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-nOKD?! I S
THE PROPERTY OP H I S B R I T A C T . C ? T A J E 5 T Y S GOVfmhrlENT . )
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3
C A B I N E T .
R^OR-!!'. Oyt.APVI SPRY . COI/lil TTrTB PIT U T J y ^ L O Y ^ ^ N T
IToh-y^Joy t h ?
I
thP
circulate
minutes
Committee
ef
the
fcinist^r
of
for
the
tho
final
of
Committee,
summarising
the
to
meeting
views
which
cf
my-cellsagu&-&­
the
Advisory
Insurance
and
the
are
appended
t h ethroe
(initialled)
1930.
of
of
Committee,
November 5 t h ,
u
Labour-
information
on Unemployment
IITSURANCE
Report
memoranda.­
parties
ts
the
THIS DOCUMENT. I S ^ H L ' . P R p P L R T j r O T
H I S BRITANNIC M A J E S T Y S GOVERliMENT.
T
lllcRET.
COFYN.
n
jgjh
C A B I N E T .
Meeting".
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON UITEMPLOYifSNT
INSURANCE.
CONCLUSIONS o f t h o F i f t h M e e t i n g o f t h e C o m m i t t e e ,
h e l d i n t h e Room o f t h e M i n i s t e r o f L a b o u r ,
Montagu H o u s e , S . W . l v , on W e d n e s d a y , 5 t h N o v e m b e r , 1 9 3 0 .
at 5.0 p,m.
P R E S E N JT: The R t . Hon. M.G. B o n d f i e l d ,
M i n i s t e r of Labour.
$he R t . Kon.V. H a r t s h o r n ,
O.B.E., M,P.,
Lord p r i v y Seal.
file R t .
Hon.
Minister
Sir
Health.
Mr.
T/.D. W i l k i n s o n
)
Mr.
P.Y.
]
Blundun.
H. B e t t e r t o n ,
O.B.E., M.P.,
Bt.,
Major W,E, E l l i o t ,
M.C., M.P., '
A.Greenwood,
of
M.P.,
Mr.
Isaac Foot,
M.P.,
Joint Secretaries
to the
i , Committee.
;
The Conclusions of the Fourth Meeting were agreed
subject to the follov/ing amendment:The second sentence of the last paragraph hut two to
read - "Attention was drawn to the fact that certain
principles had been agreed in paragraph 6 of the Conclusions
of the Second Meeting although in fact these principles had
subsequently been further discussed".
Sir Henry Betterton, Major Elliot and Mr. Foot entered
a protest against the action of the Government in announcing
the decision contained in the King's Speech to appoint a
Royal Commission, having regard to the fact that the Committee
had not yet arrived at its Conclusions.
It was agreed that the three Party memoranda should
go to the Cabinet, subject to the amendment (in which
Mr. Foot acquiesced) striking out (3) in the first paragraph
and adding after the word "character" in the second paragraph
the following words "and the provision for this class should
be wholly or mainly a national charge".
After further discussion the draft report for the
Cabinet which had been circulated to the Committee was
agreed, subject to the three following alterations.­
(l)
the addition of the words "or otherwise" after
the words "Royal Commission" in line 11;
(2)
the substitution of the words "in suitable
oases" for the word "adequate," in line 17;
(3)
the omission in line 2 2 of the words "by the
public".
REPORT OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON UNEMPLOYMENT
INSURANCE.
Tho C o m m i t t e e
been
supplied
Ministry
of
problem?
the
views
and have
Ultimately
of
the
were p r e p a r e d
appended
and
of
hereto,
points,
the
advance
otherwise.
