Thursday, 12 December 2002
Parliament met at 2.33 p.m. in Parliament House, Kampala
PRAYERS
(The Deputy Speaker, Ms Rebecca Kadaga, in the Chair.)
The House was called to order.
COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, I am happy to announce that in the
Strangers’ Gallery we have two sets of visitors. The first group is from Muterere Sub-county in
Bukholi Central, Bugiri District. You are welcome to Parliament. (Applause)
The second group is of student teachers from Jinja Primary Teachers’ College in Butembe
County, Jinja District. You are welcome to the Parliament of Uganda. (Applause)
Honourable members, I have some announcements to make. The Committee on Legal and
Parliamentary Affairs is arranging a symposium, to be held between tomorrow and Saturday in
the Parliamentary Gardens. It is intended to build capacity for the parliamentary oversight role,
peace missions and countryside public hearings. It is organised by the Legal and Parliamentary
Affairs Committee, together with the Defence and Internal Affairs Committee, supported by the
European Union.
This is important, and I encourage those who are able to attend to do so, so that we strengthen our
oversight capacity.
The third announcement concerns our efforts as Members of Parliament to support people in the
war-ravaged areas of the North.
As you may recall, the other day the Speaker announced the formation of a special committee,
headed by hon. Godfrey Kiwanda, Member of Parliament Mityana North. He is charged with the
task of collecting your contributions of clothes to be distributed to the internally displaced people
in northern Uganda.
I note that some members have children who have been in boarding schools and they are
returning this weekend. So, I encourage you and members of your families to respond positively
to this appeal. Bring things, so that we can support our colleagues in the North.
I wish further, to announce a series of activities, which a special committee has agreed upon, on
the issue of utilization of the Shs 34 million, which we collected. We have decided that the funds
are to be used to purchase blankets for a section of the affected society, mainly the children. In
addition, we are going to purchase some plastic materials for their use.
We have also decided to widen the appeal further and get support from other NGOs, to give us
other things that we are not able to provide from the Shs 34 million. We thought that if we
addressed the children, it would have a symbolic and effective impact in that area.
We have also decided that the House should set aside a special day of prayer for the North. We
decided that on the morning of next Thursday, the 19th, we shall have an inter-denominational
prayer here. It will be with the stakeholders, religious leaders, members of the diplomatic corps
and all invited guests. So, I request you to keep Thursday morning free for those prayers.
We also expect that after praying together with the religious leaders of this country, the Muslim
community will repeat the prayers on December 20th, that is Friday. The Christian community
will continue with them on Saturday and Sunday, for the same purpose. So, I call upon the
Christian community and others who have not been included to pray with us in our efforts to get
peace in the North.
We also agreed that we should have some solidarity visits to the north of the country and hand
over these donations. We were proposing that we should leave here on Friday the 20th and go and
hand these over, simultaneously and concurrently, in the five districts that have been affected. I
would like to request members to join us in that effort.
The solidarity visit is intended for us all to know and understand the gravity of the situation, and
also to meet and commiserate with the affected people. We want to observe for ourselves so that
when we come here to legislate, we know the gravity of what we are talking about.
We also noted that the distribution of these donations would require the assistance of the NGOs,
the district disaster committees and others identified as appropriate for this cause. So, honourable
members, that is the appeal we have, and that is the programme. Thank you very much.
MR KEN LUKYAMUZI: Madam Speaker, I stand to raise a point of clarification outside the
speech you have given. It is a matter, which needs to be addressed in terms of procedure.
We are used to Thursdays as days when the backbenchers usually pose their oral questions so that
they hear from the Front Bench on matters pertaining to their respective constituencies.
Madam Speaker, I have a reminder from the Clerk to Parliament, dated three months ago, to the
effect that my burning question on electricity tariffs would be answered anytime from then. The
days have been passing, day after day, and I have never heard or seen the question being fronted
for an answer from the Front Bench.
I have, however, with regret, been notified that when some of these ministers learn that the
question before them is touchy, they do all they can to ensure that it does not come onto the Order
Paper.
