Richardson Transcripts (CT6)
Mr B C Harrison, Vice Chairman of Herberts, talks about the firm commencing with a short history of the founder,
Sir Alfred Herbert.
Alfred Herbert, native of Leicester, son of a farmer, (mm) parents intention he should go to University with the
idea of becoming a parson, ultimately persuaded his parents to let him join an old school fellow William Hubbard
as an apprentice to a firm of engineers in Leicester - that firm was Jessops wasn't it? (mm) ---- Alfred Herbert
was one of six apprentices earning five shillings a week. There were 150 people employed making building,
making - building cranes, hoisting and lifting machinery, steam engines and in general engineering. At that time
there were no milling machines, no turret blades, no gear cutting machines, gears were cast, no twist rules and
no nor micrometers not even a blue-print. It appeared that superintendents and foremen carried all information in
their heads and then by ingenious and often miraculous methods worked the unit parts into a finished product.
Some amazing achievements and anecdotes in Herberts early experience of work but time does not permit, but
what a training and an acquired practical ability those engineers of yesterday had before being thrust into the
world of metal cutting to devise their own future. Now then this is, this is Alfred Herbert---------- no no I'd better
read this bit. And this Alfred Herbert did. In 1887 he came to Coventry which then had a population of 45,000 at
a time when the ribbon and watch trades most important to the City were suffering grave depressions through
foreign competition, also at a time when the cycle trades were being introduced to find work for the unemployed
skilled watchmakers. He came to Coventry with intent to join his brother but eventually took a job managing a
small and not very -------- in general engineering business owned by Coles and Matthews in the Butts - district of
Coventry. Incidentally something which isn't in this report and I'll add - one of their main lines of business was
the renting out of - tractors and - ploughs. You remember they used tractors which cabled a plough backwards
and forwards across a field. This was one of their main lines of business (No, we don't do you? no, no. Cabled it
backwards and forwards?) Yes, you remember the old cable tractors, old cable ploughs don't you? (No, we knew
- we knew that there was a development of steam traction in connection with, as an early attempt to mechanise
agriculture but we did not know the detail, that in fact you had a cable power.) Well the way it used to work, there
were two tractors one on either side of the field (oh yes) with a big drum underneath (oh yes) and this drum
connected a cable to a plough (yes) and it was a strange concoction of a plough which tipped over one way or
another so that the -- the the - shore - shares and so on went into the ground the right way and they used to
plough the field by pulling the tractor - the plough across one way (mm) then move the pair of tractors forward
one width whatever it was whether it was a one, two, three or six share plough and pull it back the other way and
this way and, and, this was one of the things which ---- Coles and Matthews used to do, to rent out these things
(mm) to farmers. - (Why didn't they catch on? Cost too much?) Well (lady's voice - you wouldn't save either time
or labour) (You wouldn't save anything would you?) No, but I think it was the start of mechanisation of agriculture
(oh yes) that the modern method of having the tractor pulling a single plough is much more versatile. (Oh yes
quite) You've got to have a field of a certain dimension haven't you? (yes) Generally speaking it's got to be
rectangular (mm) and you wanted long pulls and so on (mm). Mind you I would think that also some of the things weren't - as good as they need to be. I should think the cables need to be pretty powerful (mm) - and in
those days they probably hadn't got such powerful steel cables as we have today (mm, yes, right - interesting
however). Mm, anyway, that - that was one of the things that Coles and Matthews did. (yes). After a year or so
his old school fellow, apprentice William Hubbard joined him in partnership and they bought the Coles and
Matthews business and carried on as Herbert and Hubbard (yes). Their respective fathers gave them £2,000
each by way of capital, a goodly sum to start a business at that time. They spent £250 to build a small workshop,
they also bought a few good machine tools amongst them a Universal Mill which could cut gears and a
cylindrical grinder. Both were American made. Also a Muask? screw cutting lathe. They started making small
machines, hand lathes and drilling machines and milling machines mainly for the expanding motor trade.
