SACPE.2015.MIN.01
SPEAKER’S ADVISORY COUNCIL ON PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT
MINUTES OF MEETING: 13th January 2015
Present: Jon Drori, Michele Carlisle, Sir Keith Ajegbo, Mike Saunders, Rita Clifton, Nicky Edwards
Aileen Walker, Lee Bridges, John Benger, Sir Alan Haslehurst (Chair of Administration Committee),
Helen Wood (Clerk of Administration Committee), Dr Richard Ware (Programme Director for Palace of
Westminster Restoration and Renewal), Gary Hart (SACPE secretary)
Apologies: Clare Hughes, Lord Allan, Joanna Mackle, Simon Walker
1) Matters arising from last meeting
 The minutes of the last meeting were agreed.
 Members given some findings from research undertaken by the University of Edinburgh
about the impact of 16 yr. olds voting in the Scottish Referendum.
2) Citizenship / Civics Education
 Jon and Keith recently met with Edge Watchorn (Education Service) and Andy Thornton
(Citizenship Foundation) to discuss citizenship education.
 A letter to the SoS Education was drafted, which will also be sent to other Party leaders.
 It was suggested that the ‘benefits’ of civics should be accentuated, when it comes to the
teaching of ‘shared values.’
 It was felt that it might be better to use the word ‘democracy’ rather than ‘civics’ which
might feel antiquated.
 Members agreed that debating skills should be taught more, especially as they are
transferable skills which link in with oral skills in English Language.
 SACPE shown a copy of a letter from the Speaker, expressing gratitude.
 Mr Speaker would like to attend next SACPE meeting.
 It was felt that SACPE has provided ideas and concepts which should be continued.
 It was suggested that the Speaker might like to combine the benefits of SACPE,
consolidate previous opinions and go forward with one body.
 Democracy Prize is to go ahead. It was suggested that it might be a nice idea for DDC to
use online programmes to link in with the Democracy Prize.
 Similarly, school youth councils could also link in together e.g. Young Democrat Prize and
build on School Council Awards ceremony.
ACTION – JD to send letter to SoS Education, the Speaker and leaders of political parties re the
teaching of democracy.
ACTION – JD to meet with MS and MC to discuss potential ways to engage young people using other
media and to involve young people in an on-line consultative and collaborative community.
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3) Trial of different camera angles
 Sir Alan Haslehurst (Chair of the Admin Committee) and Helen Wood (Clerk of the Admin
Committee) provided an update:
o Original idea came from the broadcasters.
o Most MPs are not eager to engage with cameras.
o In practice, cameras have improved behaviour in the House.
o This experiment is at no cost to the public purse.
o Cameras mounted on the Table have been ruled out as they might cause obstructed
views for Members.
o Parliament controls the images.
o Trial starts on 19th Jan 2015 with coverage of whole proceedings, which are only
available for the Admin Committee, not for public viewing.
o Admin Committee will view the edited version on 2nd Feb 2015; if happy, it will go to
the Speaker for ‘sign off’ and will become part of footage available on-line.
o New camera angles could be in place by next Parliament. However, there are funding
issues: trial paid for by broadcasters, who will pay for new kit which is required?
o Practical issues: cameras will only focus on MPS speaking. There are rules governing
reaction shots which still maintain. (Rules of coverage still the same.)
o Improvement of coverage will hopefully encourage more people to watch Parliament.
o House is not using modern technology effectively, but cost might be a problem.
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SACPE response:
Two new camera angles, so not really much change regarding background shots or reactions.
Pleased to see improvements, but this should be constantly reviewed.
The risk is that this is not going far enough; the idea is to make viewers feel more engaged
and encourage change in Members’ behaviour. Current behaviour will still be shown.
Rules of coverage have to be reviewed. (There are very few rules at Holyrood.)
The public would benefit from wider shots.
New angles should make Parliament feel closer, more real, more involving.
Parliament TV lags behind other channels such as Sky News, which have rolling coverage.
Hoped that the forthcoming Michael Cockerell documentary, with cameras on the floor of
the Chamber, could help progress towards more camera angles.
ACTION – Lee to speak with John Angeli (Director of Broadcasting) to look at how different
Parliaments use camera angles.
