(c) crown copyright Catalogue Reference:CAB/23/30 Image Reference:0010 C A B I N E T (22) 32 COBOLUS10US of & M e e t i n g o f t h e C a b i n e t h e l d a t 1 0 , D o m i n g S t r e e t , S . W . , on F r i d a y , 2 n d J a n e , 198,2, a t 1 1 a . r a . R E S E 1 T-ir The P r i m e M i n i s t e r The E i g h t H o n . A . C h a m b e r l a i n , Lord Privy Seal The E i g h t Hon. V i s c o u n t Lord Chancellor (in the The R i g h t Hon. t h e E a r l o f B a l f o u r , K . G . , O.M., L o r d P r e s i d e n t of t h e C o u n c i l . K.P.. Birhenhesd, Chair) . The E i g h t of Hon. S i r R o b e r t H o m e , Chancellor t i i e Esre&equer.- S h e R i g h t Hon. W . S . C h u r c h i l l , The E i g h t Hon. B . S h o r t t , K . O . . I I . P . t S e c r e t a r y o f s t a t e f o r Home A f f a i r s M . P . , S e c r e t a r y o f s t a t e f o r the Colonies. The E i g h t Hon. V i s c o u n t P e e l , G . 3 . E S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r I n d i a . The E i g h t Hon. s i r l . W o r t h i n g t o n Evans, B a r t . , M.P., S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r War. The E i g h t H o n . L o r d L e e o f f a r e h a m , S.S.S., P l r s t L o r d of the Admiralty. The R i g h t H o n . S t a n l e y B a l d w i n , M . P . , P r e s i d e n t of the Board of Trade. The R i g h t Hon.' s i r A l f r e d Mond, B a r t . * IS*£., M i n i s t e r o f H e a l t h . The S i g h t Hon. H . A . L . P i s h e r , M . P . , P r e s i d e n t of t h e B o a r d o f Education. The R i g h t Hon. s i r A r t h u r G r i f f i t h Boseawen, M . P . , M i n i s t e r of Agriculture & fisheries. E h e R i g h t Hon. T . J . M a c n a m a r a , M. r . , M i n i s t e r o f L a b o u r . The E i g h t Hon. S i r Hamar G r e e n w o o d , B a r t . , K.C., M.P., Chief S e c r e t a r y for Ireland. The R i g h t Hon. t h e E a r l o f C r a w f o r d & B a i c a r r e s , K/T., F i r s t C o m m i s s i o n e r of W o r k s , The f o l l o w i n g w e r e a l s o She R i g h t Hon. " V i s c o u n t P i t s A l a n o f Derwent. G.C.V.O., D.S.O., Lord L i e u t e n a n t of I r e l a n d , S i r Edward C r i g g , E.CV.O. , Sir M.P.A.Hankey, G.C.B. Mr, T. J o n e s , C.M.G. present:L i e u t . - G e n e r a l the E a r l of Cavan, K . P . , G.C.M.G. , K . C . B . C h i e f of t h e I m p e r i a l G e n e r a l Staff. Mr. L i o n e l C u r t i s . * . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . S e c r e t a r y . -Principal Assistant Secretary (1) With r e f e r e n c e to Cabinet r e a d to the Cabinet the l e t t e r S I ( 2 2 ) , THE PRIME MINISTER h e h a d a d d r e s s e d t o Mr A r t h u r G r i f f i t h dated June 1 , 1922, d e a l i n g w i t h the d r a f t Irish Constitution (Paper S.F.B.-62). explained THE PRIMS MINISTER t h a t t h i s l e t t e r had been handed to the I r i s h a t about 6 o * c l o c k on t h e p r e v i o u s Ministers x eguost evening, with a t h a t t h e y s h o u l d meet the B r i t i s h S i g n a t o r i e s at 5 6-30. f o r m e r c o m p l a i n e d t h a t t h i s g a v e them v e r y l i t t l e The time in which t o c o n s i d e r t h e document, and i t had t h e n been arranged t h a t Mr C o l l i n s a n d Mr G r i f f i t h should s e e the Prime Minister and t h a t t h e f o r m a l r e p l y o f t h e I r i s h M i n i s t e r s handed i n t h i s afternoon. should be I n t h e course of the. i n t e r v i e w w i t h t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r t h e I r i s h l e a d e r s h a d r a i s e d a number of d i f f i c u l t i e s . the attitude the l e t t e r Mr C o l l i n s a l l e g e d t h a t we w e r e t a k i n g o f S h y l o c k s and d e m a n d i n g t h e f u l f i l m e n t of the bond. of He (THE PRIME MINISTER) h a d o u t t h a t we h a d s h o w n o u r b o n a f i d e s up pointed by w i t h d r a w i n g o u r t r o o p s and h a n d i n g o v e r t h e r e v e n u e s o f I r e l a n d t o t h e P r o v i s i o n a l Government. When a s k e d w e r e t h e y p r e p a r e d t o b e in the'Empire, State, or were they s t i l l included contemplating an Independent t h e y h a d r e p l i e d q u i t e d i s t i n c t l y —- b o t h Mr a