The lathes with compound rests sold very freely at £28 each. By way of improving on current designs of hand
lathes, Herbert and Hubbard increased the belt width from an inch and a half to three inches, they made the
compound rest twice as strong as was then in practice and put a 2½" hole through the spindle, provided a
Capstan? caption? of the pilot wheel? mounted a cut off slide on a saddle which had a chasing saddle and quick
withdrawal, thus was born the No.4 Capstan Lathe of which with its continually improving descendants many
thousands have been sold throughout the world. It is calculated that over 45,000 Lathes of this capacity have
been sold. The engineering world would say that the Number 4 is better known than a bottle of Bass. Incidentally
(That is a dangerous remark I should have thought.) Is it? (yes) (laughter) I think it's only dangerous in the
modern context but I wouldn't be surprised to find that -- a Number four Capstan was known before Bass was
ever made.
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,,,...............loan and not making much of a living, however they found a sideline which was largely responsible
for stabilising financially the beginnings of this organisation. They obtained an agreement from a French
Company to be agents in the U.K. for Wells Steel Tubes (They did indeed.) Owing to their close contact with the
cycle industry Herbert knew the market and the contacts and thus the Tubes were soon required in large
quantities and giving a good turnover with a satisfactory profit. This in fact was the making of the business (oh
yes of course it was). Yes, they even exported to America. Sales in 1891 were three quarters of the total output
in that year. For reasons unknown, Hubbard decided to return to Leicester so Alfred Herbert bought his share of
the business and carried on under his own name until a small private Company of which he was Chairman and
Governing Director was formed in 1894. It says "reasons unknown" here, but they had a quarrel (oh yes, mm) but the basis of the quarrel we don't know. From then onwards the Company grew from strength to strength. In
18 – 89 the total number employed was 12. When Sir Alfred died in 1957 in the 91st year of his full and vigorous
life, the Company employed over six thousand. It then had four manufacturing plants in or near Coventry, which
had a floor space of nearly a million and a half square feet. (Four? where were they?) Look (four) Four, yes
(yes, yes) - (out at Edwick?) Edwick, Red Lane, Exhall and Lutterworth (mm, right) - had eight branch offices, no
wait a minute I've jumped something there, had four manufacturing plants in or near Coventry, which had a floor
area of nearly a million and a half square feet and approximately three thousand machine tools in use. Had eight
branch offices in the U.K., had subsidiary companies in France, India, Italy and Australia. Herbert was the first
Machine Tool Company to open an office in Australia, had appointed Agents in 65 other countries, some of
those Agents have been with the Company for over 50 years, had acquired the .......... Instrument Company, a
Company recognised as the leading metrology firm in the U.K. at that time at Bletchworth.
What of the man, Alfred Herbert, why and how did he succeed? He was recognized as an outstanding
individualist, so characteristic were the founders and leaders of the machine tool industry and as good fortune
often does favour the bold so Sir Alfred who was knighted in 1917 may be said to have had a fortune on his side
in starting his engineering business in the still early days of this mechanical age, starting in Coventry which had
been the pioneering centre for so many industries, ribbons, watches, cycles, motor cycles, motor cars and
aircraft and in this modern age rockets and guided missiles. But good fortune alone is not enough and it was
characteristic of the man that he should appreciate the possibilities and enterprisingly set out with a firm
determination – of them - I don 't know what that - it doesn’t 't make good reading does it? Whilst helping to meet
industry's new and growing needs with their four machines, in doing so he was greatly aided by those whom he
so ably gathered about him. Frugally anticipating the future too, both he and they realised the importance and
the potential of the two way trade in machine tools overseas. So it was that Sir Alfred's personal fortunes
flourished, as did those of the Company of which he so unquestionably was the head.
