TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW
with
DR CHARLOTTE KLONK
Key:
TK
HN
CK
Tim KELLY
Hilary NESI
Dr Charlotte Klonk
HN
Right. O.K. So what is the purpose of a seminar in the History of Art?
CK
The purpose is, I think, in a sense, that the seminar is the main forum in
which learning happens in history of art. The lectures are there if, I think,
in a sense to give the map to the course, to the student, if you think of a
course as sort two ????? plural???? the lectures will give them a map.
And in seminars, to some extent, it’s where students really get digging
into the grounds, and I think what we tend to do in seminars is we try to
organise them in such a way that students get to talk and present. I mean I
think, by and large, we still have students present themes and topics. That
has two reasons - it’s two-fold. One I think again is the seminars are
fulfilling the purpose of gathering some facts, materials, to come to terms
with the knowledge with whatever needs to be covered in the course, and
that’s a quick way of - you know - getting that together for everybody to
share. But I think why they are the main focus of our teaching is because
what we want to get at in our teaching, in our seminars, in our courses, is
to enable them to not just gather material, but also to of course analyse it,
and ultimately to formulate their own viewpoint. And it’s in the seminars
where that happens. It’s very rarely that people can do this outside on
their own, so that’s where the tutoring, where the help comes in. And it’s
in the seminars where it happens. So in contrast to the lectures, where
one would give a map to them - you know, give some orientation to the
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territory and to some extent organise the material for the students, in the
seminars where students do it for themselves, and they are doing it for
themselves - getting to terms with the material, trying to compare it,
connect it, analyse it, synthesise it - they are actually doing the kind of
learning which we aim for.
HN
Right. What kind of preparation? -
CK
(Coughs) Preparation which I ask for is - I think that’s also where my
main preparation goes in - is that I am very clear of what I do beforehand,
before I think up a course I think, “What are the areas which I feel they
ought to come to terms with?” - cover, so to speak, in order to get a grasp
of, you know, get the knowledge grasp I’m aiming for. And for each
seminar then I select significant reading, two or three pieces which I ask
everybody to read. And it’s at that point that obviously my preparation
goes into those seminars, that I do make that decision for them, and then I
expect everybody to come prepared with that reading. I then have that
moment where I ask - either ask - I vary it. I ask students to present or to,
you know, gather the information together together in that seminar. Often
enough, you know, we will alternate, so there’s a variety. When they’ve
presented - a couple of students will present a bit of that material, and
then on the basis of that reading which people have done at home, and
beforehand or in the library or wherever they do the reading, we try to
have a discussion about it because what I think is important in a seminar,
and where learning really happens, is that they start to formulate their
own viewpoints. That they not only analyse and synthesise, but they are
able actually to formulate their own viewpoints. And I think the seminars
are fantastic ground for doing so, because you can only formulate your
own viewpoint if you get to grips with, you know, that there are opposing
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viewpoints around - that there are a variety of viewpoints on any one
subject. And it’s in a seminar where you - everyone together - with a lot
of other students, where other people might hold other views, and that’s where that actually becomes apparent. And that’s what I want to get at in
a seminar. And I try to get it into such a shape eventually it needs some
building up, and that people are confident to formulate their own
viewpoint. And in order to do that, of course, they need to learn to
respect other people’s viewpoints.
HN
M’m.
CK
And I think that’s very important in a seminar. And then really the
seminar is the only place where that happens.
HN
Is student performance assessed in any way? - formally or informally?
CK
No, not at the moment. And we will move towards that because we
recognise that that is a very important part of the learning process. But as
it stands at the moment it is informally - I mean not formally assessed, but
informally, so that students when they come for tutorials get a feedback
on the way that we think they performed in the seminars. But at the
moment it’s not formally assessed.
HN
What advice would you give to a student who perhaps wasn’t very
confident about speaking in seminars - perhaps because their first
language wasn’t English?
CK
I would say that that is a very important hurdle to jump.
HN
M’m.
CK
And very early on, because if one thinks about the skills they need to
acquire in the long run, speaking up and speaking for themselves, and
speaking fluently is a very important skill to learn in life.
HN
M’m.
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CK
And even though it isn’t their own first language, I think this is something
they should grapple very wholeheartedly with immediately.
HN
M’m. And would you say that it was better then for them to speak, even
if they made mistakes?