(l)
placed
the
on a
(2)
Scheme
tho
there
memoranda,
parties
the
of
summarising
the
of
a divergence
of
and
by
are
Committee
these
of
memoranda
regard
agreed
ba
thorn,
the
in
of
Commission
should
cr
be
basis;
Unemployment
also
the
be made f o r
suitable
and
to
a
thatJ­
Scheme
should
on
amendment
self-supporting
outside
view
a Royal
Insurance
provision
to
with
immediate
an inquiry
should
available
to
A copy
Committeo
solvent
fall
by
have
a thorough discussion
particularly
of
appropriate
and
training
discloss
Unemployment
unemployed-who
statistics
three
possibility,
But
and
They
"
and
or
in
meetings.
circulated,
necessity,
law
five
had
respective
The m e m o r a n d a
number
held
w i t h memoranda
Labour
the
is
have
cases
to
those
the
Insurance
facilities
within
for
the
Scheme;
(3)
those
as
the
provision
outside
to be
the
clearly
referred
Insurance
Scheme
distinguishable
Signed
to
in
paragraph
should
from
on b e h a l f
the
of
MARGARET G,
November
5th,
1330.
be
so
(2)
framed
Insurance
the
for
Scheme,,
Committee
B0NDF3ELD.
I S DOCUMENT I S
TILE PROPERTY OF H I S B R I T A B I C M A J E S T Y S
GO vERKKSN T .
r
CU.1.16(30) .
ADVISORY COMMITTEE OP UNEMPLOYMENT
INSIJHANCE.
MEMORANDUM BY THE CK) vTSRNMENT REPREST-NTATIVES ON THE UNEMPLOYIvIBNT
INSURANCE ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
1.
The U n e m p l o y m e n t
aotuarially
£.
This
sound
and
involves
lines
entitled
to
3.
restoration
the
to
formulation
reaching
of
Commission,
which
Allegations
that
we
our
abuse
have
been
immediate
for
Commission.
a Royal
and have
measures,
come
taken
in
special
and
cases
deal
It
would e q u a l l y
be
to
deal
whole
with
the
consultation
could
only
the
advance
it
with
would
impossible
problem
and
and
in
the
law
considered
impossible
from
to
an
urged
without
this
point
such
un­
single
general
to
fullest
conducted
been
any
improper,
the
involved.
would be
the
employers,
satisfactorily
that
be
far­
Royal
has
inquiry,
and
be
it
of
without
and
interests
and
indeed
scheme.
scheme
a strong
conclusion
them a p a r t
with workers
be
"We h a v e
be
cannot
various
made
who m a y n o t
difficult
of
amendments
to
an
on
insurance
opinion,
the
on
scheme
insurance
raise
by means
consult
In p r a c t i c e
which
unemployment
in
justifiable.
and
unemployment
s h o u l d make
carefully
partial
of
the
ex&ept
could
unemployed
scheme
placed
a further
the
the
which,
of
for
further
settled
4.
very
of
a
questions
satisfactorily
waiting
under
should he
basis.
establishment
provide
benefit
Scheme
self-supporting
the
national
The
Insurance
out
problem.
attempt
investigation
investigation
by a
Royal
Commission.
5.
We a c c o r d i n g l y
appointed
thp
with
propose
immediately
unemployment
regard
to:­
to
that
a Royal
review the
insurance
scheme
Commission
provisions
and
to
make
should
be
and working
of
recommendations
(l)
contain
its
and
future
the
the provisions
the means by which
self-supporting
(2)
scope,
the
scheme, f o r
may b e
arrangements
assisting
repidlj
as p o s s i b l e
reports
on
which
should
made s o l v e n t
the
should be
with
its
more u r g e n t
should be
and
instructed
outside
work
to proceed
and asked
t o make
matters.
M.G-.B.
A
n
V.H.
1930.
made
unemployed.
(intd.)
27th October,
it
and
The Commission
the
it
which
as
interim
1 £9
-t O \J
MlS
DOCUMENT I S
THE PROPERTY OF H I S B R I T A N N I C M A J E S T Y S
i C. U. I . 3 J l 3 Q l
B
" "
"
I
GcVLRK .E iT.
!
ADVISORY
CO Mi . I T T E E
ON
INSURANCEo
UNEMPLOYMENT
MEMORANDUM BY THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY REPRESENTATIVES
ON THE THREE PARTY UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE COMMITTEE.
From
the
would appear
documents
to he
placed before
us
the
following
facts
established:-
UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE P R O P E R .
