2012-10-03-Military Transition
Seminars@Hadley
Transitioning from the Military to Society
Presented by
Urban Miyares
Moderated by
Larry Muffet
October 3, 2012
Larry Muffet
Welcome to Seminars at Hadley. My name is Larry
Muffet. I’m a member of Hadley’s seminars team and
I also work in curricular affairs. Today’s seminar topic
is transitioning from the military back to civilian
society. Your presenter is a familiar one, Urban
Miyares. Urban is a nationally renowned speaker,
entrepreneur, sportsman and veterans’ advocate.
Urban has done many seminars at Hadley and has a
major role in Veterans Initiative and in our Forsyth
Center for Entrepreneurship. If my bosses knew how
much fun I had doing these seminars with Urban
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they’d probably cut my salary a little bit. Today Urban
is going to discuss the challenges of transitioning from
the armed forces back into civilian life. Now let me
welcome, Urban and I’m going to turn the microphone
over to him.
Urban Miyares
Hello, Larry. It’s great to be with you again, with all of
you out there in Hadley’s Land. We’re going to have a
most interesting topic today that I think will surprise
many and others will just say “Yep, you’re right.” Are
you ready to get going, Larry?
Larry Muffet
We are. Let’s do it.
Urban Miyares
Okay, we’re talking about transitioning out of the
military. You’ve got to realize when you’re in the
military we’re all there together from different
backgrounds. We have different personalities and
culture. It’s a blend of America, all ethnicities and
genders. It really is a melting pot of sorts that the
military is. It has always been. When I went in in 1968
I was drafted so I really had no choice. I got thrown
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into this melting pot. The melting pot is one that not
only affects us that go into the military but our loved
ones. Whether they’re our parents, spouses,
girlfriends, boyfriends, who are staying home while
we’re in the military. So let’s always keep them in
mind as we talk about transitioning out of the military.
Now regardless of what branch of service you’re in
even whether you’re in the National Guard or reserve,
there is a transitioning phase that you will experience.
Regardless if you’re in for a short period of time such
as I was. I got medevaced out of the Vietnam within
two years of my first being drafted or you are in for
ten, 20, 30 or more years, there is a tremendous
transitioning phase. And it depends on, of course,
how long you’ve been in the military will reflect on
how the transitioning may change. So let’s tell you a
little bit about the military right now and hopefully you
can relate and hopefully it, across the board, covers
all of you. As I eventually became a drill sergeant
where I trained troops just before they went to
Vietnam in [Fort Polk], Louisiana, and advanced
infantry training there, I’ll give you a little perspective
of a drill sergeant.
Now, I was army. Regardless if you’re marines, air
force, navy, coast guard or one of the National Guard,
reserve outfits, the primary role of a drill sergeant was
to break you down in boot camp, basic training.
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Whatever you brought to the military with you, we had
to break it down to its smallest denominator because
we couldn’t build good troops until they’ve been
trained or developed or molded as the military wanted
the molded. You just can’t have a person come in with
all of these different characters and personalities all
coming from different areas of the country and then
develop something without them forming as a team.
And a team has to function all for one, one for all type
of attitude. You can have a dysfunctional family or you
can have a team. Our goal was to break everybody
done so they followed orders, did exactly what we
said as drill sergeants and would push them, we’d be
able to push them beyond what they thought would be
even possible.
Let’s reflect back to our boot camp days. Remember
waking up each morning, what did we do? We’d get
out there and did that march or one mile or two mile
or three mile run or five mile. We all had different
stories depending on what branch of service we were
in. And of course when we were in the military. When
I got in my dad said “the army’s not the way it used to
be. We really had it rough then.” Well, I’m saying that
now to the young troops. We really had it rough
during the Vietnam era. You’re going to say that to the
next generation of troops if you’re a recent military
inductee or recently out of the military. So, you started
each morning there and then we had a physical
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routine and constantly pushing us and then classes
and training. Of course the undertone “This is going to
save your life one day.” We really didn’t believe it.
Some of us would abide by that break down. I
remember guys in my outfit crying and eventually they
turned out to be wonderful soldiers. But that’s the
whole purpose of the drill sergeant is to break you
down so that we have something to start from scratch.
Don’t bring any of your hang-ups with you, your
backpack or anything like that to boot camp because
we’ll kick it out of you. That’s the role of a good boot
camp instructor on that. Regardless, I understand if
you’re male or female or what branch of the service
you’re in right now. So with that we mold you. Now, if
you’re a troublemaker in boot camp and we had
difficulty in breaking you down—anybody remember
what we used to do for you? We used to promote you.
It seemed like troublemakers, the first thing you do is
if they are not workable at all in listening to your
orders at all, give them some responsibility of others
and it’s amazing what responsibility will do. This is
basically the boot camp attitude.
From there on we go into, we find out what our MOS
is, our main location. In the military, I was 11 Bravo
which is infantry so I went on to advanced infantry
school but you may have gone on to another
vocational training of some sort or service in the
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military, what you would do in the service whether it
would be technology or being a cook or whatever it
may be. Many people have gone on to that. Now for
those who have gone on to ROTC and into the
military the transition is pretty much the same in that
area. Of course, infantry school, I’m sorry, officer
candidate school was another one where they too
broke you down but in a different way. I trained with
Officer candidate in at [Fort Polk], Louisiana or in the
shake and bake sergeant school of the 1960s where
we trained alongside those who were going to
candidate school, going to training one week less
than they did. It starts with that area.
