October 29th to November 11th
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In order to protect the identity of all individuals who have submitted correspondence
with regard to the Central Guelph (FI) Accommodation Review and in keeping with the
Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, all personal
information and/or identifiers have been severed from all recorded communication
(i.e. e-mails and letters) prior to distribution. The intent or message has not been
changed.
The following e-mail was sent to you in the 1st batch of comments. Also included now is the
reply:
Hello,
I was very happy with the additional detail and the overall improvements in Report #2. It
clarified many things for me and I think the report itself was very well written.
The report reminded me of a question that I had regarding portables, porta-paks etc. The
report alludes to Fred A Hamilton without a porta pak and I was hoping to clarify why the
porta pak needs to be removed. It is my understanding that these structures have a finite and
short lifespan and need to be taken down or rebuilt after that life is over. Is this why the Fred
A Hamilton portapak is being taken down or is it simply that we don’t have enough students to
justify its existence any longer?
If the decision is building age based, I was wondering what the threshold age is for removing
these buildings? Also, how does the age of the Fred A Hamilton portapak compare to other
very old portables in the area (eg. Jean Little portables which are at least 15 yrs old or
Centennial’s rather ancient looking portables)?
Thanks,
Hello thereYou raise a good question about the the portapak at FA Hamilton PS. There is not an
immediate need to remove this portapak and there is also no fixed lifespan that we are
approaching. The portapak at FA Hamilton was put on the school in 1991 as a result of the
amount of growth in the area and the school being overcapacity. Over the years the
portapak has received some repairs and upgrades as required, however, a portapak structure
is not intended for permanent use and therefore it would be staff's preference that any future
planning for FA Hamilton is not done assuming the continued reliance on the portapak
structure.
It is difficult to compare a 17 yr old portapak with portables being used in the area. Portables
come and go at school sites and can move from one school to another, therefore, it would be
difficult to specify the age of some of these units. There is no specific lifespan for portables
either.
October 29th to November 11th
2
The following e-mail was sent to you in the 3rdt batch of comments. Also included now is the
reply (in bold):
Hello,
Could you please provide me with following information/answers:
First, could you provide me with background information on the following Guiding Principle:
“Configurations of three to five grade 7 and 8 classes facilitate collaborative teacher
planning, teacher specialization in one or more curricular areas, and student preparation for
future school experiences” Specifically, I would like to know:
1.
Is this Guideline meant to be a target number of classes or a minimum? Is it
intended to be a total of Grade 7 and 8 classes or 3-5 Grade 7 classes and 3-5 Grade 8
classes?
The target is 3-5 classes. This means 3-5 intermediate classes in total, not 3-5 Grade 7 and
3-5 Grade 8 classes.
2.
How was the number of 3-5 determined? What is triggered at that number with
regard to program delivery that would be lost with smaller numbers of classes? (For example,
do 3-5 classes provide the critical mass of students needed to provide instrumental music
programs, trained art teachers, and science and technology labs)?
3-5 staff would provide a more robust program. Three classes would have 75-90 students
and this would generate enough staff to provide some level of teacher specialization. For
example, this would mean one teacher teaching all 3 classes The Arts, or Science or
History/Geography.
-3-5 teachers allows for greater collaboration on subjects that may be common to all teachers
such as English. This will depend on the specialty of the staff.
-3-5 classes make it more likely that specialty teachers are available on staff
-Science and Technology labs are determined by the facility that was built in the school
3.
What happens to the program delivery if smaller or larger numbers of classes
exist?
If smaller numbers of classes exist, the Intermediate teacher takes responsibility for a greater
number of curriculum areas as less rotary would take place.
With larger numbers there is often more rotary. It is recommended that students should be on
rotary for approximately 50% of their subjects. If it is more than 50%, students do not feel
attached to any teacher.
4.
What is the number of Grade 7/8 classes at Willow Road School? What is the
% of Grade 7/8 students at Willow?
There are currently 10 classes of Grade 7 & 8 at Willow Rd currently (5 of each grade). This
number of 7&8's amounts to approx. 50% of the schools enrolment.
October 29th to November 11th
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Second, how robust are the projections for student enrollments through 2017 that are
presented in the Central Guelph (FI) elementary Accommodation Review – Report #2?
Specifically,
1.
How are the projections prepared and do they consider the historical attrition
rate for FI students? What attrition rate is used in the predictions based on the existing
enrollments in JK/SK/Grade 1?
