Aviation Working Team Meeting Notes
April 14, 2009
Attendees;
John Rollens (USFS), Jim Ziobro (ODF), Chris Hice (BLM), Clay Hillin (NPS), Gary Sterling
(USFS), Dennis Carlson (WADNR).
The meeting began a little after 9:00 AM with a review of the agenda and the notes from the last
AWT meeting. The following was discussed during this process;
☼ National Flight Following frequency toning implementation is still undecided.
☼ Master Agreement Operations Plan should be coming out soon.
☼ Chair term was discussed. Dennis will take over as Chair next year. Jon Rollens will
continue as Chair until then. The transition is planned to be in October.
New Business;
Review of PNWCG Documents: The Steering Committee has been restructuring and defining
PNWCG. Pat Kelly facilitates the steering committee meetings and keeps them on track. The
Chair and vice chairs of all the working teams were involved in a meeting in February, which Jon
attended. The AWT went over a number of the Strategic Directions in the document he supplied,
and briefly we found; that the meeting with chairs and vice-chairs are most likely going to
continue, the development of a policy matrix similar to the AWT Policy Matrix across the board for
all areas is planned, Safecom access is documented in the Annual Working Plan. This latter
element was discussed and found that the AWT didn’t know of any restriction for state or federal
personnel to the Safecom data. Gary discussed possible changes in the works for the Safecom
system that would make the system more pertinent for accident prevention purposes.
Review AWT Accomplishment/Hoist Tasking Package/One Page Handout. We reviewed the
accomplishment package that was presented to PNWCG to include the One Page Handout for
Incident Management Teams (IMT) that Jon prepared and added to the package. The one
pager, provides a realistic acknowledgement of the actual capability that may be available, which
is a very limited amount. It is hopped that the IMT can understand this capability doesn’t exist
and should plan accordingly. The best advice from this study/staff work is that this desired
capability is just not there and that Fire Managers should not to rely on it.
Review of new Helicopter Medivac Tasking. Gary Sterling and a group are on a separate
tasking outside of the AWT perview will continue to look into the safety aspects for evacuation
capabilities. Issues they will look at are; what is needed to request a helicopter with hoist
capability from a medical standpoint, what can we provide to IMTs, and when is it appropriate.
Medical personnel on scene make the decision based on the patients condition and this may vary
of each individual for example a bee sting for one is critical, but not for another. This information
will be applicable for Districts and Forests as well. This has broader application for others
working in the field. Jim Ziobro offered the ODF Procedures Manual discussion regarding
medical evacuations and Gary thought it would make a good starting point. Gary is in the process
of forming a committed to accomplish this. Several names were offered to Gary for members.
Aviation Frequency Guide is on its final leg to being printed. Jon distributed a hard copy to the
AWT to make a final review.
Aviation Awareness Meeting. This annual meeting is planned to be held at Welches Resort at
the Mountain in May. So far not an abundance of persons have registered at the hotel. Budgets,
meetings, training etc. are affecting the ability of people to travel. Many people are getting much
of this information at other meeting that they are attending. Historically Dispatchers and UAO
have been the ones who have attended. The information is important to get out and it was
discussed that the persons who really needed the information were the collateral duty UAOs.
Other workshops have changed their agendas to include more aviation information sharing. The
status of this meeting is that Jon is planning to wait until the end of the week to see if there is
sufficient interest to be viable. It was agreed that the number of attendees should be 25 or more
in order to make the meeting worth the investment of time for the presenters.
Discussion of this meeting led into a discussion regarding information transfer, standardizing,
mentoring, etc.
Cooperator Approval Protocol Implementation. Jon shared the standards that his team have
developed for helicopter and fixed wing aircraft to meet USFS aviation standards and is planning
to put this into practice this year. Inspectors will report deficiencies to Jon who will make a
decision on the approval of those aircraft. The West Area AMD Director has not been contacted
directly by Jon on this. Jon is using Joe Kerley as a conduit to get this information to AMD. The
State organizations have been working on a set of standards for FEPP aircraft with a lot more
maintenance detail. This document that Jon provided is the CWN standard which parallels the
State initiative. It was proposed that the AWT provide an approval of these standards for all the
agencies.
PNW Aviation Operations Field Guide/User Guide. This guide has been well received by the
field. It contains the information that they need in a concise format that can’t be found anywhere
else. Chris Hice will be sending out the Guide and other information electronic files to the AWT
members on a CD-ROM.
Individual Agency Reports.
ODF
ODF will pretty much have the same aircraft as last year except for the type 1 helicopter. Jim
advised the AWT that the Oregon State budget is in bad shape. Legislators will probably be
working on the budget until they go home in June. ODF employees are restricted on travel and
can’t go out of state without permission from higher up. Fire Management is trying to keep the
same level of protection they have had in previous years.