Once you get into the military and you get your
vocation, you get into the military lifestyle and you all
know that chain of command. You never understand
why they’re doing it, that hurry up and wait attitude,
the saying that’s always there. It’s a continuing,
molding thing. Now one thing you have to realize with
the military, if you’re good, if you’re exceptionally
good in what you can do whether it be you’re a
sharpshooter, a marksmen or you’re a technology
expert, they’re not going to put you in that profession.
They’re going to shift you into another career unlike
the civilian world; the military’s attitude is you have no
one in authority that cannot be replaced because with
any military standing once you knock down the
leaders or the people who give all the orders, the
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people who everybody runs of their back, that team
falls apart. In the civilian world you have the boss, the
person and usually the company is put together by
this one individual or group of individuals and if the
boss dies or becomes disabled the company has a
tough time going on. But in the military a platoon
sergeant could get killed, company commander could
get disabled, injured or some reason can’t function or
a general could get killed or whatever happens to
them. But it keeps on going.
Jack Frost said, the poet, you can explain life in three
simple words. It goes on. That’s what the military is.
It’s a constantly moving, hopefully forward,
organizational flow that no matter what happens
internally it doesn’t stop the movement forward.
You’ve got to realize that’s there. That’s why we’re
always giving orders. We’re always changing
commands. We’re never at one court or one station
too long of a time. The period of time we’re there is
quite short. In today’s military two years, three years
generally is the go. I until you’re in there for quite a
long time, usually a career person, then you may stay
at one station for an extended period of time. But then
again, you will be replaced and they are already
thinking of who is going to replace you. So if you’re an
individual who is the military and you’re a self starter
or you think everything is wrong, you want to do it
your way. You won’t take orders from others; chances
are you won’t stay in the military too long.
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Now let’s talk about transitioning. You’re out of the
military. I’m going to talk in the perspective of
someone who is blinded, who came out from Vietnam
as a disabled vet. However I think a lot of you, even if
you are not military or you are not disabled, will get a
lot of perspective on what I am talking about right
now. When you get out of the military, regardless of
your rank and you’re thrown back into society there is
that transition phase. First of all, that routine you’ve
been brought up for the past year or years is
completely changed. Everything is chaotic. When you
wake up in the morning, looking at yourself today if
you’re out of the military, you wake up and do that
mile run before you have breakfast? The chances are,
no. You’ve already transitioned out of the military and
probably only keeping the military lifestyle, that part of
the military is the lifestyle you like the most. And the
other things, which is part of that whole transitioning
or that whole military concept, are things you don’t
keep with. You don’t stay with it that much longer
anymore. For those that do, god bless you. I still have
difficulty getting up and walking my seeing eye dog.
It’s that transitioning phase that’s really a gap. It’s a
big spread between what you used to do and what
you do now.
You remember all the stories about the past. There is
no question about it but where you are today is
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completely different. The transitioning thing changes.
There is no chain of command. My wife says yes,
there is. She’s the general in the house. but there is
no one to tell you what your day is set up for. When
you back into the workplace the vast majority of you
are starting from the bottom up again. You’re a private
again. You might have reached the rank of a sergeant
or an officer while in the military during your term and
now all of a sudden you’re starting at ground zero.
You’re at the bottom again, no one is saluting you. No
one cares about you in the past. They’re concerned
about you being a veteran and “thank you for your
service.” But what you accomplish in the military has
little to do. In many cases the transitioning, the MOS
or whatever your career or profession was in the
military needs to transition back into civilian life.
Veterans Administration is doing a wonderful job on
this, trying to identify job skills related to your military
service that you can carry forward into civilian life and
getting employment. But in many cases it’s not the
same thing.
In my case, infantry, there was very little I could do in
civilian life and especially without an education. My
transition was looking back it probably was the best
thing because I had no other option but to go into
business and that’s what I went into 45 years ago, self
employment. Today there’s a lot more options and
even though the workplace is hard or at least difficult
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to find employment today for everybody not only
veterans. The transitioning phase often has more to
do with you, your personality, your attitude from the
military and how you’re bringing it forward than it does
really on your ability to do a job function. In my
experience in counseling with literally thousands of
veterans over the years, it’s often a character or
personality.
Let’s reflect back a second just remember whenever
you’d gone on vacation, you were away from home
for a couple of weeks, maybe you went on a cruise
somewhere, maybe you went to Europe. Then you
came out and wanted to get back in, you just couldn’t
get back into it again. There is that delay. You might
even be typing a little bit differently when you get on
the keyboard because you’ve been away from your
computer for a few weeks. Your mental state is still
where your vacation was, not where you are today in
reality. That’s a big transitioning for you and that’s a
mild transitioning so just imagine what the military has
done and then transitioning out of that. Compare that
to a recent vacation trip. If you have other disabilities,
such as PTSD and all, this transition is even more
dramatic because you’re constantly remembering
about what happened while you were in the military,
whether you saw a combat or not. Not everybody
that’s in the military sees combat. A lot of people don’t
realize this but ten or 20% are actually involved in
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combat on a day-to-day basis. A vast majority of
those in the military are in a supportive type
professions. However, they hear about stories. They
have friends in the military who have personally
experienced or have not come home or are disabled
because of something and that could affect you also
psychologically, dramatically if they’re discovering
today.