CK
Oh absolutely! I do - I mean I hope to get to such a state in a seminar,
particularly if it is a small seminar, where there’s confidence, that people
trust each other, and where people actually experience a seminar as a
ground in which they can just, you know, articulate whatever they feel
like articulating at that moment, and then build it up from there. But it’s
very - I mean that’s another bit of work which is very hard to formalise,
which goes into preparation of a seminar, too. And it depends on the
group of the students and there is a dynamic, of course, which sets in, but
I think it is very important that a seminar is a kind of group where people
feel they have trust in each other, and they feel carried and held, so that
they can actually speak up and say something.
HN
Yes, so you’d advise students not to be shy about -
CK
No, just to get going.
HN
- coming in? Even if -
CK
I am reluctant - I mean I tried to find this out beforehand, but I am
reluctant to ask people directly because they have often balked at that and
didn’t really quite want to be asked directly and then respond to that. But
I make sure that everybody speaks up in seminars. They might not in one
week or another, but I do try to make sure that everybody has an
opportunity.
HN
M’m. And do you designate which students should present? Do you
decide which students, each week, should give a presentation?
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CK
That depends what year I’m teaching. In the first year, when they just get
to terms with learning at university, and they don’t really know each
other, and the seminars are large, then I designate what they should be
presenting.
HN
M’m.
CK
In the third year it’s up to them, and it is largely in their hands how they
want to organise them. But then they have a very good idea of what a
good seminar is for them, and what a good seminar does for them, so they
have very clear ideas of what they want. So for example this year they
were actually initially quite clear that they didn’t want presentations;
that they didn’t want other - you know, other people assigned to do
presentations. And yet that was something we moved towards, as the
seminar developed, and people then thought, it’s a good opportunity for
them to present, because they felt it’s a skill they need - needed - and so
they wanted to do that. So I leave it - in the third year - I leave it up to
them.
HN
M’m.
CK
- If they want to present and what they want to present, and they distribute
it amongst themselves. In the first year I assign it.
HN
M’m. You mentioned tutorials. How do they tie in with the seminar?
What’s the difference between a seminar and a tutorial?
CK
Well, a tutorial is really a one-to-one. That’s when you see students
individually, and that’s not a regular built-in component of a course. It
happens during office hours when they come to see you before - when
they have a problem, or when they prepare presentation, or it in a
formalised sense happens after they have written essays, assessed essays
and non-assessed essays, and you return them. And then you give them
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feedback on their writing, and it is during those moments that, you know,
the feedback is very much tailored to their performance, be it written or
orally. And that’s very different from a seminar. I mean the kind of
skills that I was talking about we are trying to get at in a seminar don’t
come into play there I think.
HN
M’m. What are the skills that a student really needs to perform very well
in a seminar? What kind of - how would a student shine in a seminar?
CK
Right. They do shine if they precisely do what I describe before. If they
- before the seminar started to gather - gather together facts and
information, and try to think about the material, analyse it already. And
they shine in the seminar if they have managed to link it to other areas
which we have done, which we have dealt with before - when they start to
analyse it in a seminar and synthesise material. Then speak up with a
viewpoint on this. Then they would shine.
HN
So they need their own viewpoint?
CK
They need in a seminar to reach the point where they can articulate their
own viewpoint, yes.
HN
Even if it’s different from what they have read in books or articles?
CK
Yes. Yes.
HN
M’m.
CK
And I think that’s actually a very important part of the seminar, and, you
know, if it’s different from what they’ve read in the books - or if it’s
different from another person is saying in that seminar, I think this is a
very important part of their learning process. But there are opposing
views and that you respect those opposing views, but none the less are
able - particularly because you respect the other viewpoints, you are able
to articulate your own.
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HN
M’m. And so students sometimes argue in seminars?
CK
They do, yes.
HN
Yes.
CK
Yes.
HN
And do you feel that sometimes international students are worried about
this, because they don’t like the argument - or they feel that they can’t
take an active part in an argument?
CK
I don’t think it is confined to international students. I think it is
something - I mean I have presented this argument scenario of perhaps the
seminar in this. In the first year it often works that people have
viewpoints early on, and they are free to articulate it, and probably most
scenarios - international students often are quieter. But by the time it gets
to the third year I think people are more used to that format, and I think
there’s no difference between international students - at least, not in my
experience.
HN
M’m.
CK
- and home students.
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