Thoughts and Reflections about Suffering and God’s “wrath”
flowing from Rev. 16/The Bowls, The Bible and Current World Crisis’
In all these questions below, consider the circles of context: Rev. 16/our passage, the whole book of Revelation, the
NT message, the entire bible, what you have witnessed in world history and current events like the Middle East, 9-11,
the War in Iraq, etc.
Note as well: The Cross of Jesus becomes pivotal to understanding and wrestling with questions on evil, wrath and
suffering. Romans 8:17-39 is also a critical text in my opinion.
The questions are not in any particular order, though the first grouping of questions seems to me to foundational.
Certainly some questions do overlap.
Invitation: Come to these questions willing to be stretched and live with tension and mystery that cannot be understood
stood completely, to the always compassionate God. Come to see God, who always aches with us, in a larger light.
Directions:
1) Read through all the questions2) Spend some time writing in some initial answers (use another sheet for your reflections)-on one or more questions
that seem to grab you. Mix your responses with an appropriate searching of the scriptures, pondering your own
perceptions and where they come from and a deeper exploration of truth.
OR
2) Rewrite a modern world crisis, informed by Rev. 16 and the scriptures on suffering, from an Heavenly perspective,
using apocalyptic language.
Questions to consider:
1. The Glory of God: What is the ultimate end and/or purpose of history? of the bible? of Jesus’ life? Be prepared to
support your answer biblically. Many reformed scholars and biblical texts suggest that it is the glory of God. Consider
John 9:1ff-the blind man was made blind to help now reveal Jesus’ glory…John 12:27-28 (suffering and glory
connected), John 17:1ff (Jesus’ death and glory), Romans 8:17ff, Rev. 21/25 (glory used 3 times in description of
Heaven).
What does that mean: “the glory of God”? (You may want to do a brief word study or see a Bible dictionary on
glory to get a feel for this thread in the bible.)
Do you agree with this proposition? What themes do you think have greater or equal weight?
How do these themes relate to the glory of God?
The key question then becomes: How could any kind of suffering give God glory?
2. Happiness: America says the dominant purpose of life is happiness and well being in this life. Is this view biblical?
The bible does not use the word ‘happy’ but rather ‘joy’ for the Christian life; what is the difference? What is
joy? When do we have it?
What is the relationship of joy and suffering in the bible?
How does all this affect our view of suffering in the world?
3. What do you believe about God’s holiness and his wrath? They are inseparable from each other and his love
according to Scripture, and large biblical texts are devoted to them. Note the apocalyptic words that come from Jesus’
own mouth (Matt. 24, Mark 13) and how the fall of Jerusalem is prophesied as God’s judgment on Israel/Jerusalem.
This is a Jesus issue, not just an OT god issue!
4. Is suffering ‘evil’?
If you answer both yes and no, how and when is it each?
Consider: What roles or purposes did God’s initiated or sanctioned suffering play in the Old Testament?
(consider e.g. the Fall, Cain/Abel, Noah, Babel, wilderness, Judges cycle, the Prophets/OT Israel/The Exile)
Jesus “learned Obedience in suffering.” (Heb. 5:8) What does that suggest about the connection of growth and
suffering for us then who are made in his image? See Phil. 3:10-14 connections.
How does Job grow through his ‘undeserved’ sufferings?
5. Why is there any good in the world if God is holy?
Is this a better or at least equal biblical question than “why is there evil in the world if God is loving?” From the
perspective of a holy God, do we deserve to suffer? Christians? Non-Christians? Even those who have not heard the
gospel directly? See Romans 1:18ff, e.g.
The 1st century Jews, who feared God, lived by a code of honor and shame, would not dare to call God ABBA
or friend, asked, “How can God who is a holy judge and greatly feared be loving and gracious?” We are often
impatient at how long it took the Jews to understand that God is loving even toward his “enemies.” (Jonah, e.g.)
In our day, where God is often treated as friend more than one to be revered, we ask, “How can a God who is
loving and gracious be judge or an agent of wrath?”
Would a transplanted 1st Century Jew be impatient at our inability to revere God, to accept his holy wrath, to
see “The Great I AM” as too small and remade in our own image?
Is it possible that the cross brings both poles of God’s character (love and wrath), both extreme questions into a
possible “communion?” How would you state this in your own words?
6. Is all or any suffering judgment from God?
How do you differentiate?
If God used and “initiated” the suffering in Exodus, of Babylon, and in Revelation (Lamb opens the
scrolls/Roman judgment) to judge and call his people to repent (“discipline”), are those the only times he initiates uses
suffering that way? Does he not do so in lesser extreme crisis’s in-between?
