PNWCG STEERING COMMITTEE
Meeting Notes
May 17, 2000
In Attendance:
Bob Anderson, Spokane City Fire Dist. #9
Earl Cordes, OR Fire Service
Gerry Day (Guest)
Mike Dykzuel, OFIC (Guest)
Pam Ensley, FWS
Mark Forbes
Terry Hueth, BLM/USFS (for Mike Edrington)
Barbara Kennedy, SORO
Lanny Quackenbush, ODF
Dan Thorpe, ODF (Guest)
Jerry Williams (Guest)
Cory Winnie, BIA
Paul Werth
John Viada, WDNR
INTRODUCTION – BARBARA KENNEDY
The meeting began at 9:30 a.m. Introductions were made. Barbara Kennedy then reviewed the day’s
agenda.
NIGHT FIRE FIGHTING – DAN THORPE
Dan Thorpe gave a presentation based on his research paper, Injury Analysis During Nighttime
Operations in Wildland Firefighting, written for a course he took at the National Fire Academy. The
purpose of his research was to determine if nighttime operations where more hazardous than daytime
operations. Dan looked at the kinds of fatalities, accidents and injuries that have historically occurred
during night operations, and the likelihood of wildland fire entrapments occurring at night. He found
that reports did not refer to the time of day an accident occurred. Dan recommended procedural
changes: include the Haines Index in the night briefing and ensure that weather staff is paying
attention to it; access BLM data; capture data on the time of the injury; and conduct better accident
investigations. He encouraged the development of an operation decision criteria for working at night.
Dan suggested further research in the following areas: injuries vs. exposure hours; day vs. night;
evaluation of aggressive nighttime operations vs. limited or none; and that further studies of historical
fatalities and entrapments be conducted to determine the time of the incident.
The group discussed Dan’s presentation and possible further studies. Pam Ensley suggested that Dan
send his report to Rich Wands, NARTSE, of the Lessons Learned Center in Granite, Arizona.
NORTHWEST FEDERAL FIRE WEATHER PROGRAM OPTIONS –
TERRY HUETH/GERRY DAY
Terry Hueth provided background on Bill Clark’s report to revalidate the decision by PNWCG, the
BLM and the Forest Service on the positions and directions for the Northwest Federal Fire Weather
Program Options. Terry presented the results of the report and the recommendations made by Bill
Clark and recommended going forward with the revalidation, although funding was still an issue.
Terry then turned the presentation over to Gerry Day to review the recommendations.
Gerry Day presented an overview of what the program would look like if the position was or was not
hired. Gerry supports Bill Clark’s recommendations. If the Forest Service and BLM can meet their
portion of the funding, and other federal members say they can meet their funding requirements, then
the position will be filled. The position will probably not be filled until next year.
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May 17, 2000
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The committee discussed the pros and cons of hiring the position as a terminal or permanent position.
Gerry asked for the committee’s input to make the best decision based on what the group wanted to
accomplish. After discussion, it was agreed that the five federal representatives would report back to
the group with recommendations.
Gerry discussed the requirement for local groups to monitor the performance of the Weather Service
and emphasized the importance of looking at the data objectively so that findings are based on facts.
Gerry invited group members to attend the meeting of the Weather Working Team to provide
feedback about the direction they are going and whether they are on the right track.
CACHE STUDY TASK ORDER – JERRY WILLIAMS (FOR JOHN BORO)
Jerry Williams reviewed the background of the fire cache study and reported that the results show
that users are happy with the cache system as is. There are recommendations for improvements and
efficiencies. The Operations Team is looking for an endorsement of the formation of a working
group to continue working on the recommendations made in the fire cache study, including the
recommendation to close some fire caches.
After discussion by the committee, Barbara Kennedy summarized the committee’s proposal to form a
group to take the recommendations to the next step. Recommendations to be considered by the
working group might include: working more efficiently in subgeographic areas; being more
“interagency”; having the variety of equipment needed in all caches; and working on inventories.
Barbara asked if there was agreement to take the next step. Bob Anderson suggested formation of a
task group under the Operations Team instead of a working team but said that some items are not
appropriate for a task group. Jerry Williams suggested bringing in cache managers to the meeting for
their input and asked for names of those who are willing to help in this effort. After committee
discussion, Barbara summarized the committee’s position that relocation of the fire cache was not a
recommendation that PNWCG could support at this time.
Barbara Kennedy asked what other recommendations committee members could not support at this
time. Lanny Quackenbush said Item 1.a., 1) Co-location of fire caches, and 2) Cache stocking levels,
should be off table for the present. Lanny said he could support recommendations 2) and 4) under
1.a). Earl suggested the group just look at how the caches could be run more efficiently, not closure
and relocation. Committee members suggested giving the group the priorities PNWCG wants them
to focus on.
Barbara asked if there were other areas the committee would like them to focus on. Bob Anderson
said he would support utilizing the existing cache locations operated by the existing agencies, if they
sought to use those more efficiently by establishing interagency zone of influence and stocking
procedures and business practices. He suggested letting the team do their work and have the
committee stay out of the minutia.
Barbara Kennedy said she would get the task order to Jerry Williams.