4) Plans for new Members’ induction and constituency roadshow events.
John Benger (Acting Director General Dept of Information Services, Chair of General Election
Planning Committee) reported;
 Induction is very different from 2010, having gained feedback from Members.
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Only 19% of members attended induction events in 2010; very few attended more than one.
Why? Members too busy, in constituencies, whips tell them what to do, no staff, no office.
House staff have been trained in interview skills – ‘Interview Project’ which will be a specific
part of induction.
After the election, new Members will attend event at Westminster Hall on Tuesday.
On Wednesday, ‘Chamber Briefing’ – ½ day of induction:
o Session 1: How to set up your office.
o Session 2: Complying with standards of behaviour
o Session 3: PQs – technical advise
o Session 4: So you think you want to go on a select committee?
130 buddies from House staff recruited to support new Members, which will provide benefits
on both sides.
CPD for Members: seminars on social media, regional press, data protection, how Govt
works, how Brussels works.
Offer made to SACPE to have an induction slot, along with the Hansard Society to speak to
members re the results of market research about public opinion and member behaviour
On the Constituency Roadshows: It was feared that constituency staff had not enough
support from the House, therefore seven regionally based, informative roadshows have
taken place across the UK so far, with very positive feedback.
Tentative proposals for more events in the constituencies (‘Parliament coming to you”)
involving constituency staff, the public, Parliamentary Outreach, Universities Programme,
themed events, public engagement with select committees etc.
ACTION - JD to liaise with John Benger about SACPE obtaining a slot during Members’ Induction day,
in collaboration with the Hansard Society.
5) Architecture of the House: Restoration and Renewal Programme.
Dr Richard Ware provided an update:
 After the election, an independent report by a consortium led by Deloitte Real Estate and
AECOM, with HOK will be published (approx. 1st July 2015)
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Joint Committee to be set up and report back on a range of scenarios, make
recommendations. (Hopefully both Houses will agree!)
3 x 3 theoretical matrix:
i. Minimalist approach – continuing repairs and replacement over an indefinite period of time
‘just fix it’ i.e. drains, wiring. Minimise disruption. Meet energy targets.
ii. Ambitious outcome - scheduling works over a more concentrated period with parliamentary
activities moved elsewhere. Assumes energy targets will be more challenging in the next
decades. Improving visitor service, educational facilities, better meeting space for the public,
vastly improved wheelchair access
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Certain specified improvements - more substantial repairs and replacement over a long
period, but still working around continued use of the Palace.
Next Parliament has been described as the ‘Parliament of Decisions’ – need census, how to
best stimulate public.
Members asked about how much they would like to structure engagement
Public asked to contribute in areas of public interest e.g. access, educational facilities,
meeting spaces
Joint Committee to discuss proposals
Designers on board by Easter 2016
Consultation with Austrian Parliament ongoing, as they are going through a similar process
More could be done to improve entry to Palace i.e. Parliament Square
Public debate should be encouraged towards revamping Parliament Square so it’s more
integrated and accessible.
SACPE response:
It is good to present R&R as ‘savings’ as opposed to costs e.g. running costs will be saved.
It was pointed out that fears about costs haven’t been realised.
It could be an opportunity for a big, British restoration project that can be done really well,
like Crossrail project.
Could be opportunity for SACPE to spell out to Members the potential benefits of temporary
move and behaviour.
Any ideas which will engage the public more is good news for SACPE.
Problems have been highlighted; opportunities are created. Opportunity to articulate how
the building works for the public.
6) Priorities for change (public attitudes to Member behaviour)
 The question was raised whether MPs actually believe that ‘bad’ behaviour is effective? Do
MPs have good intentions, but change their behaviour when inside the Chamber?
 It was suggested that there should be a ‘collective charter’ amongst MPs to improve
behaviour i.e. an explicit, agreed standard that MPs sign up for.
 It was felt that often it is actually the Speaker who sets the tone in the Chamber.
 It is hoped that a new intake of members, including more women, might improve behaviour.
7) AOB and next meeting:
 Date for next meeting:
Friday 27th March 2015 10am – 12pm (tbc)
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