Worldwide Services Coalition Mission to Geneva, March 2004
Notes of meetings
Meetings
A total of 18 meetings were held over the two days of the Mission, as follows.
Meeting/theme
Country/party representative
Insurance
Preparatory meeting of Financial Services Working Group Insurance
Task Force
Prep2. Preparatory
Preparatory meeting for full delegation
meeting
1.
Saudi Arabia
Mr Ahmed Al Shambary, Counsellor, Trade in services
2.
WTO services 
Amb Alejandro Jara (Chile), Chairman of WTO Council for
division
Trade in Services

Mr Rufus Yerxa, WTO Deputy Director General

Mr Hamid Mamdouh, WTO Director of Services Division
3.
Agriculture
Amb Tim Groser (New Zealand), WTO Chair of Committee on
Agriculture
4.
Domestic
Mr Johannes Bernabe (Philippines), outgoing Chairman of WTO
regulation
Working Party on Domestic Regulation
5.
Brazil
Mr Paulo Mesquita, Counsellor in charge of services
Press Press conference GSN press conference on the Geneva Mission, with eight reporters
attending.
Dinner Official dinner Dinner with WTO ambassadors and negotiators
6.
Egypt
Mr Amgad Abdelghaffar, First Secretary in charge of trade in services
7.
African
Amb Charles Ntwaagae, Botswana
countries
8.
India

Mr Radjiva Misra, Deputy Permanent Representative

Mr R Gopaln (from New Dehli)
9.
Thailand
Ms Kanitha Kungshawanich, Counsellor
10.
Vietnam
Amb Ngo Quang Xuan
11.
WTO services 
Amb Alejandro Jara (Chile), Chairman of WTO Council for
section
Trade in Services

Mr Hamid Mamdouh, WTO Director of Services Division
12.
China
Ms Zhang Liping, Councellor in charge of services
13.
GATS rules
Mr Santiago Urbina (Nicaragua), Outgoing Chair of WTO Working
Party on GATS Rules
Final
Post-conference Meeting of GSN Core Group on way ahead
Prep1.
22 March 2004
Preparatory meeting
The preparatory meeting was attended by the majority of the Mission delegates. It
was chaired by Pascal Kerneis, the host organiser from ESF.
The main discussion centred around the need for a common message to be delivered
to the WTO negotiators. Some of the issues identified included:
- Obtaining commercially meaningful market access commitments from the
negotiations
- Need to address Mode 4 (mobility of personnel) issues, e.g. through reemphasising the concept of GATS visa
- Issues like transparency, emergency safeguard measures, and new accessions.
1
Saudi Arabia
Meeting with Mr Ahmed Al Shambary, Counsellor, Trade in services of Saudi Arabia,
a newly acceding member to the WTO. He came in to listen only, and did not have
the authority to speak. Some of the points mentioned:
 Importance of transparency and certainty of rules (Tom Burns, Association of
British Insurers, and David Synder of American Insurance Association)
 Lesson from China’s accession: Trade negotiators did not have to wait for
regulators to sort out all regulatory problems before committing to trade
liberalisation, because they realize the value of GATS to them (WK Chan,
HKCSI).
 Energy sector is interested in a commitment being made in the services schedule,
with national treatment for commercial presence (Eva Hoos, Eurelectric, Belgium)
 Saudi completed accession bilateral with most countries but not the US. The US
private sector wanted branch operations to be allowed, and acquired rights for
companies already present to be safeguarded, especially for financial industries.
They were also interested in audio-visual export, especially content. (Bob Vastine,
USCSI)
 The accession agreement is not the end of the process. The Working Party
process is important to clarify implementation issues. (John Cooke, Association
of British Insurers)
WTO Services Division
The panel included Ambassador Alejandro Jara of Chile, who is Chairman of the
WTO’s Council for Trade in Services; WTO Deputy Director General Rufus Yerxa
and Director of Services Hamid Mamdouh.
Ambassador Jara
 Aim of current negotiations is to seek modest results before July, first with
agriculture, then NAMA (non-agricultural market access), which would then give
a boost to services.
