THIS AMERICAN LIFE
“Babysitting”
Originally Aired January 6, 2001
Produced by Chicago Public Radio
Distributed by Public Radio International
PROLOGUE
Sound of car
Mother’s voice: “OK guys we’re here, so don’t forget your stuff. And Dylan,
pulling up.
grab your snowpants.”
Studio Narration
Ira Glass: Here’s a ritual that happens in millions of American families a day.
Sound of opening
Parents dropping off their kids at babysitters.
front door.
Voice of babysitter: “Good morning. She’s got everything on. Hi sweetie. I
haven’t seen you guys in such a long time.”
Studio Narration
Ira Glass: Sarah, age nine. And Dylan, who’s six, are being left at a friend’s
house, and two other kids, Elliott and Emma, at their regular babysitter,
Christiana, who meets them at the door, who hasn’t seen them since before
Christmas. These kids have known Christiana longer than they’ve known
anyone. Four years she’s been their sitter, an eternity. Christianity takes care of
them after school every day. Christiana knows everything about them. And
they’re such old pros about being left at the sitter that they don’t think twice
about it. Mom leaves. No tears. No scenes.
On Location
Mother: Alright. Bye. I love you. Kiss. I love you. Kiss. Be good.
Ira Glass: Christiana serves cereal to the four kids. Sarah gets the power puff
Studio Narration
girl bowl. Emma gets the Barbie bowl. And then Dylan and Sarah fill me in on
the differences between Christiana and their other main babysitter. Natalia,
who’s a college student.
On Location
Dylan: She’s not as calm as Christiana.
On Location
IG: Like if you want to get away with something, who’s it easier to get away
with something, Christiana or Natalia?
Sarah: Natalia.
Dylan: She doesn’t really know the rules of our house so we say we can drink
Coke.
Sarah: You say you can wear your clothes to bed all the time. You did that for
like half a year.
IG: And why do you want to go to bed in your clothes?
Dylan: Because Then I don’t have to change.
Sarah: He doesn’t like changing. He says it takes too much time.
IG: For Christiana it’s different, she’s like a second mom.
Sarah: That’s what she thinks.
Christiana: I think of you guys as my kids. I’ve known them since they were
little. And I love them like that. I’ve seen them growing bigger and learning
things and I’m attached to them.
IG: When a mom shows up at the house to drop off yet another kid she doesn’t
use the word mom to describe Christiana. Mom, That’s her territory. She uses
Studio Narration
the word Aunt. How does she define this job? Watching children for money.
Well, today on our program, babysitters, and what exactly happens when mom
and dad are out of sight. Our show today in three acts, in the first an older
brother babysits and the younger brothers cower. Act 2 is about a day in 1988
when huge companies accidentally found themselves taking on a massive
babysitting job, because of snow. In Act 3, a brother and sister get a job
babysitting for some children who don’t exist. And before we say anything
about sitters first let’s have a brief word about Mary Poppins. Just you and me.
She is the gold standard of all fictional babysitters. Maybe all real ones. She’s
the one against all babysitters are measured by. And the movie contains what is
probably the classic modern song about babysitting. You remember, kids in the
film sing about what it is they want in a babysitter. Song clip: If you want this
choice position, have a cheery disposition, (Father: Jane, I don’t…) Rosy
cheeks, no warts, play games, all sorts. Let me stop this here. This is not the
tone we are going for in today’s program. Let’s cut through the treacle. (Sound
of punk voice: Wanted Nanny for two adorable children, if you want this
choice position…rest of song…) Music recorded by The Dishes…
5:45
IG: Which brings us to Act One. Act One: “What Big Teeth You Have.”
Studio Narration
Lots of babysitting is done by family members. In this first story, parents leave
cont.
their kids in the care of their teenage son, but instead of acting as their
surrogate parent, standing above sibling squabbles, acting as judge and
mediator, the teenage sitter stays in the center of those rivalries but with no
parental forces tempering his actions. Hillary Frank has this cautionary tale
about what happened.
Studio Narration
Hillary Frank: The Peary’s grew up in rural Idaho. When the parents went out
the oldest son Doug was left in charge of his 4 siblings. Doug was the kid of
(the set-up: characters:
gut who ruled the last 4 rows of the school bus through a combination of force
brothers, Doug in
and psych pressure. He told other kids that the driver put him in charge. He
charge)
wore a bomber jacket, rode a motorcycle, but his parents thought he was
mature enough to watch his brothers and sister.
In-person
Doug: [older, looking back] If I was going to have to tend to these kids I was
(why he acted the way
interview
going to make it fun for me too, you know. (Music)
he did; general M.O.)
HF: Doug often subjected his brothers to what he calls bravery tests. He’d stuff
(the bravery tests: the
them in sleeping bag and tie them to a tree or snap rubber bands at them until
heart of the Doug
they stopped flinching.
stories)
Studio Narration
In-person
Doug: I really hesitate to tell this one…well anyway we had this Iguana ok this
interview
lizard about three feet long. It died. Of course I was attached to it. So I put it in
(a shorter anecdote
the freezer and kept it. We’d play with it. Then put it back in freezer. After a
about a bravery test: the
year and half, we decided we needed a new bravery test. SO we decided to boil
iguana story)
and eat the Iguana. That would be the ultimate bravery test. Laughs. Music.
Well, we put it in a pot. The biggest one my mom had. We boiled it for five
minutes. Probably done. Then we ate some of that lizard. (HF laughs. Says
“Oh my god.”) I even ate some.