n d Mr C o l l i n s — t h a t Griffith, they s t o o d by t h e T r e a t y and were w i t h i n t h e Empire, an a d m i s s i o n which didaiot a g r e e w i t h draft Constitution. the strong feeling Mr C o l l i n s h a d l a i d g r e a t s t r e s s prevailing in Ireland against appeals to the J u d i c i a l view of the fact publicly no d o u b t t h a t position, allowing Committee of t h e P r i v y C o u n c i l , in t h a t t h r e e o f t h e J u d g e s w e r e men who h a d Pree Lord C a r s o n , Lord Sumner and Lord G a v e . T h e r e was t h e conduct- of t h e s e J u d g e s had p l a c e d M a j e s t y s Government i n a v e r y awkward and f their on taken up a v e r y h o s t i l e a t t i t u d e to t h e I r i s h State, viz., , His indefensible a n d l i e (THE PRIME MINISTER) h a d a n s w e r e d b y t h a t where a J u d g e h a d taken pe,rt i n a c o n t r o v e r s y stating he would stand a s i d e should questions eome b e f o r e the Court. in political affecting such The p a r t i c i p a t i o n controversy of t h e s e q u e s t i o n s was a g r e a t m i s f o r t u n e , e f f e c t would extend beyond I r e l a n d . Judges and Mr C o l l i n s its had r e p e a t e d l y r a i s e d t h e q u e s t i o n of t h e U l s t e r s i t u a t i o n of our r e s p o n s i b i l i t y for i t , were a t any r a t e i n p a r t and p r e s s e d paying the cost f o r an i m p a r t i a l MINISTER) h a d r e p l i e d i n v i e w of t h e f a c t Enquiry. of the that He (THE PR1MB K i n g d o m a n d t h a t we h a d a g r e e d t o t h e e m p l o y m e n t able. At t h e of for troops which were not m o s t solemn, t e r m s t o t h e I r i s h l e a d e r s , leaders United avail­ c l o s e of t h e i n t e r v i e w he had spoken i n i m p r e s s upon them t h a t the and had s t r i v e n t h e y now h a d t h e b e s t ever had of s e c u r i n g r e a l we "Specials", t h a t U l s t e r was a p a r t of t h e Specials as substitutes and liberty chance for to any their i country, i n a s s o c i a t i o n w i t h a p a r t n e r s h i p of f r e e w h i c h was f i l l i n g a g r e a t p l a c e i n the world . t h e i r i m p a t i e n c e or f o l l y they t h r e w away an If, such as G r a t t a n or C C o n n e l l , would be e x e c r a t e d f o r g e n e r a t i o n s countrymen". out that i f through opportunity which had n e v e r been g i v e n t o any o f t h e g r e a t of the p a s t , nations Irishmen their names t o come b y t h e i r I r e l a n d would never f o r g i v e them. own He p o i n t e d t h e y f a i l e d t o s t a n d by t h e s i g n a t u r e s they had appended to the T r e a t y t h e y would be d i s h o n o u r e d , such conduct would be a d e p a r t u r e for from t h e h i g h and reputation good f a i t h w h i c h I r i s h l e a d e r s h a d e n j o y e d i n t h e They had r e c e i v e d t h e s e o b s e r v a t i o n s without appearing to resent In reply in silence, past. but them. to a question whether the I r i s h l e a d e r s realised t h a t t h e t i m e h a d come f o r t h e m t o c h o o s e b e t w e e n De V a l e r a and t h e t r e a t y , THE PRIME MINISTER s a i d t h a t h e d i d think they quite r e a l i s e d the i s s u e . d i d , b u t Mr C o l l i n s P e r h a p s Mr Griffith a p p e a r e d t o t h i n k t h a t he c o u l d the others along with him. He h a d r e a d t o t h e not carry Irishmen repeatedly, i n t h e c o u r s e of the i n t e r v i e w , clause of the Treaty, the second a n d had i m p r e s s e d u p o n them t h a t p o s i t i o n o f I r e l a n d i n r e g a r d t o t h e Crown must h e w i t h t h a t of Canada. that the reply THE PRIME MINISTER f u r t h e r difficulties Council, identical explained from t h e I r i s h M i n i s t e r s w a s e x p e c t e d 5 or 6 o*clock today, and t h a t the they would probably about make i n r e g a r d t o the Oath, t h e a p p e a l to t h e Privy a n d t h e p o s i t i o n o f t h e R e p u b l i c a n Members o f forthcoming Coalition the Government. THE SECRETARY OP STATE FOR THE COLONIES s a i d we c o u l d n o t possibly g i v e way on t h e q u e s t i o n of r e q u i r i n g t l o n from a l l