 For services, the priority is to get more offers on the table. Some 50 members
have not yet done so.
 The quality of offers also needs attention. An effort can be made by the latter part
of the year into early next year to try to improve the offers through the
request/offer process.
 Rule-making also needs attention, especially on safeguards and subsidies.
 Mode 4 may become a big issue.
 In the negotiations, regulators need to be engaged in liberalization.
 The CSIs were urged to reach out to the private sectors of countries which have
not yet made offers.
Rufus Yerxa
 Now is the “window of opportunity” for the WTO, with the aim to get to the
Cancun target of a framework agreement on agriculture and other topics.
 Agriculture is pivotal. A deal there will lead to a deal in NAMA, and then in
others including Singapore issues and then services.
2
Hamid Mamdouh
 The reasons for not making offers could vary, from linkage reason (linkage to
agriculture) to capacity problems requiring technical assistance, consultation
mechanism in capitals, not enough understanding of services’ role in the economy,
lack of private sector involvement, etc.
 The WTO’s TPRM (trade policy review mechanism) process has been useful in
helping countries understand more about trade in services, and has hence become
a useful tool capacity building and technical assistance.
 Much work is going on in improving understanding of GATS’ legal text and in
supporting the request/offer process on the technical side.
Discussion
 On Mode 4: developing countries expect to have much to gain from the Mode 4
negotiations. (Jara)
 On the mechanism in achieving results: The Derbez text should form the basis for
the framework agreement, but this has not been agreed. The agreed text will have
to come from the General Council (Yerxa). The services text will have to follow
the rhythm of the rest. The private sector could help generate momentum by
coming out with a strong message about the services text (Jara).
New Zealand: Agriculture
Sir Iain Vallance, the mission Chairman, joined and chaired this session with
Ambassador Tim Groser of New Zealand, Chairman of the WTO Committee on
Agriculture.
 The original negotiating plan can be described as “dreaming in technicolour”, or
“negotiating with a chair”; the scope of negotiations has not been defined clearly.
The roadmap that assumes that everything can be decided after agriculture, is
flawed.
 Negotiation is a process of adjusting expectations. The name of the game is
engagement. Cancun failed because there had not been enough genuine
negotiation beforehand in Geneva. The Geneva process was meant to reduce the
issues for ministers, who can take decisions but cannot negotiate. Only in Geneva
can negotiations be successful.
 “Modalities” (the subject of the current negotiations) should be about method, not
substance, yet the current “modalities” negotiations are too much focused on
results, thus robbing the process of flexibility.
 In the strategic picture, the Doha Development Agenda unlikely to fail. What is
needed now is a strong drive at the right moment, and this CSI visit could be one
of such drivers. Because of linkages among subjects, the agriculture negotiations
need to be supported by those in services and other subjects. Agriculture can pull
other subjects forward, but at the same time it needs itself to be pushed by
progress in other areas especially services.
 The bet is that a framework should be achieved by summer. For agriculture,
negotiations will follow naturally from the agreed framework. For services, work
is ongoing on a variety of subjects, and strategic management of the negotiations
is important.
3
Philippines: Domestic regulation
Mr Johannes Bernabe of Philippines was the outgoing Chairman of the WTO
Working Party on Domestic Regulation.
 The services negotiations should comprise both market access and rules, the latter
including emergency safeguard measures.
 Philippines has not tabled market access offer yet, and will do so soon after the
May election.
 On domestic regulation, there is a long way to go before a set of disciplines
evolves for services.
 Due to sectoral differences, a horizontal approach may become very generalised.
A sectoral approach, on the other hand, may raise concerns among developing
countries which fear developed countries may come up with many proposals for
reference papers on various sectors.
Brazil
Mr Paulo Mesquita was Brazil’s Counsellor in charge of services.
 Brazil’s stand is that the services negotiations will have to depend on meaningful
results in first. Brazil has not tabled its offer yet, but even if the offer is ready, it
will wait until there is progress in agriculture.
 Most of the discussion was about persuading Brazil, unsuccessfully, for a reassessment of its position on services.