HF: What did it taste like?
Doug: Actually at that point it tasted like sawdust. (Music)
HF: Doug did all the bravery tests he made his brothers do. He was right in
Studio Narration
there with them. But they were on their own when it came to one of his longest
(sets up the big prank:
running pranks. I spoke with Doug and his youngest brother Mike. They’re ten
the werewolf episodes)
years apart.
Interview/separate
Mike: (Laughs.) We were convinced for three or four years of our life that he
from Doug
could actually turn into a werewolf. (Scary music.) We’d walk out of the house
and hear this: makes howl sound. And you knew he was out there somewhere.
Studio
HF: Again, here’s Doug.
Interview
Doug: We had a pasture in the back. Half acre. And they’d go out clear to the
back fence and that’s where they’d like to sleep. In the middle of the night I’d
sneak up and be the werewolf so I’d kinda crawl in the shadows and I could
hear them talking and I’d sneak up to the bushes and I’d go (makes howl
sound) and I’d hear dead silence. And one of them would go Doug’s a
Studio
werewolf.
HF: Doug kept this up for years and the kids began to dread it when their
(long shared anecdote
parents went out knowing something scary would happen until it all came to a
about a particular night
head one night. Mike was 8. The Middle brothers were 11 and 13. Doug was
with Doug scaring his
Doug and Mike/
18. It began the way it usually did. Out in a pasture surrounded by potato
brothers…from three
Separately (Did
fields. Here’s Doug.
brothers’ perspectives)
HF play
recordings for the
Doug: We had a full moon, which was wonderful. And it got to where the
other? Or ask
moon was silhouetting me and I stuck a bunch of weeds down my glasses so
questions that
they’re poking out and I rose up out of the weed patch and with the silhouette
brought them
it looked like hair. And that convinced them.
through the exact
same narrative to
Mike: And we knew the best thing would be to get out of sleeping bags and
get the different
run to the house because that was sure shelter.
perspectives?)
HF: What did you think Doug was going to do?
Mike: Well, it’s just the whole thing of being chased in the dark. And it’s not
like there was ever a lack of physical contact. You were scared for your life.
And we knew Doug was between us and the house and as we were running to
the house Doug was sitting on the roof in gargoyle position as still as the night
staring at us watching us and we ran into the house.
Doug: Well, now I’m peeking in the windows. I’m rattling the doors. I’m
trying to get in. I was always right on their heels. I made sure I didn’t quite
catch them. Just when they thought they were safe I went to the breaker and
shut the breaker off to the house.
Mike: And then all of a sudden, the lights go out and it’s pitch dark in the
house. (Music note)
Doug: It wasn’t like they were all going to die, just that they had no safe place
to think of to go till one of them thought to get to the car and lock the doors.
Mike: And as we were all sitting there looking around we realized that my
brother Steve didn’t make it out of the house.
Phone Interview
Steve: Then the next thing I know I’m in the house alone.
Studio
HF: Let’s introduce another brother. This is Steve.
Phone
Steve: Of course, then my fear went through the roof. Then I see him look in
through the patio window at me.
Interview
Doug: Well, I was still around back, and Steve was still in there. I could see
him rocking in the chair. So I thought well, I’ll get Steve.
Mike: He snuck into the house, and he saw my brother Steve. And Steve said I
don’t care.
Phone
Studio Narration
Steve: I just told him kill me or whatever. Just get it over with.
Doug: And I don’t think we ever played it again.
(end of werewolf game)
HF: These days, the brothers are all quick to point out that Doug was playing
(perspective on past
werewolf that it was just a game none of them carry resentment. But when
events)
they were kids clearly feelings were running a bit hotter. Around the same time
he had his little brothers convinced he wanted their blood, he got into a
(turnabout: Doug gets
motorcycle accident. He broke every bone in his face, one arm, and one
Interview
into accident)
irreplaceable kneecap. The force of the crash made his helmet, along with his
scalp, shoot off his head. It took around 350 stitches to sew him back up.
Doug: You know when I came home from the hospital, I had my arm in a cast,
my head in a cast, I was in a wheelchair, my face was all banged up. My
(the brothers get their
brothers said, Mom, we’ll take Doug down the road for a walk so you can have
“revenge”)
some hair, and they get me out on the highway, and they run me as fast as they
can (HF laughs) and then let go and I’m like (pretends scream) you know I’m
going down the road in a wheelchair (HF laughs) heading for the ditch and just
before I reach a ditch they catch up to me and straighten me out and go again.
(but they don’t go all
(She laughs, he laughs) And this was kind of a get even with me time. And
the way to hurt brother)
there was nothing I could do about it. And they had great fun with me that
time. I guess I was expecting a lot of sympathy and “poor Doug,” but it was
let’s get some revenge for all those times. (Music)
Studio Narration
HF: Revenge came in other forms as he got older. When Doug had kids of his
own his oldest son Cory turned out to be the same kind of babysitter as he was.
(flashes forward to
He found himself coming home from a night out and telling Cory “Next time,
these men as parents)
tie the rope around your brother’s neck a little looser.” Steve is also a parent,
of four daughters, and like Doug, he’s had moments when he found himself
flashing back to moments when Doug babysat.
Phone
Steve: I remember this one time when Doug came home with this box he said
he found on the street and you open this box and he had his finger sticking up
(Steve tries stunt out on
through the bottom of the box (HF laughs) so all you could see was this muddy
his own kid; adds new
finger. I freaked out for years about that. I still remember it vividly. Of course
context)
after he saw how freaked out we were he showed us how it worked. Pause. I
did it to my own kid, if you believe that.
