Fall 2011 PNW Incident Commander Advisory Council Meeting
Minutes for 11/14/2011
Meeting started on Time. Brian Watts led us through a quick review of the agenda and introductions.
PNWCG Comments and perspectives: Pam Ensley shared information from her recent meetings and
discussions. Thanks from PNWCG to all IC’s and the IC Council. Some changes in the works: Carl
Gossard is changing positions and Joe Shramek will be taking his position. PNWCG working teams, staff,
and Committee Members are all listed on website. Ken Snell will lead discussion on use of IMT’s during
2011 later on the agenda. PNWCG will host safety workshop in 2011. PNWCG is trying to build solid
communication models similar to the IHC involvement that provides direct access to PNWCG for engine
bosses and contractors. They are looking at sustainable organizations for dispatch. The ‘Adopt a Team’
process still in place and will continue. This program has provided $120,000.00 dollars to date. PNWCG
is soliciting topics for National MAC consideration for Carl to bring forward. Pam mentioned team
rotations, DHS Security measures, succession planning, Risk Management issues, and efforts to search
for common direction in fire issues from both the DOI and USDA. Pam also thanked AD’s for their
efforts and contributions.
ODF Perspective: Nancy Hirsch. Thanks for your year around commitment. ODF is very busy and
committed to going into the 2012 ready to be effective and efficient. Building and maintaining
trustworthy, dependable relationships and partnerships will continue to be important. Partnerships
with private land owners are still very important. Thanks for the opportunity to address the ICs.
Landowner Perspective: Mike Dykzeul (OFIC). Appreciate the proactive arrangement of working with
all the cooperators and including OFIC’s participation and partnership referenced in the revised 2011 IC
Charter. We value the improvements in relationships. We recognize the year round commitment of all
parties involved. 2011 was a successful fire season from our standpoint. Agencies have policies and
Landowners have expectations. Sometimes the two are in conflict. We appreciate the leadership of Ken
Snell and Carl Gossard for providing guidance and interpretation of policy when necessary to meet both
needs. Previous relationships have been solid and we hope for continued strong support from their
replacements. Looking forward to continued involvement with the IC Council.
IHC Working Team Report: Eric Miller. It was a busy season for the PNW IHC’s. The accident that
occurred, involved a White Fir, in Alaska provided a good lessons learned opportunity – consistent
medical response because of consistent training and protocols. On the Dollar Fire the doubled up C&G
did not work out real well from our standpoint. Other items mentioned – Trainer/Trainee require
continued efforts to be effective, Leader’s Intent being clear at all levels is still an issue, R-6 is ahead of
most other Regions in this arena, flexibility is important, IC’s attending some of the AAR’s was cool,
attending and conducting pre-strategy meetings is a valuable, suggest having consistent forms for PNW
teams for First aid protocols, IHC involvement with T3 IMT’s would be helpful whenever possible, T3
IMT’s need more support from the system to support incidents, utilized the IHC Code of Conduct when
needed, discuss problems at the lowest level possible whenever possible, call IHC leadership if need be
but the Code of Conduct is designed to help us all, IHC’s are here to provide a service, look for new
technology ways to do remote briefings instead of just doing radio briefings, invite Jeff Pendleton to
annual IHC meeting to discuss risk assessment models, What can we do for you?
Q. What are IHC’s doing for successional planning? Not as much as we could be. We need to be more
involved with IMT’s and more involved in non-operational capacities. There is still probably some
traditional resistance to change in the IHC Organizations. Super crew with 25 crew members was
discussed. Eric offered to stick around to discuss issues for the rest of the day.
National Wildfire Cohesive Strategy Update: Joe Stutler. Handout issued. Summary of Strategy. All
Details available at forestandrangelands.gov. Joe shared his enthusiasm for the federally led
cooperative committee. There was a great response from a host of stake holders. Currently working in
Phase III. Joe did a review of the goals and objectives as listed in the report cited. Joe stated that a
position paper was forthcoming about the status of this program that captures ‘immediate success’
examples. This has been a successful significantly collaborative effort
Evolving Incident Management: Pam Ensley. In addition to her power point she read the following
conclusions/action items that have been prepared by her committee. She stated that these would be
officially announced soon.
1. Increase participation for fire personnel by placing the requirements for involvement in their
Position Descriptions.
