HISTORIC RELIGIOUS BUILDINGS ALLIANCE
GENERAL MEMBERS MEETING
MEETING – 5TH DECEMBER 2012
Held between 2.15 and 4.30pm at Sandys Row Synagogue, 4a Sandys Row, Spitalfields,
London, E1 7HW.
Attendees
Trevor Cooper (TC), Chair of Places of Worship at Heritage Alliance
Becky Payne (BP), Places of Worship Development Officer
Nigel Robb (NR), Associate Secretary, Worship, Doctrine, Art and Architecture, Church of Scotland
Donna McDonald (DD), Independent Consultant
Diana Evans (DE), Head of Places of Worship Advice, English Heritage
Jack Gilbert (JG), Board Member Sandys Row Synagogue, and member of the Board of Jewish Deputies
Dr Sharman Kadish, Director, Jewish Heritage UK
Roland Jeffery, Director Historic Chapels Trust
Richard Halsey
Matthew Seward (MS), Deputy Chief Executive, National Churches Trust (NCT)
Sarah Crossland, Churches Support Officer, National Churches Trust
Caroline Egerton (CE), Historic County Churches Trusts Liaison Group
Leena Seim (LS), Future of Religious Heritage, European Network
Matthew Cooper (MC), Church Maintenance Support Officer, Diocese of London
Charlotte Dodgeon (CD), Programme Manager for Places of Worship and Townscapes, Heritage Lottery Fund
Ruth Knight, (RK), Environmental Policy Manager, Cathedral and Church Buildings Division, Church of
England
Gerry Prosser (GP), Listed Buildings Advisory Group, United Reformed Church
Jane Kennedy, Architect, PurcellUK and English Heritage Commissioner
George Allan, Maintain our Heritage
Guest speaker
Dr Bruce Induni, Project Officer for the new SPAB Maintenance Co-ops project
Apologies
Canon John Brown, Chair of the Churches Tourism Association
Crispin Truman, Chief Executive of the Churches Conservation Trust
Tim Bridges, Conservation Adviser for Birmingham & the West Midlands, Victorian Society
Graham Jones, National Rural Officer for the Methodist Church and the United Reformed Church
Janet Gough, Director, Cathedral and Church Buildings Division, Church of England
Alex Glanville (AG), Head of Property Services, Church in Wales
Mobeen Butt, Islam in British Stone
Joanne Balmforth, Conservation Officer, the Methodist Church
Maria Yioutani-Iacovides, Conservation Officer for the Methodist Church
Jo Hibbard, Methodist Heritage, The Methodist Church
Caroline Egerton, Historic Churches Trust Liaison Group
Sarah King, Association of English Cathedrals
Kate Pugh, Chief Executive, The Heritage Alliance
Sophie Andreae, Deputy Chair, Patrimony Sub-committee, Roman Catholic Church
Matthew Saunders, Director, Friends of Friendless Churches
AGENDA
1. Trevor Cooper, Chair welcomed everyone and introductions were made.
2. Short talks were given by the following members, followed by discussion.
i) Bruce Induni, Project Manager for the Maintenance Co-Operatiave Movement Pilot Project (SPAB)
Bruce talked about the pilot projects he has been running in Herefordshire in advance of a bid being made
to the HLF.
Action: BP will circulate with the note of this meeting, the latest newsletter from this project. You can also
read more on the SPAB website at http://www.spabfim.org.uk/blog/
ii) Dr Sharman Kadish, Jewish Heritage UK
Sharman explained the background to the setting up of Jewish Heritage UK and what research has been
undertaken to date.
Action: BP will circulate, with the note of this meeting, Sharman’s talk.
iii) Ruth Knight on Church of England Churches Condition Survey
RK explained that the aim of the exercise was to get all QIs onto one database which would then form the
basis of a heritage record for the Church of England. Crucially, it would enable the CofE to target support to
those churches/areas most at risk.
DE explained that English Heritage has also given funds to the other exempted denominations to undertake
similar exercises and that all the information gathered will feed into the 2014 English Heritage Heritage at
Risk Register.
CD added that although HLF already ask for QIs as part of application support material, any exercise that
raised the standards of the QI process was to be welcomed.
RK added that discussions were on-going as to how the database would be kept up to date.
The meeting agreed that it would be useful if the exercise could also evaluate the quality of QIs being
produced across the country.
Action: BP will circulate JGs note on progress of the survey with the note of this meeting.
3: Internal Matters
3. Update on HRBA activities and developments (Trevor Cooper and Becky Payne)
3.1 HRBA’s Annual Members’ Day on 12 September 2012
TC reported that The Big Update had been a successful day and appreciated by the 40 who attended. The
day started with an update on the proposed new grant programmes from the Heritage Lottery Fund and was
followed by 8 presentations describing the challenges of sustaining our historic religious buildings heritage
from the Catholic Church, the Churches Trust for Cumbria and from an English Heritage project finding
sustainable futures for historic chapels in Cornwall. The audience also heard about the future of church
seating, Gutterclear (a scheme to help congregations maintain their buildings) and the use of a range of
new technology to engage and inform visitors to historic places of worship. Especially interesting was a talk
from Islam in British Stone describing the history of Muslim presence in the UK and how mosques are being
encouraged to record their own histories. Presentations are now up on the HRBA website – under
Information.
