Pacific Northwest Wildland Coordination Group
Aviation Working Team Meeting Notes
January 20, 2009
Attendees:
Jon Rollens (USFS-Chair), Gary Sterling (USFS), Alison Robb (BLM Acting SAM), Joel Kerley
(BIA New-Vice Chair), Jim Ziobro (ODF), Ken Snell (USFS PNWCG Rep.), Dennis Carlson
(WADNR New-Chair) on the phone.
Alison Robb from Mount Rainier NP is an employee detailed into the BLM SAM position. She
was introduced to everyone in the meeting and on the phone.
*Radio Frequency Letters – Scott Dewitz called into the conference call. – Two letters were
discussed. Any frequencies issues can be referred to Dave Glose in Scott’s absence.
Frequencies for 0r07 and 0r02 are still not final. The 30th of Jan is the last date to get this dialed
in. Some new air to ground frequencies are being worked with John Molder to get finalize.
Letters for point of contact went out in December and only a few that have come back. Greg
Loper has been coordinating with ODF for frequencies and it looks like those are going to work
out. Future letters should go out under the AWT Chair to cover all the agencies. Scott and Gary
will compare notes and get to Jon a list of those that have responded so that he can craft a
reminder letter to the FMO’s who have not responded. Dennis asked about the distribution
process for the guides. Generally they are printed out of SORO. The SAM has taken that on in
the past. The Representative for AWT gets copies to distribute for that agency.
*Coop Approval Protocols - Would like to get these standards sanctioned by the AWT. The
fire standards can be taken out if warranted. Jim Ziobro has two types of situations that he would
be dealing with. This standard is good, and all of ODF contracted helicopters are federally
carded. Jim needs to prepare their contractors before the FS inspectors arrive. In the past Steve
Smith has rubber stamped these cooperator letters. Joel Kerley will be meeting with the new
AMD Area Director and start the process. Carding last year was late in occurring due to being
awarded late. Approval letters are posted on the SORO website. Jon Rollens will check on the
web address for this and get it to the group. There is a national standard the State are working
on that is still in draft and should be referenced in this PNW standard. Will go to respective
agencies to look at the standards and report back to Jon by February 13. Plans are to have this
tied off prior to field season for the FS as well.
*PNWCG Tasking (Hoist Capability) – Larry Aragon was on the conference call. Jon asked
Larry Aragon, ATGS from La Grande, to brief the AWT. The purpose for today was to get a
status report so that we can get this to PNWCG on time. Larry went over the requirements for a
Hoist equipped helicopter. Standards vary from agency and model of aircraft.
He conducted a survey of dispatch units in the Region and received a very good response.
Center Managers are very knowledgeable about their areas. Larry has the questionnaires back
and has compiled the information into a map of the locations. All agencies are willing to assist
with rescue depending on their current tasking. Oregon Guard is being deployed and probably
won’t be as available as in the past. The Idaho NG will be lending a HH-60A to Salem for
coverage this summer. ORNG acting state aviation manager is Mark Olden. We should not
plan to have the normal compliment of guard personnel available this year. The medevac ship
may not have medical personnel along, but will have extraction capability. The Guard can only
commit for emergency response and not for standby for a fire. Rare only located a life flight in
Utah. Contractors are probably willing to step up for a long term contract, but not for a short term.
A Washington DNR helicopter (911MR) has the equipment, but won’t operate it due to the risk
and cost. Unless there was some really significant reason the hoist stays in storage. Larry
discussed the maps that he prepared and showed the realistic 1 hour range of the helicopter.
Idaho NG is not staffed 24 hours a day as is the aircraft in Salem. The US Coast Guard is staffed
24 hour, but none are willing to preposition. Coast Guard doesn’t really have a definite area that
they will respond in. The areas on the
maps that are not covered are those
with a lot of fire and greatest need for
response.
Alison does a lot of hoist on Mount
Rainier. Fuel issues from some of the
NG units are a big problem. If we
bring them to a fire we have to have
fuel available onsite or very near.