2. Management (Agency Administrators) involvement placing personnel on IMT’s.
3. Real target relief for impacts from IMT service.
4. Agency Administrator Position Descriptions would also would contain IMT involvement
concerns.
5. Reduce current number of IMT’s in service. Fewer teams exercised more.
6. T1 and T2 IMT’s would be the same complexity for the most part.
7. Configure teams to be more responsive, Ramp ups and ramp downs.
8. Increase number of trainees on IMT’s to 14.
9. Utilize local trainees and emphasis on GACC involvement.
10. National rotation kicks in at Planning Level 3.
11. NIMO rolled into GACC.
12. Revamp of training expectation – better crosswalks, shorter timeframes, DHS models.
13. Develop guide for all NWCG Participants.
14. Agency Administrators to be involved with team rosters and IMT selection.
NWCG Website has lots of postings that address a collection of comments gathered during this
committees assignment – there has been lots of very successful collaboration.
Use of teams in 2011: Ken Snell. Discussion of 2011 season and exploration and feedback for NWCG on
issues identified. Basically two items that occurred this year that Ken mentioned. Item one, Dollar Lake
Fire north side of Mt. Hood. Reaction was that initial efforts were not aggressive. Complexity rating
developed. Type II team assigned. Lots of high Haines days and fire spread events. Discussed placing a
NIMO team in place to address high complexity rating for duration. Concerns about transition existed.
Looked at National availability for Type I teams. Decided to overlay Jeff’s Pendleton’s on the
assignment. This created some problems by placing two teams into assigned status even though both
teams were not completely assigned. Lesson learned, IF, this ever gets done again, let the Type I C&G
ride out the high Haines days and then bring in the rest of the Type I Team to complete the transition.
NW Team stated that they made the best out it and learned some stuff from the experience. PNW3
stated that it was very clear that Teams are expected to travel as short teams so that was not an issue.
Transitions always impact a lot of personnel. Overall it did not appear to be the most effective way to
implement the IMT coverage for this incident. Agency Administrators on the Mt Hood expressed that
they were positive with the events. Future will continue to require flexibility for all teams and
approaches involved. Item 2 – Short and Long team configurations, as per defined by National Mob
Guide. Incident requested the fire be staffed WA with short team. Could not put together a short team
from WA so Central Oregon IMT mobilized. First action taken was to demob some of the crews. Fire
was in remote areas and could not be staffed with all personnel assigned. WA Geo board is in discussion
about lessons learned from this incident. Other topics: ORCA/ODF collaborated on a short team
assignment also that appeared to go OK, but concerns about availability of the rest of the team
surfaced. ORCA went straight from the short team assignment to a long team assignment. There is
reluctance to break up an IMT by sending it short and leaving the long portion still at home. Looks like
WA IMT’s are probably going to adjust or at least discuss WA protocols to allow for short teams, (10),
standard teams (27) and long teams (50). Majority of incidents over the years required long teams and
will probably continue to but if we could lock in on an approach that provides a quick and effective
short team to deal with the incidents that do not require a full staff approach. Development of some
pre-designated short teams for the PNW region may be a valuable contribution. Agency Administrators
need to know what products are produced by which team members and what products are not available
to them when short teams are engaged vs. long teams. Perhaps development of a list of the products
that are produced at short, standard and long configuration levels. Host units need to be clear with
what their needs are in order to request the correct level of management. Ken thought that 2011
decisions by Agency Administrators in regards to size of IMT were sound. Good discussion team size
issues. Need to examine the training for fire fighters if the expectations are going to change on how
IMT’s travel and work together. The ‘27’ configuration is unrealistic in these times. We need to define
what the skill set required is and examine the National mob standard. Need to forward this action item
to Carl for the national meeting.
Ken brought up one last item – How we manage IMT’s in the PNW. The region is headed towards a
model that allows more governance and involvement at the regional working team level that provides
OWT involvement on the state Geoboards. Regional consistency will be gained by providing a
governance structure that is fair and consistent across the PNW. Other areas of the nation are already
practicing this approach.
