Robert “Gentle Ben” Williams
6/8/12
Jackson, MS
Interviewed by David Rae Morris
Transcript
BW: My name is Robert J Williams Jr., I’m from Yazoo City, Mississippi.
DRM: Why did you want to go the University of Mississippi?
BW: It was a good opportunity for me, you know, to go to Ole Miss. Any time
there was a chance to go, you know the coaches really recruited me hard back in
those days, you know. And we decided, my grandmother really wanted me to go to
Ole Miss…..
DRM: Were you recruited by other schools? What other schools tried to recruit you?
BW: Kansas State, Mississippi State. You know, after I made my decision to go to Ole
Miss, it was kind of late in the game.
DRM: What influenced your decision to go to Ole Miss?
BW: What influenced me and my decision to go to Ole Miss? Uh, I wanted to go to a
university, a major university, I really wanted to go there. Where I really made up
my mind what I wanted to do, you know, I had a lot of opportunities at that time.
DRM: What did the university represent to you in you mind when you were
deciding where to go to school?
BW:
What did it represent? Opportunity to get a good education, you know. At
that time, you know, coming from the Catholic schools, you know, they really
stressed getting a good education, you know.
DRM: You arrived on campus 10 years after Meredith. What was the racial climate
like?
BW: Well when I went to Ole Miss, you know, I never did have any racial
problems, you know, I was just, I was a big kid, you know, so I really didn’t have that
many racial problems, you know. You know, all my teammates were, you know,
white, you know all of them were you know, we got along all good. I see a lot of them
today, talk to a lot of them today. A lot of them have sent me regards, regarding my
stroke, too, my sickness that I have. They’ve been real sensitive to that.
DRM: You weren’t the first black athlete at Ole Miss, but you were the first black
player on the football team. What was that like?
BW: Uh it was great, man, I mean I didn’t have no problems, you know, I didn’t have
no problems, you know. They took me as an athlete you know, I got into trouble just
like all the kids then any young men would be in. Had a lot of problems, became
lonely, they always kept me straight, you know.
DRM: what kind of trouble did you get into?
BW: Oh, man you know, had to go to school, you know, you know, had to get my
lessons, had to do my work and stuff like that, otherwise you know Coach Connelly,
coach Alford would have me run up and down the stadium a bunch of times, you
know. That was my punishment, you know…..
DRM: What position did you play?
BW: I was a defensive lineman.
DRM: Did you do that in high school, too?
BW: Mmmm
DRM: What did it feel like the first time you came into the stadium in Oxford?
BW: I was, you know, lot of people, I had never been to a stadium that size before,
when I first went there., you know. Back in them days, you know, it was the first
time going to be, have people, you know cheering for you, you know, there was a lot
of folks there, you know, probably had 40-50,000 there I would imagine at that time.
DRM: Did anyone make a big deal out of you being the first black player?
BW No, no, they wanted me to compete. They wanted me to suc--everybody really
suggested really they wanted have me succeed in what we were doing.
DRM: How were you perceived by your teammates?
BW: They all adjusted to me fine, you know. Because I was a big kid, you know,
they hadn’t seen a big athlete at that time. Most of the kids weren’t as big as I was,
you know, you know, you know, they’re all my friends today, you know. Like I say,
you know, uh, uh you know, like Butchy, like Oak, like James Reed, you know, I’ve
been sick, all of them call me. Since I’ve been sick, I have friends send me telegrams
from Texas, from all over the country, wishing me well and stuff like that. So I didn’t
see no racism problems with that. It was a pleasant place. I never had any problems
with it. I was young and I was enthused by having the opportunity to be there.
DRM: Golden era for Ole Miss?
BW: I think so.
DRM: Larry’s description.
BW: Yeah, Ole Miss was a pleasant place I never had any problems with it. You
know, IO mean I was young I was enthused by having the opportunity to be there
DRM: Talk about being elected Colonel Rebel.
BW: It’s like one of the highest honors you probably could have. As being a Ole
Miss student athlete, you know, and student at Ole Miss you know, one of the
highest elective offices. I was really proud of it. My fellow students felt like I was
good enough to represent the Colonel for them. You know.
BW: It’s elective, it’s elective office…Well I had to get elected, you know. It was a
process that you had to go thru, you know. We had Miss Ole Miss over here recently.
She’s from Atlanta. She came out.
DRM: What did it mean to you to be Col Rebel?
BW: What’d it mean to me? It was pretty, I thought it was a pretty good honor
myself. You know, you know, coming from Ole Miss with Ole Miss tattered history
that it has had, you know, been tattered, you know. For, for, for me to have the
opportunity to be the Col. Rebel, you know. And they still, they love me like that you
know, I’ll always be that.
DRM: Did you have any responsibilities as Colonel Rebel? Did you have to go to
banquets or…
BW: It was just a great honor man that, you know, because like I said it was an
elective office. You know and I mean they voted for it, you know. I don’t remember
what the score was you know, what the head count was on it, really don’t know,
you’d have to go back and ask them to research it. You know. ….
DRM: The University has essentially done away with Colonel Rebel. What are your
thoughts on that?
BW: I’m basically against it myself. I wished they’d just leave it like it is. You know,
you know, they, you know, probably stepping over my line, probably gonna made
some people mad ‘cause I been on TV you know, supporting Col. Rebel recently. You
know, supporting the Colonel Rebel. I want to be the Colonel, you know. Why do
they want to change history? You know, it’s a part of history, you know, it’s a
moniker, you know. Everything is so politically sensitive today.