With regard the M i n i s t e r s of t h e C o a l i t i o n the declara­ Government. to the E l e c t i o n i t s e l f , i t would be b e t t e r the of t h e e l e c t e d p a r l i a m e n t , w a i t u n t i l we knew Sgft c o m p o s i t i o n ^ a n d t h e m e t h o d o f e l e c t i o n , before denouncing I t . The m o r e t h e f e a r to its of renewed w a r f a r e was p r e s e n t to t h e minds o f t h e electors, t h e m o r e l i k e l y w e r e t h e y t o go t o t h e p o l l s a n d support the Treaty. THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL s t a t e d mind,the Parliament be a r e a l t h a t he d i d not being a very imperfect-one, tragedy i f but i t i n d a y s t o come I r i s h m e n a s s e r t e d t h e C o n s t i t u t i o n of t h e i r country had been adopted by P a r l i a m e n t w h i c h d i d not. t r u l y "W might be n e c e s s a r y to t e l l the l e a d e r s t h a t we c o u l d n o t c o n s i d e r t h e E l e c t i o n a s a basis for further l e g i s l a t i o n by t h e I m p e r i a l and t h a t we p r o p o s e d , until their suffrage. therefore, next P a r l i a m e n t , that a represent Ireland , SECRETARY OP STATE PGR THE COLONIES s a i d t h a t t h e June E l e c t i o n i t would to postpone Irish sound Parliament, ratification w h i c h w o u l d b e b a s e d on That would a u t o m a t i c a l l y i n v o l v e a after adult postponement o f t h e d a t e from w h i c h t h e " U l s t e r m o n t h " w o u l d r u n . THE LORD PRESIDENT OP THE COUNCIL p o i n t e d o u t t h a t t h e o b j e c t i o n to t h e course suggested by the S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s w a s t h a t w e s h o u l d b e b l a m e d f o r f a i l i n g to g i v e n o t i c e i n advance of t h i s postponement of r a t i f i c a t i o n , h a v i n g known a l l t h e t i m e t h a t t h e J u n e E l e c t i o n w a s n o t a bona fide, expression of I r i s h p u b l i c o p i n i o n . THR mim HXffXSHR o b s e r v e d t h a t i t , w o u M hardly be possible for the Irish people to turn r o u n d a n d b l a m e u s f o r t h e i r otm a o t f a r d i o e at t h e p o l l i n g booths as if flic s i t u a t i o n w*a n o t t h e same we h a d B r i t i s h s o l d i e r s were e x e r c i s i n g in the country and any presattre f o r or a g a i n s t the expression of opinion. . According to the paet* a n y and e v e r y n a t i o n a l i n t e r e s t i s free to mm i t s own c a n d i d a t e s * ?4R * CHAMBER X*AXH a s k e d w h e t w o u l d b e t h e of Ireland during the period of waiting for s e c o n d P a r l i a m e n t and r a t i f i c a t i o n . would consent t o such postponement of t h e i s s u e s s t a k e u n l e s s t h e r e was i n the meantime OF t h a t ho d i d n o t d i f f e r at very s e n s i b l e improvement i n t h e s i t u a t i o n and SHE the He A i d n o t believe that Parliament or the country protection afforded to the state adequate minority. FOR from t h a t ViK GGISffltEB said view. THE LORD PRIVT S33A&, e o n t i m i i n s , a n i d t h a t s i t u a t i o n i n the South d i f f e r e d from t h a t i n f o r t h i n so much a s t h e R e p u b l i c a n a h a d the the refuaed o u r o f f e r a n d t h a t t h e o n l y p e o p l e -whom t h e J ? r o ­ visional So^rerniient c o n s u l t e d and t r i e d t o were the Republiaans. l o o t i n g went on. conciliate In t h e meantime murder This could n o t c o n t i n u e and ought not to oontlnue* it We h a d d o n e a l l we c o u l d t o implement our s i d e of t h e b a r g a i n . Xt w e e t h e I r i s h l e a d e r s d i d t h e i r s h a r e a n d g a v e nn g that v e r y soon, a Constitution in conformity the and time and with Treaty* / T O BRIMS h x n x s t h r THE mm?, MINISTER observed that having t*eg&rd to all the facts there wae l i t t l e difference between the efforta put forward to deal with outrage between the *3oventente of the north and the Souths In reply to a question ae to the publication of the Irish Constitution the Prime Minister said that the Irish Ministers probably realised that the publication a break with 9 t . * Its original f o m would Involve They sight therefore endeavour to escape from their proviso to Do Vhlera to publish. m*omnomu f \tom&% the qneatlon of the publication of the Constitution ought to be pressed forward now end that we should reelst a fresh pact with De valera to postpone the publication and dissuasion of the Constitution until after the Elections * The people of this country would see through such an arrangement. He had told.