I would like to seek clarification, in very serious terms, on whether that is the state of affairs. If it
is the state of affairs, then we are finished! There is a problem. Something must be done as a
matter of urgency. Otherwise, I would like to know when this question I am talking about will
next be floated on the Order Paper.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, no minister has come to my office to seek
withdrawal of a question. I do not even know which ministry you are talking about. However, let
me promise that next week, as many questions as possible will be answered.
MR AGGREY AWORI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am seeking clarification on two points:
Number one is almost supplementary to my colleague, Lukyamuzi’s, issue of business and time
devoted to our questions.
Last week we passed a resolution in this august House urging the Government to maintain the
previous position on the matter of privatisation of Kinyara Sugar Works. Two days later, I was
shocked to see in the press that the line minister is now forwarding the matter to Cabinet for
approval, when in fact he was here to change the policy and we said “no”, in no uncertain terms
I note with great pleasure that this afternoon, the honourable Minister of Finance, General Duties,
is with us. Could he throw more light on this on behalf of his ministry? Is the Government indeed
still proceeding with privatisation of Kinyara, notwithstanding the resolution of this House?
Number two is a procedural matter pertaining to the integrity of the precincts of Parliament.
Madam Speaker, two days ago, with horror I saw two banners at the gate of Parliament Buildings,
in white, black and red. They were announcing two meetings, for UWOPA and YPA.
The precincts of Parliament are very important. We cannot have advertisements pinned all over
the property. We just cannot! If any member of this august House, or any committee wishes to
tell us about a forthcoming seminar, they are free to do so either through your Chair or through
our pigeonholes. Putting a banner infront of Parliament makes this building look like a
supermarket!
Madam Speaker, I am requesting you to exercise the authority vested in you through our Rules of
Procedure, to stop such practice forthwith. I beg to request that you exercise your authority.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, you have said that these are organized by the
YPA and UWOPA. These are members of this House. I think they are entitled to publishing what
they are doing.
MR AWORI: Sorry, Madam Speaker, maybe I misled you. I was probably not very articulate or
proper in my –(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: You said you do not want banners on the precincts of this
Parliament. That is what you said.
MR AWORI: Outside, at the gate. It makes this property and the precincts look like a
commercial centre. I am saying that if they have to do so, they can do so through a
communication from the Chair, through our pigeonholes or on the notice board. But at least they
should respect the precincts of Parliament, especially the gate and the fence.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, honourable member, we shall discuss it in my office and
decide how best to advertise the activities of enthusiastic members of this House.
MR WILLIAM NSUBUGA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Some time in July, I submitted a set
of five questions for oral answer to the minister. The Clerk wrote to me a reminder that these
questions would appear today.
One of the questions was related to the suffering of the people of Buvuma Islands, regarding poor
facilitation of the police and the way the army is really beating up the fishermen. I do not know
whether the omission is deliberate, because next week we are going on recess.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, I have already said that we shall ensure that
next week, as many of the questions as possible will be answered.
MR JAMES MWANDHA: Madam Speaker, you have ruled on the questions and I hope the
Minister of Energy - unfortunately he is not here - will answer my question, which I put more
than a year ago, about AES.
I think there is a problem we need to resolve. My understanding of the way other parliaments
work is that when Parliament passes a resolution, that is a command to the Executive as opposed
to a recommendation, which is simply advice. However, when you hear things like a colleague
has mentioned here, that Parliament passed a resolution with regard to Kinyara and the Executive
has totally ignored it and gone ahead to apparently sell this company to Madhvani, you wonder
whether this Parliament –(Interruption)
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR FINANCE, GENERAL DUTIES (Mr Mwesigwa
Rukutana): Madam Speaker, I have not seen the newspaper report alluded to by hon. Aggrey
Awori, but I wish to point out clearly that it is not true that Cabinet has ignored a resolution of
this House.
It is true that following the debate and the resolution of this House, the Minister in charge of
Privatisation prepared an information paper to Cabinet, to inform them on what transpired. That
information paper was meant to bring Cabinet on board with the circumstances as they are. It is
not in any way disobedience of a resolution of Parliament. It was just to inform Cabinet so that it
could take a stand on the matter.