From the outset, Alfred Herbert's declaration to produce only the best possible machines from the best available
resources and skills , training, etc. at the same time an elite manpower as an investment for the future did not
entirely satisfy his aims . Whilst his engineering skill piloted the basic major mechanical designs his acutely
perceptive mind was projecting beyond the confines of his own successful enterprise and examining the
problems of manufacture and productivity on the outside. Two basic requisites for manufacturing efficiency
became established considerations in every aspect of the Company's development. 1. Maintaining competitive
advantage in productivity depends directly upon keeping in touch with the development of production methods
and upon implementing them at precisely the right time, and 2. Machine utilisation must be kept at the - possible
maximum to ensure maximum efficiency.
It was quite remarkable that re-thinking on productive efficiency in recent years has offered no better conclusions
although of course technological progress in recent years has been staggering. His contribution to promulgating
up-to-date information on metal working techniques was to publish regular summaries of progress in his own
organisation (mm) thus the Herbert Machine Tool Review was born in 1913. It is today one of the most highly
regarded specialist technical publications in the world. Probably the wealth of information streaming from his
insight into - into industry prompted our founder to offer a sales engineering service to industry at the turn of the
century. For over sixty years Herbert had offered facilities to solve their customers' problems, to recommend the
most suitable machines and equipment for required production, and give a very reliable and often guaranteed
estimates of production. The Group continues to give this service dealing with approximately 700 enquiries per
month. I don't think we want to publish that 700 by the way (No) - We have recently extended the service. We
have appraised/praised? the entire manufacturing effects since the customers existing plant equipment and
methods. This has been done in several large well-known concerns in this country. Aware of the vital need to
keep expensive machinery cutting he recognised the need to foreshorten the distance between the head works
whose reputation for service was spreading and the expanding industrial centres throughout the country, where
his machines were being worked in increasing numbers. With this in mind he began opening branches to carry
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machine spares, tools and other machine shop accessories as well as skilled personnel. When subsequently
overseas trading became to assume significant proportions agencies and subsidiaries were - I can't read this
word but I should say it was "established" to provide the same services to overseas customers. The rate of
expansion of services offered by the Company has always sought to keep pace with or to anticipate growth of
demand. Today Herbert branched in - branches in London, Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester, Leicester,
Rotherham and Gateshead, Bristol and Glasgow offer equipment and spares and technical devices, an
extension of the head works at Coventry. Each branch has warehousing for comprehensive stocks of equipment
and will deliver the requirements of customers by road at short notice. The branches manned by workshop
trained specialists with impressive field experience who are able to give sound advice on all aspects of
production including diecasting, plastic moulding, forging and inspection either at the branch or in the customer's
works.
Our personnel - our publicity man attributes the success of the Company to two factors. Sir Alfred's uncanny
sense of appointing the right men in charge of designs production sales and service it would appear that in those
early days he appointed his executives on their known success in the fields in which they were specialising.
Often I have heard the story of Sir Alfred seeing for himself the achievements of industry talking to the men who
contributed their success men who later were invited to join him at Coventry. In later years he selected his
executives up to Board level from his ex- apprentices who had shown promise and initiative. Another Herbert
contribution to prosperity has been a stream of trained engineers to industry throughout the world. Installing a
Herbert trained engineer in a customer's works was tantamount to having a salesman permanently on the
customer's payroll. The second point was his assistance - his insistence on building to high quality a range of
machine tools particularly lathes which in design outmoded their competitors, which in service outlived their
competitors and which in application achieved immense success in the fields for which they were designed.
During the 76 years' history of the Company it has taken out over 500 patents, the first in 1891.