HF: Laughs. You did? Why? Why would you want to freak them out?
Steve: I remembered it so vividly and when I think back on it you go, Well,
that was kinda cool, actually how he did it, so here I go, I’m going to try it
(he considers
with my own kid, OK, then I lift up the box and my oldest daughter just broke
consequences)
into tears, and I’ve been, I apologized all over myself for a week or two
afterwards.
HF: Yeah.
Steve: I hope she…she’s probably going to have as crappy a memory as I did
when I seen it the first time, you know?
HF: Yeah, Did you feel like you were in Doug’s shoes, like you knew what it
(HF makes the
felt like to be him.
connection between
Steve and what Doug
Steve: Yeah, and I catch myself wanting to tease them kinda like he did, but in
did)
a fun sort of way but my wife will go, do you know you’re acting just like
Doug.
Music.
Studio narration
HF: As an adult, Doug has gone to each of his younger brothers and
(later on Doug
apologized for how he treated them. But he also thinks if they had been less
apologizes)
aggressive with each other as kids they wouldn’t be as close now.
Doug: I know families that have grown up more mellow than us and they get
along fine and they’re very civil and they’re very happy to see each other, but
Interview
when they see each other they shake hands and I’m like give me a break. You
(reflects on positive
haven’t seen your brother for six months and you’re shaking his hand? I mean,
impact these old events
we’re grabbing each other and bear hugging, we’re jumping up and down, it’s
had on their
a whole different relationship as far as I see. Like people who have been
relationship)
through traumatic experiences together. Maybe that’s why. You feel like
you’ve been through that and survived it together. Maybe it creates a deep
bond or something. Maybe. So I think we’re closer because of it actually.
HF: Did part of you know that when you were younger that it might make you
closer when you grew up?
(HF challenges them to
Doug: You know I think we subconsciously do because after every time you
think about whether
would feel somewhat closer. I don’t think as a kid you think if I do this it’s
they knew at the time it
gonna make me closer to my brother. You just do it if it feels that way. Those
was OK and whether
are the things we did that drew us together so we continued doing these kinds
they’d do it the same
of things.
way again)
HF: When I asked the younger brothers if they’d do it all over again they all
said they would.
Mike: Yeah, I would. I loved my childhood.
(Mike makes thought
HF: Even with all the terror and danger that was there. You’d still do it all over
provoking comment
again?
that he’d do it all over
again; makes listener
Mike: Absolutely. I look back on those years with complete fondness.
think about what makes
for good childhood and
Ira Glass: Hillary Frank. She’s the author of the novel: “I can’t tell you.” She
the value of conflict and
lives in Philadelphia.
limited fear)
21:20
Note: Second story is straight personal narrative, recorded in studio.
IG: This brings us to Act 2. Act 2: In the Event of An Emergency Put Your Sister in an Upright Position. On
the day after Christmas, all across America, divorced kids shuttle from one parent to the other. If they fly, their
babysitters are the airlines themselves. This is babysitting encased in corporate procedure, and corporate language.
Kids flying without adults are called Unaccompanied Minors. Little ones get brightly colored tags hungs from their
coats or their necks. When you see them it’s hard not to feel bad for them and wonder what they’re going to say
about the experience someday when they grow up. Well. Back in December of 1988, on December 26, divorced
kids from all over the country got snowed in at O’Hare airport here in Chicago. Susan Burton was one of those kids.
Now old enough to tell the tale. She and her sister Betsy were traveling from Colorado where their mom lived, to
Michigan where they’d grown up, and where their dad lived. Here’s Susan.
Susan: There were two types of unaccompanied minors on flights out of Denver: divorced kids and skier kids. You
could spot the skier kids because they always wore something to prove they’d been to Colorado -- they had lift
tickets fanning out from the zippers of their jackets, or baseball caps that said Vail. But since today was December
26th, we suspected that even the boy with the raccoon-face tan -- the kind you get from ski goggles -- was like us -a divorced kid too.
My sister Betsy and I were traveling from Boulder, Colorado, where we moved with our mother after our parents got
divorced -- to Grand Rapids, Michigan, where we grew up, and where our father still lived. It was 1988 and I was
fifteen and Betsy was ten. As soon as our flight left Denver, my thoughts turned to our layover in Chicago. Betsy
and I loved the O’Hare airport. With its shiny food court and chain bookstores and big glass atrium ceiling, it
seemed like a beautiful new mall.
When we landed in Chicago it was snowing, snowing hard enough to shut the airport down. It was only the middle
of the afternoon and travelers were already reserving sleeping spaces by throwing their parkas over blocks of chairs.
Even floor space was scarce, and some people were stuck alongside the moving walkway. The mall had become a
refugee camp.
The departure board showed that our flight to Grand Rapids was canceled, so we went to a service desk, where an
agent took our tickets and typed things into her terminal. Then she turned on her microphone and sent a cryptic
message out over the PA.
“I have two UMs at the service desk. Two UMs at the service desk.”
“Okay,” the woman told us. “Someone’s coming by for you.”
A second woman appeared, and we followed her to a gray, unmarked door. She fumbled with her keys. I squeezed
Betsy’s hand.