So the transitioning back in is a thing where you
almost have to forget about it. Now with that I’m going
to take a break, see if there are any questions and
we’ll go into some of the steps on how I transitioned
and how I counsel other veterans who are now
transitioning.
Larry Muffet
One question I would throw out here to start is did you
find, making your transition, did you find the veterans
organizations like the VFW or the American Legion
helpful or something that you took advantage of?
What’s your feelings on those organizations?
Urban Miyares
Good question, Larry. People forget what military
service organizations, the primary role of what military
service organizations are. To answer your question
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better, in my case in 1968 when I returned home I did
not join any military service organizations. Vietnam
was not a popular war and as a matter of fact many of
us vets, as we talked about previously, maybe
wouldn’t say they were veterans. For years people
would say “Were you always blind?” “Yeah, I was
born blind.” We just used that so we didn’t bring up
the word “veteran.” Of course, as you know, I did
have one job when I came back from Vietnam and I
got fired because I was a Vietnam veteran. That was
the attitude of the country back then.
However, knowing what I know today I would have
joined the military groups right away then. Military
service organizations and not all of them are the
same, so you have those organizations which are
chartered by US Congress and there’s a limited
number. Blinded Veterans Association being one.
Paralyzed Veterans of America being another one.
Disabled Veteran Americans. VFW, American Legion,
the others go on are charted by Congress. Meaning if
you have a claim against the military or veterans
affairs for a disability, they can represent you in a
claims court where a lot of the other service
organizations are just nonprofits that are created
without the blessings of congress. I just want to
distinguish the two. However all the veterans groups
are good if it meets what your expectations are? And
the purpose of a veterans group is for veterans to talk
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to one another. I never told my wife what happened to
me in Vietnam until 1992 and I came home in 1968.
But if I was part of a veterans group I wouldn’t have to
keep this battlefield experience a secret all that time,
at least that guilt and shame that I felt back then
about it. It wasn’t until I started telling her and others
about it that I started being proud that I was a
Vietnam veteran.
The main purpose of a military service organization is
to meet other vets to help you decompress in a way,
to help you share stories, to find out you’re not alone,
to know that “Hey, I thought I had it bad. I heard this
other guy and oh my god. I wonder if I was in the
same war as him.” You even start realizing you’re just
one of many, many other stories of veterans who
have all proudly served. Then of course the other
thing is you have to decide are you a taker or a giver
and this is part of the transitioning. I joined
organizations that I can be active with and give them
something back, participate with them. I’m just not
going to see what I can get out of it and if you join,
sign up as a life member if you can and help the
organization on their roles and all. But yes, service
organizations are a valuable psychological and
socialization tool. It’s also a way of regressing, I don’t
mean regressing in a negative way but regressing in a
positive way to that lifestyle you once had when you
were in the military. Because then all of a sudden the
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jargon words start coming out and remember this
acronym and that acronym again. You start talking
differently, shall I say, then you were at home with
your friends and in social life in the civilian world. It’s a
valuable tool.
I tease everybody that every January I have to put a
mortgage on my home to pay all of my veteran
organization memberships on that one. I’m probably a
member of half a dozen, ten or more. And for you
younger vets out there, join the organizations whether
the Iraq/Afghanistan veterans groups or one of the
established charter groups, you’re going to find value
out of it regardless of your medical condition or what
your beliefs are now. I strongly urge you to join as
many of the groups that you can afford or feel
comfortable with.
Larry Muffet
I’m going to ask Ellen and Alice if they have any
questions, if not I might have another one and then
we’ll transition back to Urban’s presentation. Ellen or
Alice, do either one of you have a question for Urban?
Alice
Yeah, I did, sir. When you came home in ’68 you
probably didn’t experience the hatred and hostility that
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was presented to our boys that came home from
Vietnam later, did you? Or at least I hope not.
Urban Miyares
Thank you, Alice. I did. I grew up in New York City
and I came back home to a wife that was waiting. She
had tremendous transition to go through. We got
married just before I went to Vietnam. It was a lady.
We’d known each other since we were 13 from a
neighborhood in Manhattan. We got married just
before I went to Vietnam. So I came home a totally
disabled veteran not the knight and shining armor that
she thought I would be. I remember I wore my uniform
once in New York City and I got spit on and was
called [Hodee] Murphy and all that sort of stuff. That
as the last time I ever wore my uniform. So yes, the
hatred was there and I was six months in the hospital
at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania and at that time they’d
turn on the TV set and you’d hear about all of the
hatred on the news. A lot of times when the news
came on we would shut the TV off. Yes, I did
experience it. It’s so rewarding to see what America is
doing for our veterans today. I get tears. I’ve been at
the airport when people have applauded. I feel like I’m
one of them and I feel like those of us who have come
back, whether we came back from Korea, the
forgotten war or Vietnam or conflicts in-between or
around that time were never recognized. I feel like
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they’re applauding for a service I did to this country
too.
Part of the phase I had to realize, it’s all proud of it.
Thank you, America for what you’re doing today for
our veterans.
