UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Interview #788
HALL, JOAN and SIMON, DAVID
HALL, Joan (1946-)
Editor-in-Chief, Dictionary of American Regional English
At UW: 1975and
SIMON, David (1961-)
Director of Development, Dictionary of American Regional English
At UW: 1993Interviewed: 2006
Interviewer: Robert Lange
Length: 5 hours
Abstract: In this oral history, Robert Lange interviews Joan Hall of the Dictionary of
American Regional English (DARE), a long-term research project recording the
regionalisms of American dialect that was begun by well-known UW English professor
Frederic Cassidy in the early 1960s. Hall succeeded Cassidy as chief editor of the project
and saw the dictionary to completion in 2013. Hall discusses her own educational
background and introduction to DARE as well as the internal structure of the project
throughout its decades-long history, including its many funding challenges and
technological advancements. In the second half of the interview, Hall is joined by David
Simon, who served as DARE’s development officer during the late 1990s through the
early 2000s. Hall and Simon detail the myriad of fundraising issues that the project faced
and how DARE overcame them.
Keywords: Dictionary of American Regional English (DARE); Lexicography;
Editorial staff; Funding; Field work; Editorial work; Production; Coding of text;
Electronic edition; Culture of the project; Uses of DARE; UW-Madison Advisory
Board for DARE; Board of Visitors; Fundraising and donors; Projections for
Volume V
First Interview Session (July 18, 2006): Tapes 1-3
Tape 1/Side 1
00:00:01
Interviewer’s introduction. Joan Hall went to graduate school at Emory
University, where she intended to study Southern literature. She enrolled in a
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
2
course on the history of English language with Lee Pederson, who was starting a
dialect survey of rural Georgia.
00:02:29
Pederson told her about the Dictionary of American Regional English (DARE)
project at UW-Madison.
00:02:55
She saw Fred Cassidy at a conference and wanted to introduce herself to him at a
party during the conference, but she was too nervous.
00:04:20
In 1972 she and her husband moved to Eugene, Oregon so he could attend a
library science program. JH continued to transcribe interviews for her
dissertation. Her dissertation was based on the fieldwork she did for Pederson in
rural Georgia. She describes her survey methods. She specifically studied the
pronunciation of southeast Georgian communities. JH’s husband got a job at a
library in Portland, Maine so the couple moved to the east coast.
law
00:06:30
Budget cuts in Maine left JH and her husband looking for work and she heard
from her advisor that Cassidy was looking for an editor. Cassidy hired JH without
an interview and she moved to Madison in 1975. Her husband went back to
school in the urban planning department as JH worked on finishing his
dissertation while at DARE.
00:08:25
The DARE editorial staff at that time was small: it included Cassidy, Margaret
Waterman, and JH.
00:09:22
All the fieldwork for DARE had been completed between 1965 and 1970. JH
describes the bibliographer, Goldye Mohr.
00:12:12
In 1975-76, JH, Cassidy, and Waterman worked with the letter A entries to figure
out how to gather data and put them in finished form.
00:13:14
Cassidy’s salary and some project assistant positions funded by the university. A
grant from the Office of Education funded fieldwork. The first National
Endowment for the Humanities (NEH) grant came in 1970. A very generous
anonymous donor also helped fund the project. The first Andrew Mellon
Foundation grant came in 1976. The “final” grant ran from 1992-95.
00:17:21
There was a serious funding crisis in 1996-97. The Mellon Foundation agreed to
help out if the University of Wisconsin would match its grant. JH met with Deans
Phil Certain and Chuck Read to secure the university’s contribution.
00:19:56
Phil Certain asked JH to do a self-study of DARE. The Academic Planning
Council (APC) assembled a committee to report back to the dean and the APC.
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
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The report recommended that the university ensure the project’s success. Certain
and the APC agreed to provide funds for a development director for three years
but noted that DARE would have to find its own sources of support thereafter.