What about our present world? 9-11? How are we so sure when He is or is not judging?
If other aspects of God’s kingdom are present now and fulfilled at Christ’s return, could not judgment be also in
that category still? How can we know for certain either way?
7. God’s holy wrath: Why is the holiness of God, his wrath and judgment so hard for Western Christianss to talk
about or accept? Consider American culture, view of God, of sin, of choice, of ourselves.
Consider other cultures: is it easier for them to believe in the wrath of God? Why or why not?
8. The sovereignty of God: What does it mean for God to be 100% sovereign and king yet willing to limit himself in
some ways until the end of the world happens? What might that have to do with suffering and judgment?
What does it mean for God to allow something to happen? If it is not somehow his will, is God truly king now
or only later?
Job 1 gives us the picture that Satan is a servant of God, that he can do nothing to Job without God’s request.
What does this suggest re: our interpretation of Evil happening on earth?
9. Individual vs. Community Emphasis: Does God share our utter commitment to the rights of the individual over
and above the community? Does he agree with Caiphas that sometimes it is best for a few to die than the whole to not
wake up and perish?
Consider Anias and Saphira (Acts 4), the conquest of promised land (Achan in Joshua 7, Egyptian army
drowning in Red Sea, Sodom And Gomorrah, as well as Revelation 16.) Might God be willing to let 1/3 die in order to
give the other 2/3 a chance to repent? (Consider the trumpets in Rev. 8) What might these stories tell us about God’s
character?
10. What does the fear of the Lord mean in light of all this? Is there a healthy fear involved in the Kingdom of God?
Is not part of fearing God being aware of his judgment on sin in this life?
Is all judgment covered by Jesus’ blood in this life, even for those not in Christ?
Doesn’t judgment sometimes produce a healthy fear of God in people, too?
11. Our perception/proclamation of God’s judgment: Job’s peers who merely make suffering a 1/1 correlation with
Job’s sin, need for discipline and repentance to rid his pains, these God says are not friends or truth bearers at all. Their
role is to give kindness (Job 6:14). What does this suggest?
12. Suffering and Awakening: Why do tragedies often move 1) Christian and 2) non-Christian people to becoming
hot or cold, more dependent on God or themselves? Is this good from God’s perspective? (Rev. 3:14ff)
13. God’s discipline vs. suffering: As with a parent and a child-which is how God loves/disciplines us (Prov. 3, Heb
12:3ff!!); love always includes discipline. Can we see suffering in this light, at least partly?
14. God Wrath in light of the cross: Since Christ died on the cross and took the wrath for sin already, is there any
reason for God to keep bringing wrath on sin through suffering? Is that only for the very end of time?
Why then at the end is God’s wrath needed if Christ already took all that wrath on himself?
What differences might there be between believers and non believers vs. experiencing God’s wrath?
15. Believers vs. Unbelievers: Do Christians suffer in different ways than unbelievers? The same ways? Even if we
are under X’s blood? How could that (or even persecution/martyrdom) be right or part of God’s plan?
16. Jesus vs. us: If God caused his only beloved to suffer (Is. 53:9-10)….if Jesus who was God suffered with glorious
purpose, doesn’t that suggest that God could cause us to suffer, cause us to be like his son MORE in that suffering?
(Phil. 3:10-11, and especially Col. 1:24)
17. Community growth and suffering: If suffering, even when it’s evil and not my “fault”, builds character in
personally, then could evil and suffering endured by a nation or a community do the same?
18. What does HOPE have to do with all this? How does our view and conviction about the future impact our view
of suffering, evil, etc?
The bible/NT/Revelation suggests that this life and its sufferings are not worthy to be compared to the glory that
is to be revealed to us. Do most of us perhaps live with some remnant still of the American dream and with this
world’s future being our dominant sense of future and hope? Does this handicap us as Americans? How does a
potential martyr in Sudan live in hope, and how do they then interpret the evil of their persecutors?
19. Common vs. Special Grace: We often differentiate between Common grace (I.e., gifts from God all people get to
enjoy whether forgiven or not: order of the world, air to breathe, sunsets, marriage/kids, etc.) and Special Grace
(Jesus’ forgiveness from sins to intimacy with God for only those who God calls/those who receive it. The same could
be said about common revelation (truth communicated about God through nature, conscience, etc available to all!) and
special revelation (truth communicated about God through Jesus, OT Israel, the church, sacraments, etc available only
to those who believe). Is it possible to consider that there might be a differentiation in suffering, i.e., suffering
“common” to all of us as humans, and suffering that is “special,” i.e., set apart/differentiated either for God’s people or
those God wants to repent/believe in Him?
How might this add to our conversation about suffering?