So, I do not know where my great friend, hon. Aggrey Awori, got the impression that Cabinet had
defied the resolution of the House, and is proceeding otherwise.
Secondly, I have heard my colleague, hon. Mwandha, saying that in other countries –
(Interruption)
MR LUKYAMUZI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. If we are to take the Minister seriously, we
should judge him with reference to history. About a week ago, it was reported that the Uganda
Government signed an agreement on the sale of UEB to ESKOM, a South African parastatal. If
what was done recently warranted coming here to Parliament to seek the permission of
Parliament and that was not heeded, how can we take Government seriously?
Is it in order for the Minister to assume that what has been reported by hon. Awori is not correct,
when recently Government did what it was not supposed to do? Is it in order for him to mislead
the House?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, I doubt whether the matter of ESKOM has
come to the Floor of this House. So I am not in a position to say whether he is lying about it or
not. I do not know about ESKOM. Please give your answer on Kinyara.
MR AWORI: With your permission, Madam Speaker, I had requested for clarification, which
the Minister appropriately ignored. However, when I asked the question, at no point did I say that
the Government deliberately ignored us. My point was that you are proceeding with the matter
notwithstanding a resolution of Parliament.
When you say you are briefing Cabinet on what you are doing, in your brief did you include the
resolution of Parliament? Did you tell the Cabinet that Parliament has said do not change the
policy?
MR RUKUTANA: What I stated is that there was an information paper to Cabinet by the
minister responsible, on the matters as they stand. As to what transpired in the Cabinet, I will not
reveal because I am bound by the oath I took not to reveal any matter that transpires in Cabinet.
MR MWANDHA: Madam Speaker, I was just getting information from the Minister. What this
House needs to be assured of is whether the Minister is going to respect the resolution of the
House. Now he is saying that he is not aware that such a resolution exists. If he is not aware, I
am sure that the Office of the Clerk can make available to him the resolution so that he can see
for himself the contents of that resolution. But it is terrible for our politics and democracy for
Government to ignore the resolution of the House. Thank you.
THE MINISTER, OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER (Prof. Mondo Kagonyera): Thank
you, Madam Speaker, and I thank the honourable members who have raised this concern. But,
Madam Speaker, unless the members have got information that is not available to me as to how
the Executive has ignored their resolution, and they produce that evidence here without merely
alleging, it becomes difficult for us to understand what their concerns are.
Why do they think that the Executive has ignored any of their resolutions? - (Interjections)Madam Speaker, protect me! Hon. Awori wants to speak all day long. He does not want others to
speak.
MR AWORI: Madam Speaker, I respect the Front Bench, and much more so my honourable
colleague who is the acting Prime Minister and Leader of Government Business this afternoon. Is
he in order to imply that I just talk anyhow all the time - (Laughter)- that I am on the Floor all the
time and without your permission, when I follow the Rules of Procedure, I respect your Chair and
I follow the instructions? Whenever you say, “sit down”, I sit down. Is he in order?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, what the Minister has said is that you are one
of the more active members of this House (Laughter).
PROF. KAGONYERA: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your very wise ruling. So, as I was
saying, we would like to know really why members think that their sentiments, let alone other
things, are ignored.
What honourable Mwandha said is correct; there has to be a formal communication to the
Executive about the deliberations of this House. A minister cannot pick what you can call
hearsay, because he has not even got access to the Hansard. It has to be the Hansard to be quoted
by the powers that are in this House, communicated to the Executive and then the Executive will
respond appropriately.
So, Madam Speaker, I would like to assure this House that there may be fears that are unfounded,
but the truth is that, this House is listened to. I thank you.
MR BERNARD MULENGANI: I thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I only have three
observations and clarifications I would like to seek.
Based on the various presentations by the Members of Parliament this afternoon, it is very
important that the Cabinet brings to our knowledge how many resolutions that we have passed in
Parliament have been implemented. The point I am trying to bring out is that it is very difficult
for a person on the Back Bench to bring evidence of what resolution has been implemented, and
up to what level.