*b% Collins In advance of his statecraft to the Houae of commons what he proposed to tell the llaanm in regard to the Constitution end M^*CollinR hf$ agreed*to the line proposed^ In any case whether they published the Constitution or not in Ireland the Important matter wee that we should agree the Constitution with tbesu THE LORD FfUVY SEAL stated that he concurred in the views of the Secretary of State for Colonies, the The draft Irish Constitution was a direct challenge to us* ^e had described It as a negation of the Treaty and we could not behave /as if we I t?0 $ A m if we not asara of i t s ej&stenne* fla m i a t see t h a t t h e y ^*ie3$ly prednee a c o n s t i t u t i o n I n eon­ formlty with the Treaty * I t w a s Imowii t h a t a t this v e r y moment t h e y w e r e p l a c i n g $ r ^ a ^ s f o r arras end i m m t t i e s t s i n t h i s e o n n t r y * i** Belglwis and i n t h e U n i t e d states* Was i t r i g h t t e i g n o r e t h i s p e r i l and a l l o w these preparations C o n s t i t u t i o n m9 it t o he? i n d e f i n i t e l y when we Jaiow that, vastly different their w h a t wo i n t e n d e d I n h i s wlew t h e i s s u e o u g h t t o h e b r o u g h t to a heaeU THE mim nmiSftM suggested that tha dismission was t r a v e r s i n g gjpouad w h i c h h a d h e e n s e w e r e d a t the C a b i n e t on t h e p r e v i o u s d a y ­ %W LORD PHOT SEAL l a i d s t r e s s on t h e of importance the q u - s t i o n s put to the I r i s h l e a d e r s being clearly answered sod t h e i r answars p u b l i s h e d . . THE PRIME MXHXSTKR s a l A - t h a t h e waa a l l f o r on-with tha r e v i s i o n of the C o n s t i t u t i o n but i t t a k e a c o n s i d e r a b l e t l s t a s n d he d o u b t e d i f i t got through before t h e U l a a t i a n . I t hadt going would oould ba ha teai5 i n a i n d t h a t t h a doeucment a d d r e s s e d t o t h e I r i s h leaders an t h e p r e v i o u s day a l t a r a d t h a whole slfcuatian* In the event of unsatisfactory On t h a o t h e r h a n d i f a n s w e r s t h e r e w o u l d ba a b r e a k . t h e a n s w e r s ware s a t i s f a c t o r y isonl&he a b r e a k w i t h Da v*ie?ft* He t h o n g h t t h e there answers o u g h t t o h e p u b l i s h e d end t h a t i f s a t i s f a c t o r y t h e L o r d C h i e f J u s t l a e s h o u l d h a i n v i t e d t o a s s i s t i n t h e amsnd­ ment o f the Constitution. m thought t h e r e mmhl /ha be an agreed eemraunique so that the Xrish people t$&0i% know the position before the Election. Xt would, he very difficult to put the whole Constitution before the electorate whereas the questions which we had put were clear a n d comprehensible. THE LORD Ql^MIQRLX^R Stated that such a plat­ form for the Election would be a most unfortunate one for the supporters of the Treaty in Ireland because It would stress the special points in which we were interested-and these only. Several Ministers agreed in the view of the Lord Chancellor* THE mmzym mi rmnxsxcm thought that if they accepted our points and were prepared to re­ draft their Constitution in the light of them, that should suffice for the present, THE $l*?8$9?AEt OF STAfE FOR THE COLONIES reminded the Cabinet that if their answers were satisfactory they would be massing no new concession but simply re-asserting their concurrenoe in the Treaty. He thought that in four or five days the Constitution might be revised. A number of amendments had already been prepared* t h e cmmmm or t h e k x g f d b w h r said that the answer to the questions this afternoon ought to show whether they were going to agree with P e yalera or going to fight him. TRB LORD CHANCELLOR, in reply to criticism, /thought thought tho 7.1*1 oh leaders had known long ago that they w o n M h a w to hro&k with $ 0 y a l e m and pointed out that the slow but inevitable course