And as we reflected on the achievements of this distinguished industrialist, we could not but be amazed with the
immense changes that have been wrought in industry during his lifetime and notably during his latter years. The
whole outlook today is so different in consequence of the remarkable advances in scientific knowledge both pure
and applied, but the Company of Alfred Herbert Limited continues to grow in size and status and it is keeping
abreast of modern thinking and action. Five years before Sir Alfred died the Company pioneered tape control of
machine tools in the U.K. Today their activity in this field is extensive. To expand production the Company
between 1965 and '66 acquired the Holbrook Machine Tool Company to specialise in the design and
manufacture of precision lathes, Lockwood Machine Tools of Huddersfield - manufacturers of planning and
planner milling machines, I.L. Berridge & Company of Leicester to augment production of Herbert lathes and to
make some of their imported machines which are now licensed and built in the U.K., Moodies? Electrical
Company in Birmingham which whilst continuing to supply electrical equipment designed and built to customers'
requirements and standard switch gear are also supplying to the Parent Company electrical switch gear for
machine tools including various electrical controllers for such - for a variety of machines, Lutterworth works,
extensions had been made at our Lutterworth works primarily to increase the production of Herbert De?vley Jig
Millwhich we built under licence from the American Company. We are now exporting numbers of these machines
to the United States of America.
In mid 1966 a new Company was formed in the U.K., Herbert Ingersoll Limited, a joint venture to manufacture in
the U.K. special purposes machine tool systems – Herbert owns 51 per cent of the Company and the financial
interests are such that Herbert will probably have a 20 per cent - no, I don't think we ought to put that in (oh) The factory was built at Daventry approximately 30 miles from Coventry and in the third year of operation in 1970
an annual rate of output of 4½ million pounds has been reached. It says "will be reached" here. The fact - The
first metal was cut on the 1st January 1968. The latest acquisition of Herbert was the machine tool small tool and
kindred interests of B.S.A. Thirteen B.S.A. Companies were grouped into a new subsidiary of Herbert called
Herbert B.S.A. This included the Churchill Machine Tool Company. This merger, together with new factories
Herbert opened - in Falmouth and are opening at Redditch and - at Redditch that's all - at Redditch - are part of
the enlarged Alfred Herbert Limited - The machine tool industry employs 68,000 and the Herbert Group employs
11,000 so that they have approximately one-sixth of this total. - In fact - Herbert also sells for a lot of other British
machine tool makers, Lumbs and Mills? Brown and Ward, Landis Maiden, Herbert probably sells at least a fifth
of the total output of the British machine tool industry.
In - 1968 (mm) - the whole structure of the Company was reorganised (mm) - It was reorganised to form a
Parent or Holding Company - under which were seven operating Companies each specialising in the
manufacture of different types of machine tools (yes). They were supported by four Service Divisions (yes) and 106755421
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under this arrangement the Company is now progressing to be - a specialist in the manufacture of - lathes in one
Company, boring and drilling machines in another Company, grinding machines in a third, dealing with machines sold on behalf of other Companies in a fourth (mm), small tools and equipment in a fifth , (yes),
controls of instruments in a sixth and Herbert Ingersoll the makers of special purpose and - transfer machines
(mm) - in the seventh Company (mm). (yes).
The lathe Company known as Herbert B.S.A. Limited has its headquarters at – in Birmingham (yes) the - boring
and drilling Company has its headquarters at Lutterworth, the Churchill Machine Tool Company which makes
grinding machines has its headquarters in Manchester, Herbert Associates which sells on behalf of - other
makers (mm) - has its headquarters in Coventry and so does Herbert Small Tools and Equipment (yes) Herbert
Controls and Instruments has its headquarters at Letchworth and Herbert Ingersoll has its headquarters at
Daventry.(mm) The four Service Divisions are centred on Coventry, and a fifth Service Division is about to be
created - which will be the Computer Services Division. We've had computers since 1960, - but - we are
centralising them as a Central Service Division for the whole of the Group.
He was one of the founders of the Coventry Engineering Employers Association (yes) about l9lO (mm) - and another date which I can't recall he was also one of the founders of the Machine Tool Trades Association (mm).
He - he believed in - - the firms getting together to - have their added strength in (mm) – whether they were
fighting the unions or whether they were fighting (fighting the Government) competition or the Government or
whatever it might be. They didn't fight the Government very much in those days (didn't they?) the Government
was on their side. (oh yes, the Government was mainly keeping out wasn't it?) Yes it was (It was trying as hard
as possible to keep out) Yes, Yes.
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