Madam Speaker, one other thing I would like to seek clarification on is the recent budget cut of
23 percent. I believe that it had a lot of effect on the operations of the ministries and various
sectors in the country, and therefore, impinged on the incomes of various people in the country.
However, since the budget cut, none of the Cabinet ministers has come up with a statement
explaining the effects of this budget cut in his or her line ministry, let alone the Prime Minister
coming up with a statement on this.
There are a lot of people affected because of this. If there is no negative result of the cut in the
line ministries, it therefore means that we shall not need this 23 percent in the next budget. The
budget will remain cut to that effect. Then let us allocate that 23 per cent to other line ministries
that we think will help our people in our various areas of representation.
Madam Speaker, the third clarification I am seeking is; there have been various government
programmes to eradicate poverty in this country, can we get an assessment of the outcomes of
these programmes? Programmes come and go, but before their effects are felt we get another one.
We have PEAP in place, there is PMA, we have co-operative unions coming, there is PRSC; all
these programmes are addressing poverty. But if the problems causing poverty in the country are
not known, then all programmes are bound to fail.
So, I also seek clarification so that they elaborate and tell this House the various programmes that
have been put in place, how much they have achieved and how much they have failed to achieve.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Minister for General Duties, can you quickly respond to the matters
he has raised, so that we can move to something else! (Laughter).
PROF. KAGONYERA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Obviously, the members of the House are
laughing appropriately (Laughter). This is why before, we have raised some concerns about
members of the Front Bench being ambushed. And we have said before that if we were properly
informed in advance, we would give very proper answers to concerns raised by the members.
Therefore, I was briefly consulting my colleague -(Laughter)- before responding. But if I may
respond to only one aspect of this - the concern about the effect of government projects and
programmes. There are many ways through which this House gets informed. For example, if you
read your background to the budget, it would give you a lot of information about what has been
achieved. Various ministries publish either quarterly, bi-annual or annual reports, and I am
hoping that these reports are made available to Members of Parliament.
There are also review sessions between the Executive, donors, and I hope Parliament, where we
sit down and review the activities of the various sectors of the government, ministry by ministry.
That is the thing I was consulting on. I was wondering whether Members of Parliament are
formally invited to those review meetings where these issues are discussed.
Lastly, even civil society, NGOs and the like, actually get involved in the activities of the
Government. They write reports, which I hope members find time to read.
Now, if I have not answered the concerns satisfactorily, I am willing to go back, Madam Speaker,
and write a proper response. But that is what I can do off the cuff, here and now. I thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Honourable members, you may recall that a few
months ago you had wanted to discuss the affairs of hon. Lyomoki. But I did inform you that until
we either receive a report about what transpired around him, or until he surfaces, we should not
discuss the matter. I am now delighted to announce that Dr Lyomoki is back in the House, and I
would like to amend the Order Paper, under Rule 18(3), and permit him to make a statement.
PERSONAL STATEMENT
DR SAM LYOMOKI (Workers Representative): Madam Speaker, honourable members,
thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to stand before this House to give a statement
of personal explanation relating to issues surrounding myself over the last few months.
Madam Speaker, the last few months have been very trying for me, for my family, relatives,
friends, in-laws and my constituents. In spite of this, however, some people, specifically some
sections of the press and some politicians, have sought to use noisome references to the ordeal I
have suffered.
I recognise that the anxiety and concern displayed by many honourable colleagues was a sign of a
desperate desire to see me alive. This support was very necessary at the peak of my ordeal,
especially for my family.
Madam Speaker, without going into details since this matter is under investigation, in accordance
with Rule 36 of the Rules of Procedure of this House, let me state as follows, in response to some
of the snide remarks I have alluded to above:
I am sure you are all aware of what I have passed through, given the fact that there has been a lot
of speculation, rumour mongering and a mix up of certain aspects in this confabulation. It is my
right to clarify, albeit without pre-empting the police investigations.