Status of 2010/2011 IC Council Working Topics:
Deliberate Risk Assessment - Jeff Pendleton issued a handout and discussed. Handout addressed all
the points that Jeff verbally touched on. Suggestion: The next phase of this process would be to
champion this item and develop ways to integrate this process into our risk assessments. Whether that
occurs by adopting forms that have been developed or process that is being developed and utilized. We
are not complete with this process or more importantly, how to utilize the results, of deliberate Risk
Assessment. A couple of more years are going to be needed to continue to transition towards the types
of products we are looking for. Clearing house for methods being developed or forms or success stories
where we could develop a consistent or more helpful ‘training’ package that spreads the word on how
and where this process is going. Do not overcomplicate the process. This is not just about safety or
operations. All staff areas need to be involved in this process. Continue to work on developing the
atmosphere for cultural change that it will take to develop and implement this DRA product.
Recommendation Ideas Discussed: Continue to work on this. Develop a clearing house to gather the
work accomplished to date. Have a core group of folks that can spread the word on a common vision of
where this is all going, that could travel to incidents. Utilize a webinar approach to help spread the word
in a cost efficient. Discuss at upcoming safety workshop. Dedicate a work group that already has some
of the funding needed to develop a working group that can champion this cause.
Dutch Creek Protocols – Mike Morcom. Oregon teams have bought off on the protocols that have been
developed. PNW Type I teams and WA teams need to adopt what has already been developed.
Recommendation Ideas Discussed: Provide the Dutch Creek protocols to Regional Working Group and
Geo Boards that re-describes Dutch Creek protocols and looks to generate discussion and seeks
‘approval’ by all jurisdictional authorities. PNWCG interagency teams are all on board and OR teams
are going to discuss this Spring. Documents could be included in OR Geo board Operation guide and
available to all parties.
PNW IMT Succession Planning – Larry Nickey January spreadsheet will be distributed looking at where
are we all going to be over the next 5 years.
IT – “Adopt a Team” - Brian updated all. Program is still up and running. Dollars are available.
Equipment has been ordered. Be responsible on your spending.
Equity with Team Dispatches – Being worked on by Geoboard. Can be closed out
Rapid Transition Team - Can be closed out.
Standardizing Evacuation Levels – Recommendation Ideas Discussed: Folks leaning towards going to a
two level approach but WA legal requirements three tiered approach. This item is as far along as we
can take it at this time. No further work is required at this time.
Miscellaneous Topics:
Incident Business Management folks will be here in afternoon and at their meeting in Hood River
tomorrow. Any Issues expected? New IBMH is coming out in Spring. Being re-formatted to be more inline with red book.
Oregon Geo Board will visit our meeting after they conclude their assignment and share the results with
the IC Council.
Team AARs:
State Fire Marshall Team – Doug Koellermeir
Elk Fire went quickly, both mobilization and de-mobilization and
High Cascade Complex – mobed 4 additional TF. C&G and joined the ORCA team that had been
assigned. Structural protection. Active fire. Backfires. A volunteer crew went in a river to avoid a
burnover. Social media response blew it out of proportion. Quick Mob and DeMob went well.
ORCA – High Cascades, 34 fires in the area, wanted team to take the 3 biggest fires. Took the biggest
fire at on at 18:00. Other two fires soon after. T-cells persisted for days. Fire Marshall resources were
also assigned to team. This incident looked like a 2 team event because of travel times and complexity.
Confusion with Agency Administrator and local coordination matters. The State Fire Marshall team was
brought in but real short, probably too short. Highway closures were an hourly event. Tunnel Fire got
interesting. Tried to intervene but had to pull out as ceiling began to collapse. By next morning all wood
in the tunnel had burned up. Large TFR managed OK for the most part. 38 trainees utilized. Fire
managed on one charge number.
Went to another fire that went well
Lone Mt. 92 acres. When RAT team got back to ICP they reported that fire was lined and 60 percent
plumbed. Started demobing and cancelling orders. Went well.
Brian Goff – BIA and Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs (CTWS) are two different agencies and are
recognized as such. CTWS was confused about complexity and type of team needed. CTWS maintained
IA responsibility. Shared resources with all teams. Started with a couple of fires initially and then
inherited a couple more. That helped team. Worked all fires under one charge number which helped.
Did some in house re-organizing on the team to adjust to circumstances (i.e. assigned Dep IC to Strategic
Ops for a couple of days). Transition(s) went well. Swing shift initiated to aid in effective burning
operations. Palm IR utilized by CTWS. Feller buncher utilized. Needed Dutch Creek protocol data points
to ease the work load. Invite and include CTWS on IMT’s in the future. Good fire overall.
