The most important part of the document was the Foreword which mentioned the
importance of achieving a balance between protecting the environment and
maintaining social and economic development. It was felt that this approach was not
reflected fully throughout the strategy document. (p.17)
b) The targets and Action Plan needed adjusting slightly. (p. 25 – 30)
c) The Council should be more pro-active in attending outside events and parish
council meetings to promote awareness of sustainability issues. (p.26)
d) Plain English should be used where possible to ensure all stakeholders are able to
understand the strategy.
e) The corporate approach to sustainability seemed separate from the economic
approach. More could be done to draw them together.
f) Green business start-ups should be included within the strategy.
g) It was not clear whether the reference to the impact of development on designated
wildlife sites and protected species was limited to the Council or whether other
organisations were involved.
h) Councillor Glyn Williams offered to suggest amendments on the document in writing
on behalf of the Committee, which would be considered with the comments above in
the final draft.
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25 January 2012
113 FLOODING AT WALCOTT
David Kemp and Carol Maystan, representatives of the Environment Agency, were
attending the Committee to address concerns regarding flooding at Walcott on 27th
November 2011. The Chairman read out some questions from the local Member for
Walcott, Councillor Lee Walker:
a) Please can you explain to the Committee how the current flood warning system
works?
b) Why do you think the warning system failed in November 2011?
c) Can you explain why several people registered with the warning system did not
receive a call – including Tony Andrews the Head warden?
d) What contingency plan is in place for when the power lines fail? Would sirens not be
more effective on such occasions?
e) What more do you feel the Environment Agency can do to ensure a safe and reliable
system is in place?
David Kemp said that he would try and respond to the questions during his presentation
to the Committee. He began by explaining how the Environment Agency’s flood warning
service worked. Coastal areas were given 12 hours warning and there were three levels:
•
•
•
Flood Alert – low lying floods, properties would not be affected
Flood Warning – some properties could be affected
Severe Flood warning – possible danger to life
Residents must be registered with the Agency to receive these warnings and they were
issued by telephone (landline and mobile), text and email. The Environment Agency
received feedback on how many calls had been answered and were able to request a
multi-agency response if they felt an insufficient number of people had been alerted.
Following the flood in Walcott in 2007, it was agreed that there should be flood warnings
specifically for Walcott as areas of the village could flood even when the levels were
relatively low.
In November 2011 a flood alert was issued at 10.45am in anticipation of the high tide at
7.30pm. Properties would not be affected but it was likely that there would be water on
the road and this proved to be the case. Flood alerts were only issued to those people
who had requested them. Following the incident in November, letters were sent to all
households registered with the Environment Agency explaining what a flood alert was
and giving them the option to receive them in future. David Kemp explained that the
sirens had been provided and operated by the County Council and that the Environment
Agency was not involved in the decision to remove them except to state their position of
the sirens not being required. Their system had always operated independently of the
sirens.
Looking to the future, David Kemp stressed that it was important that residents worked
with the Environment Agency. He added that work was being undertaken on wave
forecasting which would make flood predictions more precise and that Walcott would
have a flood alert of it’s own in future. In addition, more advice would be provided to
residents on what they should do when a flood warning was issued.
The Chairman invited Jan Deakin, Chairman of Walcott Parish Council to put forward
questions on behalf of the Parish Council:
1. Why was nobody apparently issued with any warning about the incident a few weeks
ago except the flood wardens?
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2. Why is the demarcation of the area that can be registered for flood warnings so
abrupt? One possible problem with this is that you might want to make sure where
your cat is during and event like the other evening or somebody in the village may
want to be alerted so that they can check on an elderly or infirm neighbour. There is
an element of social responsibility required in such situations; as Parish Councillors
we feel a certain responsibility to be aware of any possible crisis in our village in
order to be able to give support and be able to react as required.
3. What happens if the phones/electricity go down during an incident? How are they
going to issue warnings?
4. Is it moral that the local primary incident response is left to unpaid amateurs? (No
disrespect intended to our flood wardens who did manage the latest situation
extremely well)
In addition, Pauline Porter a local resident asked the following questions:
1
2
As a former Civil Protection officer for another parish, I have been registered to
receive all of the flood alerts and warnings. I did not receive an alert on the 27th
November 2011 and this could have had serious consequences for my neighbour as
she is on oxygen and I need to assist her during an emergency. Why did I not
receive an alert on this occasion?
Does the Environment Agency ever attend the scene to study the water levels in
Walcott?
