Unto Dagonell Collingwood, Garnet Herald, doth Juliana de Luna, Gage Herald, send greetings!
Below find the comments of the Debateable commenting group on the Aethelmearc Internal
Letter of Intent A40. The following people assisted: Myfanwy verch Rhiannon, Richenda du
Jardin, Cadell Blaidd Du, Ailis Linne, and Roana d'Evreux.
Please withdraw item 8 (name for Daman Mac Saoirbhreathaich). The submitter changed his
mind almost immediately after I sent it in.
1. Aileann inghen Prosinnsias - As drawn, the fleur-de-lys may be a little high, obscuring the top
of the chevron.
2. Alastar Scott MacCrummin - From Juliana: While I appreciate my name being attached to
such lovely armory, I'm not the herald of record: Myfanwy is.
3. Angus MacBain - Reblazon: On a quatrefoil pean, a lion rampant argent. This device would
be nicer if the lion were bigger, and the ermine spots fewer and smaller.
4. Angus Olyver - Blazon fu: reversed, not reverse. We're concerned about the identifiability of
the central charges, as their small size and lack of internal detail makes them hard to recognize.
These cannons are not the Pic-Dic cannons; has evidence been presented for this depiction as a
period cannon?
5. Charles de Cayeux -- Azure, a cross ermine, in canton a crescent or.
Withycombe (p. 63) dates this spelling of Charles to 1273.
My mistake: Cayeux is from Dauzat and Rostaing (title is correct).
6. Christofano Vecchione -- [Fieldless] A pear vert.
Somehow, this badge didn't get conflict checked, or I would have found: Hector aus Pier: " Per
chevron throughout azure and Or, in base a pear vert." There's one CD for fieldless to fielded,
but none for position on a fieldless badge. This should probably be blazoned as "slipped and
leaved."
7. Clement of Morocco - This clears the first conflict, but creates a new one. Consider Gwynffd
of Ogg, "Purpure, on a bend sinister Or a blackbird perching upon a log sable, holding in its beak
an annulet gules." There is a single CD for changes to the tertiary. He should consider adding
secondaries.
The standard SCA descrption for this arrangement of trees is hurst (Pic Dic, fig. 749, for
example). Is there evidence for the use of copse as a heraldic term? We looked in all the
standard sources (Woodward, Parker, Brooke-Little), and the consensus is that "hurst" is the
correct name for this. Whatever it is, it ought to be emblazoned as "on a mount" according to the
Pic Dic.
8. Daman Mac Saoirbhreathaich
Please withdraw this item; the submitter asked me to not send it up about two days after I sent it
up. He will resubmit a different name shortly.
9. Richenda du Jardin
Withycombe (s.n Richenda) gives <Richenda> as a header form, and says the name was
"recorded very early."
Consider Gwynaeth Bronwyn: "Per pale azure and argent, a tree within a bordure crescenty, all
counterchanged." This is clear: there is almost certainly a CD for the difference between a tree
and a crequier, as well as for the bordure.
10. Duarcan O'Raghailligh
This would be more authentic as <Duarcán Ó Raghailligh>.
11. Duncan MacAngus <Angus> is a header form. The name is a fine Scots rendering.
The device could be reblazoned without the first "Or," but I think I'd leave it for clarity.
This is clear of Damhnait of the Cleftlands "Azure, two dragons combattant Or." There is one
CD for change to the field, and a second for an unforced change of position.
12. Eleanor Vaughan
The citations are as given.
13. Graidhne ni Ruaidh
This is a crescent, not a decrescent - that'll teach me not to check up on very senior heralds .
Since someone asked: Yes, the intent of this was to only change the field.
14. Hildarun Hugelmann -- Sable, a crampon or.
15. Juliana de Luna
Name is as cited. As I cannot find the documentation I thought I had for that depiction of a
chequy like thing (it's not countercompony, as there are more than 2 rows of checks), I'm
replacing it with vanilla chequy.