(1)
The n u m b e r on t h e L i v e R e g i s t e r i s ( a c c o r d i n g t o t h e
l a t e s t r e t u r n s x) 1 , 4 9 8 , 1 5 5 w h o l l y unemployed, 585,156
t e m p o r a r i l y s t o p p e d , and 105,361 n o r m a l l y i n c a s u a l
employment
m a k i n g a t o t a l o f 2 , 1 8 8 , 6 7 2 , o f v/hom
a p p r o x i m a t e l y 95
o f t h o m e n a n d 38£j o f t h e w o m e n a r e
a c t u a l l y i n r e c e i p t of b e n e f i t .
9
c
(2)
The i n c o m e of
£45,000 000.
the
The o u t g o i n g s
£70,000 000.
from
Fund from
all
sources
is
approximately
3
(3)
the
Fund
amount
approximately
to
9
(4)
The d e b t
Thus
on
there
the Fund
is
is
now ap
a gap between
reaching
the
income
and
of
t h e F u n d amounting t o £ 2 5 0 0 0 0 0 0
;oer a n n u m ,
ib
being
our view
9
grave
9
closed by borrowing.
doubt
whether
redeemed, a n d
to
go
obscuring
the
actual
Exchequer
and
the
In
the existing
debt
on a d d i n g
to
it
position
of
the
there
to
outgoings
and t h i s
can e v e r
seems
the
us
relations
is
be
gap
already
fully
to be
between
merely
the
Fund.
TRANSITIONAL
(1)
£60,000,000.
BENEFIT.
The e n t i r e c o s t of t r a n s i t i o n a l b e n e f i t f a l l s on t h e
and w i l l amount t o about £21,000,000 in t h e
Exchequer
current year.
This payment h a s , in our view, ceased to
be insurance;
i t i s in f a c t a maintenance allowance
o u t s i d e t h e P u b l i c A s s i s t a n c e Scheme p a i d w i t h o u t t h e
tests attaching cither to a contributory
insurance
scheme o r t o t h e P o o r Law.
3
(2)
The r a t e o f b e n e f i t o a i d i s t h e same a s t h a t
received
b y t h e p e r s o n s who h a v e s a t i s f i e d a l l t h e
statutory
t e s t s , i n c l u d i n g t h e f u l l c o n t r i b u t i o n s t e s t of 30
c o n t r i b u t i o n s w i t h i n t h e l a s t two y e a r s .
(3)
Those on T r a n s i t i o n a l B e n e f i t number more t h a n 3 4 0 , 0 0 0
an i n c r e a s e of 2 0 0 , 0 0 0 s i n c e F e b r u a r y l a s t .
In
c o n s e q u e n c e of t h e Act of F e b r u a r y , 1930 a b o u t 1 1 0 , 0 0 0
p e r s o n s who p r e v i o u s l y h a d n o t b e e n i n r e c e i p t of
c i t h e r P o o r Law r e l i e f o r u n e m p l o y m e n t i n s u r a n c e w e r e
brought into
"benefit' .
1
22nd O c t o b e r ,
1930.
1.
­
The p o s i t i o n
in
regard
special
urgency,
since
benefit
expires begins
Fund
is
egreed
general
other
public
forms
of
relief.
examination
individual
needs
rate
of
examination
the
of
actual
necessary
It
is
Outside
regards
is
I
of
this
INSURANCE.
to place
the
also
real
to
maintenance
that
of
means.
the beneficiaries
of
the
is
three
which t h e
what
and
and
are
treatment.
individual
We w o u l d
insurance
prejudiced
the
scheme,,
and remedial
unsuitable,
or p o t e n t i a l ,
Insurance
insurance
determine
a test
include
­
the unemployment
quite
is
during which
important
is necessary
payment
should
position
whether
as
is
FART
distinguish between
individual
A flat
it
period
group
195.1.
MEASURES,
basis.
should
'*transitional"
the
in April,
that
on a n i n s u r a n c e
this
by Statute
NECESSARY
It
to
add
scheme
by the
that
proper,
present
situation.
