PNWCG Steering Committee November 2013 Meeting Notes
Nov. 20, 2013
Attendees:
Chair Pam Ensley(FWS) with proxy for NPS
Cory Winnie, (BIA)
Albert Kassel(DNR) with proxy from WFS, WFM and OFS
David Summer (FS) with proxy from BLM and Bobbie Scopa
Doug Grafe, (ODF)
Jim Walker (OFM)
Dan O’Brien, NWCC
Ted Pierce, acting note taker
Pat Kelly, Executive Director
GuestsCiCi Chitwood, Business Section Lead
Ben McGrane, Supervisory Contracting Specialist
Tony Largaespada, Contract Operations Assistant
Contractors Association Attendees –
See the attached list
On the phone – Sarah Fischer, FS-WO, National Incident Business Coordinator
Administration
There are no current Task Orders or Tracking Items due.
The October SC DRAFT notes were handed out for review.
Contract Association Review of 2013
Pam – Introductions and affirming the commitment of the SC to meet annually with Contract
Associations.
 Today’s intent is for the Steering Committee to listen to contractor issues and work towards
resolution.
 Ground Rules – We’re here to listen.
 Process—We’ll provide a brief update of a Facilitated Learning Analysis (FLA) being conducted
on Contractor Fatalities from the 2013 Fire Season, and an update on the seven follow-up items
from the November 2012 Steering Committee meeting with the Contractors Associations.
David – Facilitated Learning Analysis (FLA) of Contractors Fatalities
 The 2013 fire season was tragic with 4 contract fatalities in August.
 An additional Contractor Fatality occurred in Oct. 2012. A FLA is underway to look for lessons
learned and common threads in the fatalities.
 The review is intended to be done by January 2014.
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Update from Steering Committee of Contract Association Issues Raised in 2012
1) Solve the dispatching situation. Have dispatchers attend a mandatory annual session which
includes working with and dispatching contract resources.
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DNR and NWCC worked together throughout the fire season for water handling dispatch
solutions.
Early Nov. Cindy Beck, David Summer and Nancy Hirsch met with NWSA.
Albert, Nancy, Jim Walker work in progress for state of Oregon to bring dispatching
more in line with NWCC.
Dispatch Workshop held Spring 2013 in conjunction with Incident Business/Contracting.
2) MOU’s ensure that the Community Colleges are held to a standard equivalent to the
contractors.
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David- briefing paper was mailed to all contractors association.
Cont. assoc had asked for more compliance.
PNWCG agreed to explore third party records inspections.
3) Get Best Value considerations into the VIPR agreements.
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PNWCG has taken the concerns and shared with the national business working team
chair Sarah Fischer during Contractor Association / PNWCG meeting.
New operations position national office filling a GS 12 position to respond to VIPER
issues. Intent would be to have this position attend future PNWCG/ Contract
association meetings.
4) Keep up a regular pattern of PNWCG Steering Committee and Contractors Associations
meetings.
o 2014 affirms intent of regular meetings
5) Develop consistency between agreements. There is too much one size fits all. National
Templates are seen as a step backward. Tender Operators may be at greater risk from fire than
their fitness standard would indicate.
o See bullets from #3 above.
6) Standardization is needed to bring fire department folks into fitness and experience levels
comparable with contractors.
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WA response--WAC 29630507010: if attacking a wildland fire, if last longer than 1 hour,
need to meet 310-1 requirements.
OR response—participating agencies accept/meet standards; agencies operating within
home jurisdiction meet only the local requirements.
7) FESSA group (Fire Equipment, Service and Supply Acquistion). Is made up of Contracting
Officers. It badly needs operations side participation.
o
o
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New operations position national office filling a GS 12 position to respond to VIPER
issues.
Goal is to bridge contracting and operations standards.
Region 6 also intends to fill position to focus on these issues in 2014.
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Summary of 2013 Contractor Association Issues and Discussion:
1. Dispatchers not knowing how to dispatch the various contracts.
a. Biggest recurring issue, more education is needed within the dispatch community and
contract community.
b. Kim Christensen will be presenting contracting dispatch procedures at the national
contracting meeting.
c. R-6 Dispatch workshop to have a presentation on dispatching various contracts.
d. Utilize closest forces concept.
2. Self-Certification
a. VIPR templates unintentional shift resource quality back towards self-certification.
b. Greater oversight of certification needed.
c. Develop MOU for records inspection.