Larry Muffet
I’m not sure I want to ask this question yet. Maybe I’ll
wait until the end. You had talked about coming back
and starting a business. Could you talk about, I’m
sure you’ve talked about other people that made a
different sort of transition and walked off an army
base, let’s say, and walked on to a college campus.
That’s really got to be a different sort of transition
because you go from one very structured
organization, very rigid to something with basically it
has no rigidity. That’s basically everyone is doing
what they think they ought to be doing. Any
comments on that sort of transition because a lot of
people do it with a GI bill and that sort of thing.
Urban Miyares
Yeah, Larry. In March, this past March I spoke in
Hawaii for the National Science Foundation on
transitioning from military into colleges for people in
the academic arena at Hawaiian Hilton Hotel. They
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don’t realize the transitioning that’s coming in right
now and how to handle it. First off, the estimate is the
number of veterans returning from recent wars, of all
the veterans returning as combat and noncombat, at
least one in five had PTSD. Of combat disabled vets,
some statics are showing 40 and 50% have PTSD.
The veterans coming back, for various reasons the
transition is a bigger shock and I think it has a lot to
do with today’s communications, emails and internet
going on. To tell a quick story, just recently with
Colonel Jay [Barvis] metal of honor winner, we were
talking about this.
I was telling the Colonel. I said “You know, Colonel,
when I take my platoon out in Vietnam we call up and
right away I want to know if there was mail call when
we got back there. If we had to go out on a night
ambush that night or an operation early the next day I
told them to hold mail call. I did not want the guys on
my platoon reading letters from home and then us
going right out immediately into a possible combat
experience. That’s how you get that in combat is
when you’re not paying attention. Your mind is not on
your duty. And I don’t know how your troops today are
doing it where you can get on Skype and 15 minutes
later you’re in a combat area or sending emails
instantly, instant messages. I don’t know how you do
it.”
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Believe me, I’ve talked with many, many troops who
have just come back, most of them were disabled.
The colonel and I had just gone over what a
differences the wars are. Of course we decided it’s
the same, war is war. There was other recently
injured veterans at this gathering, shall I say, that we
were having this conversation with. It was interesting.
But school right now is not prepared and nor are the
professors. I’m based out of San Diego State
University where I work on vocational rehabilitation
masters program as well as teach business courses
around the country, universities and colleges. The
classroom is not prepared yet for many of our
veterans. Tell professors right now “Don’t be
surprised if your veterans, especially combat veterans
are sitting all the way in the back of the classroom or
around the doorway. This is a common military
training tactic. You’ve got to look at everyone around
you, no one behind you and have an exit plan where
you can get out of there quickly, a backup plan.
Whether it’s getting out of their early to cut a class or
if something happens that you’re uncomfortable with.
And don’t be surprised if you get these veterans all of
a sudden getting up and walking around or walking
out and coming in. They’re not going to the bathroom.
They just have to get their mind clear.
The room, if it’s a low ceiling, as an example, that’s
compression. The atmosphere is not right. Your
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language, how fast you’re talking. They might look at
you and nod their head “yes” but they’re not listening
to you. Their mind is drifting into something else. It’s
the whole thing. Also, the veterans coming back and
it’s a symptom of post traumatic stress disorder,
PTSD, is you take on more than you can handle.
They’re signing up for full courses rather than
transitioning slowly. We are now starting to get a lot of
veterans who are dropping out of school who are
under the GI bill. Of course they say “I’ve just got to
take a semester off. I got to take a break.” Chances
are they won’t go back to school. At least not
immediately.
The only reason they went to school in the first place
was because of that GI bill money. They’re not yet
prepared for the classroom. The professors aren’t
ready for them. They may talk with them in a
language that’s not appropriate to them. “Don’t tell me
what to do. You’re not my drill sergeant.” Type of
attitude many veterans would have. It is awful difficult
in the classroom and college professors as well as
administrators, faculty need to understand these
things. The color of the classroom is an example, it
has a lot to do. What are the walls painted with? How
high are the ceilings? Is it an auditorium or is it a
small classroom? How crowded is the classroom?
You’re really pushing someone who is conditioned
and trained in the military lifestyle and especially if
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they’re in a combat. That’s an enhanced repeat
military lifestyle where you’re relying on the person
next to you for your life and you throw them into this
classroom and it doesn’t generate. They’re not ready
yet. They haven’t decompressed. They haven’t
transitioned well enough to jump in the classroom
environment right now.
It’s a weakness in an area in my opinion, Larry. It’s
already showing. We predicted this a couple of years
ago. If the GI bill ever was reinstated or those going
back to school working with veterans who are
students for many years, it’s just now extenuated
because of the GI bill and a number of veterans which
is a record number that are going to school and they
need to go to school. But how it’s being done by many
and by counselors advising them on what courses to
take is really, it’s shameful in a way and I think history
will prove me right on this one.
Larry Muffet
Again, I’ll open it up for just second here, see if any of
you in the audience have a question for Urban and if
not I’ll just go ahead and turn it back over to him and
let him carry on. Any questions from the group? All
right, hearing none I’m going to turn the microphone
back over to Urban.