of events was at last forcing the i^sne* He did not think we could decide at tho moment the question of publication^ TEH £ECBETARY OF S!??ATH FOR TTJB fiOLOMIES said that It might be necessary to come to some O O H ­ projyjise on the question of the appeal, to tho Prtfcry Council* His Majesty^ ftevemnnnt night conceivably make a public declaration that certain JndgOS had disqualified themselves by political action from hearing Irish appeals* The Irish Free state was entitled to itnow that the throe Lords referred to would have nothing to do with appeals fnom Ireland *i It ?re.iS a question whether the Tribunal ought not to be purgeeU THE CH/U10ELE0R OF THE EXC5&5*nSR urged the importance of forcing tho Irish Ministers with tho straight issue on tho Constitutions THE $mm mmmffift wm ctssvaup thought that we ought to prepare our own draft asnendrcenta and Insist on their embodiment In the Irish Oon­ atiiutlom THE mm said he had glanced at the amendments which had been proposed from cits? side and thought that these oould bo modified and that a much more moderate instrument would suffice for our purpose. /THE SECRETARY OF STATES FOE THE COLOHIES. The Secretary of State for the Colonies said that subject to securing our essential conditions, it was desirable that the Constitution should be drafted in language which would command the widest assent in Ireland. The Minister for Education reminded the Cabinet that the British Constitution had a 13th century exterior or facade with an interior domestic arrangement of a very modern character. The Irish were interested in the latter and not at all in the faqade. The Secretary of State for the Colonies remarked that they had agreed to come behind the facade. The Prime Minister said that it had to be remembered that the "Crown" had too often in Ireland represented repression - the Crown -Forces, the Crown Solicitor, the Crown Prosecutor, and so forth. ijriew Lord Balfour stated that in accordance with the desire of Sir Craig. the Cabinet he had that morning had a conversation with Sir James Craig and Lord Londonderry. difficulty as follows. They had put their The whole of the rebellion organisation of the South which had been engaged in resisting the British forces, having nothing further to do in the South had immigrated to the Berth, where they were concentrating all their machinery and were making the utmost trouble. The Northern Government had to cope with this increased force. They had to protect a frontier extending 300 miles and. they had not enough soldiers for the purpose. They were, therefore, compelled to use the best members of their special force. The less excellent parts of the Special force were being used for dealing with the chronic and at the present time - acute disturbances in Belfast. Insofar as soldiers could be provided for guarding of the frontier, it would be by so much the easier for the Northern Parliament to divert the best of their Specials to Belfast. In the view of the Northern Government the present disturbances were being deliberately aimed at destroying Ulster — 2fc3ra4 they were a part of a great conspiracy for exacerbating the secular feeling between the Roman Catholics and Protestants, and these disturbances were being used as propaganda with extraordinary / skill. After giving examples, LORD BALPOUR proceeded to say that additional difficulty had been experienced by the Northern Government owing to the unfortunate moment chosen for the disbandment of the R.I.G., who wore now utterly demoralised, and. consequently one of the best Police Forces in the world was only partially available. He had pointed ii out to Sir James Craig the extraordinarily difficult situs­ tion which would arise if the Treaty broke down, and he emphasized the importance. of the view set forth by the Prime Minister to the Cabinet on the previous day, that in the event of a break-down we' should have behind us a- united country at home,supported by the public opinion of the Dominions and of the United States of America.' This would not be easy if the South had any ground for contending that the Belfast outrages were part of a movement to per­ seeute Roman Catholics. Sir James Craig had called his attention to the fact that the Southern Government