Washington Fires - Team 1 - Salmon Fire. Negotiated for entire team to be on fire. 2000 acre +/- lots
of potential structural protection in the area. Canadian crews on fire. They wear red shirts, the
corrections crews wear red shirts so Canadian crews went over to yellow nomex. Shelters for Canadian
crews were needed. Negotiated for IMT resources needed and discussed products available or not
available depending on how many folks travel on IMT. On fire 6 days went well.
Dave LaFave – Monestary Fire, Goldendale, WA, 4000 ac, 113 structures lost. 1062 FF’s at peak. Rolling
transition went smoothly. Took fire at 0600. Heavy with state mob resources. Good thing state mob
resources were available because other resources were not as available. State Mob resources did a
great job of doing all aspects of the job. Fire burned through a lot of structures and provided a lot of risk
of re-burning structures. Co-located Team with Evac Center. This was initially a concern but ended up
being a good thing because it helped shut down the rumors and kept us all on the same page. There
was a lot of community interest. Huge community meeting. Highway 97 closures. Issued radios to
WADOT and did rolling closures. Worked out well. Helicopter loans were very helpful Sherriff’s office
was integrated directly into organization. Use of cadaver dogs to assist fire fighters search for
potentially missing publics was helpful. We kept the searches below the radar so that search teams
could perform their duties. New DNR and lands commissioner’s personnel for this fire. They had fire
experience but they were not familiar with the new players as yet. Team facilitated cooperative
atmosphere for all parties. Lots of visits from politicians but they were not political during the visits.
Mark Rapp Central Or IMT – Wallow Fire, NM, AZ mobilized noon on Sunday and transition scheduled
for next day. Travel – flying versus driving? Ops trucks vs. rentals? Costs vs. effectiveness. Were
ordered to replace an existing team so they felt they should have allowed to drive. Plugged in with team
in place and inbriefed. Worked for Area Command. Different approach because Area Command
becomes your direct supervisor and yet teams still need to maintain relationship with local forest and
resources. On this assignment for week. Re-assigned to a very small zone and new National Team was
ordered.
Re-mobilized to Stanley Incident – Started initially with direct ops but fire had access issues and we
negotiated a back off strategy that was much safer for all personnel. VIPER contract cost issues
surfaced. (e.g.$9000.00/ day for fuel tenders) Boundary fire issues on mega fires created some
difficulties. Over all it was a good assignment 14 days
Hancock Incident John Day River – 7 day assignment, because of additional lightning 70,000 acres, full
perimeter control tactic.
Big Hump Fire – Could the region have addressed incident management concerns in a different fashion
then ordering a TYPE 2 IMT? Team members were able to assist NIMO.
Rex Reed – OR assignment, W/W fires, 14 fires, largest 120 acres, in managed fire area, 52 miles SW of
LaGrande. Able to get troops in close to all fires assigned. Had a bit of problem with amperage at ICP
that might have damaged our PC’s. Communications package was helpful to set up quickly. Incident
within an incident drill conducted during assignment.
NW Oregon IMT - Ross Williams – issued a handout.
State of Oregon Team - only had one fire assignment – in Alaska, small fire, 18 person team ordered to
exercise the compact. Evaluated team ordering process and finance issues. Good assignment. Fire
was set up real well before we arrived. Supplemented our team from other areas. We recommended
ordering the entire team (33) when ordering Oregon Team. Logistics is huge. It is big country. 2
medivac transports. Bring demob unit leader with you. Preplanning was not accomplished prior to our
arrival. 30 trainees.
Larry Nickey – No Assignment
PNW2 Morcom – New Mexico, we were able to bring our vehicles, Los Alamos was threatened. Lab was
not threatened but many important issues remained threatened. Fire was not very complex
operationally. Sensitive political issues were prevalent and IC was consumed by these matters. WFSA
document was huge and not very helpful to team. Press reports were not helping. Pueblos threatened.
Got to work with Risk Assessment process internally. Focused on the operational aspects with a lot of
discussions and feedback from the ground. Willie Begay was assigned as Liaison Officer which
contributed to our success.
Texas – Assigned to NE Texas, Texas Forest Service, 13,000,000 acre, 13 counties, fatalities, large, multi
burn period fire, Assigned to the EOC in Longview, Texas . Great facility. Bear Creek Fire had no
common communication, no unified command, no IC’s assigned, very little cooperative structure in
place. Sorted through some problems and set up a structure that served everyone. Initially ordered as a
standard (27) team size. Negotiated for 44 folks on assignment. Downsized as assignment evolved.