An important landmark in all this is when some of my constituents audio-recorded proceedings of
meetings in which some illegal plans threatening my life and aimed at disrupting public peace
were made. I was handed over these tapes. When I listened to these tapes, honourable members,
they contained potentially criminal material, so I handed them over to Police.
What is important to note here is that the participants of these meetings included a former loser in
the parliamentary elections, who was dragging in some important personalities within
Government. Naturally, I was concerned but since this is under investigation, I shall not give
further information.
However, before this could be resolved, I was hit by another calamity. I was kidnapped on 24th
September 2002, put under captivity, passed through a series of situations, escaped from my
captors in Nairobi and went to a police station in Nairobi. I subsequently made a statement,
before being assisted back home with the help of Parliament and the Uganda High Commission in
Nairobi.
The circumstances and the motive of this kidnap remain a mystery up to today. I hope the Police
investigations shall unravel this riddle.
I just want at this moment to lay before this House one of the tapes, in case some honourable
members would want to look at it or to listen and hear exactly what type of schemes were being
undertaken against by personality.
Following this situation, I have been out of duty, encumbered and indisposed by police
investigations, security concerns about my life, a multiplicity of implications of this lifethreatening attack, and a series of social and health concerns.
Accordingly, since 24th September 2001, I have not been experiencing normal life activities. I am
just resuming normal official duties, and it has not been possible for me to attend sittings of the
House.
These events occurred towards the end of the previous parliamentary recess, and when Parliament
resumed, due to the fact that my absence was becoming long, I sought leave of absence from the
Office of the Speaker, in accordance with rules 88 and 89 of the Rules of Procedure of this
Parliament.
Further, this period of encumbrance and indisposition coincided with a smear campaign against
my person by political and social opponents. Therefore, this House missed the opportunity of
listening to my side of the story, the one who had actually passed through fire.
I have consequently been castigated, judged and my rights to security and natural justice abused.
This attitude against honourable members, who genuinely have a plight and are being persecuted
in their constituencies, undermines the credibility and performance of this House.
There are some circles who even before they heard my side of the story had already been
prejudiced into negative sentiments about me. Because of this, some of the government
machinery, which is expected to be impartial and fair to all citizens, was hijacked by the smear
campaign and most of the measures that have been undertaken have not been for my safeguard
but to promote certain interests principally opposed to me.
For instance, when the workers demanded for medical assessment to rule out possible poisoning
by toxins or other long-term lethal compounds, those in authority were only concerned with
selfish opinions, that I was mentally deranged. I saw this as an attack on ethics in this country, an
abuse to honesty and godliness. Has our society degenerated so low to fall prey to even the
derogatory suggestions, that I orchestrated my kidnap?
Madam Speaker, I would rather resign from politics and go back to medicine, or even preach the
word of God if I degenerate to a level of orchestrating a kidnap.
It becomes absurd, honourable members, for any right thinking member of society to start
speculating that an honourable member of this House decides to voluntarily park one of his only
two vehicles, walk through dangerous terrain into a foreign country without any document
whatsoever.
What can surely motivate a member of a highly respected profession, a simple man with humble
means of income, a person who confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour -(Laughter)- and a
father of three kids, to face such a risk! Surely, I do not see any rationale.
Madam Speaker, honourable members, I have given the above narrative to clearly show how evil
has taken centre stage in this country. I trust that this brief explanation shall allow this House to
be objective and fair when meditating over what happened to me, because today it is me but
tomorrow it could be another person.
There have been and continue to be falsehoods about my character, personal and mental standing
that the self-appointed experts of socio-economic character and brain analysis have tried to spew
around. I call upon you, honourable members, to regard this with disdain. Actually, some of the
suggestions, you just laugh at them!
I am a trained medical doctor and I know how people who are mentally disturbed behave, and I
am more qualified than any of the people who are claiming that I am mentally disturbed
(Laughter).