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Urban Miyares
Okay, Larry, thank you. Let me tell you a little bit
about how my transition went and it was a force
transition in that really as we talked about in 1968
there were few if any options that were available to
me or that I even knew about not being a member of
any military service organization, not really counseling
anybody although I did go to VA Voc rehab after I got
fired from my first job. They told me that with my
educational level, a high school equivalency diploma,
I had to go to summer school to get a general diploma
to get out of high school. And the severity of my
disabilities given a life expectancy of, at best, 20
years—they only predicted that I would live, the
doctors at that time, 20 more years and that was 1968
when they said that. Voc rehab basically told me that
they didn’t feel it was worth their time to train me in
any trade because I was too disabled. That’s when I
started in business and I found self employment as an
option I had, as the only viable option whether you
consider it an accidental entrepreneur or not.
My first three businesses didn’t work. My fourth one
before I finally realized what it takes for someone with
catastrophic disabilities, the VA calls it catastrophic, to
make it in the sighted and able body world of
business. It was a rough transition and of course
during this whole transition thing, and I emphasize for
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anybody listening in right now that is in the transition
phase and having difficulty, you’re not alone with it.
Your loved ones are with you. They too have to
transition just as my wife had to transition with me not
knowing why I was acting bizarre, why I was different.
These are things that had to go. Now because I had
no resources I had constant self evaluation of myself.
What am I doing right? What’s wrong? The first thing I
had to do was forget communication. I had to forget
the way I spoke in the military, had to drop all of the
acronyms, all the jargon, the military jargon and just
completely forget about it, especially some of the
vocal language that was common place in the military
that was no appropriate in society I quickly
discovered.
I had to almost throw away my military association in
that when you talked with me or looked at me, I didn’t
look like I was a veteran to society. For me that
worked good. I still had my jungle boots. That’s the
only thing that came back with me; Again, I was
medevaced out of Vietnam but I kept them in the
closet and only put them on when I was doing
gardening work around the house or something of
that nature. I generally didn’t do that. I threw all of the
military stuff away. I had to do to that for my own
psychological society. I had to forget about it. When I
first came back from Vietnam, now mind you I had
only been away, away from my friends I grew up with
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my whole life in New York City, for less than two
years. I went back to see them and it’s as if my
maturity or experience was so much greater in years
than theirs was. Some of them had gotten married in
that two years. Some of them were still doing the
same stuff we did when we were 14, 15 and 16 years
of age but I felt like I was so much older than them.
It matured me more than I had ever realized and also
I realized you can never go back home. It’s never the
same when you go back. I’ve seen so many veterans,
I live in San Diego and they’re getting out of the
military out of San Diego which is one of the largest if
not the largest place for veterans getting out of the
military and they’re going to go back home to their
towns, going to move in with mom or the girlfriend that
they’ve loved since junior high school or whatever it
is, they’re going to get married. It’s not going to be the
same. Nothing is the same. Life goes on. You’re just
going to have to accept that now and that those that
you grew up you can feel as if you’re older. You’re
going to look in the mirror and you can see. You’ll say
“Do I have grey hairs and they don’t? What’s going on
here?” There’s a difference from the girls I dated to
the guys I grew up with, played football with, did rattail
with the towels in the shower with and all. Things
have changed. We were not the same and of course
Vietnam was different but I find it especially true
today, all the vets going back home to expect life to
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continue, it’s like it’s been on hold waiting for them to
jump back in and start moving again. It’s not going to
happen.
This is an awakening. It’s almost as if you lived in a
time capsule and jumped however long you’ve been
in the military, whether it’s two years, five years or 30
years you’ve jumped that far ahead, you’re back into
society again, into your community and things have
changed. People have died. People have gotten sick.
Businesses have closed. New businesses have
opened. The hamburger you once liked in your
favorite spot doesn’t taste the same. It’s that dramatic.
I found this especially true when I talk to the troops
now and they call me from their hometown and say
“Urban, you were right, damn it. Then I found out
while I was gone that girl I dated, she got married on
me.” Not a dear John letter but “Dear John, this is
what happened.” These are things you have to accept
in the transition. I did that and for me it was great
because I realized I could never go backwards.
Interestingly 50 years later, not 50 years it was 43
years later at my 50th junior high school reunion. 50
years junior high school, 7th, 8th, 9th grade reunion I
went back to New York for the reunion and most of
the kids I grew up with were there and you know
what? They still haven’t changed. I’m still older than
them.
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Those girls that I was in love with in those early years,
I’m so happy I didn’t marry them. It’s just different.
Everything has changed and I think the military
definitely advances you, not only in one year or more
years matures you but you have a different way of
thinking and to me it’s more analytical and better. I’m
so upset with so many veterans getting out and
having all of this mature experience and way of
thinking and they’re not using it right now. I really get
upset when I hear that “What can I do now?” and they
don’t look at themselves in the way that they should
and say “What can I do now with this new training and
experience?” We’re not talking about a skill trade or
vocation. I’m talking about personally, internally,
mentally, way of thinking, attitudes. It’s amazing how
much one will change even with the short military
involvement in that area.
For me it was good. I had to forget about the past and
start over with my new wife. I had issues with post
traumatic stress as many of you know. I thought about
suicide a couple of times. My wife got pregnant so I
figured I needed to live for a reason and then things
just started falling into place with business and being
able to control my future. The biggest thing I had to
change was my communication. How I looked, how
I’d stand, I didn’t always have to have my heels
together when I stood up, things like that. I didn’t have
to always say “Yes, sir. No, ma’am.” I do sometimes
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out of respect but I don’t in any way, shape look or
act like , I try not to at least, like I’m in the military
accept when I’m around military buddies at a military
service organization and then I’ll curse with the best
of them if need be. It’s just one of those things. That
was the first transition phase that I had. I went from
one lifestyle into a new lifestyle and did the best I
could with this new lifestyle not carrying any of the
baggage over with me.