00:23:20
During work on Volume I the staff began to expand. Cassidy hired Lois Wood to
do the science entries. Sheila Kolstad was hired as a general editor and then
replaced Wood.
00:27:23
JH talks about the two graduate students who worked for DARE when she first
arrived. Jeff Hirshberg worked on maps on a computer connected to the Madison
Area Computing Center. Jennifer Ellsworth listened to the field workers’ tape
recordings. Field workers asked informants to read a story that was designed to
elicit phonetic contrasts in American English. The informants were also asked to
talk about whatever interested them, so that there would be a record of their
conversational style.
00:30:30
End of side.
Tape 1/Side 2
00:30:35
Joan Hall continues to discuss the field work for DARE. There is a significant
oral history collection from the DARE informants’ stories.
00:31:13
A graduate student, Jennifer Ellsworth, listened to the tapes and made notes of
items that would be interesting to include in the dictionary. She also used
phonetic symbols for key words to help provide a database of phonetic
information for the whole country.
00:32:28
JH trained Ellsworth and Hirshberg when they became editors. JH also trained
“look-up people” who verified quotations in primary sources. She names some of
the additions to the staff.
00:33:36
In 1979 Cassidy made JH associate editor.
00:34:03
Each staff member had his or her own letter. Words that were included had to
have some regional and social distribution; many curse and slang words were
excluded because they were widely used.
00:36:11
In the early 1980s the staff realized that it had to publish in order to keep funds
coming. The original plan was to publish A-Z by 1976. JH discusses production
challenges.
00:39:37
The contract with Harvard Press for A-C stipulated that the first volume be sent
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
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on magnetic tape. A production department was created under Luanne von
Schneidemesser to manage the coding of the text.
00:43:44
JH continues to talk about the coding of the text and searchability.
00:47:56
Volume 1 was published in 1985, Volume II in 1991, Volume III in 1996.
00:48:20
JH talks more about the use of computer technology. NEH reviewers urged
DARE to think about developing an electronic edition. They contracted with
Steven Perkins to provide an electronic platform for Volume V.
00:54:21
Volume I contained letters A-C, a guide to pronunciation, a section on
language changes in American folk speech, and an informant list.
00:55:53
JH talks about the field workers’ research and confidentiality issues surrounding
the taped interviews.
00:58:26
The whole questionnaire from the interviews is also reproduced in Volume I.
01:00:00
JH discusses the debut of Volume I.
01:02:05
End of side/end of tape 1.
Tape 2/Side 1
01:02:06
Joan Hall continues to discuss the publicity surrounding Volume I of DARE.
01:04:00
Sales of Volume I were brisk and it went through five printings in the first year.
Subsequent volumes garnered less publicity.
01:05:38
Volume V is projected to be published in 2009. JH discusses the drafting and
publication process.
01:09:24
The funding situation prior to the publication of Volume I was often tenuous and
remained so throughout this history of the project. She discusses various
fundraising strategies.
01:12:22
JH talks about the project’s relationship with the UW Foundation. She and
Cassidy met with Sandy Wilcox and Marion Brown at the foundation, but funds
were not forthcoming.
01:13:32
Staff worked on entries for Volume II before the first volume was published. JH
describes changes to the staff and workflows.
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
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01:16:48
Fred Cassidy officially retired in 1978 but continued to manage the project, but
financially was essentially volunteering his time. She talks about volunteers.
01:19:00
JH describes the culture of the DARE project.
01:22:32
She relates several anecdotes to highlight the significance of DARE to American
culture. DARE is useful not only as a reference dictionary but also in the areas of
forensic linguistics, medicine, psychiatry.
01:33:20
End of side.
Tape 2/Side 2
01:33:22
Joan Hall continues to describe the various uses of DARE. She continues to
relate a story about its application in psychiatry.
01:37:14
JH disputes the claim that media and social mobility are homogenizing the
English language.
01:40:33
JH discusses the publication of Volume II, D–H, which came out in 1991.