Madam Speaker, I was initially surprised when I received this treatment. But by the grace of God,
I have been kept going. The same God who saw me through the thick and black shall see me
through to the end. For my Lord assures me in Isaiah 43 that, “But they that wait upon the Lord
shall renew their strength, they shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be
weary, they shall walk and not faint.“
Madam Speaker and honourable members, despite this brutal and inhuman response by certain
personalities and groups, a section of the population, principally composed of folk from my home
district, workers, brethren of the born again faith, friends and relatives and some of the
honourable members here were overwhelmed by compassion.
Further, because there were fears that dangerous substances could have been administered during
this period of unconsciousness, it was arranged that I seek the services of esoteric science
pathologists in South Africa, to undertake relevant medical and bio-chemical analysis of blood
and relevant specimens, to rule out toxins or dangerous substances in my body. Medically, there
are some substances that can be injected in someone and he becomes ill even after a year.
So, I went to South Africa and they removed my blood, nails, hair and several specimens to rule
out any possible poisoning. I only returned from the Republic of South Africa some few days ago
–(Interjections)- The results will be sent from South Africa. I highly appreciate the support of
these well meaning and compassionate members of the society.
Lastly, together with my family and constituents, I would like to take special recognition of the
following: One; the divine intervention of my Lord Jesus Christ and the grace he has bestowed
upon me through all this.
Number two, friends and relatives, the entire Pallisa community, the brethren of the born again
fraternity, some compassionate honourable members, leaders and workers who stood by me and
have been a source of encouragement.
I am convinced that without their support and prayers, it would not have been possible for me to
be alive today. The countrywide prayers by those who believe in the protection and deliverance of
God were able to assist me, I am sure, to be able to come back alive.
I want also to appreciate the three private security guards on a Nairobi street who were the first
security personnel I made contact with during the escape, and who subsequently led me to the
police station.
I want to appreciate the excellent and high level of ethical and professional standards portrayed
by the Kenyan police force, where I first reported after escaping from the vehicle my captors
were confining me in. Specifically, the OC/CID of the Nairobi CPS, for his generous offer of the
first cup of tea after several days of starvation at a critical time when it appeared I could no longer
stand the hunger pangs.
I want to appreciate the staff of the Uganda High Commission in Nairobi for all the efforts to see
me safely back, including offering me lunch. I thank specifically, the first and second secretaries
for working out emergency travel documents and even walking me through the Jomo Kenyatta
International Airport Immigration into the Africa One plane, to ensure I am not halted.
I want to appreciate the Parliament for all the arrangements to fly me back, and specifically the
officers who got involved in it.
I want to appreciate the Uganda Police and other security agencies including Parliamentary
security for all that they have done to safeguard my life, to make my security a reality and to try
to bring to book the perpetrators of the evils against me. I am confident that with all the available
clues, enough evidence shall be adduced to promote justice.
Madam Speaker, I want to appreciate the credibility of His Excellency the President as one of the
few leaders who were not obstructed by deliberate negative publicity orchestrated by a complex
network of interests. As the executive head of our country, his compassion, encouragement and
support have been commendable and are appreciated. His objective action went a long way in
safeguarding the constitutional guarantee of security to all citizens and restoring confidence in the
State.
Lastly, honourable members, I am back and I am sure you will appreciate my contribution to the
best in this House. Thank you very much for listening to me.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Honourable members, as you know, this is a personal
explanation and under Rule 36 it does not attract debate. So, we shall let the matter rest for now.
LAYING OF PAPERS
THE CHAIRPERSON, PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE (Dr Okulo Epak): Madam
Speaker, I beg to lay on the Table the Audit Report of the Auditor General for the period 1st July
1995 to June 1998. I beg to lay on the Table.
But, Madam Speaker, with your permission, you will notice that this is a report on accounts up to
1998. It means there is a backlog of auditing of the accounts of the office of the Auditor General.
I also understand that the Ministry of Finance has not yet submitted a recommendation to your
office for Parliament to appoint the auditors for this purpose, and I would wish to suggest that that
be done. Thank you very much. I beg to lay this on Table.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. The appropriate action will be taken.