3. Utilizing Best value contracting
a. Need to look at something besides the price.
b. Consider contractor, training, experience. Have to look at what you’re getting for the
money.
4. Conducting Needs analysis on engine contract
a. Helpful for contractors to know how many engines, for example, are needed year by
year.
b. Chance to invest in quality over numbers of resources.
5. Need for good quality evaluation on performance
a. Making sure that this is shared at upcoming IMT training and distributed to units for
Type 3 incidents.
b. Currently have different performance evaluation forms and committed to utilizing only
ICS form and not the contracting form
6. Identify where the evaluations for instructors and courses go.
a. USFS has agreed to hold funding at regional level for improved monitoring of instructors
and courses.
7. Associations have asked for a point of contact as we have had in the past.
a. USFS will be filling a new position in fire contracting to be the point of contact.
8. Contract resources are not always involved with AAR’s while in the field or on fires.
a. Contractors are asking for a forum to provide feedback on the incident.
9. Get a contract association rep. at the upcoming spring IC meeting.
a. Goal would be to talk about evaluations, performance, and overhead performance.
10. There is a need for more Language Skills Assessment sites.
a. LSA requirements must be completed by June 1 of each calendar year. All STCR, CRWB
and FFT1 firefighters must attend and successfully pass pre-season LSA testing. Testing
must be completed by either Clackamas Community College or Rogue Community
College.
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11. Concerns with reported hours versus worked hours—instances of 16 hour duty days being
recorded regardless of time worked.
a. Would like appropriate time recorded as worked. (ie. 16-hr days)_
12. Match skills with job on specialty equipment (ie tactical tenders, fallers, and dozer operators)
Sarah Fisher FS-WO
o Working to improve the program and appreciates ability to listen
o Good to hear possible solutions from the Contractor Associations Perspective
After Action Review of the Contractors Association portion of the meeting:
o Debbie- Liked seeing actions implemented that were talked about this year.
o Doug- Impressed with the tone and professionalism
o David- Will discuss this conv. Where he can, contact will be provided,
o Cici- Glad Ben took part as the VIPER POC
o Doug- knowing who key contacts are
o Could have provided feedback to contract associations
o Mike- Appreciate that R-6 is a model for contracting
##CLOSE OF CONTRACTOR ASSOCIATION MEETING##
Steering Committee Topics
New Master Agreement
Luann Grover – Draft provided, 2 days of meetings and several conference calls to draft revision:
o Authorities changed – service first act – section 323
o Section 9c second line– changed title more in line with national document
o Additional page 10 – 17c
o OP throughout document OP changed
o Page 9 #12 – Interagency resources 3rd paragraph will change in 2015. Will need new language
from PNWCG regarding geoboard oversight (provided suggested text (attached) through David),
for once the decision regarding Dec. decision. Remove the word local
o Page 5 Associations – the 3 Rangeland associations are not included as they are not a protection
(Doug)
o Section 13 – Accepting other agencies standards,
o ODF utilizes state direction on some quals (i.e. Food Unit Leader for local nuances) ODF
relates closely to 310-1.
o David – why wouldn’t we want to adjust to one standard.
o Albert relates this standard to 310-1 and thinks that we are all close. Operations and
Safety will maintain 310-1 standards.
o David suggests accept Section 13 as written. Food Unit leaders for feds need COR.
o Section 29 – Management response for unplanned ignitions.
o Removed suppression, installed management.
o Washington DNR cannot add smoke management, need to base decision on firefighter
safety. Potential damage, firefighter safety,
o Section 29 – changed to land management consideration
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o
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o
o
o
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Section 35 –
Section 42 – added fire danger
Section 49 – cleaned up verbiage
Section 52 – added second paragraph and will add to operating plan
Exhibit Changes – mirrors red book more closely
Exhibit c – changes may be made in the operating plan
Will review Operating plan annually
David – Utilize Cohesive wildfire strategy verbiage (group consensus to add into purpose or intent) will
work with Luann to add a sentence into the document regarding this.
Doug- suggested recognition to landowner resources within their own jurisdiction. Will forward to legal
review for possible verbiage.
PNWCG concurs with proposed adjustments to Master agreement pending legal review.
o Albert inquired about dates w/in exhibit d – Luann will follow up (may go into Operating Plan)
o Enter into legal review Dec. 10 expecting 60-day decision.