Response time is usually takes 1-2
hours to get the helicopter off the
ground. The Guard is adamant about
getting a briefing in the area they are
operating from. They are experienced
at rescue, but are limited to about
7,000 feet due to performance and
loading. Idaho Guard flies A models
Oregon Guard flies the V models. We
need to have a good understanding of
the capabilities of the aircraft that we
are tasking.
The take home message is that these
are iffy resources. If you are putting
resources in locations where you are
relying on this capability you are over extended. Larry is working up additional text language to
describe more completely than the maps. Alison also suggested the possibility of putting on a
civilian medical person on board the Guard ship. There is one other National Guard resource out
of Pendleton that has the primary mission is lifting cargo, but not staffed with personnel to
respond for medical response.
Short-haul was discussed in an Operations Working Team meeting but not part of this tasking.
Jon will coordinate with the Ops working team to coordinate recommendations. Ken thinks that
the most important thing is the capabilities and limitations for the teams to understand. Alison
noted that there are limitations on the medical evacuation equipment available at most fires.
Wheel litters would be a good addition for teams. Jim is going to send Larry the information that
he gets from the Oregon National Guard, and the protocols that ODF has established for hoist
use. Ken’s parting message was to not to limit the information that we provide to the Steering
Committee to what is specifically in this task order.
*Master Agreement – Operating Plan – Add Special Appropriation (Severity) language to the
Operating plan for ODF aircraft. Resources are contracted on a guarantee for an exclusive use
period. If attached to a team there will be a four hour guarantee per day along with it. Changes
were; change some of the bold and underline parts to normal font, to add a statement about
cooperator approval for federal incidents, adding in the FAR 1.1 definition for operator, and
references to WADNR helicopters was made more generic where possible.
UAO Meeting Agenda – Meeting is planned for February 3 -4 and is a Forest Service/BLM
working group that meets early on so as to have staff work done in time to present at the annual
aviation meeting later in the spring. The USFS and BLM is close to getting the web based PASP
done soon. Has taken the system safety and rolled it into the PASP process.
Agency Reports
BIA – Joel is leaving for an Interagency meeting on R&D for chemicals with San Dimas.
Meetings are generated a strategic look ahead for the next 10-15 years. Washington DNR is
interested in the Fire Boss (AT-802 on floats). Put a bigger engine and the aircraft on floats
performs well. Canada has ordered 17 of them. WADNR and BIA are entering into a joint
contract for a Fire Boss. The CL-215’s are expensive, and BIA is looking for partners to share
contracts with. This year they are going to try to put retardant on the scooper for the first drop and
then use them to scoop after the retardant has been dropped. There are a lot of questions with
this. BIA is planning to have them at Deer Park again. Glad to see that WADNR is committed to
interagency approvals, which makes it very nice to deal with.
Warm Springs along with everyone else wants to upgrade their exclusive use helicopters to an
Astar.
NPS – The On Call Contract has created some problems and a new modification designed to
correct them was issued in mid-January. Clay developed an on-line training scenario that looks
at the contract ordering and payment options and would make that available if requested.
The new AMR Regional Director Gary Kunz was named and starts in February. NPS contract
and fleet flight hours were 1903 for 2008. We have a 3,033 five year average hours of flight time,
so we are down some this year. Looking at the Redbook changes – System safety, exclusive use
helicopter staffing has changed for us. Clay is helping Shad Sitz to rewrite the risk management
portion of IHOG. NPS Reference Manual (RM) -60 may be revised and let the Department
Manual (DM) follow its own course. DM’s are hung up on a single issue and when they will be
published is unknown. Several changes in our RM are based on proposed DM changes.
ODF – Planning to have the same aircraft as they have in the past.
USFS Next meeting April 14 and the Chair will be Dennis Carlton with Joel Kerley as the Vice-chair.
Jon Rollens will represent the AWT at the February 18-19 meeting of the Steering committee.
Other Business
Note taking. Clay will take notes and distribute for this next year.