BILLS
SECOND READING
THE NATIONAL RESISTANCE ARMY (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2002
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (Ms Ruth Nankabirwa): Thank you very
much, Madam Speaker, honourable Members of Parliament. When the bill was committed to the
relevant committee, that committee invited Ministry of Defence and the two ministers in that
ministry, together with the army leadership, to appear before the committee. When we appeared
before them, the committee noted some important points, which I would like to read:
One of the points they noted was that the NRA (Amendment) Bill, 2002 was a subset of the
proposed Uganda People’s Defence Forces Bill. And if the NRA (Amendment) Bill is passed, it
would be repealed when the draft of the comprehensive bill, the UPDF Bill, is passed into law.
They also reminded us that the 6th Parliament rejected the Deployment of Forces outside Uganda
Bill because it was piecemeal, and the Minister of State for Defence then, in November 2000,
undertook to table the comprehensive bill.
Madam Speaker, I went on consulting my colleagues in the House. The Government Business
Committee, chaired by Her Excellency the Vice President, sat and discussed this point. They
noted the concerns of the committee and noted the importance of bringing a comprehensive bill. I
went ahead and wrote to the Speaker.
On 18th October 2002, I wrote to the Speaker, hon. Ssekandi, to request him to withdraw the
NRA (Amendment) Bill and to make sure that I move very fast and table the comprehensive bill,
which is required by the Members of Parliament. The Speaker replied my letter. He said that he
appreciated the steps I was taking, and he hoped that the comprehensive Uganda People’s
Defence Forces Bill would be fast coming before Parliament, since it is long overdue.
Madam Speaker, I wish to apply Rule 114 (1) and (2), which reads:
“(1) The Member in charge of a Bill may, at any time give notice that he or she wishes to
withdraw a Bill subject to the approval of the House.
(2) Whenever the House grants its approval for withdrawal, the Bill shall stand withdrawn save
that the same Bill may be re-introduced after re-publishing it in the Gazette”
I am not intending to re-introduce the NRA (Amendment) Bill but rather, I would like to move a
motion for the House to allow me to withdraw this NRA (Amendment) Bill so that I can move
very fast and present the comprehensive bill. I beg to move, Madam Speaker.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, I have looked at the letters written by the
ministry regarding this bill, and I am satisfied that in compliance with Rule 114, notice was given
of intention to withdraw this bill. However, such withdrawal is subject to the approval of this
House. Can I now seek the views of our committee on what we should do?
MR KULE MURANGA (Busongora North, Kasese): Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is a
report of the Committee on Defence and Internal Affairs. I am standing in for the chairman who
has lost somebody, and the Vice Chairman is on maternity leave (Laughter).
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, the honourable member is the acting chair of
that committee and he has my authority to present that report. Proceed!
MR KULE MURANGA: Madam Speaker and honourable members, the NRA (Amendment)
Bill, 2002 was read for the first time on 1st and was then referred to the Committee of Defence
and Internal Affairs, in accordance with the Rules of Procedure of Parliament.
The committee, while considering the bill, proceeded as follows:
1. Studied and analysed the NRA (Amendment) Bill, 2002 –(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable member, I think you are actually required to go to the
recommendations of the committee. Do not go into the body because that would mean a second
reading.
MR KULE MURANGA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Our observations were as
follows:
The committee agrees with the letter and spirit of the memorandum of the bill whose object is to
amend the National Resistance Army Statute, 1992. And the committee observed that the bill is
contained in the proposed –(Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go to the recommendations, honourable member.
MR KULE MURANGA: The bill is part of the major one. Therefore, after thorough discussion,
the committee recommended as follows:
• Parliament takes reservation on the NRA (Amendment) Bill, 2002.
• The Minister undertakes to table before this august House the proposed Uganda People’s
Defence Forces Bill, 2002 as soon as possible, in any case not exceeding six months from today.
• Parliament awaits the tabling of the proposed Uganda People’s Defence Forces Bill, 2002 and
the sub-set bill under that.