There
are
sup-oorting.
reduced,
increased,
is
not
early
are not
the burden
point
in
of
must be
trade
should
legitimate
to
scheme
c a n b e made
increased,
the
on t h e F u n d may b e b r o u g h t
for
reduced
those
sensibly
or
c a r r i e d by other
the
anticipate
benefits
down
by
benefit.
to be
absorb
self­
contributions
in
excess
means,
surplus.
so l a r g e
a
In
of
the
unless
our
an
early
opinion
reabsorption
at
date.
The M i n i s t e r
contributions
would
may b e
up the q u a l i f i c a t i o n s
If benefits
balancing
in
The c o n t r i b u t i o n s
or the numbers
stiffening
revival
ways
remain
unemployed
1,240,000,
has
stated
and b e n e f i t s ,
that
existing
t h e Unemployment
self-supporting
persons
on t h e
in receipt
so long
as
of b e n e f i t
Insurance
t h e number
does
scale
not
of
Fund
of
exceed
it
an
A.
The r e d u c t i o n . I n n.umhers-"trequirecLjLs
register.
higher
he
This,
it
is
qualification
obtained
a ratio
either
than hitherto
One o r
the information
alone would b e l i k e l y
which,
the
3
scheme
intentions
depleted
between
of
to
t h e manner
on a l a r g e
employers
in which
adopting
t h e number
to
of
of
adopted,
the
is also
the statutory
latter
clear
that
correct
framework
the
schedule
power
for
of
original
by which
examination
above,
from
arrangements
the
Fund.
forthwith
schemes were
being
is
to
action
dimensions
MEASURES.
Committee
of t h e Fund a r e
and necessary
reaching
c o n t e m p l a t e d when t h e I n s u r a n c e
As s t a t e d
the
short-time
supplemented
is
to
scale by organised
should be given
short-time
It is clear that
scheme p r o p e r w i l l b e
brought t o a s t a t e of
submitted
the resources
NECESSARY
far
the
industries
beyond
initiated.
PART I I : - R E L I E F .
t h o numbers of those o u t s i d e t h e i n s u r a n c e
i n c r e a s e d i f t h e I n s u r a n c e Fund i s t o b e
solvency.
the annual
amount
t o £31,00a,00C, a n d t h i s
Law o r I n s u r a n c e
paid
without
the
on T r a n s i t i o n a l
obligations
Benefit
laid
on
claimants.
I t i s i m p o s s i b l e t h a t t h e s e l a r g e sums s h o u l d c o n t i n u e t o b e
out on t h i s b a s i s j
f o r these cases, as already s t a t e d , a
rate is unsuitable and individual examination indispensable.
Accordingly
we c o n s i d e r
would no l o n g e r b e q u a l i f i e d
relieved under
separate
t h e Unemployment
We r e c o g n i s e
is
It
to be abuses
and increasing
that
organised
with
or
that
t h e Fund by measures
worked and wages
in which
paid
flat
a n d can
methods must b e
effective.
and employees,
to
Poor
to
t o u s we t h i n k
even though w i t h i n
Minister
either
a limit
these
impressed by the evidence
We c o n s i d e r
amounts
qualification
with
of
Benefit,
a
Parliament.
systematically
those
to prove
are admitted by a l l
We w e r e
regarding
other
supplied
could be afforded
practices
t h e stamp
t h e - " o r e s e r r t ' "*
achieved hy requiring
for Insurance
to contribution,
weeks i n any y e a r .
relief
can only he
by raising
of b e n e f i t
and from
clear,
a b o u t -4Cto o f
largely
Cj'
that
national
that
to
those
among t h e u n e m p l o y e d who
draw i n s u r a n c e b e n e f i t
arrangements
hnving
should
no connection
whatever
Insurance.Scheme.
as
the responsibility
the larger
proportion
of
for
this
the
expense
be
category
1-5-6
under
these
provisions
Exchequer.
the
Actual
m u 3 t p r o h a h l y "be h o r n e
administration
Local Authorities
consider,
however,
financial
reasons
Commissioners
whom t h e
to
that
entrusted.
be
large,
to
take
s h o u l d be
a n d few
view
rather
co-operation
between
problems
administrative
and
is
that
the
for
the
number,
necessary.
areas
would
in question
the
out
would
policy,
Methods
concerned,
rather
by an
should
Commissioners
relieving.
administration
to
funds
a national
Departments
for
area,
these
enable
envisage
be worked
of
through
Regional
each large
handling
than merely
of
should
the
be worked
"We
step
and to
constructive
principle,
for
in
for
the
overlapping.
appointed
The f a c t
a wide
involve
both
a further
arrangements
be
prevent
should
by
of
which
than matters
cf
inter-departmental
committee.