The door opened onto a room packed with kids sitting on their winter jackets. There were dozens and dozens of
kids, all kinds of kids, some in small groups, the young ones conversing with stuffed animals, others looking
uncomfortable in dresses or overheated in moon boots that had been too big to pack. Most of them were facing a
podium at the front of the room, as if they'd been dropped off at the public library and were waiting for a reading by
Shel Silverstein.
At the podium, a steward put our names on a list. The woman standing next to him was wearing the uniform of
another airline. It was strange to see people from different airlines mixing, almost like something that shouldn't be
allowed.
There were a handful of folding chairs in the room and we found a free one near the center. I took the seat and Betsy
settled on the floor beside me. She got her baby blanket out of her bag and began to sniff it.
It seemed we'd never been around so many divorced kids at once. Back home, most kids had both parents. You'd
forget you were different and then you'd be at someone's house after school and the dad would come home and from
the landing on the staircase you'd see him sorting through the mail, talking to the mother in the kitchen. It was hard
to explain why this was sad. As a result, all that most of our friends knew about our divorce was that my favorite
video to rent was Kramer vs. Kramer and Betsy's was The Parent Trap.
So now it was strange to hear kids talking about the things we kept to ourselves. A group nearby was engaged in a
kind of divorced kid oneupmanship. A girl wearing a sweatshirt with a Christmas tree patch said she saw her father
only a couple times a year; a boy lying on his stomach claimed that he saw his dad even less. They exchanged a
series of anecdotes about stepmothers and took a poll of who'd been the object of a custody battle.
It seemed improper to talk so freely about these things. I didn't want to join in but I also didn't want to be left out.
I had no way of expressing this at the time, but it felt like we were part of something on a grand scale. All these kids,
here in Chicago, at the transfer point between mom and dad.
Several hours passed and more and more kids came into the room. Some of them had the suitcases you take on
sleepovers -- the ones printed with cartoon characters, like Snoopy. One girl was carrying nothing but a single
wrapped present. I had one in my bag too. I guessed it was probably for her dad.
Meanwhile, gate agents darted in and out, consulting papers and making shushing noises and yelling out names from
the podium. Being babysat by the airlines was a lot like what you'd expect. There were no perks -- no coloring books
or story hours -- no vouchers for cookies and milk. There was no one who roamed around, kneeling, wiping noses
and tear-stained cheeks. For the most part, the staffers who looked after us stayed behind the podium. They seemed
flustered, annoyed. Normally their babysitting duties were small-scale. They were good at shepherding kids along
moving walkways, and doling out little pins shaped like wings. In the UM room, they reverted to the same crowd
control techniques that they used in-flight: secure the doors, withhold information, and discourage people from
getting up to use the bathroom.
So we did what any group of fed-up, delayed passengers does -- we started to generate our own information.
In the late evening, a rumor filtered through the crowd that the reason some kids were being escorted away was that
their parents were making a bigger fuss than the other parents. Where were those kids going? The question arose
from those of us in the land-locked middle, and traveled through the crowd. The answer was transmitted back to us
by our intelligence forces stationed at the podium. Those kids got hotels. The rest of us would have sleep here, in the
UM room.
A divorced kid reacts to his parents' separation in one of two ways. As the rumor about the sleeping arrangements
spread, it became clear who was the divorced kid who acted out and who was the divorced kid who avoided conflict.
Fart noises increased. Crushed drink boxes began to litter the floor. I realized that, when thrown with sufficient
force, a Nerf ball could cause injury. Soon word came around that the system had changed, that our babysitters were
mad and they didn't care who your parents were or how many times they called -- now they were taking the good
kids first.
Immediately, Betsy lay down on her blanket; I took out the book in my bag, Catcher in the Rye. Within an hour, we
were out of there.
By now it was one in the morning. Betsy and I and a group of others followed a stewardess through the dim halls.
The metal gates were down over the entrance to the food court, and travelers were sleeping in chairs.
I thought we were headed straight for bed, but we emerged at the entrance to a hotel restaurant. Betsy and I sat next
to each other on a cushiony bench and ordered hamburgers. After the meal the group was divided up. We would
share a room with two other people. The first was a girl close to my age who was wearing glasses with pink plastic
frames. I convinced myself that she was the same girl who'd been in my lane at swim camp, years earlier, when my
parents were still married. I didn’t ask her because I didn’t want to ruin it if it wasn’t true.
The second person was a stewardess who looked about thirty. She wore a lot of make up, and she was big-boned -packed into her uniform. She wasn't mean to us, but she was pretty standoffish.
When the stewardess went into the bathroom, the swim camp girl pulled me over to the window. The curtains were
closed but red light shone in from the parking lot. “Will you sleep in the bed with me, so I won’t have to sleep with
the stewardess,” she said. I looked over at Betsy. She was sitting on one of the two double beds in the room, sniffing
her blanket. I told the girl yes. It just came out.
Almost immediately, I felt awful. When we lay down, I inched as far to the edge as I could, so that I’d feel nearer to
my sister, on the edge of the bed across the aisle. The stewardess came out of the bathroom wearing control top
stockings and a lacy slip and got under the covers like that. I’d never seen a grown woman sleep in anything other
than a flannel nightgown. I wondered if she always slept like that or if it was just because she had to get up early.
Maybe this was what all stewardesses wore, under their uniform. But maybe she just felt awkward. Or maybe there
rules about what you wore, that you had to keep covered. Or maybe she just didn't want her bare legs near Betsy.