Dinner
The dinner was held at the Hotel de la Paix in honour of the following WTO
ambassadors/officials:
- Canada: Ambassador Sergio Marchi
- Australia: Ambassador David Spencer
- Chile: Ambassador Alejandro Jara
- EU: Mr Peter Thompson, Deputy Head of Delegation
- Hong Kong: Mr Thomas Chan, Deputy Permanent Representative
- Japan: Mr Nori Yaegashi, Counsellor
After a brief welcoming speech by Sir Iain, al six guests were invited to speak briefly
in turn. Their remarks covered the following points:
 Tribute to the CSIs for showing strong business support for the Doha
Development Agenda.
 The private sector needs to speak up on the need to table offers, and on improving
the quality of offers.
 Despite the problems in Cancun, it was emphasised that the multilateral system
was superior to regional trade arrangements.
 To strengthen the private sector voice further, it was suggested that the CSIs help
other economies form similar counterpart organisations.
4
23 March 2004
Egypt
Mr Amgad Abdelghaffar was First Secretary in charge of trade in services.
 Egypt’s domestic law is being re-formulated in line with liberalization. They are
still in the process of linking domestic regulatory restructuring to the Geneva
process, hence they have not yet tabled the GATS offer. Egyptian stakeholders
need to understand liberalisation more before being able to make offers.
 On how Egypt could harness its recent interest in trade and investment promotion
for constructive progress in GATS: The private sector would dictate the position.
Egypt’s negotiating interests are more in Mode 4, Mode 3 (commercial presence)
and tourism.
African countries: Botswana
Ambassador Charles Ntwaagae of Botswana was the only representative who turned
up, among a few African country representatives who had been invited.
 The service sector is very important for developing African economies. Besides
Mode 4, their priorities are, respectively:
- Mode 1: telecommunications, energy;
- Mode 2: tourism;
- Mode 3: financial services;
 On the request/offer process, they are concerned that their service sector is small
and there is no comprehensive inventory of service industries. They are not
sufficiently armed with information on the implications of commitments and how
to attach conditions to the commitments. The need to organize the private sector
also presented difficulties.
 (In answer to whether there had been any “wrongly made” commitments in the
Uruguay Round.) There had not been “wrong commitments” as such, but they had
to be cautious due to the binding nature of the commitments. For many sectors,
GATS commitments had public policy implications.
 On the Singapore issues, the African countries would want investment and
competition policy to be dropped, and the debate to be focused on trade
facilitation only. Negotiations on the latter are welcomed, except where it might
possibly lead to negotiations over privatization.
India
The Indian officials included Mr Radjiva Misra, Deputy Permanent Representative in
Geneva, and Mr R Gopaln from New Dehli.
 The service sector is important to India, which has tabled its offers to the WTO.
 India is ready to improve its offers but this will depend on what it can get in
return from other parties’ offers.
 On Singapore issues, India was uncomfortable with investment, competition and
government procurement, but was in broad agreement on trade facilitation. On
investment and competition, a plurilateral approach advocated by the EU may be
a possible way out but even so there is concern that it may have systemic
implications, if the result is to create another WTO negotiating tool.
5
Thailand
Thailand’s representative was Ms Kanitha Kungshawanich, Counsellor in charge of
services. This session took place instead of a meeting with Russia originally
scheduled.
 For Thailand, trade in services is an evolving process. It has its own position and
export interest on services, although for ASEAN as a whole there is a 2020
framework on services.
 Thailand may launch a free trade agreement with the US.
Vietnam
Vietnam’s representatives included Ambassador Ngo Quang Xuan, Counsellor Dang
Ngoc Minh and Attache Tran Quoc Khanh.
 Vietnam is still in the process of acceding to the WTO. It is hoped that an
expedient conclusion to the accession can be achieved.
 They expressed concern about some countries erecting barriers to prevent
developing country exporting. There is also concern about a prolonged delay of
the DDA, especially with the US election and the change of Commissioner of the
EU.
 On services, Vietnam has made commitments in 10 sectors and 92 subsectors in
its accession negotiations. This is better than that of some existing members.