Principals prepare a next years projection based on historical trends (and not directly based on
attrition rates) and this projection is compared to a Planning staff projection.
If you refer to Section 10 in Report #2, a general explanation has been provided about the
methodology used by Planning staff to compile the longer term enrolment projections. For all
grades, historical progression rates calculated from enrolments going back to the year 2000
are applied to each school. These progression rates would reflect any historical attrition
occurring in the French Immersion program in schools.
2.
The North Guelph status quo projections show that the enrollment will be 502
students greater than capacity by 2017. This is enough students to fill an entire school.
Again how robust are these numbers and, assuming they are sound, what planning is
underway to accommodate those students beyond this FI accommodation?
There are several schools in North Guelph not included in this review that have excess
space. Therefore, if you were to look at all the schools in North Guelph, there is only a net
difference of approximately 200 students greater than capacity in 2016 (from Long Term
Plan). The reason to include all North Guelph schools in this comparison of space to students
is because in this review, some schools not included within the scope of this review, may still
be receivers of students.
The other complexity of comparing students to space is that these 200 additional students are
not all located in one area. These are 200 additional students spread across large
geographic area and across 15 schools.
3.
The preliminary scenarios presented in Report #2 show several schools being
significantly over capacity. I realize that these are just preliminary but what is the “guiding
principle” with regard to over-capacity and at what point is it considered ”unacceptable” and
therefore should not be considered a viable alternative unless capital is allocated to expand
the school’s capacity?
Determining what is an unacceptable overcapacity situation at a school depends on the
school in question. On a school by school basis, the enrolment limit would depend on
several different types of constraints, ie. septic capacity, washroom capacity, etc. We do not
have a guiding principle with regards to schools being over capacity.
Third, could you please provide me with a copy of the completed valuation template for King
George completed for the review that resulted in the decision to close the school for the
Grade 7/8 FI students. How was this information incorporated into the previous review (sorry I
do not know the name of that accommodation review process)? How is this valuation
template being used in the current FI accommodation process? The King George Valuation
template completed in the East Guelph Accommodation Review can be found on the Board's
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website under Planning, Accommodation Reviews. Scroll down under the Central Guelph
Review information. Within the Draft Report dated March 5, you will find the King George
valuation framework.
In the current review, the King George valuation template is being redone by the Committee,
given the nature and issues in this review are different from the last and therefore the template
will differ from the previous version.
Fourth, have data been collected that address the following:
1.
Does the Board see a loss/gain of students to the Catholic School Board when
a neighborhood school changes either its dual track status (to FI only) or its catchment area?
No. We assume that Catholic students have to meet the criteria of being Catholic.
2.
Does the Board see an increase in incoming FI student enrollment when a
school changes from dual track to single track FI? (the logic being that families elect FI to go
to their local school?) To date, the only other examples of where schools have gone from
being dual track to single track are John McCrae and Edward Johnson. The impact on the FI
enrolment as a result of a change to a single track school is difficult to measure. For instance
while John McCrae was a dual track, the French Immersion program was larger than the
English program and growing. This was also the case at Edward Johnson. Residential growth
within the attendance area of the school would also make it difficult to ascertain whether the
growth in enrolment is related to the school offering a single track FI program.
3.
Does the enrollment at single track FI school (for example Johnson and
McCrae) reflect the diversity of the communities they serve?
We do not have the resources at the School Board to do this kind of socioeconomic research.
Therefore, we cannot comment on this.
Fifth, please provide me with any and all documentation that has been prepared that
addresses the dual stream vs. single stream benefits/drawbacks. I would like a copy of the
“statement” that is referenced in Report #2 (page 66) and would also like the supporting
information with regard to the benefits and drawbacks. Research does not seem to support
one system over another (dual vs. single track). Decisions are made based on geography,
size of the student population, size of the school, etc.
Sixth, what is the preferred layout for grade k-8 schools with regard to the Grade 7-8 classes?
Are they typically located in separate wings of the building to minimize interaction with the
younger students? There would not be a preferred lay out. Schools look at space available
and what they believe is going to work for their situation.
October 29th to November 11th
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Finally, what is the reason behind the plans to remove the portapack at FA Hamilton (and the
loss of 184 spaces)? Is it a financial decision based on maintenance requirements?