DRM: What about the flag? What are your thoughts on the confederate flag and the
various…
BW: It’s our state flag, you know. I mean if you can’t live with it you know, get out of
Mississippi go find someplace else to live, in my opinion.
DRM: But you’re not offended by the confederate flag?
BW: I’m not offended one way or the other.
DRM: You can understand how some people are.
BW: Yeah. Yeah. I understand that, you know. I mean, I’ve got a big old magnolia tree
right here in my front yard. I was just looking at it the other day. I said, that’s the
state flower, really.
DRM: When you went to Buffalo, how did your teammates react to this big kid from
Mississippi? What did they say when they found out you were from Mississippi?
BW: No more than they say today when I go to visit my friends and I meet people
from the south. No difference, you know. My friends, my teammates really didn’t
have an opinion. You know, we had some good teammates back in those days. They
didn’t have no racial issues. Most of them was beyond that.
DRM: What was the first you heard of James Meredith?
BW: I heard about him throughout history. He’s a good fellow. I know him. I’ve
talked to him before. Like I say, you’ve got to be able to decipher him. You; don’t just
have a conversation with him. He’s on another level, he’s way above me. He’s on a
whole ‘nother lever. He’s a good fellow though. I see him all the time at the grocery
store.
DRM: How has Mississippi evolved in the 50 years since James Meredith went to Ole
Miss?
BW: I think it’s come a long ways. You know. I think It’s evolved--I like to think you
know the things that determine Colonel Rebel has helped the evolution part of, of,
of, of Ole Miss. You know, Ole Miss really has evolved a long way. You know. Cause
fortunately I’ve been through the whole, whole thing, you know. The last 20-30
years, you know, you know, the thing is you know, if you want to be a part of Ole
Miss you become part active you know. Anybody I would tell become active in the
university before you set up and criticize it . If you haven’t been in the battle, you
don’t know nothing about the battle. This has been a lifelong battle, you know. Ole
Miss has turned into a good university. It helped a lot of students, including me.
DRM: Do you feel like you’re part of the lineage that James Meredith started?
BW: Yeah. Yeah.
DRM: Do they mention, do they same James Meredith and then they say Ben
Williams.
BW: No, no. I don’t really go in the same breath with James Meredith. Don’t put me
in the same breath with him. He’s a legend more than I am. You know, more than I
am. James Meredith has a, you know, he did a lot more. If I remember, part of his
history was that he might have took a bullet during that time. He paid the ultimate
price, I would say. You know, he did a lot of things. More than I will ever do.
DRM: Do you think he’s a hero?
BW: Yeah. In his own right, yes sir. He’s a good man. I have no problem with James
Meredith. You know, what he did was, he helped us heal a very sensitive time in
history. He came and most people would not understand unless you were there.
James Meredith is a good man, you know, I have no problem with him. I see him all
the time, you know. They built him a statue up there at Ole Miss, you know. I thought
that was pretty honorable.
DRM: Do you feel like he blazed the trail for folks like you in terms of opportunity?
BW: I believe I was going to blaze my own trail. I believe that, you know. I’m a
trailblazer myself. I’ve always tried to be a little different than most people would
think I would be.
DRM: Do you think you could have blazed your trail if he had not blazed his trail.
BW: No. My trail might not have been as bright as his. I could never have done what
James has done. You know, I like him, you know, he’s a good man. If you can ever
understand it, if you can get him to sit down for a while and understand his jibberjabber that he be talking about all the time. You know, ‘cause he’ll go way out here
on you. He’ll be way out here in left field, you got to follow him. I like James. James a
good man, you know. He’s just a good man. I have no problem with him.
DRM: What do you think the state of race relations is now in Mississippi?
BW: It’s been tattered. It’s been beat up a lot, been beat up a lot. Race relations, I
don’t think we have any issues as it was in those years, you know. It is what it is. You
live, whether you get out of Mississippi and go somewhere and find you someplace
else to live.
DRM: So we’re not there yet—where we need to be in terms of race relations?
BW: Well, other people would think not. I’m sure a lot of people would think not. I
don’t know what else we could do. I don’t know what else we could do. James did a
lot. A lot of other people were, came along at a time that… You could look at Coolidge
Ball, for instance. He came along at a very sensitive time in race relations at Ole Miss.
He was a great person in my opinion of what he did. Cool was, he was my mentor.
DRM: He was on the basketball team?
BW: That’s right.
DRM: Was he the first black athlete at Ole Miss?
BW: That’s right.
DRM: When did he come? When was he there?
BW: I think it was in 1970. I’m thinking that.
DRM: So are you an optimist?
BW: Yes, sir. Very optimistic.
DRM: So you have hope for the future?
BW: Yes, sir.
DRM: What is your hope for the future?
BW: That any student that wants to go to Ole Miss would have that opportunity,
whether he’s black or white. You know, as long as they want an opportunity to
extend their education at a fine university, I would love to be like that. I got a
scholarship from there. Okay? A white kid asked me, “You know, I’d like to have the
Ben Williams scholarship.” Apparently it’s only for black kids. I thought it was awful
‘cause it didn’t make no difference to me if he was black or white. You know, he said
I’d like to have that scholarship. That’s what the kid told me one time. I was really
hurt about that.