The H o u s e
the
debt
of
the
the
year
is
out.
financial
the
dealing
the
was
period
of
the
indebted
to
period for
to
present
which
expire
financial
in
to
further
for
purposes,
concurrently
upon
the
a
taken
contributory
existing
system
position.
28th
Getobor,1930.
to
oppose
restore
basis
to
lay
a
large
benefit.
and
which have
the
to
unless
correct
Walter
the
taken,
of
to
a
the
of
to
the
steps
its
are
Fund
defects
Betterton­
Elliot.
nation,
provide
those
contributed
Henry
position,
before
active
solvency
(Sgd)
Eill
next.
measures
(Sgd)
a
whose
were
before
Further,
and pass
circumstances
compelled
these
the
powers
April
we s h o u l d f e e l
supply
of
bo r e v i e w e d
cf
Fund
end
beneficiaries,
would
increase
the
have
introduce
an
Insurance
transitional
stated,
which b e g i n s
In
for
authorise
before
transitional
the
to
heavily
require
specifically
conclusion
asked
Treasury w i l l
estimate
will
it
be
In addition,
the Minister
with
to
already
year,
supplementary
is
in
present
THIS DOCUMENT I S THE PROPERTY OF H I S BRITANNIC M A J E S T Y ' S GOVERNMENT.
COIY N O .
Hi
HOUSE OF COMMSNS,
28th
A I V I S O R Y CCMklTTLE ON UNEMFLOYMENT
Dear Miss
It
agreed
representatives
on T h u r s d a y
the
should
or
amend
further
perusal
On M o n d a y ,
fact,
that
the
of
In
Insurance,
it
already
been
have
colleagues
on
it
apparent
which
the
it
and,
could
the
their
the
a
that
facts
and
memorandum
that
this
afternoon.
week
to
advisable
after
to
of
any u s e f u l
a
the
ShadowKing's
Unemployment
the
Government
consultation
we h a d
some
any
last
doubt
purpose but vre
yourself
and
our
it.
from
observe bears
to
of
further
circumstances
send
refrained
Yours
terms
relating
courtesy
to
the
the Liberal
therefore,
serve
in
of
the policy
these
Committee
you w i l l
early
meeting
that
In
advisable
We h a v e p u r p o s e l y
draft,
at
determined
the
upon
typed
we t h o u g h t
the paragraph
o u r memorandum
thought
draft
acquainted with
was made u n n e c e s s a r y .
whether
if
submit
We p r e p a r e d
the
last
documents.
ho7/ever,
was
opinion
we s h o u l d m e e t
the
view of
had
draft
we w e r e made
Speech.
their
considered.
in
was
amplify
three parties
expressing
and,
intention
Cabinet,
w h e n we s e p a r a t e d
already
accordingly,
had
of
memoranda
conclusions
Our
INSURANCE.
Dondfield,
was
several
October,1930.
amendment
Thursday's
sinocrely,
(Sgd.)
ERNEST DROWN.
(Sgd.)
ISAAC F O O T .
to
our
date.
1
-'-1.*
MEMORANpUK.