There is no immediate need to move the portapak at FA Hamilton. It has been on the school
for almost 20 years and has been repaired and upgraded over that time, as necessary. This
portapak was NOT intended to be a permanent structure but has remained on site due to a
need for additional space at FA Hamilton. At this point, it would be staff's preference that any
future planning for the school not assume a continued reliance on the portapak, given that
the extra space is not needed.
Thank you. Could you please acknowledge that you have received my request for information
and provide an estimate for when the information will be available. I realize that I have
requested a lot of information but I expect that the ARC has already pulled this information
together as part of its work. I would be happy to go to the Board office to pick up copies of
these materials if that would facilitate your efforts to get them to me. I am working with other
parents to prepare a delegation to the Board and we need this public information to provide
meaningful input to the process.
I would like to point out an omission that is becoming more significant to me the more I look
into this accommodation review process. While this is a french immersion accommodation
review, I feel that the english track students are being put at a disadvantage, and their needs
are perhaps not getting the attention they deserve. I understand that this accommodation
review was initiated in order to address the placement of the FI students, due to the decision to
change King George into a K-8 English track school. I also understand that all of the schools
included in the North Guelph portion of this review have French Immersion students attending
them. Edward Johnson has even been included and there is no current plan to change their
school's enrollment.
However, when it became clear that an English Track program would have to be closed, I
think that the best options for those students should have been considered. It is impossible to
do this in a French Immersion review. As I attempt to gain information upon which to suggest
possible options for the regular track students, I realize that the information is not accessible
because it is a French Immersion review, therefore the stats reflecting the english track students
are not deemed important.
I strongly believe that a review that plans to close a school to the regular track students in its
community should be considering the best options for those students as well, and that includes
exploring the possible impact and solutions involving the adjacent schools. In this case Central
P.S., June Ave. P.S., and Willow Road P.S. should be included in your review.
Thank you for your consideration in what is best for all students.
Information Received
October 29th to November 11th
6
Although I do not live in the Victory School area I am friendly with several families who do,
and would like to express my thoughts.
I think Victory School should be a duel track walking school. At present all small children in
the area are able to learn to walk to school--good exercise and a way of becoming familiar
with everyone in the neighbourhood.Children in French Imersion west of the Hanlon are close
to Paisley School.
I live in the John Mccrae School area where my children attended and feel it is very beneficial
to the neighbourhood to have a local dual track school. Not only is it a school but a hub for
other activities and families can get to know one another, Not so easily done when pupils are
bussed.
The local economy must benefit from this type of school as people will buy houses in the area
and stay for a long period .Small local shops must count on the business of the local residents
as well.
Do consider keeping victory school duel track.
Information Received
On behalf of the Hanlon Creek Neighbourhood Group, I categorically reject the proposal to
close F.A. Hamilton as a community school. This school is the hub of our community, the pool
from which our volunteers come from and the place where we hold our events and programs.
If this school closes, the group will have no choice but to disband. If the group ceases to exist,
the community will become fragmented, resulting in higher University student rentals. Families
will leave the neighbourhood and the community will turn into a student ghetto. This is not
something that we want to see happen and, I hope the School Board does not want to be
responsible for! Please take my concerns into your consideration when voting on your
proposal.
I am writing you today to speak out against the alternative that the board is considering to
convert FA Hamilton school to a French Immersion school. There are so many reasons why
this shouldn’t happen and I believe I mentioned most of them in my previous email from
January 2008. Since then I have been reading more about FI programs and a few other
things and I wanted to pass along some additional comments.
From looking at other school board web sites, it would seem that many of the schools have
adopted a dual track system at their schools and after thinking about it, this approach has a
lot of merit. I particularly like the Waterloo board’s approach where, the way I understand it,
they introduce FI grades into schools where there is sufficient interest. So one school might
have grade 1, 2, 3 FI and another school might have 4 and 5 and yet another school might
have grade 6 for FI students.
The Burlington board is another example of widespread dual track but I believe their
approach is to offer K-6 or K-8 in both streams.
October 29th to November 11th
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The reasons I like a dual track approach are:
it provides better access to FI programs at the neighborhood level (one of the issues I
had when I decided NOT to send my kids to FI)
-
it preserves the neighborhood school instead of killing it like our board prefers to do
it handles growth and decline of both FI and English track very well and maximizes the
use of classroom space at every school
it minimizes busing (our current neighborhood numbers are >50% of kids sitting on
the bus according to report 2)
-
it is just a fairer way to deliver FI.