had voted £100,000 for propaganda, by means of which they were spreading lies all over the world in a very dexterous fashion. The Northern Government could not afford to undertake similar propaganda. He himself had pointed out that this was very dangerous, and the only way he could see The l e s s excellent p a r t s of the S p e c i a l f o r c e w e r e losing u s e d f o r d e a l i n g w i t h t h e c h r o n i c and a t t h e p r e s e n t - acute disturbances be p r o v i d e d in Belfast. the best Insofar as s o l d i e r s for guarding of the so much t h e e a s i e r f o r frontier, to B e l f a s t . N o r t h e r n Government t h e p r e s e n t deliberately a part it Ulster - b e t w e e n t h e Roman C a t h o l i c s divert In the view of the being sfctmt t h e y of a g r e a t c o n s p i r a c y f o r e x a c e r b a t i n g feeling to disturbances were aimed a t d e s t r o y i n g could would be by the Northern Parliament of t h e i r S p e c i a l s time the were secular and P r o t e s t a n t s , and 3355$ . t h e s e d i s t u r b a n c e s w e r e b e i n g u s e d a s p r o p a g a n d a extraordinary / skill. say that After giving additional e x a m p l e s , LORD BALFOUR p r o c e e d e d difficulty N o r t h e r n Government owing for the dlsbandment demoralised, t o t h e u n f o r t u n a t e moment of the R . I . G . , and. c o n s e q u e n t l y if chosen one o f t h e b e s t P o l i c e available. He h a d the view set Forces pointed difficult the T r e a t y broke emphasized the importance.of the who w e r e now u t t e r l y to S i r James C r a i g t h e e x t r a o r d i n a r i l y t i o n which would a r i s e to had been e x p e r i e n c e d by i n t h e w o r l d was o n l y p a r t i a l l y out with situa­ down, and h e f o r t h by Prime M i n i s t e r to t h e C a b i n e t on t h e p r e v i o u s day, the that in t h e e v e n t o f a b r e a k - d o w n we' s h o u l d h a v e b e h i n d u s a u n i t e d country a t home,supported by t h e p u b l i c Dominions and of t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s not be e a s y i f that of A m e r i c a . t h e S o u t h had a n y ground the Belfast outrages were part s e e u t e Roman C a t h o l i c s . a t t e n t i o n to the f a c t o p i n i o n of for This would contending of a movement t o S i r James C r a i g had c a l l e d that the t h e S o u t h e r n Government per­ his had v o t e d £100,000 f o r p r o p a g a n d a , b y m e a n s of w h i c h t h e y spreading l i e s fashion. all over the world i n a very that dexterous The N o r t h e r n G o v e r n m e n t c o u l d n o t a f f o r d tmdertake s i m i l a r propaganda. t h i s was v e r y d a n g e r o u s , were to He h i m s e l f h a d p o i n t e d out a n d t h e o n l y way h e c o u l d see to meet it was by a British Enquiry into the facts of the recent events in Ulster. To this Sir James Oraig had stated he had no objection, provided it was initiated from had Ulster. LORD BALFOUR/then summed up by stating that he "understood Sir James Oraig would have no objection to an Enquiry provided it was the Ulster Government which ap­ preached the British Government and said that in view of the false reports in regard to what had happened there they would, be glad if an impartial body could be sent over to investigate and report. LORD BALFOUR continued that Sir James Craig had admitted that the British Government had given them a considerable amount of help, but had sug­ gested that Ulster was treated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer rather as he treated another Department of the British Government, whereas their attitude was that this Parliament bad been forced on them, though they did not they want it,, by the British Government, and consequently/ought to be treated generously. Another point which Sir James Graig had made was that it had been very unfortunate that the Irish'Regiments had been disbanded at the very moment when trouble was brewing between the North and South. He had said that what South Ireland required was non-eeiamisSaned officers, and these were available from the disbanded Regi­ ments. THE LORD PRIVY SEAL said that he had made a note to raise this point. THE