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May 17, 2000
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NW MAC 2000 OPERATIONS HANDBOOK - JERRY WILLIAMS
Jerry Williams discussed the task order to develop a NW MAC 2000 Operations Handbook. The
Handbook had not been updated since 1996. Jerry requested signatures on the approval page so that
the handbook can be printed. The importance of the Fire Marshal’s participation and the flexibility of
adding groups was discussed. Barbara reminded members that they need to get their MAC
representative’s names to Gerry Day. Barbara will call Gerry to clarify who should attend the MAC
training July 6.
Committee members signed the approval page for the MAC operations Handbook.
PREVENTION WORKING TEAM TASK ORDER – CORY WINNIE
Barbara Kennedy reviewed the items which were left on the table at the last meeting: a decision on
pilot areas and their location; ideas for a task group to work together and implement this; and any
specific recommendations the committee wanted to give the Prevention Working Team.
Barbara recommended building in timelines if a task order is prepared. The location of possible
prescribed fires, the effect of delay in burning, and possible results was discussed. The committee
discussed the need to plan around federal prescribed fire and the need to educate the public in that
area. A recommendation had been made to target smaller areas to begin with. The committee
recommended Central Oregon (Bend, Redmond, Prineville) and Central Washington (Wenatchee) as
pilot areas. One of the requests would be to develop funding for pilot tests was discussed; neither
Oregon nor Washington has funding available.
The creation of a task force under the Prevention Working Team in liaison with the Fuels Group
to develop a public relations plan for prescribed fire was discussed. Committee members agreed
that the task force would be made up of someone from Prevention, Fuels, and Information, a
representative from each area, and a media consultant, for a total of six members. The task group
would develop a budget for the two pilot areas and manage the contract with the ad agency. An
ad agency will not be part of the task group at this time. A task order will be prepared.
WESTERN STATES FIRE MANAGER MEETING – LANNY QUACKENBUSH
Lanny Quackenbush reported on his trip to the Western States Fire Manager Meeting in Hawaii.
He offered to provide copies of material from this meeting to any committee members who were
interested. Terry Hueth, Pam Ensley, Barbara Kennedy, Earl Cordes, and Mike Dykzeul requested
copies. Lanny reported that the strong message was the perceived fall-off of interagency cooperative
working relationships at both the state and federal level, particularly with the Forest Service. He
reported on a proposal to invite federal fire managers to one day of the meeting of the Western fire
managers’ annual meeting, with that day dedicated to state and federal issues. Lanny and John Viada
wanted to share the value of the Northwest’s working relationship and encouraged the PNWCG’s
participation at the next meeting.
GIS WORKING TEAM PROPOSAL – MARK FORBES
Formation of a GIS Working Team and its possible placement under a larger working team was
discussed. The value and problems of using GIS data was discussed. Terry Hueth made a motion to
install GIS as a working team. Mark Forbes seconded. The committee discussed the need for an
ad hoc group. Names recommended for this group included Ginny Vinson Blanche France from the
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May 17, 2000
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Coordination Center, Greg Sinnet from DNR, and Mike Ziolko from ODF; Dick Lazarus and Gladys
Crabtree. The group’s instructions will be to look at future information technology needs; issues that
affect PNWCG; review the NWCG charter on the IT Working Team; and to make recommendations
to PNWCG in a white paper on how to address future needs. How this team would fit into the
Strategic Plan was discussed. Bob Anderson and Cory Winnie said it could support prescribed fire
and communication. Lanny suggested looking at the issue next year with the strategic plan, and let
the GIS group begin its work for now.
A recommendation on strategies for Goal 3.0 of the Strategic Plan will be expected from Pam, John
Viada, Terry Hueth, and Cory at the June meeting. Mark Forbes offered to temporarily act as liaison
for the GIS group.
CERTIFIED FIRE INVESTIGATOR STANDARDS – LANNY QUACKENBUSH
Lanny Quackenbush reported that there is a June meeting in Boise for the purpose of drafting final
NWCG standards for fire investigators and to begin the process of identifying training and
establishing training courses. Paul Steensland, Senior Special Agent, Forest Service, is Acting Chair
of the CWFI Working Team. Lanny has volunteered to be the representative from the Western States
Fire Managers.
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE - LANNY QUACKENBUSH
Lanny Quackenbush has the revised Weather Service agreement format from Jim Graue. Lanny
needs to know if it is in the correct legal form and asked Barbara for her input. Lanny wants to be
sure that the Weather Working Team is on board.
AVIATION WORKING TEAM - LANNY QUACKENBUSH
The committee briefly discussed the Northwest Compact Operating Plan. Lanny reported that the
Aviation Working Team had some questions and concerns about the meeting in Canada as it affected
aviation working relationships and what kind of agreements were made regarding the use of
Canadian air tankers. Barbara reported there were no changes to what was already in place.
Standards for helicopter managers were discussed at the last meeting of the Aviation Team; the team
did not support the draft letter from Jim Payne and Mike Dimmick. It was suggested that the
Aviation Team work on clarifying what training applies for interagency teams. The committee also
discussed federal rejection of state training for contract records.
OPERATIONS PLAN – BARBARA KENNEDY/ALL
Updating the operating plan was discussed. Barbara Kennedy said that each agency needs to update
and make note of what needs to be changed. John Viada reported that he did not have many changes
and asked if the plan could be extended. Barbara responded that it could; a new signature page for
2000, with addenda noted, and a cover letter is all that is needed. The Aviation Team also has some
changes to make.
The meeting was adjourned at 3:20 p.m.