3.2 The HRBA Sustainability Project
TC and BP reported that thanks to a grant from English Heritage for the purpose, HRBA had been able
earlier this year to do a very thorough and systematic search for funders, using various databases.
However, not many were found who were are prepared to provide core funding for HRBA’s sort of activity
TC and BP have attended a meeting with one funder and an application has been made for 2.5 days a
week funding for two years.
3.3 Pilot Training Day on the Management of Major Building Projects
TC and BP explained this training day which is taking place at All Saints Church (the ‘Lewis Carroll church’),
Daresbury, Cheshire, and is being organized by HRBA, in partnership with, and with significant financial
support from, PurcellUK.
This is a new venture for HRBA. If this pilot is successful, the intention is to run similar events in other
regions. Some members had been invited to be speakers at this pilot event, and it was expected that others
would be invite if similar events were rolled out. All members who supplied relevant services would have the
opportunity to provide copies of their literature for those attending the pilot.
In summary, the day is intended to help with the management of all stages of a building project in a place
of worship, from start up through to making sure benefits are achieved over the long term. It is aimed at
those concerned with places of worship of all sizes, types and location, and will be relevant both to new
build, alterations and repairs. Although focusing on projects of a significant size, many of the principles
apply in simplified form to smaller projects, and the day should be useful whatever the size of project being
considered. It will be useful both to those who are directly responsible for a single project in a single
building, and those who have an oversight role for a number of religious buildings.
Further details about the day and how to book can be found at http://www.hrballiance.org.uk/?page_id=5
4. Information Sharing
4. Updates on matters previously discussed: Removal of zero-rated VAT on alterations to listed buildings – BP reported that the revised
scheme was now in operation and the payments made in the first quarter would be
appearing on the LPWGS shortly
 The DCMS One-Off Capital Grant for 2012-13 – MS reported that all the grants had now
been offered up to the full amount by CofE and NCT. All claims must be paid out by the
required end date of 31 March 2013. MS confirmed that the processing of applications by
non-Christian denominations had been undertaken by NCT, but decisions had been made
by DCMS. Meeting agreed that we very much appreciated the grant from DCMS, but that it
had had to be operated within very tight timescales.
 Research project into sustainability of rural places of worship – RK reported that a piece of
research into social enterprises within places of worship had been undertaken thanks to
funding from the HLF. This was however, small piece of a much larger research project on
making places of worship sustainable. The working group of representatives from the
Church of England, the Arthur Rank Centre and the Plunkett Foundation was intending to
reconvene to take this forward.
CD confirmed that the Social Enterprise report and its recommendations were currently
being considered within HLF.
 Update on Energy Efficiency issues – RK provided a very full and detailed report on all that
is happening within this area.
CD said that HLF has a new ‘greening’ guidance and requirements which is going to be
running throughout all its grant programmes. This will be put up on the HLF website shortly.
RK reported that CofE had held a Heating Conference on 3rd December and new guidance
on heating for churches will be going up on Churchcare next year.
Action: BP will circulate RK’s note on this with the note on this meeting.
 Heritage Counts 2012 – theme of Resilience and inclusion of HRB case studies – BP
confirmed that two cases illustrating places of worship and resilience had been included –
one in the hard copy report and one on-line. TC thanked Becky for her efforts to get such
case studies included.
 Metal theft – Meeting noted that MP Richard Ottaway’s Private Member’s Bill to provide
new regulation for the scrap metal trade passed its third reading in the House of Commons
on 9 November. This means a new licensing regime could be in place for the metal trade
industry by February 2013,
5. Short updates from other members present.
 CD reminded the meeting that the new HLF grant programmes for POWs will be going live on 14 th
December. 28th February will be the first deadlines for applications with first decisions being made
by the regional committees in June 2013. There would then be a three-monthly cycle for
applications.
 LS reported back on the very successful Future for Religious Heritage Conference held in
November in Venice. A report back is on the website at http://www.futurereligiousheritage.eu/
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She also reported that the Head Office of FRH (and herself) will be moving to Brussels from next
year.
JG reported on the Tower Hamlets new fund for religious buildings. JG and other mission leaders
have approached the Council about problems with the application process. It was important to get
right as it could provide a model for other boroughs/areas.
MS reported that NCT has been meeting with the Church in Wales and other Welsh organisations
with responsibilities for places of worship and other key stakeholders to discuss whether there is a
need for the equivalent of the a County Churches Trust to be set up for Wales. A small working
group is developing proposals.
MC reported that London Diocese is working with the Metropolitan Police to identify where lead is
currently to be found and mapping it against risk levels. This is then being passed onto local
community police networks.
6. The meeting ended with a fascinating tour and short talk (including videos) on the history of the Sandys
Row Synagogue led by Jack Gilbert.
7. Dates for future General Meetings for 2013 usually between 2pm-4.30 pm (except for the Annual Open Day
which is an all day event)
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Wednesday 6th March
Wednesday 5th June 2013 [NOT 12 June as previously mentioned]
Annual Open Day on Wednesday 11 September.
Wednesday 4th December 2013 (note the Heritage Alliance Members Day is taking place on Thursday
5th December 2013. Holding our meeting the day before will minimize travel for those who want to
attend both).
BP and TC
19th December 2012