I saw Betsy shift under the covers and curl into a ball. I now felt certain that this was the worst thing I’d ever done to
my sister, more horrible than the time I’d fed her a mixing bowl full of raw cookie dough, just to see. I wanted the
strangers removed and my family restored. I hated the swim camp girl sleeping next to me. She wasn’t from
Michigan. She didn’t have anything to do with me. On these trips to visit our father, more than any other time, all
Betsy and I had was each other. I thought of the kids in the UM room at the airport, the ones saying crass things
about the saddest thing that had ever happened in life, and how reassuring it had been when I looked at Betsy,
sniffing her blanket, the way she always had, the way I thought she would forever.
Another version of the Mary Poppins song (The Simpsons)
IG: Coming up. How hard can it be to babysit kids that do not even exist?
That’s in a minute from public radio international when our program
continues. (Music Interlude) It’s This American Life, I’m Ira Glass, each
week of course we choose a theme, bring you a variety of stories on that
theme. Today’s program, Babysitting, and what happens that mom and dad
do not find out about. We’ve
arrived at Act 3 of our
program, Act 3, Yes, there is a baby. This is a story that got
our interest because of babysitting, but that ended up being about so many
The set-up: Brother and
different things. A man in Florida named Myron Jones wrote us this letter. He
sister. Brother given
said that when he was sixteen years old, growing up without a father in
more freedom than
Buffalo, NY, he was allowed to stay out till midnight, came and went as he
sister who was
pleased, he spent a lot of time in bars. This was the 1940s and his sister,
overprotected.
Carol, had different rules, if she was let out of the house at all. Even though
she was older than Myron. This story gets to babysitting in a big, big way,
and we called him up to talk about it.
Phone interview
Myron: (on phone) She had to say exactly where she was going, who she was
Mother was focused on
with Myron
going with, she could go to church dances but only some church dances. It all
daughter’s virginity
(separate from
had to do with protecting her chastity.
Carol’s studio
interview/intercut
IG: If one were to have asked your mother at the time what would she have
with hers)
said?
Myron: She would have said you’ve got to be more careful with the girls.
Spelled P-r-e-g-n-a-n-t.
Myron: So my sister figured out a little scheme. She invented a family called
The big lie: Sister
the McCreary’s, said they needed her to babysit, and I remember when she
invents the McRearys
first told me about. She told me that’s what I did, I made up a family. I said
what do you mean? She said I made up the family I babysit for. They’re
called the McReary’s.
Studio Narration:
IG: It seemed clear once I got talking to Myron Jones that his sister Carol
Wants to get Carol’s
might have a few thoughts about this and we gave her a call. She agreed to go
perspective
into a studio and chat. She said if anything her brother was understating just
Super strict mom
how strict their mother was.
Carol in studio
Carol: She used to follow me. She had a friend. We called them Sam Spade
Establishes painful
and the Fat Man and they would follow us. And then I’d go home and she’d
nature of her childhood;
come in and say where have you been. It was…really really hard. She didn’t
disbelieving mother
believe anything I ever said.
IG: And were you a pretty good, you know, kid, a good student in school?
Carol: I was. For a long time I thought I was terrible. My mother started
Mother calls her whore;
calling me a whore before I had any idea what the word was. And I didn’t
makes her doubt herself
look it up because I didn’t know how it was spelled. I couldn’t find it.
IG: Wow.
Carol: And so it occurred to me that if I had a family, a nonexistent family, I
could say I was going there.
Myron
Myron (on phone): Carol started working out the details. Because whenever
Carol’s creativity:
she would babysit my mother would have to have the phone number so she
builds a complex story
could check up on her. So the man in the family was an FBI agent working on
to cover tracks
a top secret project so he could not give out his phone number to anyone at
all. He also couldn’t let anyone but my sister, the babysitter, know just where
they lived. It would have been dangerous to do so.
IG: So um, so how, how far did this go? How complicated did the story of the
Ira wants to know how
McCreary’s get.
far things went
Myron: It got very complicated. They had two kids. Michael was three and
Laura was two.
IG: Um-hmm.
Myron: It was the age separation between my sister and myself but reversed.
IG: Um-hmm.
Myron: Sometimes the little boy in particular would try to test us and I’d let
Invents personalities for
him get away with it. But my sister wouldn’t. And they had all kinds of toys
the “kids”
but not too many toys. Umm. And they liked their parents very much. Loved
Indication that Carol
their parents. They were easy. They weren’t spoiled in any way.
was “recreating” her
own life with the story
IG: They sound like very special kids.
Myron: Oh yeah. They were great. (chuckles) They were like no kids I ever
Perfect children with
met really.
perfect lives (so unlike
her own)
Music.
Myron: I think in many ways they had the life my sister wished that we had.
Carol
Carol: I had them rent a cottage by the lake for the summer.
Notice the humor. The
chuckles. Ira and
IG: So the McCreary’s had a summer house.
Myron and Carol enjoy
the sad irony
Carol: Ahh yes. (chuckles)
IG: And did they require your services at the summer house?
Carol: Oh yes. Indeed. They knew their kids would enjoy it so much more if
we were there. And both my brother and I always liked little kids a lot. So my
Sounds real! Were truly
mother would accept this quite readily. That they wanted both of us out at the
happy.
lake. (Laughs). It was wonderful. We had such a good summer. I mean it was
glorious.
IG: Like what would you do?
Ira curious about
exactly what they
Carol: Well, sometimes if we knew someone out there, sometimes kids we
would actually do
knew would have cottage, kids would get together and chip in, or their
parents would have a cottage. Sometimes we’d just sleep on the beach, which
was great. I loved that. I loved sleeping on the beach.