SECRETARY OP STATE FOR THE COLONIES said that this question had been gone into at his meetings on the previous afternoon, and it had been found that the action taken was unavoidable. The best plan was to try and. absorb the non-commissioned officers and men disbanded into other Regiments. Many of them, he understood, were willing to adopt this course. At the present moment a good many of the d i s b a n d e d men w e r e on l e a v e i n Ireland, THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL s a i d h e h a d a s k e d Sir James Graig i f he expected t o reduce U l s t e r to order, he had r e p l i e d t h a t i t was a troublesome m a t t e r , but that i n t i m e h e h a d no d o u b t o r d e r w o u l d b e r e s t o r e d . I n t o t h e M i n i s t e r of E d u c a t i o n , reply LORD BALPOUR s a i d t h a t h a d c o n s u l t e d S i r Jareas O r a i g a b o u t t h e a p p l i c a t i o n martial ed, law i n U l s t e r . on t h e g r o u n d t h a t impose m a r t i a l law, British and he of S i r James C r a i g had s t r o n g l y object­ a s a G o v e r n m e n t t h e y h a d no r i g h t and I t w o u l d i n v o l v e a c t i o n b y to the Parliament. THE LORD PRIVY SEAL s a i d , h e t h o u g h t the f e e l i n g of the U l s t e r G o v e r n m e n t w a s t h a t it- w o u l d b e t a n t a m o u n t t o d e c l a r a t i o n o f b a n k r u p t c y i n t h e power of t h e i r a Government, THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES s u g g e s t e d the s i t u a t i o n was analogous to the. C e n t r a l declaring martial i n some g r e a t that Government l a w i n t h e e v e n t o f a Communist rising city. THE LORD CHANCELLOR s a i d t h e r e w a s no a n a l o g y i n THE PRIME MINISTER r e c a l l e d w h e r e a Oonanunist r i s i n g o f which t h e t r o o p s not Government h a d had t o b e the precedent of Winnipeg, h a d o c c u r r e d and f o r t h e of t h e S t a t e h u t o f t h e law. suppression Central employed.. THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL r e c a l l e d t h e precedent of t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s of America, where the i n d i v i d u a l always resented action by the Federal troops unless were p l a c e d u n d e r t h e o r d e r s o f t h e States they State. THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES t h o u g h t t h a t i t w a s deemed n e c e s s a r y t h e r e w o u l d b e no g r e a t difficulty i n i n d u c i n g t h e U l s t e r Government t o c o n s e n t t o t h e t i o n of m a r t i a l law i n B e l f a s t . if applica­ i THE LORD PRESIDENT OP THE COUNCIL e x p r e s s e d d o u b t s w h e t h e r t h e B r i t i s h Government c o u l d m a i n t a i n o r d e r as any to better than the Ulster Government even If they did declare martial law. THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR stated that that was the general military view. THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES pointed out that the troops were l e s 3 hated than the Constabulary. By taking over the protection of the frontier and adopting the mili­ tary dispositions which had been prepared for that emergency, a number of good Special Constables now employed on the frontier would "be released for the preservation of order in Belfast, THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL said the point i7hich had most impressed him in regard to Sir James Graig's diffi­ cnlties was that the best of the Constables had to be em­ ployed on the frontier. THE FIRS' COMMISSIONER OP WORKS asked whether Sir James 11 Craig would apply for an Enquiry? THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL said he had no doubt he could be induced to do so. At this point there was some discussion as to the most suit-able individuals to conduct an Enquiry into recent events in Ireland, and as to the Reference for such an Enquiry, which, it was generally agreed, would have to be very carefully drawn. THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL thought it w a 3 most important that the Reference should be wide enough to cover the oxitrages in the South of Ireland. THE LORD CHANCELLOR said he did not wish to put any obstacle in