Having
carefully
and having
had
colleagues
upon
upon
the
it
is
upon
a solvent
be
basis.
for
In
our
the
uninsured
in
character
or
mainly
new P u b l i c
Seeing
at
probably
is
Obviously
consideration
already
Fund
in
our
views
the
arrived,
shall
shall
he
be
is placed
be
placed
made
individual
the
such
be
on a
the
flat
need.
should be
this
a
from
administration
unemployed
for
not
from
as
distinguished
and s h a l l
for
on
viz(l)
relating
national
class
should be
wholly
this
task upon
the
charge.
to
imposing
Committees
are valid,
and
that
an
ad
hoc
essential.
so
large
we a p p r e h e n d
arise
to
it
shall
benefit,
objections
that
changes
must
payment
machinery
Assistance
organisation
when
the provision
the
our
express
We c o n c u r
Insurance
fund
regard
a national
with
That provision
able bodied
and
We t h i n k
arrived
the
the
to
documents,
able bodied unemployed persons
this
view
to
Bill
by
have
the
relevant
consultation
emerged.
(2)
unemployment
shall
the
Committee has
that
such
carried
of
rate but
the
basis.
( 3 ) That
payment
agreed
which have
essential
sources
of
all
C o m m i t t e e we d e s i r e
at which
That
cannot
advantage
the
issues
conclusions
other
the
considered
as
to
into
the
and
shortly
the
a measure
that
time
of
difference
agreement
of
has
opinion
and method of
been
will
bringing
these
effect.
whole
action
be
question
must
of p a r l i a m e n t
introduced
to
come up f o r
the
at
date.
extend
an
early
the present
A
borrowing
k q
0
powers
and
s
must he
again,
made t o
arrangements.
to
sanction
these
of
to be
carried
has been
of
the
his
this
speech
Committee
now u n d e r
is
the
persons
impracticable
factor
least
in
in
this
15th
up
to
will
have
this
this
up our
problem,
the
and
been
interest
was
the
and unless
the
country
grounds
the
Exchequer
it
the
are
Public
public
that
the
changes
matter,
of
of
clearly
strongest
Parliament
Committee has
immediate a c t i o n
the
ask
delay.
Chancellor
stated
transitional
essential
concentration
The
upon
the
possible
setting
problem.
to face
that
to
provision
commitments u n l e s s
expressed upon
Government
can a g r e e
as Parliament
those
assured
with
on O c t o b e r
of " P a r l i a m e n t
legislative
it
strongly
grave
a few months,
immense new f i n a n c i a l
out
considerable
upon
with
Commons c a n b e
opinion
a
deal
We t h i n k
House
action
within
as
in
duty
well
for
complaint
and
should
introduce
a
criticism.
If,
therefore,
simple B i l l
poning
until
the
the
for
the
effort
of
extension
of
the borrowing
grapple
with
to
uncertain
disaster.
the Minister
future
We a g r e e
solution but
that
we do n o t
Labour
the
problem
we b e l i e v e
the
think
of
she w i l l
problems
that
powers
raised
post­
solvency
be
inviting
are not
any f u r t h e r
easy
d e l a y would
of
be
warranted.
We h a v e
of
the
duty
devoted
committed
serious
resentment
inquiry
involving
We h a v e
of
a Royal
to
grave
upon
the
line
of
of
the
throe
if
to us,
considered
objections.
the
and in
burely
application
of
of
anxious
more
consideration
there
than
would
suggest
be
another
delay.
suggestion
our
as
as
opinion
to
as
to
recognxsed
2.
the
this
agreement
Unemployment
should be
these
the
a n d we b e l i e v e
Inasmuch
objectives
enquiry
to
we d i d n o t h i n g
indefinite
Commission
main
months
appointment
proposal
has been
Insurance
the
time
and
principles.
is
open
reached
policy
the
the
method
\
For
that
purpose
Inquiry
would he
cf
technical
such
necessary
Our
the better
end
obtained
therefore,
is
t h e monej- B i l l
be
to
the
to Parliament
urgent
shall
23rd
and
reforms
not
be
October,
the
Country
upon which
further
1930.
of
all
for
the
solution
information
expedition.
coincident
actual
Commons,
the
inter-departmental.
greater
that
of
House
the
with
introduction
submitted
an
machinery
problems,
could be
conclusion,
we c o n s i d e r
with
proposals
thus
assurance
the
should
giving
that
Parties
seem
to be
(Sgd.)
EPUEST
(Sgd.)
ISAAC FOOT.
both
the
agreed
delayed.
BROm.