Spotting German bayonets versus Turked German bayonets
by: seitengewehr98 ( 347347
)
There are a number of eBay sellers who offer once German bayonets that were sold to
the Turks and modified as purely German bayonets, which is completely misleading
and incorrect. "Turked" German bayonets are worth about a 1/4, and sometimes much
less, than their original counterparts.
The most common Turked bayonets that you will find are the "ersatz" series of
bayonets. These are generally all metal bayonets that were constructed during the
beginning of WWI to meet supply demands. There are several points to know that will
help you distinguish the real German ersatz from the Turked ones. First off, most
Turked bayonets are shortened to a blade length of about 10 inches. This is easy to
spot once you've seen enough German ersatz bayonets, and you can tell from the
photos based on the blade fuller, which on the shortened turked bayonets will run
almost to the tip. Secondly, you will find sloppy numbers on the cross-guards of many
Turkish bayos. Sometimes, the Turked ersatz bayonets will have new cross-guards
added, but unless you have studied bayonets enough, this won't be the easiest thing to
notice. The scabbards that come with the Turked German bayonets have ROUND frog
studs. These are always 100% Turkish.
You will also find both the German S98 (quillback) and S98/05 (butcher blade)
bayonets Turked as well. You can find these in both the plain blade and sawback
variety. Regarding the 98/05s, the majority of the Turked examples you will find are
from the maker Waffenfabrik Mauser and are dated W17, though you will also find
some others. The Germans NEVER shortened the 98/05s! The Germans did shorten
the S98s, but unless the example comes with a GERMAN scabbard (either a
shortened leather scabbard with metal fittings or the metal replacement scabbards,
both of which have German markings), the bayonet is Turkish. Another thing you will
notice about Turked S98s and 98/05s is that they tend to be in poor condition. The
grips usually have been worn smooth, which you would never find in the German army,
as they would have been promptly replaced. The sawbacks on the Turked models tend
to be worn down as well. You will also find sloppy numbers on the cross-guards of
these models as well.
KNOW the difference!! There are some sellers out there who just don't know enough,
and they really thing the bayonets they're selling is German, and there are other sellers
who do know the difference, but are taking advantage of new collectors who haven't
done enough research to know the difference. Ask any bayonet collector who has been
around for a little while, and they will tell you that the above information is 100%
correct.
I hope this helps! Please let me know if it does!
Turkish Model 1935 Knife Bayonet
This is an "all-new-construction" Turkish Model 1935 Knife Bayonet, designed to fit the various Turkish contract German
K98 Mauser carbines and rifles.
They are very similar to the Turkish Model 1890 "Shortened" Bayonet but can be easily identified by the blade flutes (or
fullers); on the Model 1890, the fullers run out of the tip, whereas on the Model 1935, the fullers are stopped before
reaching the tip. These bayonets are often found with the initials AS.FA stamped in the hilt; this is the abbreviation for and roughly translates to - the Turkish Military Arms Factory.
All models have wood grips; steel pommel (with integral push-button latching mechanism), crossguard, and blade.
The scabbards are blued sheet-rolled-steel as with the standard Turkish Model 1890 "Shortened" Bayonet and the all-newconstruction Turkish Model 1935 (Modified Peruvian 1909) Bayonet.
Another example of a Turkish Model 1935 Knife Bayonet
German Model KS98 "Sawback" Bayonet
The KS98 (Kurzes Seitengewehr) is a "sawback" knife bayonet manufactured from the period of 1902 thorough WWI. I
have no doubt they were also used in WWII. They were manufactured originally for Machine-Gun Units but were also
used by various other units. There are a number of variations, mostly with grips and attachment method. Most of these
will be found with Imperial German markings.
Well-made, single-edged steel blade with sawback, wood grips. This is not a cut-down variant of any '98 series bayonets.
All-metal "blued" sheet-rolled-steel scabbard.
If you need further information, please request such on the Weapons Identification Service page.
Return to the Bayonet Identification Page
German Model 1898/05 "Butcher"
Bayonet
Model 1898/05 n/A ("high-ears" and
"flash-guard") shown below.
This is a sword/knife bayonet manufactured from the period of 1905 to
about 1918. They were in service through WWII. They are well made,
typical of German weapons of the times.
There are a number of variations, including: sawback, sawback
removed, shortened, with/without flashguard, high/low "muzzle-ring"
ears, etc.
Well-made, single-edged swell-tip steel blade, wooden grips.
Designed to fit the 1898 German Mauser Carbines and Rifles.
All-metal "blued" scabbard or black-leather with steel throat and drag.
Please Note: These are currently being reproduced and offered by
various distributors. Beware of these being offered as originals by
secondary sources.
German Model 1898/05 "Butcher" Bayonet (with sawback, high ears) shown below.
German Model 1898/05 "Butcher" Bayonet (sawback removed, low ears) shown below.
German Model 1939 "Short" Dress Bayonet
(German Model 1939 Short "Walking Out" Bayonet)
These were privately purchased "dress" or walking-out" variants of the KS98 Mauser Bayonet, without the sawback and
is a shorter version of the German Model 1939 "Long" Dress Bayonet.
All metal parts are nickel-plated, grips are black plastic.
The hilts are steel construction, single rearward-swept lower quillon, bird's-head pommel.
The blades are usually about 8" in length, but some variants can be found with blades of ~10".
They can be found in a number of variations, some with screw-on grips, others with 2 or 3 grip-retaining rivets; some
were never intended to be placed on a rifle as the slots are removed or deleted entirely.
This example was produced by Paul D. Luneschloss (PDL) whom was in business - in some capacity - from 1810 to about
1965.
Scabbards are black-enameled, sheet-rolled steel.
Other various German Short Dress Bayonets
German Model 1939 "Long" Dress Bayonet
(German Model 1939 Long "Walking Out" Bayonet)
These were privately purchased "dress" or walking-out" variants of the KS98 Mauser Bayonet, without the sawback and is a
longer version of the German Model 1939 "Short" Dress Bayonet
All metal parts are nickel-plated, grips are black plastic.
The hilts are steel construction, single rearward-swept lower quillon, bird's-head pommel.
The blades are usually about 10" in length, but some variants can be found with blades of ~8".
They can be found in a number of variations, some with screw-on grips, others with 2 or 3 grip-retaining rivets; some were
never intended to be placed on a rifle as the slots are removed or deleted entirely.
Scabbards are black-enameled, sheet-rolled steel.
Turkish Model 1935 (Modified 1909 Peruvian) Bayonet
This is a knife bayonet cut-down and otherwise modified from original Peruvian Model 1909 (aka German Model S98
Machine-Gunners) bayonets; these were modified sometime prior to WWII and continued to be used through that war. It
was originally designed to fit the German K98 Mauser Carbine, and was sold to Peru as the Model 1909 for their Mauser
contract rifles and carbines. These were later purchased and modified by the Turks, who used them on their various
Mauser carbines and rifles.
All models have wood grips; steel pommel (with integral push-button latching mechanism), crossguard, and blade.
The scabbards are blued sheet-rolled-steel as with the standard Turkish Model 1890 "Shortened" Bayonet and the all-newconstruction Turkish Model 1935 Knife Bayonet.