How many veterans do you know that are maybe
years out of the military and they’re still wearing their
military t-shirt or something related to the military in
public. They talk the language of a military person.
They act the character, the mentality is that of a
military person and they’re always thinking in military
terms. Putting the guys together, it’s their guys, that
type thing. Instead of we’re all going to do this
together. It’s a whole attitude thing and to me that’s
the biggest issue with the high unemployment rate
amongst veterans. It’s interesting the unemployment
rate amongst veterans they’re not now saying is 11,
12% whatever the percentage is currently. That
doesn’t include disabled vets. Vets like me and our
unemployment rate, I know in the blind community,
blinded veterans has to be 80% or more, has to be. If
the general blind population they say only 1/3 of us
are employed, in other words 70 or more percent of
us are unemployed. For those blinded veterans that
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number has to be greater of the unemployed in that
arena. It’s mainly due to our attitudes and character.
Not due to our blindness and other disabilities that we
have.
In my experience, not opinion, experience and in
working with many and hopefully here at Hadley we
can get many of these blinded veterans through the
blinded veterans initiative as well as others who have
sight loss or are legally blind to look at the programs
and try to expand, go beyond living blind, as an
example. I like to call it living blind. They train us how
to be blind and living blind. We’ve got to go beyond
that. We live in a sighted world. We’re not in the
military anymore. If we were in the military we’d live
the military.
Now we’re in society, we’ve got to live society and the
society we’re in right sound is a society able bodied
world. Although a majority of people do have hidden
disabilities for whatever the reason. The transitioning
phase is good. Take the military life had to learn even
though mine was short, is it use it to your advantage
when need be but don’t carry it with you as your
calling card. Unless it’s appropriate. If I’m going to go
see someone that’s in the military I’ll try to get out of
them in communications that they were in the military
where I can just jump in and say “I was in the military
too.” And go into that communication of military
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related communication whereas I don’t just walk in
and say “Hey, I understand you were an officer in the
Navy. I was a sergeant in the army.” That’s pushing.
Marketing is push/pull. I don’t like to push myself on
anybody. I would rather pull. Get the information out
of them, pull it out of them and then jump into the
conversation if I can compliment it not supersede it.
I was a sergeant. So if I’m talking to a general, I’d say
“Yeah, I was just a sergeant” type of thing and of
course as a general if they have communication,
they’ll say “You weren’t just a sergeant. You were the
workers.” I say “Yeah, I guess we were.” I compliment
the conversation. I don’t try to “I was a sergeant. I did
this. I did that.” I don’t do that in the communication
when I’m talking about military. I often, with military, I
like to listen more than I like to talk unless questions
are asked specifically of me or there is a reason I’m
talking, such as in a public speech when I’m talking
for the veterans administration or military service
organization. Then of course I’ll bring up my military
background. The communications s critical. Next is
your relationship with your spouse and then children
you have or plan to have. Please, please, please
don’t make that the barracks. You’re not the drill
sergeant in that family. When you’re giving your kids
the order and they will do this and that. I find that
amazing that we want our kids to be independent and
as they’re growing up we tell them what they can and
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can’t do. We set the guidelines, the rules. We don’t
give them any freedom. We bring that military to us.
I’ve see that so much by our friends and have seen
their children grow and mature in what professions
there in and some of them have done very well. Don’t
get me wrong. It’s not negative but I’ve also seen the
other way where children have, shall I say, taken the
wrong path in life. And they say “Yeah, my dad or my
mom—always had this order to follow or that order to
follow. I just couldn’t take it anymore.” Again, they
haven’t been drafted by you. You have created them
and sometimes it’s not best to create them in your
own image because they’ll never turn out as you want
them anyway. So give them the love and respect that
they deserve and you’ll get it back towards you. This
is one of the things I did and maybe I was too
passive. When our son was born I got to the point
where I eased up on my drill sergeant role as he grew
older and let mom take over more.
Today we have a loving son. I just had a talk with my
son about our four grandchildren when we were at a
dinner a few weeks ago. And he started, went off on
our oldest granddaughter and I said ‘Tone down.” He
was acting like a drill sergeant. So maybe accidentally
I created in my own image but I can’t remember
giving orders like that and demands. I said “Tone
down. This is not the military.” He said “Dad, you don’t
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understand what she did. She just aggravates—“ I
said “Maybe you’ve got to show her another side of
you and let’s see what happens.” This is part of the
transition. We tend to get upset with society more
than we do in the military. When people do stupid
things we get upset, we blow out of proportion rather
than just accept. Just don’t do the same mistake twice
is what I’ve learned, especially with employees. I’ll put
up with one mistake even though it cost me money
but you do the same thing twice I’m sorry, you’re
going to see the HR person. You’re not going to be
with this company much longer unless you change
immediately.