Loved just being away
IG: I have to say that every time you talk about the freedom that you got your
Ira notices the joy in
voice becomes completely different. (Carol laughs) It’s like you can still taste
Carol’s voice
it.
Carol: I still remember what that was like. It offered freedom that was just so
wonderful to me.
Music.
Freedom!
Myron
Myron: (on phone) We really got all of this from our mother, this notion of
New development:
fantasy people. Our mother had, from the time we were young kids, younger
Myron points out
than ten, our mother had three people that she went to see, none of whom
mother’s OWN
existed. And we always knew they didn’t exist.
fantasies: parallels the
children’s
IG: Really?
Ira intrigued
Myron: Yeah.
IG: Who were they?
Myron: One was a lawyer and she wouldn’t say what she was doing there, but
Mother’s two specific
she dropped little hints and what we were supposed to believe was that was
“characters,” each of
making arrangements to put us in an orphanage. The second person she saw
which was AGAINST
was a psychiatrist. Umm. Which she pronounced psycholotrist. Interesting.
the children
And she went there because he would tell her that we were driving her crazy.
IG: I see.
Myron: And the third person was a doctor who told her she was going to die.
Always about building
(Music.) And in fact we had no idea where in fact she went but she was never
fear and guilt in her
gone long enough to see anyone at all.
children
IG: So in other words she would literally this wasn’t something she would
Ira confirms that the
just say to you, Well, I’ve been to a psychologist and he tells me that you
mother would actually
guys are driving me crazy (chuckles), she would actually leave the house…
leave the house
Myron: Yeah.
IG: …and go to her appointment?
Myron: Yeah. She’d say (chuckles) she’d say…she’d go for the door…and
Sad humor in her
we’d say where you going ma since it was so unusual for her to go out except
craziness; messing with
to work and she’d say “Wouldn’t you like to know?” (chuckles). Oh. OK. Is it
the children’s minds
your doctor? As we got older. And she’d say “Maybe.” And so that was her
game.
IG: In retrospect where do you think she was going?
Ira looks for
“retrospect”
Myron: I have no idea. I think she walked around the block a couple of times.
IG: So at some point your mother have wanted to meet them right?
Myron: No. She was…shy wasn’t the word for her, but she didn’t like
The mother never
knowing people…at all. She didn’t know the people next door. She didn’t
wanted to meet
want to know them. So she was really deliberately isolated. But the
McReary’s; but was
McReary’s were far and away the favorite topic of conversation. My mother
interested; did she
would ask questions about them and Carol would give her far more
know but not want to
information about them than she asked for.
know?
IG: Say more about what you remember she would tell them.
Myron: Well, she…one was that Mrs. McReary was very intelligent and
McReary was Carol’s
lovely and very kind. She was my sister’s fantasy of a mother.
fantasy mother
IG: Yeah.
Myron: And she was my fantasy of an older woman who had fallen in love
Myron’s fantasy too
with me and with any luck at all seduce me.
IG: Wait. So you’d talk about it with your mom too?
They’d play out the
Myron: Yeah. My sister started that. I was a little uncomfortable about it. My
story with the mother
sister said, “I think he’s got a crush on her.” And I would almost blush
uncomfortably because I did.
IG: And then your mom would questions like…And what color hair did she
have?
Myron: (chuckles) No she didn’t. She never asked questions like that.
IG: So what would she ask?
Myron: She’d say, “Well, I hope you act right over there. What do they think
Their mother was
of you?” And then the question that to this day she asks is “What do they
interested in how they
think of your mother?” And Carol would say, give the right answer, which
behaved
was “They think you’re wonderful.” (Music) It was a way of having a
conversation with her.
Ironically, only way to
IG: And a kind of in-depth conversation with her.
have a “real”
conversation
Myron: That’s right. She liked to hear about fancy people. She imagined
somehow that maybe it would all rub off on Carol.
IG: That they’d be a good influence somehow.
Myron: They’d be a good influence and that there might even be some money
Carol’s explanation for
in it. Which Carol also handled because she wasn’t getting any money from
the money
babysitting. She said that Mr. McReary was taking all the money and putting
it into stocks and bonds.
IG: Wait. Wait. Hold just a minute. Just back up.
Ira amazed
Myron: Yeah. Carol knew she was going to ask that. She anticipated it. Carol
said…before it could even come up…Carol said Mr. McReary isn’t going to
pay me. He’s going to put all my babysitting money into stocks and bonds.
Myron gives some
My mother didn’t know anything about stocks and bonds. Neither did we. But
background on the
my mother knew that that’s what rich people did. And it was over on the
mother’s sense of rich
other side of town…the rich side of town. And my mother didn’t know
people, wealth, the
anything about that neighborhood. She was the oldest of seven
divide
children…grew up in a very really poor family. My mother had one friend
who was middle class. Who she met when my father was still alive. And she
influenced my mother. And so did the people who my mother cleaned for.
(Music) At the end of the summer, the last weekend, that was a real change in
End of summer: Myron
the McReary time.
refers to point of
“change”
IG: What happened at the end of the summer?
Ira pushes on this
Myron: We really were exhausted from our summer…our real summer
weekends. And…
IG: The strenuous work of having fun with your friends?