March meeting review/ discuss Master Agreement
o Should reviews back before PNWCG Feb. 19-20 meeting
IIMT spring 2014 meetings
o 11 IMT’s all going to meeting in Yakima (15 feds for each team, total of 165 federal employees)
April 15-16, 2014
o WAIIMT 2,ORIIMT 4, taking leads for agendas
o David- Jeff: suggest the need for PNWCG approval of the agenda
Annual (February) Workshop
o Planning for annual workshop will be deferred to the December 2013 Steering Committee
meeting.
2014 vision for Fire Safety Sessions
David- Will be looking for support from different sections to form a team to assist with Fire Operations
Safety Training sessions
Shelby – Handout, outline of 3 options to continue momentum.
Pam- Suggest Storm King staff ride to use as part of safety session.
Dan- Suggest creating a “YouTube” style approach to disseminating info.
Albert- We need to reactivate the safety and health working team,
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David- Made a public commitment to learn and need to utilize south canyon staff rides as a learning
point.
– 3 options –
1. Build data deliverable to the field (like a YouTube Video)
2. Build up the (Prineville—South Canyon) staff ride greater participation
3. Move staff ride to different venue and open to all.
Identify safety when discussing what we will not do, need to push forward with the safety working team
amidst the reduction of working groups.
Hot Topics
o 2014 Chair-V. Chair – Pam proposes continue with rotation, with Nancy as Chair and David as V.
Chair
o Topics 2014 NMAC/GMAC meeting – Jan 4-8 in Boise. Pam will be going, As well as Dan
o Geoboard/ Geoboards- Will be discussed Dec. 11
o Ops working team completed June paper with analysis, Oregon and Washington
Geoboards Need to be available and address issues; Familiarize with governing rules
and documents before Dec. meeting.
o David – Need to invite additional people from geoboards, probably leads and anyone
else who would have input
o Pam – continue to move forward towards one governing board
o Dan – develop the operating plan to give the future group direction
o Interagency Incident Management Teams will try to have rosters selected Dec. 10
o Team Review, teams are looking for direction
Pat will be gone after Thanksgiving-Dec. 9
AAR
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5 contract associations felt heard
Appreciate the open Feedback
Values group involvement and input regarding other groups
Safety sessions may revolve around South Canyon Staff Ride
Sharing key
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PNWCG Sign-in Sheet 11-20-13
Name
Email
Association
Phone
Dan O’Brien
Debbie Miley
Lee Miller
Dale Jenner
David Summer
Stan Kunzman
Harry Winston
d1obrien@blm.gov
nwsa@wri.com
lee@millertimber.com
arrowheadforestry@gmail.com
dsummer@fs.fed.us
kunzmansur@aol.com
Harry@firststrikeenvironmental.com
NWCC
NWSA
NWSA
NWSA
FS/ BLM
NWSA
OFCA
Pat Kelly
Pam Ensley
Rick Dice
James Walker
Tim Logozzo Sr
Warren Giles
Richard Scholl
Michael D. Wheelock
Doug Grafe
Dan Boettner
Paul Asher
Christian Jckowski
Jamie Olsen
CiCi Chitwood
Ben McGrane
Tony Largaespada
Ted Pierce (notes)
Pik_4@comcast.net
Pam_Ensley@fws.gov
rick@patrickfire.com
Jim.walker@state.or.us
wfstim@gmail.com
gilezs@yahoo.com
schollfire@pocketinet.com
mdwheelock@msn.com
dgrafe@odf.state.or.us
dan@tswca.org
paul@gfpenterprises.com
cjckowski@gmail.com
admin@nftch.com
cchitwood@fs.fed.us
bmcgrane@fs.fed.us
tlargaespada@fs.fed.us
tedepierce@fs.fed.us
503-808-2732
877-676-6972
541-929-2840
541-969-2177
503-808-2143
541-389-3526
541-643-1924
1-800-447-3558
503-235-9999
503-231-6174
541-915-6373
503-510-2388
509-949-2825
541-963-7993
509-529-2848
541-218-2748
503-945-7437
541-815-2030
503-724-2597
541-610-3023
541-602-2637
503-808-2466
541-410-5714
503-808-2328
503-808-2722
NFCA
NFCA
NWSA
TSWCA
TSWCA
NFTCH
NFTCH
USFS/ BLM
USFS
USFS/ BLM
NWCC
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