01:41:46
JH talks about William Safire’s association with Fred Cassidy and DARE.
01:44:03
Actors and actresses have consulted DARE to practice their dialects.
01:46:18
JH discusses current shifts in pronunciation patterns in northern and southern
cities. The DARE tapes are now being used to study these pronunciation shifts.
01:52:02
JH talks about the use of computers and her own tracing of the word “scrid.”
01:57:00
JH explains why the most common regional label in DARE is South and
Midland.
South-
02:01:46
Volume III covered letters I–O (1996). Fred Cassidy had been hit by a car at the
time that Volume III came out.
02:04:14
End of side. End of tape.
Tape 3/Side 1
02:04:20
Joan Hall continues to talk about Fred Cassidy’s recovery.
02:07:18
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
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JH assumed greater responsibilities after she became associate editor in 1979.
She describes further additions to the editorial staff.
02:11:43
Volume IV covers P–Sk (2002). JH discusses the complexities of S.
02:12:55
Fred Cassidy died in 2000.
02:15:00
DARE had been part of the plan of the American Dialect Society since the
organization’s founding in 1889. Cassidy did a pilot study in Wisconsin in the late
1940s and then began looking for funding from the Office of Education for the
more general project.
02:19:50
“Word wagons” transported and housed field workers.
02:21:50
JH discusses early funding from the Office of Education, which also had to
approve the questionnaires. The office objected to only one a question pertaining
to words used for women’s breasts.
02:25:19
JH describes the social, cultural, and political climate during the time the late
1960s when fieldwork was conducted.
02:27:21
She talks about some problems towards the end of the publication process for
Volume IV (2002).
02:32:48
End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.
Second Interview Session (November 8, 2006): Tapes 4-6
Tape 4/Side 1
00:00:40
The Graduate School and the College of Letters & Science contributed financial
support to DARE.
00:03:38
Fred Cassidy sought to clarify the standing of DARE within the university. A
1989 memo from the dean’s office, which expressed concerns about the ability of
academic staff to continue DARE without faculty oversight, rankled many of the
DARE staff. Cassidy worked with Joseph Wiesenfarth, who suggested the
formation of an oversight committee (the UW-Madison Advisory Board for
DARE) to help circumvent official objections to the running of DARE by
academic staff. The committee continues to meet annually.
00:08:05
DARE carried out a self-study in 1995. The Academic Planning Council
appointed external reviewers.
00:10:25
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
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The external review concluded that UW-Madison should not become the
university that allowed DARE to fail. Dean Phillip Certain seized upon this and
provided $150,000 over three years to hire personnel for development.
00:11:15
David Simon recalls that Certain encountered criticism for allocating these funds
to DARE. The allocation was made in 1997 and Simon was hired in 1998.
00:12:22
UW
DARE staff were disappointed because they had hoped that someone from the
Foundation would be assigned to work with them.
00:13:21
David Simon had previously worked at the UW Foundation for the Campaign for
Wisconsin. He describes how he got the DARE job in 1998.
00:17:18
DS immediately had to ensure that a National Endowment for the Humanities
grant would be matched. When he arrived, DARE staff were anxious about
whether or not the project would survive.
00:21:40
DS discusses his first development efforts, which included gauging the interest in
DARE beyond the campus.
00:26:44
The DARE newsletter was revived.
00:30:35
When DS was hired, DARE was in need of several hundred thousand dollars.
00:31:16
End of side.
Tape 4/Side 2
00:31:28
Joan Hall continues to describe the development needs of DARE and David
Simon’s early development work.
00:32:17
DS succeeded in securing funds for DARE during his first year. The secretary of
the Mellon Foundation, Richard Ekman, was a key ally. DS asked Ekman to be on
the board of visitors.
00:38:19
DS also negotiated for support with Joseph Meisel, who succeeded Ekman as
secretary of the Mellon Foundation. Numerous private contributions were crucial
to convincing the Mellon Foundation to continue to support DARE.