State coordinated all air craft for the most part. IC Conference calls were set up by the TFS. We did
follow-up on 80 plus fires for TFS. Good assignment. Extended assignment to 21 with little discussion.
Jeff Pendleton – Wallow Fire, VERY FLAMMABLE conditions. 1% humidity, two states, 5 counties, Area
Command, In brief occurred with Area Command and the IMT never really got a briefing. Very political
environment. Governor had her own Blackhawks, Politicians were actively involved. Lots of influences
at play in team selection, public meetings, mandatory evacuations, building relationships, ICP
established in what was billed as a less then supportive county and worked just great with all parties.
DHS handled all HAZMAT incidents, IMT flew to incident. Inbrief expectation was the next day after
mobilization. Performed a strategic Risk Assessment and helped AA’s with difficult decisions. Cost was
not an issue that was discussed.
Dollar Lake Fire – some earlier discussion has mentioned this fire already. Bull Run Watershed, lots of
PVT land interests, established stakeholders meeting and that addressed everyone’s concerns.
Transition overlaps, good assignment
Area Command – George Chesley, Wallow Fire, 538,000 ac. 3 IMT’s on assignment when they arrived.
Fire Behavior was extreme. Briefing was rushed. Dugger’s team was name requested from high ranking
politicians. There were some serious issues between the tribal interests. The Forest Supervisor was
brand new on the Apache-Sitgreaves NF, Some shadow in place also, Rodeo Chediski fire influenced
operations on this fire, 90 PIO’s on fire when they arrived. There was a need for info but there was also
a need to get an organization in place to deal with the PIO branch, evacuations occurred, major
transmission line running thru the fire area that directed strategy development, lots of political visits, we
had a strong local Liaison Officer that helped a bunch with Fire Departments, Law enforcement was well
coordinated, fuels treatment areas were effective near towns, NG aircraft assigned, two states, multiple
counties, working for Regional Forester.
NIMO – Nick Giannettino. West Texas assignments and a non-fire assignment in Washington Office.
Shadow Lake assignment – Strategic Risk Assessment produced by Willamette, foundation of entire fire
actions, tried new ideas, cooperators were involved in plan development. We are improving every time
we go out, continue to tell the story of fire in the landscape, 13 PIO’s on fire, many were trainees, Info
was filtered out of camp and into social media with strike team of PIO types, Local resources were
utilized. Phone system was lacking at initial ICP location, virtual social media opportunities for future?
Mandatory Evac of large campground went very well in 2 hours only, Risk Management principles need
to stay on front burner, two Forests did a great job, AA’s were well coordinated on both Forests. MIMIT
Support was outstanding. Pretty darn close to plug and play. Google Earth utilization was used in
planning meetings. May be some application for Google briefings, 75 Trainees assigned. Cache support
was great. Operations – define strategy early on and plans can be made quickly, Had hard time staffing
Heliport. Coordination with Central OR team was great. Pre-designated ICP’s should be screened for IT
capabilities.
Video concerning this fire can be seen at projectwildfire.org
Identification of Priority Issues/Topics for Further Discussion
1. Deliberate Risk Assessment – See previous notes from working topics for all comments made
during this portion. Sand table exercise?
2. Continue to support ongoing Successional Planning efforts.
3. Support OR Geo Board – educating team members
4. Support Evolving Incident Management - educating team members
5. Type III level Incident Management Personnel – Formally develop process that gets Type III
teams plugged into these meetings.
6. Mob Guide – How to get guide looked at
Brian facilitated a voting process to gain consensus from participants on items to work on in 2012.
Joe Stutler agreed to take on items 3, 4, and 5 if those items are lumped into one. Mark Rap and Ken
Paul agreed to help Joe.
Larry Nicky continue working on Item 2 with PNWCG.
Jeff Pendleton volunteered to draft a letter to Carl Gossard concerning item 6.
Jeff Pendleton will be lead for item 1, Brian Goff, Rex Reed, Dave LaFave and Brian Watts to help Jeff.
Write-up from the team leads are due to Brian by December 1st to present to the December 8th PNWCG
meeting.
Next IC Council meeting begins the afternoon of April 30th and ends at noon on May 1st in Hood River.
Dean Vendrasco updated IC Council with results of the OR Geo Board discussion.