David Kemp said that he would look into the problems relating to registration for flood
alerts. Residents should contact Floodline and they would pass the information on to his
team and ensure that they were registered. He offered to attend a meeting to explain the
process to local residents.
The Chairman invited Paul Morse, County Councillor for North Walsham East and North
to comment on the discussion so far. Mr Morse said that he felt that it was vital that the
problem was solved. He said that multi-agency working could prove challenging and that
the problems that occurred during the flood of 2007 had not been resolved. There
seemed to be a real difficulty with people understanding the difference between a flood
alert and a flood warning and there needed to be a continual campaign to ensure
awareness was maintained.
Members discussed the presentation:
a) Mr B Smith, Local Member for Mundesley Ward, which was adjacent to Walcott said
that he had visited Walcott the day after the flood in November 2011 and spoken to
several residents. There seemed to be an inconsistency in who had received the
alerts. He highlighted the fact that a policeman on foot had alerted a residential
home. He also had concerns that the flood warning system seemed to rely on
contacting people by landline. On this occasion the phone lines had been down for
two days. David Kemp said that he accepted that there had been problems
regarding registration for flood alerts. In response to the concern regarding phone
lines, he said that the data indicated that 79% of calls got through on this occasion.
b) The Chairman asked if there was any contact with people in the affected area who
could appraise the Environment Agency of the situation on the ground. David Kemp
said that they would welcome any reports from the scene that could assist the
Agency to control the situation.
c) Several Members commented that the system would be more effective if all
residents could be registered for all three levels of flood warning. David Kemp said
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that since 2007 automatic registration had been allowed. However, flood alerts were
not included in this arrangement.
d) A Member asked about visitors staying in the area and how they were alerted when
there was a flood. David Kemp said that this was a big challenge. Several of the
holiday camps were registered for alerts but not all. The Environment Agency was
looking into the possibility of cell broadcasting – when a message was sent to all
mobile phones in a specific area. In response to a further question as to whether
they used the Radio Amateurs Emergency Network (RAYNET), he confirmed that
they did.
Two of the questions received from Walcott Parish Council referred to the District
Council. The Chairman invited John Lee, Portfolio Holder for Environmental Services to
respond:
1. Could NNDC provide us with the evidence, in the form of accredited peer reviewed
scientific studies that show that the use of warning sirens is likely to induce mass
panic or that they are less effective and reliable than the high technology system they
advocate. What evidence is there about the relative costs? We believe that the
electorate are entitled to see the evidence that our democratic representatives are
using to guide their decisions. Councillor Lee said that the decision to remove the
sirens was taken by the County Council and that the District Council had not been
involved.
2. Now that the NNDC is not to issue sandbags and is passing its stock to a parish like
Walcott, what guidance/policy/budget will be passed over to the parish? Is the
NNDC now abdicating its civil protection role? Councillor Lee confirmed that the
District Council had withdrawn the offer to provide sandbags on advice from the
Environment Agency. It was felt that they were relatively ineffective against flood
waters and that flood boards would provide better protection. As a consequence the
Council was donating its remaining supply of sandbags to parishes that wanted them.
He suggested that Walcott should be represented on the Senior Flood wardens
group if this was not already the case.
The Chairman suggested that the issue of sandbags could be considered further during
the next item - Civil Contingencies Update. It was agreed that the Committee would like
to be kept informed of any developments regarding flooding at Walcott and that this
should be covered in future updates to the Committee on civil contingencies and
emergency planning.
AGREED
To receive a regular briefing on flooding at Walcott as part of the Civil Contingencies
Update.
114 CIVIL CONTINGENCIES AND BUSINESS CONTINUITY UPDATE
The report provided a six monthly update on civil contingencies and business continuity
planning, the progress made to date, ability to respond to any disruptive events that had
recently occurred and the outline of future objectives.
Members discussed the report:
a) The Chairman requested that Members should be kept informed of any changes or
amendments to emergency and business continuity plans. It was important that all
Members were aware of the out of hours emergency contact number. The Strategic
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25 January 2012
Director – Environment said that the out of hours arrangement continued as
previously, the only change was that there would be one officer on call now, with a
standby system in place.
b) A Member asked why the supply of sandbags was being withdrawn and whether the
decision had been made on the basis of cost. The Strategic Director – Environment
said that the scheme cost £8000 a year and that the sandbags needed to be
renewed regularly due to rot. In addition, the provision to supply sandbags via the
waste contractor was no longer in place. In response to a further question regarding
whether residents had been made aware of the decision to withdraw the provision of
sandbags, the Strategic Director – Environment said that the Council had contacted
residents who had used the service previously and information had been provided
on the Council’s website. He added that it was not a district council function to
provide sandbags and that they would be working with local groups and the
Environment Agency to increase awareness. From an insurance perspective
homeowners were expected to take their own measures to protect their home from
flooding.