16) Kaithren Rowand -I can do no better than quote Da'ud (his precedents, 10/90):
"The field is not really chaussé; it is not per chevron inverted, it is not a pile, it is not a chief
triangular; being somewhere between all of these, we don't really know what it is. Chaussé
issues from the corners of the chief and would touch the base point of the shield; per chevron
inverted would issue from the sides of the field (rather than the chief corners); a pile would issue
from further in on the chief (rather [than] from the corners and would almost touch the base point
of the shield and would not have room for a charge beaneath it, and a chief triangular would not
descend the field nearly so far as the one does here. Please have them choose one and
reemblazon it properly."
This should be redrawn as either:
Per chevron inverted (with the yellow part starting from the sides)
A chief triangular (with the yellow part going down about a third of the way on the shield and
the fleur-de-lys smaller than the lion).
17. Kyriell Hawkmoon
We all get Dagonell points; however we note that as it is drawn, it just looks like the intent was
"Argent, a hawk close belled azure." Alas, it has conflicts: consider
Holleigh Falcon, "Argent, a falcon azure, hooded, jessed and belled gules, within an orle of holly
leaves vert, fructed gules." There is a single CD for the orle; we believe there is none for the
gules.
Also Karena del Falco|8802N|b|Argent, a falcon close gules. There is but a single CD for change
in color to the primary charge.
However, this is clear of Elizabeth FitzRandolph Argent, an owl close guardant azure, orbed,
beaked and taloned Or, grasping in its dexter talon a book and in sinister chief an increscent
azure. There is one CD for the removal of the increscent, and another for the change from owl to
falcon, according to new precedent: "I am hereby overturning the precedent declaring that
"raptors are raptors". Falcons and owls were different charges in period and have differing
outlines; therefore we are allowing a CD (although not substantial difference) between them.
(LoAR 01/00).
18. Orianna Fridrikskona
As I have been informed that this submission has been withdrawn, I will not belabor it.
However, an augmentation of the arms of Aethelmearc creates two problems: (1) the crown
(well, Orianna is a court baroness as well as a sitting one, and we have the generic crown, so I
think that's OK) and (2) the laurel wreath. Da Rules (the glossary of terms, in fact) lists Laurel
wreaths as a reserved charge. It's silly, but it's da rules. If we violate them, the heavens will fall,
or something. The badge would be fine as an augmentation.
19) Roana d'Evreux -- Argent, a tree eradicated sable and a tierce purpure.
The documentation is as cited. To clarify: the submitter wants French <Evreux>, which she
believes to be the proper spelling, although the documentation provided is for the English forms,
which mostly have <Evereaux>.
From Myfanwy:
Reaney _OES_ (pp. 70-73) gives an extensive list of English surnames derived from French
place names, especially from Normandy; the list includes (p. 71) those derived from <Evreux>.
While the submitted form is not given, the other ones listed in Reaney are. In addition,
derivations Òinclude only such surnames originating from places in France as are known to
survive today.... The surname is first found in Domesday Book unless a date is given.Ó Obsolete
names are not listed. Certainly this dates the place name, and this is probably a reasonable
variant spelling.
This tree has got the most serious root system I've ever seen, but it's the submitter's chosen
depiction.
20. Roana dÕEvreux -- [Fieldless] A tree eradicated per pale purpure and sable.
Again, there's more tree underground than above.
21. Thomas Ouswood -- Vert, a lantern argent enflamed or.
No comments.
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Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme and Akagawa Yoshio [Kevin Munday and Bruce Miller].
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Fox-Davies, Arthur Charles. A Complete Guide to Heraldry. New York: Bonanza Books,
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Garmondsway, G. N. (trans.) The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. London: J. M. Dent and Sons
Ltd.; and New York: E. P. Dutton and Co. Inc., 1953; rev. ed. 1960. [EverymanÕs Library
#624]
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î Corr‡in, Donnchadh, and Fidelma Maguire. Irish Names. Dublin: the Lilliput Press;
1981, 1990.
Parker, James. A Glossary of Terms Used in Heraldry. Rutland, VT: Charles E. Tuttle Co.,
1970.
Reaney, P. H. The Origin of English Surnames. London and New York: Routledge and
Kegan Paul; 1967, 1987.
Reaney, P. H., and R. M. Wilson. A Dictionary of British Surnames, 3rd ed. Oxford:
Oxford University Press, 1995, 1997.
von Volborth, Carl-Alexander. Heraldry: Customs, Rules and Styles. Poole, Dorset:
Blandford Press, 1981.
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