Wrap-up session with WTO Services Division
Present were Ambassador Jara and a services team from the Secretariat led by Hamid
Mamdouh. Representatives from the CSIs were first asked by Bob Vastine on their
view so far. All (WK Chan from HKCSI, John Cooke from UK, and Michael Landry
of Canada Mike, etc.) expressed cautious optimism. WK Chan suggested that the
private sector consider sending a letter to urge countries not having made offers to do
so.
Ambassador Jara
 The immediate need is to have a critical mass of offers. If the CSIs can
collectively send a letter to the non-offering countries, this would be useful for the
WTO to request more offers to be tabled.
 The value of the offers need to be shown, so that it can be linked to progress in
the DDA and not be “left behind”.
 His work plan is to conduct “confessionals” of those which have not made offers,
after the next meeting of the Council for Trade in Services, to determine see if the
problem is technical, tactical or otherwise.
Hamid Mamdouh
 The services negotiations have not fallen behind despite much work still
outstanding. Given that the framework modalities for agriculture and NAMA
were not yet ready, the progress in services is still in line with the DDA
benchmark.
6


What happens between now and July is out of the hands of services negotiators.
The DDA itself may need to be re-configured and its assumptions re-evaluated.
One systemic problem in the services negotiations is the difficulty for ministers in
digesting the GATS system. Trade ministers often find themselves having to
represent and negotiate on policies outside of their portfolio/ministries.
China
The representative was Ms Zhang Liping, Counsellor in charge of services.
 China’s WTO implementation coincided with the DDA negotiations. Still China,
a new member in a learning process, has tabled offers on the DDA in agriculture,
NAMA and services.
 China is very positive on trade in services, as reflected in its own Tenth Five Year
Plan. China is, however, less experienced in regulation and regulators.
Sometimes new regulations arise because China has to institute reforms as a result
of implementation of commitments, and yet China gets criticized for new
regulations. China will draw lessons from these experiences.
 China’s commitments are high-quality, and better than those of some developed
countries, e.g. it has made commitments in Mode 4 on contractual workers and
intra-corporate transferees.
 On domestic regulations, China now provides opportunity for prior comments for
services providers.
 On the high capital requirement of financial industries (regarded by some as
discriminatory and out of line with international benchmarks), Chinese regulators
will want to be on the safe side, hence there is a different view from that of
industry. More dialogue is needed between both sides. There is no one-size-fitsall solution, and given that China’s financial services industries have a short
history, China regulators have to consider the country’s own circumstances.
Nicaragua: GATS Rules
Mr Santiago Urbina of Nicaragua was outgoing Chairman of the WTO Working Party
on GATS Rules. After introducing briefly the service industries situation of
Nicaragua, the discussion turned to GATS rules.
 The subjects under “GATS rules” include emergency safeguard measures (ESM),
government procurement, and subsidies. Most of the discussion so far has been
on ESM.
 There is a concern over ESM as applied to Mode 4, as different from other modes,
because of the visible nature of people (as opposed to invisible nature of services).
 Another issue of attention is that of “acquired rights”: of companies established
over time to have the right to be treated as local companies.
Post-mission Core Group meeting
A meeting of the Global Services Network core group was held immediately after the
formal meetings were over. The following attended:
- Mr. Pascal Kerneis, Managing Director, ESF (host)
- Dr. WK Chan, Secretary-General, HKCSI
- M Peter Walsh, Chairman, Australian Services Roundtable (ASR)
7
-
Mr. Robert Vastine, President, U.S. Coalition of Service Industries (US
CSI)
Mr. Atsushi Yamakoshi, Deputy Director, Japan Services Network/Nippon
Keidanren (JSN)
The following three courses of action were agreed:
 To write to all ambassadors of WTO members which have not tabled the GATS
commitments to urge them to do so (ESF to draft).
 To consider a study examining the quality of the offers on the table. (ESF to lead).
 To draft a text for the services negotiations to be submitted to the next APEC
meeting, which will be held in Chile (HKCSI to draft).
8