c) The possibility of providing economic assistance to residents for flood protection was
raised. The Strategic Director – Environment said that the Council did not provide
financial assistance but that items such as flood boards were very effective and
inexpensive to install and maintain.
d) The Chairman asked for further information regarding the impact of the industrial
action on 30th November on business continuity. The Strategic Director –
Environment confirmed that the early forewarning of the event helped to mitigate the
impact on the Council’s services. He added that it provided a good opportunity for
managers to review their business continuity plans.
AGREED
That details of the emergency out of hours contact number would be published in the
Member’s Bulletin on a regular basis.
115 WASTE CONTRACT UPDATE
The Strategic Director – Environment updated the Committee on the waste contract:
a) There had been no disruption to the waste and recycling collections over the
Christmas and New Year period.
b) Changes to the collection rounds during the autumn had gone relatively smoothly
c) The outstanding software issues with the contractor were being dealt with.
d) Improvements had been agreed regarding cleansing operations in market towns.
e) Litter picking would commence shortly until Easter.
f) The first draft of the Annual Contract Improvement Plan was now in and any
changes would be implemented from 1st April 2012.
g) The public conveniences were being cleaned to a high standard. Two were currently
closed for essential maintenance.
h) The Edgefield landfill site would close in 2013 and alternative arrangements were
being agreed.
i) Following the departure of the Environmental Services Manager, the Council had
entered into a shared management arrangement with King’s Lynn and West Norfolk
Borough Council. It was working well so far and would be kept under review.
Members discussed the update:
1. The Chairman asked who Members should contact now if they had any concerns
regarding waste. The Strategic Director – Environment said that if it was a minor
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25 January 2012
issue then they should contact the technical officers in the Environmental Services
team. If it was a major concern then they should contact the Environmental Services
Manager, Barry Brandford.
2. The local Member for Lancaster North praised the quick response to the concerns
about street cleansing in Fakenham. She asked whether there was a possibility that
the Council’s waste contractor could go into administration given the recent collapse
of Norwich City Council’s environmental management contractor, Fountains. The
Strategic Director – Environment explained the Council’s waste contractor, Kier was
very different to Fountains and was financially backed by a large construction
company. They had a good working relationship and it was unlikely that the
partnership would end prematurely. In response to a further question as to whether
there was a contingency plan in place, he said that in the unlikely event of contract
failure it was probable that there would be several companies who would be keen to
take over the work.
116 OVERVIEW AND SCRUTINY UPDATE
The Democratic Services Team leader updated the Committee on progress with topics
in its agreed work programme
1. The Housing Strategy: this involved several pieces of work being drawn together.
The Housing Services Manager had proposed that it should be presented to the
February meeting of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee.
2. The Constitution: there had been a recent audit of corporate governance
arrangements. The Constitution Working Party would be approved at the February
meeting of Full Council with the aim of having the review completed by April 2012.
3. Task and Finish Group: the Group had met once and the meeting had gone very
well. It was anticipated that they would meet again with the aim of bringing a report
to the Overview and Scrutiny Workshop in April.
4. Annual Plan: The Deputy Chief Executive was working on a timetable for this item. It
would come to the Committee for consideration following the public consultation.
5. Public Transport Time and Task Limited Panel: little progress had been made to
date. Councillor Roy Reynolds reported that an expert would be attending the panel
regarding buses. It was hoped that there would be pressure brought to bear on the
bus companies regarding timetabling and allowing communication between
operators.
6. Councillor Annie Claussen-Reynolds updated the Committee on information
regarding ambulance response times. Additional information was now available
regarding performance in North Norfolk against the 8 minute emergency response
standards. The East of England Ambulance Service NHS Trust (EEAST) had been
invited to attend the next meeting of the East of England Health Scrutiny Chairs
Forum on 23 February 2012. Councillor Claussen-Reynolds would report back at a
future date on the outcome of this meeting. She also outlined the current work
programme for the Norfolk Health Overview and Scrutiny Committee (NHOSC).
AGREED
That the Housing Strategy would be presented to the Overview and Scrutiny Committee
on 15th February 2012.
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25 January 2012
The meeting concluded at 13.03 pm
_________________________
Chairman
Overview and Scrutiny Committee
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25 January 2012