These are some of the transitioning things. We have
to change everything about us when we come out of
the military. You’re going to have to look in the mirror
and reflect on your own personality, lifestyle how you
look, how you dress, how you talk. We’ve talked
about this at Hadley before, about the presentation
that you give. It starts out with what other people see
and then it comes out what other people hear. How
you talk and what you say; sometimes not saying
anything is more powerful than saying something.
These are things—how you stand, your posture, your
facial expressions. These are all so critical with that.
One of the things I’ve found especially with the
combat savvy veterans who have realized this, they
always have a smile on their face. Colonel [Vargas]
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as I said earlier a metal of honor winner. If you walked
by him, if you read the story it’s not the same guy.
Two different personalities; he’s like that and people
look at me and they find it hard to believe that I was a
combat veteran. I lead a platoon. You’ll see that
across the board from veterans returning who may or
may not have PTSD. They’ve learned how to use the
PTSD positively and it’s changed or transformed their
whole lifestyle.
“Yes, I was in the military it was a great experience.”
That “Now what do you want to do today” attitude and
“Life is great.” It’s that transition. And you’ll find those
veterans who have difficulty in transitioning, have that
sourpuss, that frown on your face, the wrinkle in their
brow that nothing is going right for them, they wish
they were back in the military. It’s a dramatic change
that has to be done. It may even require you to go into
a completely different profession, occupation or trade
then what you thought you’d like or thought you would
do best in or train best in. Now for those that are
blind, this is where the opportunity comes in where
that the whole world is open to you. Of course
Hadley’s entrepreneur program—Forsyth Center of
Entrepreneurship is great tool to find out if starting
your own business or being self employed is a viable
option to earn a few extra bucks or to do a whole new
lifespan. I’ve taken up the business or
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entrepreneurship lifestyle. That’s my lifestyle and
what I’m truly enjoying. Any questions, Larry?
Larry Muffet
Well here is the question that I had earlier that I’ve
been kind of holding. If you had to put your finger on
the single most difficult issue, either for you yourself
or when you talked to other veterans going through
the same sort of thing, what is the single most difficult
thing to deal with? Is it a blindness? Is it the PTSD? Is
it just the general sort of transition we talked about,
making changes from a very regimented organization
to a less regimented one? If you had to put your finger
on one thing what would it be?
Urban Miyares
That’s a tough one, Larry. One item, each has its own
challenges and rewards. Or if they are a challenge it’s
up to you to make them a reward. I think when you’re
mentally not feeling well, an example, I have severe
chronic pain. I have spinal cord injury. They put me on
medications that I was getting forgetful, like I was
sleepy all the time. I wasn’t able to do—being blind I
wasn’t able to even handle things that I had trained
myself to do being blind. Cutting a chicken, is an
example, with a bone in it. I was constantly dropping
the knife. I felt sloppy. So to me it’s psychological.
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PTSD is the worst because of the depressive side
and you know my Thursday at two o’clock, that’s
when I get depressed. That’s what I’ve learned to do.
I build up all of my depression for the week until
Thursday at two o’clock and then I decide how
depressed I am and generally it’s not that bad. At the
moment it feels like you’re in a dark hole and can’t get
out of it and no one cares.
That’s part of it. I think the most difficult thing was the
psychological. Blindness is definitely difficult. Would I
like my sight back? Well, in many cases, yes and in
some cases no. I’m often asked, with all of this
technology what happens if you got your sight back?
I said “If you look at my life my big question would be
what would people expect from me now if I got my
sight back?” I tend to be an A+ personality. I’m always
looking for that new challenge, that new experience,
new thrill. There are some things I won’t do. I won’t
jump out of planes. For all of you blind people that like
jumping out of planes, god bless you. Go do it for me,
will you? I won’t do that but I will do some strange and
bizarre things that some would say are life
threatening. But on the other hand I look at the
advantages or have created advantages in blindness.
One of my speeches, it’s a comedy I do about all of
the advantages of being blind and I enjoy that in a
way. There’s other ways I just hate being blind. There
is no question about it. But the single thing for me
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coming back from Vietnam was PTSD which no one
knew about. Back then they diagnosed you as bipolar
or manic depressive and put you on Lithium if you had
these symptoms of PTSD. I was already diagnosed
with battle fatigue while I was in the service before I
was medevaced out.
I would say PTSD and then chronic pain and then if
there was a category blindness would be third on the
list. However, it would be real close to first too. All
three of them really are in one package as far as I’m
concerned with that. Of course blindness creates
depression instinctively. Anybody who is blind and
hasn’t been depressed—first you get frustrated and
then you get depressed, in my experience. Everybody
I’ve talked to has had—and of course, we’ve talked
about depression at Seminars at Hadley and
depression really is one of the—everybody gets
depressed. It’s a mechanism, the body’s self defense
mechanism and there we have to all contend with.
Those who are transitioning right now, depression is
even more because you don’t know where to go,
where the outreach is. Take a course with Hadley.
Keep your mind moving. Keep active.
That’s one of the things. I always want people to look
at disabled veterans in transitioning. Give somebody
work. Give them something to do. Something where
they have some control, reward, satisfaction with the
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challenge involved. Too many veterans getting out
are so difficult in transitioning they wind up working for
a government organization such as the Department of
Defense and Veterans Administration, even Military
Service Organizations. They’re getting work. It’s good
but they’re not changing. They’re not transferring that
much. They’re not transitioning that much. They’re
going from the military into a quasi or semi military
organizational structure. So they’re still in the military.