There is a bill in congress for the National Guard to do more fire fighting. However, the Guard is
not looking for any work. Jim thinks that we won’t have the helicopter shortage that we have had
in the past. Logging and oil exploration are slowed down due to the economy. Managers are
getting calls from helicopter vendors sniffing for work.
WADNR
Plans to have 9 helicopters (Hueys and Cobras) available for federal approval this year. This is
the first year that WADNR will have all of the returning pilots from last year, which will add stability
to the program. Dennis came up with a way to hire them through the winter so that their medical
benefits were maintained. This saves money since it doesn’t have to be spent on training a new
pilot.
The Cobra helicopters in Florida have been affected by an announcement by Bell helicopter that
the Cobra was not designed for the fire fighting mission, they are not airworthy, and Bell will not
stand behind them. This issue has raised its head again and Florida has stepped away from their
cobras because of the Bell helicopter announcement. The Washington State Lands
Commissioner plans to keep the WADNR Cobras flying.
Degrees decimal minutes vs. degrees minute seconds. Dennis went to Dispatch and asked if the
helicopters could be dispatched in degrees and decimal minutes. They said they could do this
with the software they possess. Jim will take the issue to NIAC to see if the standard for dispatch
could be degrees and decimal minutes.
PBY – There is an opportunity for the PBY to regain a contract with WADNR. A new contract will
be sought through the BIA for WADNR water dropping capability. The PBY owner thinks that the
aircraft can be brought up to the standards needed to obtain approval and the contract. The
contract should be awarded in May, but there are doubts that the PBY will be able to be brought
up to the required standards in time. However, the ATB Tank inspection was passed.
WADNR is going to try to get the Hueys type certificates. This was brought to the attention of the
WADNR by the FAA as a suggestion to alleviate much of the administrative work required.
USFS
Region 6 will have 3 leased king airs for lead planes this year. The staffing challenge is going to
be their ability to fly them all with the pilot they have. The big emphasis will be to get pilots hired
for these positions. There have been discussions with Region-10 to combine the aviation
program with Region-6. Aviation Managers feel they don’t have the staff required and that both
programs will suffer.
R-6 will have the same amount of rappellers this year from last. Efforts are being focused on
obtaining stimulus money for a rappel base for Central Oregon. The pavement in La Grande
needs repair and the Region is also seeking money for this. The numbers of smoke jumpers will
be the same as in the past. A couple of things that were identified in the latest aerial delivered
firefighter study that are being looked at Regionally are; the two smokejumper bases are looking
at combining the management, and the possibility of combining Sled Springs and Frazier Rappel.
The Region should have all the same numbers of helicopter and SEAT aircraft. An S-61 and 10
other aircraft that were awarded. The US Forest Service conducted a risk analysis on whether to
haul people in them. Mark Roundsville is the decision maker on this. R-6 has a feeling they
haven’t worked out all the bugs for hauling people.
BLM
The SAM meeting was held last week and the major topic was the lack of an adequate budget for
this year. BLM plans to field the same type and number of aircraft as last year. A major concern
is for aquatic mussels and how their threat is going to be mitigated. A plan similar to that used to
control weeds on trucks may be implemented. This will affect flight operations. SEI issued
another note on the bambi bucket cleaning to use bleach. One of the lessons learned from the
SEAT accident last year was to keep the ground crews away from SEAT operations the same
way we do for helicopter bucket operations.
BLM is trying to standardize the configuration of the helitack crews. This is another item that is
budget driven. Priority will be given to the rest of the western states. Depending on the money
left after awarding helicopters, more SEATS may be awarded on 30-60 day contracts. Chris Hice
has been serving as the Acting SAM and his detail ends in July.
NPS
Flight activity was around 2000 hours last year, 1000 less than the five year average.
Majority of time is involved this year in Law Enforcement counter drug operations and getting
agreements and waivers in place for this season.
We have exclusive use contracts for fire at Sequoia and Kings Canyon (AS-350 B2, Rogers), and
Yosemite (BHT-205A-1++, Kachina). This year we are advertising for a CWN Helicopter for
Short-haul and North Cascades NP.
Hawaii has an On Call Contract RFP that is being refreshed and hopefully awarded sometime
soon. It is planned for this on call contract to do away with the ARA. The lower-48 small
helicopter on call contract has been through some growing pains. A modification was done in
January that provides for one day fire and a couple of hiring options for non-fire.
The next scheduled AWT meeting is July 21. The following meeting will be October 20.