EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
Author Warren Bennis
Geeks & Geezers
Warren G. Bennis is a prolific writer who has authored (or co-authored) 27 books and almost 2,000 articles on business management. Bennis is a Distinguished Professor of
Business Administration at the University of Southern California and the founding chairman of USC’s Leadership Institute.
The subject of this interview is his most recent book, Geeks & Geezers, which he coauthored with Robert J. Thomas. In true Bennis fashion, Geeks & Geezers explores what creates and defines great leaders by examining those individuals who grew up in the First
World War/Great Depression era and those who emerged during the age of the Internet and World Wide Web. This book answers the key leadership question:
“Why are some people able to extract wisdom from experience, however harsh, and others are not?”
Warren Bennis agreed to an exclusive interview with Chamber Executive for an inside look behind the book.
CE: What motivated you and Bob Thomas to write Geeks & Geezers ?
Bennis: A number of things. First and foremost, I was interested in understanding the
“thought world” of that huge group who has grown up visual, virtual and digital. There are some 82 million of them out there--larger than the Boomer spike in population.
This is the group that was getting on the Internet when they were in kindergarten—some of them in pre-school. I teach them and wanted to know how to connect with them better. I wanted to understand their thought worlds.
Equally important to me is understanding the older group—the Geezers, as we fondly called them. They are the individuals 70 and older who were still vitally engaged with life, keep reinventing themselves and keep their eyebrows raised in curiosity. Think of
Churchill, Mandela, or other Rushmorean examples, who assumed leadership of their nations in their 70’s. Or Philip Johnson, still creating great architecture in his 90’s. Or
Bob Galvin, who still has an active role at Motorola. Or Robert Altman, directing movies in his 70’s or…well, I could go on and on.
At the same time, I was interested in the reciprocal of that. Those individuals who get stuck, get “resigned” or bitter and cynical. Those who give up their dream and dry up and wither, so to speak, like the proverbial raisin in the sun. There is a splendid line from an ee cummings poem about people who live lives of regret, “regrets fly kites through their eyes.” They are a sad lot. We wanted to find out what happened to them, why they couldn’t recover their dreams, or why they couldn’t overcome whatever obstacles were in their path.

CE: Tell us what you found out?
Bennis: The leaders we interviewed all faced and overcame a transforming event or
“crucible” in their lives. They traversed these crucibles successfully and learned much of value from them. In fact, the thesis of our book is that all exemplary and effective leaders do not let such experiences determine their outlook and behavior. Rather, they shape experiences, so they can harvest specific life lessons from them to serve them in leadership roles.
CE: After interviewing 43 outstanding leaders, ranging in age from 21 to 93, were there any significant surprises?
Bennis: Great question!
Two major surprises. First of all, we found the differences and similarities between the
“young ‘uns,” (the Geeks) and the old ones (the Geezers) less interesting than what we learned about how they developed as leaders . We discovered that the way both groups responded to challenges, obstacles and overwhelming setbacks was profoundly important to how human beings developed.
The first question we asked all of our “subjects” was about the most significant events in their lives—those moments of epiphany that shaped them as human beings. These stories are amazing. All of their stories are what Joseph Campbell called a “hero’s journey.”
We didn’t expect that.
But, the biggest surprise came when Bob and I did a content analysis of these stories. We identified four major factors: adaptive capacity, an authentic voice, a capacity to engage others in shared meaning and a strong sense of purpose/drive. It was then we realized that these factors are identical to leadership competencies. So how people respond and adapt to challenges are, to use the lingo of our trade, “isomorphic,” or identical to what we consider to be timeless qualities of exemplary leadership.
CE: An entire chapter in Geeks & Geezers is devoted to “crucibles.” How can an era, societal values and defining moments create a process with “galvanizes” certain individuals as leaders?
Bennis: It’s hard to summarize in one paragraph. But, I think you can say simply that
Geeks have grown up during a time in American life that has been an uninterrupted period of growth and responsibility, as well as one of an increasing reliance on the marketplace. In fact, when the market trumped politics and the US became the singular world power (unparalleled in history), a hegemony emerged even more powerful than
Britain during the 19 th century. So this is an educated and affluent group and, for the most part, a group with fancy degrees, who have had passports practically since birth.
Their world is boundless, without constraints, and the angst that they may feel grows out of choices, options and opportunities.