the way of an Enquiry, but he expressed eonstd­ erable doubts as to its utility. Events moved so fast in Ireland- that before the Enquiry had proceeded far the events would be replaced in the public mind by later happen­ ings. THE PRIME MINISTER s u g g e s t e d that the mere f a c t p r e s e n c e o f such a Commission m i g h t p e r h a p s of check the further disturbances . THE MINISTER OP EDUCATION d o u b t e d i f much w a s t o b e e x p e c t e d from t h e l a b o u r s of s u c h a Commission, b u t a t r a t e i t w o u l d show t h a t ly t h e B r i t i s h Government was any absolute impartial. THE LORD PRESIDENT 0)? THE COUNCIL s u g g e s t e d t h a t no d o u b t J u d g e s w o u l d do t h e w o r k v e r y w e l l , what was r e q u i r e d was a s t a t e s m a n l i k e tion, rpip? nevertheless r e p o r t on t h e s u c h a s w o u l d b e r e n d e r e d by a n e x p e r i e n c e d PRIME MINIS TEE s u g g e s t e d would b e t o s e l e c t make t h e a Protestant that Judge enquiry. The C a b i n e t t h e n a d j o u r n e d t h i s p a r t o f t h e i r d i s c u s s i o n , a s i t w a s f e l t t h a t no d e c i s i o n c o u l d be t a k e n u n t i l t h e r e p l y of the r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o f the P r o v i s i o n a l Government, w a s r e c e i v e d . (At t h i s p o i n t General S t a f f the Chief of the entered.) Imperial situa­ Statesman perhaps the b e s t and a C a t h o l i c though plan to REPORT CF.-JOIB MEETING OF .ROVISIGNAL GOVERNMENT OP IRELAND CQHHITaaBB AND 3UB-G OMMITTEE ON IRELAND OF TUB COMMITTEE OF IMPERIAL DEFENCE. (g) 5 With, r e f e r e n c e t o C a b i n e t 3 1 Conclusion (£2), ( c ) -the SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES g a v e t h e C a b i n e t a r e s u m e o f reports which had been p r e p a r e d as t h e r e s u l t of j o i n t meeting of the P r o v i s i o n a l o f I r e l a n d Committee and t h e Government Sub-Committee on I r e l a n d of t h e Committee o f D e f e n c e h e l d on t h e p r e v i o u s a Imperial afternoon. Mr.Churchill explained that the joint Committee had d i v i d e d i n t o Sub-Committees which had produced t h e r e p o r t s which he These r e p o r t s s e t summarised. forth, s i d e r a t i o n of the Cabinet, for certain the eon­ economic and m i l i t a r y m e a s u r e s w h i c h c o u l d be t a k e n , if t h e C a b i n e t s h o u l d so d e c i d e . In c e r t a i n even­ tualities. She C a b i n e t a g r e e d t­ ( a ) That no d e c i s i o n was f o r a t the moment; called ( b ) That t h e C o m m i t t e e s s h o u l d pursue t h e i r i n q u i r i e s under the general direction of the S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r the Colonies. MARTIAL LAW IE AREAS AFFECTED BY POSSIBLE MILITARY MOVEMENTS. 3. In the course of the discussion on the subject referred to in the preceding conclusion, THE SECRETARY OP STATE POE WAR raised the question as to whether, in the event of a decision to ma&e the military dispositions outlined by the Secretary of State for the Colonies, the military authroities would be permitted to declare martial law. THE LORD PRIVY SEAL considered that if it should become necessary to have resort to military movements, the military authorities must be supported by the Government in any steps of the hind indicated by the Secretary of State for War, which they might deem necessary. lo dec1st on was reached on this point * TREATIES OP WASHINGTON (4) With reference to Cabinet 92(81), Conclusion 1, the Cabinet aiithorisetl the intro­ dnction in the House of lords by the First lord of the Admiralty of a Bill to give effect to those Articles of the Treaty for t h e £imitation of Naval Armament and of the Treaty to Protect Neutrals and Ion-Combatants at Sea in Time of War, which were concluded at Tfeshington and which necessitate fresh legislation in this country (C.P.3977). PIKTZHE CABIIBf BtTSIHESS. ( 5 ) SHI PRIME MIIISffiEH said he would have to ask his colleagues to remain available in case it was necessary to hold a further meeting of the Cabinet after the reply of the Members of the Provisional Government of Ireland was received. 2,vaiitehall Gardens, S.W,/l 2nd June, 192£