I beg to report, Madam Speaker.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, as I said, in compliance with Rule 114 notice
was given in October, the Minister has now withdrawn, and our committee supports the
withdrawal. I now put the question that the recommendation of the committee be adopted.
(Question put and agreed to.)
MOTION THAT THE HOUSE NOTES WITH APPRECIATION THE ADDRESS
DELIVERED TO PARLIAMENT ON THURSDAY, 21 NOVEMBER BY HIS EXCELLENCY
THE PRESIDENT, REGARDING THE SECURITY SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY IN
GENERAL AND NORTHERN UGANDA IN PARTICULAR
THE MINISTER OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (Ms Ruth Nankabirwa): Thank you very
much, Madam Speaker. I beg to move that that item on the Order Paper be stood over.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are your reasons?
MS NANKABIRWA: Madam Speaker, I have realised that the honourable minister who is
supposed to move this motion has been sent to do a major duty. I received this information at 2.00
O’clock. Therefore, I could not undertake this duty to present this motion. That is why I am
requesting Parliament to allow us to stand over this motion.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, honourable members, we defer this motion to next week.
MR MARTIN WANDERA: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. You did advise that
questions that have been put to ministers would be scheduled to next week. I however, wish to
express concern that this House is not in keeping with provisions of Rule 25 (3), which states,
“A Minister shall not take more than two weeks to respond to a question from a Member.”
There are questions that were put before ministers over 12 months ago. I am interested in
knowing whether the members on the Front Bench are above these rules. I am particularly
concerned because I have a very serious question before the Minister of Finance. The two weeks
have elapsed, and I would like to get assurance from him that he will respond to this question
next week. It is about the funding of the Industrial Court.
MR RUKUTANA: The Minister of Finance is very ready and prepared to answer the question.
MS RUTH TUMA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Just like all other honourable members of this
House, I am equally concerned that our district is paralysed. We do not have a public service
commission, and one of the questions we had put for oral answers was concerning the district
service commission. We are lacking personnel in our district because the guidelines for
appointment of the members of a public service commission have not been circulated to the
districts –(Interjections)- At least we do not have that in Jinja District.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable members, I have already said that questions that have
not been answered will be answered next week. And also, if you put a question on the Order
Paper and the minister fails or refuses to answer it, you know what to do. We have a rule to
express displeasure, and you can use it.
MR LUKYAMUZI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The question on the Floor is derived from (Interruption)
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, there is no question on the Floor.
MR LUKYAMUZI: What I am saying is, if we go by Rule 34 of our Rules of Procedure, we
have a Minister of State for Defence and we have a Leader of Government Business. I am seeking
some clarification on a serious note. His Excellency the President has already delivered the
speech, what Parliament is trying to do now is to discuss the speech. What explanation is the
Leader of Government Business giving as to why we cannot proceed?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. Lukyamuzi, I have already made a ruling with regard to that
matter. It will be discussed next week.
PROF. MONDO KAGONYERA: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your very wise decision. I
would like to request members that in order for us in the Office of the Prime Minister to hold
these ministers accountable for answering these questions, if it meets your favour, let us have
those questions again - (Interjections)- Yes, if you please, but if you think that the Minister must
anyway know, that is okay.
I am requesting, Madam Speaker, that whether it is the Office of the Clerk, whether it is Members
of Parliament who must have their questions answered and they want us to hold these ministers
accountable, let us have evidence for these. That is a very simple request, Madam Speaker. I
thank you.
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable Minister, I find that request unreasonable, for the
following reasons: We have a well established practice that when a member asks a question, it is
sent to the minister concerned, it is sent to the Prime Minister, and to the Minister of
Parliamentary Affairs. Every single question is already in your ministries. Between now and
Tuesday, how will you assemble these? I think this is not reasonable. The questions are in your
ministries and we shall put them on the Order Paper. For those who do not answer, we will know
what to do.
Honourable members, I want to thank you for the work you have done this week. We adjourn to
Tuesday next week at 2.00 p.m.
(Parliament rose at 3.35 p.m. and adjourned until Tuesday, 17 December 2002 at 2.00 p.m.)