The Geezers, on the other hand, grew up and were influenced by the Depression and
World War II. There were keenly aware of limits and constraints, and of duty and obligation. While they many not be the “greatest generation,” they certainly contributed to the foundations of our society.
Consider the differences between the movies of the 1930s and the movies of the 1980s— between “Matrix” or “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” versus “Gone with the Wind” or
“Some Like it Hot.” Consider the differences between Bing Crosby and Bono. Well, you get the idea.
CE: In The Leadership Engine , Noel Tichy makes an assertion with which you presumably agree: That all organizations need effective leadership at all levels, not just at the top. In your opinion, how can such leadership be developed throughout a chamber organization?
Bennis: You’re right, I do agree with Noel. The short answer is that it has to start at the top. The top leadership group has to create enabling systems throughout the entire system to facilitate leadership development. They do this through leadership development educational programs—think GE’s “people factory” and Motorola
University. They also do it by making clear which leadership requirements are important, how to develop them, and then by rewarding specific behaviors which will nourish the ideal leadership competencies needed to succeed.
It all begins with the CEO who sets the right example and leaves no doubt how important leadership development is at all levels. While CEO, Jack Welch spent at least 20% of his time helping to develop GE’s next generation of leaders. Roger Enrico did the same thing when he was CEO of PepsiCo.
CE: In The Leader’s Voice, Boyd Clarke and Ron Crossland introduce their concept of
“OneVoice”: Everyone involved in an organization identifies with its mission and its values; does everything humanly possible to achieve the organization’s objectives; and most important of all, considers herself or himself to BE that organization. This seems to be what you and Thomas had in mind when suggesting that a “crucible” give leaders their
“distinctive voice.”
Bennis: Yes. I’m all for “OneVoice” in the sense that Clarke and Crossland have in mind
(shared vision, values, and commitment), but I also think it is important to have diversity of talents, skills, perspectives, and opinions. Not chaos, of course, but creative turbulence.
Here are two imperatives. The first is alignment: getting people moving in the same direction. Making sure everyone is in alignment with the organization’s values and getting their talents in alignment with the work that needs to be done. This requires meticulous and constant coordination by effective leaders.

The other imperative is adaptability. For decades, common and control leadership ruled.
Today, while leaders must have high standards, be attentive, and hold people accountable, they must also be flexible.
One final point. All customers doing business with an organization should receive the same high level of service, no matter whom they deal with in that organization. The most successful organizations, such as Southwest Airlines and Ritz-Carlton, have “OneVoice.”
More important, they have “One Message”: We care, we always do our best, and we will do even better.
CE: Will there be societal values and defining moments, which you think may
“galvanize” new chamber leaders throughout the next year or two?
Bennis: Of course. There will always be crucibles. Geeks, especially, have learned a great deal about learning. In my own encounters with them, I see them as futurists. They are not feeling threatened by rapid change. They tend to have protean careers.
Entrepreneurship seems to be in their genes.
Geezers share the same zest for life and have confidence in what they see as almost unlimited possibilities. Several of the Geezers we interviewed couldn’t wait to begin the next new day-- to take on the next great challenge. They have a certain hardiness.
The most effective leaders (Geeks or Geezers) almost never think about their age or anyone else’s. In the next several years, some leaders will be galvanized by crucibles and emerge stronger…others will be consumed by them.
CE: Why conclude Geeks and Geezers with Edith Warton’s observation that “in spite of illness, in spite even of the arch enemy, sorrow, one can remain alive long past the usual state of integration if one is unafraid of change, insatiable in intellectual curiosity, interested in big things and happy in small ways”?
Bennis: I have always loved that passage. It just seemed to us an appropriate way to end our book. Wharton expresses so well what the Geeks and the Geezers we studied share in common. For them, age is essentially irrelevant. Youth and old age are states of mind--attitudes really--rather than anything physical. To paraphrase Henry Ford, whether you think you’re young or you think you’re old, you’re right!
CE: Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Geeks & Geezers is a truly fascinating book. We look forward to your next book, Crucibles of Leadership .
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Robert Morris reviews business books for ACCE and 25 other Web sites, including
Amazon.com, Borders.com (which ranks him #5 among their “Top 100 Reviewers”),
HR.com, National Association of Manufacturers, and Business & Professional
Women/USA. Based in Dallas, Morris is co-managing partner with Gary Vike of Morris

Vike International, a management consulting firm specializing in executive development for corporations and professional associations. Robert Morris can be reached at interllect@mindspring.com
.