They still have that chain of command. They still get
their orders. They have to be at their desk, or their
assignment, or something. They still have quotas or
whatever the military asked them to do. They’re pretty
much doing that again.
There’s nothing wrong with that. They’re staying
active. To me being active is more important than
getting out of the military lifestyle. Some of those
veterans are just doing some wonderful things for
other veterans as well as society in general. Again, I
want to emphasize that not everybody has the same
transitioning experiences. Some people can transition
from the military back to society and go great. There’s
many I know that have done that well. Generally
they’ve stepped in a business that maybe their
parents owned or they were partners with before. Or
they were able to get their job back that they had
before or the family support, which is so critical, is
there and ready for them in their new state. There
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always seems to be a little caveat with those who
transition well. And then those who transition by
themselves tend to isolate from family, friends and
everybody. The only friends they have are others who
have the transitioning problem. We all hang around
people who have the same issues we have. If you’re
at the poverty level generally most, if not all of your
friends are at the poverty level too.
If you’re a religious person generally all of your friends
are of your same denomination. We put ourselves in
these little circles of influence or contacts or
friendships intentionally. We all do. The things is
we’ve got to expand that. Not make that circle bigger
but add other circles to our life and again, I bring up
Hadley. If you’re transitioning take one of the courses
from Hadley. I’m taking a course on diabetes from
Hadley right now. I have diabetes. I’ve had it for 45
years and I came back from Vietnam with diabetes.
So I’m taking a course. You figure I know everything
there is to know about diabetes. Well, I’m looking for
that one little bit I could know a little bit better. Well,
actually I’m checking Hadley to see if they got it right.
No, that’s not the real reason. That’s an example.
Take something else “Well I haven’t got time to do
something.” Well, none of us have time so keep it that
way. And of course when you’re blind you even have
less time because it often takes us a little bit longer to
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do things that if we had sight you would do quicker.
But that’s part of it.
The thing with transitioning is transition into a new
lifestyle. Anybody who has gotten a divorce has gone
through transition. Anyone who has had someone pas
away on them, there is a transition phase. The phase
goes denial, then guilt whatever that psychological
flow is, we all go through that. But so do veterans
transitioning. But he veterans getting out of the
military go through the TAPs program- that training
assistance program or transitions assistance
program, whatever the acronym stands for—jump
right into school right away on a fulltime curriculum
through the GI bill. They have no time to decompress
and realize what they’re jumping into. This is where
they’re getting into trouble. I had the advantage in that
I was in the hospital for six months when I came back
from Vietnam. So there was a transitioning. Although I
was still in the military form and all I met with the
general public on a regular basis. I didn’t have orders
to follow other than clinical appointments. There was
no one I was in charge of or responsible for. I just had
to get healthy again. To me it was great. World War II
they came back on ships from being out at sea two
weeks or longer.
They had time to be prepared to be welcomed when
they arrived in the United States. Today, again,
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amazing—our troops today, they can be in the
battlefield in the morning and be in their hometown
literally that afternoon, literally. It’s like going to
another planet. It’s like watching Star Wars or
something where they go from planet to planet or see
aliens and you walk right into it. You’re out of sorts.
You really are.
Larry Muffet
Well, I’d love to continue this on but I know you have
another engagement so I’m going to unfortunately
have to start wrapping this up. I’m going to tell
everyone that this seminar, like all of our seminars,
will be archived on our site and available for your use
any time around the clock. Also each Hadley seminar
is not made available as a podcast which you can
download to your computer or mobile device. If
today’s seminar has got you thinking about this issue
or interested in hearing more, please check out the
veterans initiative page on the Hadley website, check
out the seminar archives and Hadley’s course list.
Urban and I thank you for your participation. Your
questions were outstanding and really added to the
value of this seminar.
We value your feedback. Please let us know what you
thought about today’s seminar and please give us
suggestions for future topics. There’s a couple of
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different ways you can do that. One way is by
dropping us an email to feedback@hadley.edu F-E-ED-B-A-C-K @hadley.edu. Another way to share is by
completing a short onscreen survey that I’m going to
post as we conclude today. You can go ahead and do
the survey and it will take you right on out of the
website. I’m going to head the microphone back to
Urban for just a couple final comments.
Urban Miyares.
The only comment I’d like to make is picture a person,
male or female, standing up or sitting down and on
their back they have a backpack and that backpack
says “military.” That’s their whole military lifestyle and
experience in that backpack. And then holding in one
hand they have an attaché case and in that attaché
case in new experience, new lifes, new hopes. You
decide which one of them you, transitioning or the
transitioning veteran want to carry with you. You want
to carry that backpack on your back all the time or you
want to leave the backpack at home or a military
service organization and walk around society with that
attaché case with new hopes, dreams, aspirations
and experiences. Thanks, Larry. A pleasure like
always.
Larry Muffet
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Certainly, Urban. I always appreciate it. I have such a
good time doing these with you. I look forward, we’ve
got a couple more of these coming up this week that
we certainly want people to take advantage of also. I
want to personally thank all of you for taking the time
to be a part of this today. Your questions and
comments added a lot to it. Thank you very much for
attending.
[End of Audio – 1:00:36]
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