I want to elaborate on the last point. The current FI system in Guelph seems to greatly favor
the FI parents and families. Although this may have been less obvious with other school
takeovers, it is very obvious when it comes to a takeover of FA Hamilton because the numbers
of the FI and English track students is close to the same.
I also feel that John McCrae should not exist as an FI center and that the money used to
rebuild that school was a waste. The school is undersized to act as an FI center and, most
importantly, I believe the money would be better spent to deliver a dual track system.
We also have other programs to compare to. What about the gifted program? We don’t
build schools for gifted students. Why is that different than French Immersion? We also have
a cap on the gifted program size and you have to qualify to get in. Why is that different than
the FI system?
I can appreciate that there is some convenience (for teaching) to have dedicated FI schools
but I would be interested to know if the end result for students is any better. I am guessing
that it is not. I’m sure if the board had a look, they would see that there is a way to deliver a
healthy dual track system at a lower cost than the current system – perhaps with shared
resources between schools to help reduce costs. I also think that the end result of a complete
dual track system will be better overall for families considering FI. Who knows, maybe you
would even see an increase in FI interest.
I would like to also encourage the board to think long term with whatever decisions they make
and not necessarily be influenced by parents. In my mind the current planning doesn’t show a
lot of vision and lacks a long term view. There have been a lot of changes in the last few
years with kids jumping from one school to the other and that really has to stop. Let’s look at
how we want to deliver FI and move toward that over the next 10 years. Let’s stop doing
plans like the current one where we have to make decisions by 2009 for something that has to
happen in 2010 and let’s design a system that is better able to handle growth and decline of
student population so that we can stop making big changes every few years.
Regards,
Information Received
October 29th to November 11th
I am a parent at Fred A. Hamilton School, and have been a member of
School Council for five years now. Last year when it became apparent
that our school was part of a potential scenario to house French
Immersion students and that there was a real danger our community would
lose it's school, I thought it would be important to provide all parents
in the school with a vehicle to express their feelings. Many people do
not feel comfortable standing up in front of a group and speaking, and
yet they have so many valuable and important things that need to be
said. For these reasons I created the Book of Gratitude, which is a
collection of pages that many students, parents, community members, and
alumni students and parents wrote about why they value Fred A. Hamilton
School. This was such a positive and rewarding experience for all of us
because it really reinforced our sense of community and shared values.
There were many common threads that ran through the comments written by
our school community, and I think they really speak to the issues at
hand now in the accommodation review process.
With that in mind I think I speak not only for myself but also for many
students, parents and community members in emphasizing how very
important our school is to our community. We may live in a global
society, but the reality is that in our very busy lives it is easy for
us to become disconnected from the people around us and to feel a sense
of isolation. Things that bring a community together really help to
offset this apartness, and in our community what brings us together is
our school. It is a place where our children feel safe and where we all
know one another. Because we have a relatively small school, the
teachers know each child by name, and parents look out for one another's
children. Our neighbourhood group runs many activities out of the
school, yet another way to bring people together. It has been said that
it takes a village to raise a child and I truly believe that the
community of Fred A. Hamilton School exemplifies that philosophy.
A tremendous number of people who wrote in the Book of Gratitude
commented on the fact that F.A.H. is a walking school. Walking to
school provides family time, neighbour time, and a wonderful start to
the day through exercise and fresh air. We really value these
opportunities that promote the health and well-being of our children and
our families. And again, there is an intimate connection between the
ability to walk to school and the sense of community that we feel.
Another poignant theme that I read many times in the Gratitude pages was
the sense that FAH is a very welcoming environment. Several families
new not only to our neighbourhood but also to Canada commented on how
much easier their transition was to living here because of the warm and
inviting atmosphere at our school. Many of the parents of children in
the gifted program also were grateful that their children had integrated
so well into the school community and did not feel isolated as a group.
There are so many reasons to preserve Fred A. Hamilton as our community
8
October 29th to November 11th
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school and these are just a few of the most important ones. I trust
that these concerns will be listened to with great care and that in the
end the board will make the best decision for all of us in the FAH
community.
Information Received
I totally agree with leaving FA Hamilton School the way it is for many reasons a few of which
are that children should be walking to school with other children in their community for
exercise and socialization. Also the expense of busing children all over the city not to
mention the pollution it causes. I hope the community will be heard.