Myron: (chuckles) Yeah. And those times when we had no cottage to go to
Anecdote about getting
and we’d sleep out on the beach. And uh we were going home and we headed
“caught” by the mother
up the back stairs. We always had to go the back way. And we headed up the
stairs to the second floor and we could tell before we turned the corner that
our mother was outside the door. Waiting for us. And we turned. And there
she was. And she looked ready to kill. She was absolutely furious. She said,
“Well, where have you two been?” And I thought, Oh God, she found out all
about the summer cottage. And stuff. And Carol said, You know where we
Mother called the
been ma, to the McReary’s. Our mother said, “O you have, have ya? Well,
“McReary’s”; she lies
yoursa couple a damn liars! I just got off the phone with Mrs. McReary, she
about their lie!
hasn’t seen ya in weeks.”
Carol
Carol: My brother and I agree. We didn’t breathe. We thought oh my god
They’re scared but
she’s talked to them. And then as quickly realized, Of course she didn’t talk
realize the absurdity!
to them.
Myron
Myron: Carol said, “Sorry ma, nice try. We just left the McReary’s ten
Carol calls mother’s
minutes ago.” We went in the house. My mother didn’t say anything to us.
bluff!
We didn’t say anything for the rest of the afternoon. And after that we
stopped talking about the McReary’s.
IG: Did she often claim that she’d run into the McReary’s?
Carol
Carol: Yes. That she’d talk to her. That she hadn’t seen me. She did it so
often. She believed this. It was amazing that she never questioned these
things.
BIG LINE: Both Carol
and mother wanted it to
IG: Why do you think she didn’t question in it?
be true. The lie worked
for both women.
Carol: I think she wanted it to be true probably almost as much as I did.
IG: It’s interesting. When you invented them it’s as if you invented them in
Ira analyzes
terms that would reassure your mom.
Carol: Yeah, I probably did. I don’t think that… Well, you know it did. I’m
Carol considers and
sure that it did occur to me that I wanted a family that would please her.
agrees
IG: Is that because it would make her more likely to let you out or was there a
Ira questions WHY she
part of where you were always the kind of kid who needed to be reassuring
had to please her
her anyway?
mother
Carol: Oh, I had to constantly reassure her. Always. You know I mean it isn’t
BIG IDEA: Carol
something I talk easily about. But that she really never liked me. That was a
acknowledges her
problem.
mother didn’t like her
Switch to Myron
IG: Is your mom still alive?
Flashes forward
Myron
Myron: Yeah.
Mother very old now
IG: So how old is she now?
Myron: Ninety-four.
IG: And how old are you?
As are Carol and Myron
Myron: I’m going to be seventy in another ten days.
IG: So have you ever come clean with her on this?
BIG ?: Ira asks if they
ever told the mother
Myron: No. No never. Do you want me to make my mother look like a liar?
IG: (Laughs) Well, in a sense you already have. It’s just that she’s going to
know it.
Myron. (Laughs) Right. No. The thought never crossed my mind to do it.
Never told her
IG: Are you serious? It’s never crossed you mind?
Ira Pushes back
Myron: Never.
IG: Because she wouldn’t be able to laugh about it?
Thinks his mother
wouldn’t believe they
Myron: Not in any way. She might simply say that we were lying now. That
were lying
there were McCreary’s. That we were just saying that for some reason.
IG: Hmm. Does it make you sad that you can’t have the kind of relationship
Ira ?: Don’t you wish
with your mom where now that everyone’s an adult, where now you can
you could come clean?
come straight?
Pointless…
Myron: Um. No. My sister and I…I think because of going away to school
when I was so young… Let me back up a little bit, when I was nine I came
Myron’s anecdote:
home on a Saturday afternoon and my mother said, “I’m sorry you weren’t
Illustrates just how
here because Father Sager, an Episcopal priest, was here visiting and he
abusive and sick their
found a very nice orphanage for you.” And I said, But I’m not an orphan, ma.
mother really was
She said, “No, I know, I told Father Sager that, but he said, really you are,
because I have to work all the time, and, you go there, it will be a good place
Sent away to school
for you. You go there. I was close to…I was in my thirties before I
understood why I went away to school when I was ten. I didn’t have to. I
Called an orphan
could have screwed up the test. I could have gotten thrown out right away.
One of the things our mother did with us, umm, from the time we were very
Mother repeatedly told
young, I can’t remember before…but it was before I went to school. My
them she should have
mother used to say to us, “When your father died everybody told me to put
sent them to an
the two of youse in an orphanage and that was the biggest mistake in my life.
orphanage
So when the day came and I came home and she said Father Sager found an
orphanage for you, what I really did was say you’ve been threatening me with
So he went away to
this my whole life and now dammit I’m gonna go.
school to spite her
IG: Yeah.
Myron: And it felt safer.
Safer away from her
IG: Hmm.
Myron: I was scared as hell. I was one of two kids in the sixth grade. The
Anecdote about school:
other kid never showed up. I went to all classes alone for six weeks. And after
it was hard, but when
six weeks I went home. And I was…it was late October, already dark in
he came home he felt
Buffalo, around suppertime and I was walking down the street, and I loved
happy to have a home
my neighborhood. I knew everybody. I looked. And the lights were on. And I
thought it’s warm in there. These people… That’s Sonny Calucci’s house.
But mother holds him
They’re in there. And I have a house too. I go to school, but I have a house
at arms length and calls
too. And I’m almost there. And I walk in the door. And I started to hug my
him selfish
mother. And my mother put out her hand to hold me back and said, “Now, let
me ask you a question. When you were up there at that fancy school, you ever
BIG POINT: This
think about your mother, lying in bed, crying her eyes out every single night,
moment drove Myron
you ever think about that. Nah, you never think about anybody but yourself.
to never rely on her for
And I literally, from that moment on, have never asked my mother for
anything: THIS IS ONE
anything, never looked to her for anything.