Information Received
To the ARC and School Board:
I have had children in the public school system for 11 years. I have seen the effects on
communities and families of previous reviews, school closures and displacement of children
from their home schools.
Last year the board decided to rebuild King George School, moving the 7-8 FI out and other
students in. Here is the domino effect of this decision, in terms of displaced students, using
the 2008-9 numbers from the LTAP, and using scenarios N1 and SA.
Students displaced from King George (7-8 FI)
Students displaced from Tytler to King George:
Students displaced from Laurine Ave to King George:
7-8 FI will then displace
Causing another
And 7-8 will displace
FAH
FI Centre at FAH displaces
Hills, Jean Little and Priory Park
231
137
108
214 from Paisley (N1)
100 from Victory (N1)
105 John McCrae (SA) to
208 from FAH to Kortright
Total: 1103 displaced students because of the decision to move grade 7-8 FI
That’s a lot of disrupted lives. We ask that you consider what the ramifications and
repercussions of making these decisions are down the line for so many other children
throughout the system.
Sincerely
Information Received
October 29th to November 11th
10
Hello,
My children attend Fred A. Hamilton public school, one of the schools being considered as a
new French Immersion Centre for the south end. Why not take all of the FI overflow and put
the students in College Ave School? It could house the overflow from the west end, the south
end and Edward Johnson. By the end of the 10 year projection we’re going to be 500
students over capacity, so it makes sense to use a building the board already has which is still
in good shape. By taking all the kids who are on a bus anyway, and sending them to College
Ave, you can alleviate the over capacity at Victory, Edward Johnson and John McCrae without
disrupting any of the regular track programs.
Sincerely,
Information Received
I am a very concerned parent of Fred A. Hamilton P. S. and felt strongly that I needed to
contact you about the review regarding our wonderful community school.
Our Parent Council has invested heavily in the school and the school community. Council
paid for new school equipment installed on the playground (permanent contribution to
neighbourhood) and has been saving for new equipment as well. We feel like our "hands are
tied" as we would like to add more to the school grounds for the students, but our future is
uncertain...
Our Parent Council contributes to primary reading night, contributes to math and literacy
programs at school and therefore acts as an education support.
Our annual BBQ is a community building event that brings families together and is the main
fundraiser. Because of the number of at risk students and the percentage of families in rentgeared-to-income housing, parent council has been very sensitive about the type and amount
of fundraising that is reasonable and responsible in our neighbourhood.
School Council lobbied for the installation of lights at Scottsdale and Kortright and Kortright
and Ironwood intersections for child safety.
Our school provides the high school and University of Guelph with rich volunteer
opportunities due to our central location.
Our school really provides the "glue" which binds this neighbourhood together...
Furthermore, as an educator myself and full-time working mom, I find the daycare facilities
provided by the Y Daycare at FAH ESSENTIAL. Should our children need to attend an
alternate school site (like Kortright Hills) daycare services provided for before school care
would not be available. (I think Kortright Hills only has the after school care provided.) This
will be a major concern for FAH families with working parents that rely on the daycare service.
Finally, I need to emphasize the fact that FAH is a walking school. All of the children (with the
exception of the gifted program students) are able to walk to school and no bussing is
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required). This is environmentally friendly, cost effective and of great benefit to our children's
health and overall well-being! A "walking" school is of great value and should be maintained
wherever possible.
Thank-you for your time and consideration of these issues.
Regards,
Information Received
Mr. Borden, and Ms. Neimanis,
We respectfully submit this application to present as a delegation regarding the Central
Guelph French Immersion Accommodation Review Committee report.
We wish to address the committee at the Public Meeting #2, on November 19th 2008.
We are representing a parent group from Victory Public School.
Due to the overwhelming responses from our community, we have formed this group in order
to avoid duplication of our concerns at the public meeting. To facilitate this, we are requesting
to be allowed 20 minutes to address the ARC, as we are speaking for the concerns of
hundreds of people.
Thank-you for allowing us this opportunity.
Regards,
Victory Parents Group.
Thank you for your application to delegate the CGARC. Your application has been noted and
we appreciate the fact that there will be one speaker for a group. It would be helpful if you
could identify who your spokesperson will be so he/she can be properly introduced.
Please remember that you will have 10 minutes to speak and the ARC will have 10 minutes to
ask questions of clarification. If there are handouts, please bring 35 copies.
Thank you.
3 more requests to delegate received to date. Most will present at the November 19th public
meeting.