RESPONSE TO HIS
CHILDHOOD
IG: How old were you then?
Ira asks for an age
Myron: I was ten.
Myron only ten years
old when his mother
hurt him like this
Carol
Carol: Through the years I have truly envied him that he’s been able to do
WE SWITCH TO
that. I haven’t been able to just take her out of my life completely.
CAROL’S ULTIMATE
RESPONSE TO HER
IG: How often do you see her?
CHILDHOOD: She
says she couldn’t
Carol: Do I see her?
disconnect from her
IG: Yeah.
Ira asks how often
Carol: I am now seeing her twice a week. I call her every night. It’s all..it’s all
Twice a week! Carol
something to do with me because she doesn’t know that I call her every night.
knows this is all about
her own needs
IG: Because she’s becoming senile?
Carol: Yes.
IG: Yeah.
Carol: Yes.
Ira wants to know what
she gets out of it.
IG: What do you think you’ve gotten by being the one caring for her?
Unlike Myron, WHY
does SHE see this
Carol: Umm. One time when I was thirty-five I lashed out at her in such a
abusive woman?
way, and told her how I felt about her, and she sat in a chair in a kitchen. And
she was crying. And I had never even seen her cry before. And when I finally
Carol’s POWERFUL
stopped talking she said, “I did the very best I could.” And I thought, Oh my
anecdote: I did lash out
God, she did. Her best was so bad. Her best was so empty that she couldn’t do
once, made mother cry,
any better. I decided then. It helps me a lot. I had a great Aunt I just adored.
realizes her mother’s
And her mother, my mother’s mother, who was wonderful, and my great
best was just terrible,
grandmother who I didn’t know but who adored my mother, my mother slept
BUT decides to stay
in bed with her, I thought, I’m going to do this for the people that loved her.
connected because
You know?
others once loved her.
IG: Yeah.
Carol: You know, all of the people that really, really loved this little girl. I’m
SO MUCH HERE!
going to do it for them.
Why we love, the
resilience of the heart,
IG: Hmm.
parental failures,
forgiveness of children,
End Carol.
Carol: Now that feels fine to me.
flawed nature of our
closest relationships
To Myron
IG: You know what you’re describing is, you and your sister going off and
Ira points out the
pretending to go off and babysit for these imaginary kids, but in fact you guys
IRONY, that THEY
had a babysitting job, and it was for your mom.
took care of, put up
with their mother
Myron: (Big Laugh) That’s right. My sister was the chief babysitter there
really. It’s true.
They BABYSAT her
IG: When you were kids did you ever see it that way? Oh, we’re taking care
Ira wants to know if
of mom. She thinks she’s taking care of us, but we’re taking care of her?
they saw it that way
then
Myron: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There was a kind of…of humoring her…of
placating her. And uh. When I was about ten, she gave me a first basemen’s
Final MYRON
glove, cause I was going to be major league ballplayer when I grew up. She
anecdote: Mother’s gift
said, “You tell people who gave you the glove? You tell them how much it
of baseball glove and
costs?” I didn’t. But I said, Yeah. “Did you tell them how long I had to work
“curse” of guilt
to buy that?” I said, Yeah. She said, “You did not.”
IG: Well, let’s set the record straight. Here on the radio. How long did your
Ira humorously gives
mother have to work to buy you the baseball glove?
Myron opportunity to
“right” an old wrong
Myron: She had to work a week.
IG: That’s a long time.
Myron: Absolutely. I thought about it since then. Have I ever given my kids a
Myron reflects now on
present that was worth a week’s wages? No, I haven’t.
his mother’s kind of
generosity
IG: Mr. Jones. What would have happened if there hadn’t been the
Ira asks a WHAT IF
McRearys?
about life without the
McRearys
Myron: Ahh. The McRearys seem absolutely inevitable. I never thought
about what would have happened if they hadn’t of been there.
Myron: McReary’s
IG: Wow.
inevitable part of them
Myron: They had to be there. I still think they would have to be (calculating)
Wonders about their
fifty-seven years old now. I’ve wondered where they’re living, how they’re
“lives” now
doing.
IG: Where do you picture them?
Myron: I…I picture them doing very well, and, um, kind of dull now.
Doing well, but dull!
IG: Really?
Myron: Yeah. I don’t picture them as very interesting.
IG: Hmm.
Myron: They’re more conservative than their parents. But nice. Pleasant.
Good people.
Good people.
IG: And where do you think they’re living?
End Myron.
Myron: I’m afraid I think they’re living in Florida.
IG: They are? Not too far from where y’all are?
Myron: (laughing) I may run into them in the store.
Last word from Myron
imagines them running
Ends.
into each other at store.
IG: Myron Jones lives in Florida. In the years since we first broadcast this
We are left with a sense
story, his sister Carol moved to California. There’s no way, they both said,
of the pliable nature of
that their mother would ever hear this radio story, and she never did. She
reality; that our
died, at the age of 95, in 2002.
relationships with
imaginary people can
One last Mary Poppins rendition.
be realer than our real
ones; that we do what
we have to do to
survive our tougher
relationships; that our
parents can really screw
us up, and we can still
love them anyway, or
not; that it’s not easy to
take care of someone,
and that’s never quite
clear who is taking care
of whom.