00:43:24
The DARE staff originally asked the Mellon Foundation for a million-dollar gift
to be paid out over the course of five years. DARE ended up securing a 5-year,
$500,000 gift from Mellon—a contribution that was matched one-to-one by NEH.
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
8
00:48:35
JH and DS discuss other funders to the dictionary.
00:50:22
DARE recognizes donors in its newsletter and in the acknowledgments section of
each volume of the dictionary. DARE also began an “adopt a letter” program for
major donors.
00:59:22
End of side. End of tape.
Tape 5/Side 1
00:59:50
Joan Hall and David Simon discuss the talks about the origins of the DARE board
of visitors.
01:03:16
One of the first members of the board of visitors included Robert Moore, who had
been a project assistant at DARE. DS discusses another early board member,
Cynthia Moore (no relation to Robert) who had no previous ties to the dictionary.
01:06:29
DS tells the story of how Morris Goodman, a professor from Evanston, IL came
to be on the board. John Shea, who was Goodman’s financial adviser, also came
to the board.
01:11:06
The first board of visitors meeting was held in September 1999 and new members
were added over the months and years. JH recalls how Robert Lange first
suggested that Bill Safire be asked to join the board.
01:013:05
JH talks about Greg Alfus, an English professor who was also an early member
of the DARE Board of Visitors.
01:14:58
Other board members such as Bill Safire, James J. Kilpatrick, Marianne Means,
Jacquelyn Mitchard, and David Maraniss supplied publicity for DARE. There are
currently nineteen members.
01:16:24
DS describes his recruitment of best-selling author Simon Winchester to the
board.
01:22:50
The DARE board meets frequently, not in Madison, but in New York City,
Washington, D.C., and other large cities where members lived and worked. Most
board members have no ties to Wisconsin.
01:26:19
DS describes the board’s effectiveness in raising money for DARE, especially
with the Carnegie Corporation.
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
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01:30:48
End of side.
Tape 5/Side 2
01:30:58
David Simon continues to discuss his relationship with Vartan Gregorian and the
Carnegie Corporation of New York.
01:32:01
DS joined the UW Foundation full-time in 2000 but continued to work for DARE.
His job at the Foundation offered him many resources for searching for funds for
DARE.
01:34:25
DARE often did not meet foundations’ gift-giving criteria; therefore DS had to
make personal appeals to foundation presidents, as was the case with Gregorian
and the Carnegie gift.
01:36:01
JH describes the structure of board meetings. DS discusses some of the first board
meetings. DS wanted to make the meetings fun events and he scheduled outings
for members in addition to the meetings.
01:41:00
JH and DS talk about their efforts to communicate with members between the
meetings.
01:43:29
An NEH program officer suggested to JH that DARE explore the creation of an
electronic version of the dictionary.
01:48:18
Board members were crucial in supporting and funding the electronic version.
The board felt that creating an electronic version would assist DARE in securing
financial support from NEH.
01:50:40
The DARE staff ultimately opted not to work with the electronic system to create
Volume V.
01:54:34
The electronic version has made DARE more amenable to searching by staff
members and ultimately by the public. The Oxford English Dictionary Online was
the model for the DARE version.
01:57:20
JH discusses the projected completion of Volume V in late 2009; this date would
require all entries to be written by mid-2008.
02:00:35
Adequate financial support to complete Volume V has not yet been secured. Jon
Sorenson has succeeded David Simon as director of development.
Joan Hall, David Simon (#788)
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02:01:50
End of side. End of tape.
Tape 6/Side 1
02:02:08
Joan Hall continues to discuss the projected completion of Volume V of DARE.
She talks about the dedication of staff to the project and some of the staff
members who have worked on the project for most of its existence, like Sheila
Kolstad.
02:06:55
David Simon describes the dedication and quality of staff at DARE and his
perspectives on the project, both personal and in relation to fundraising.
02:11:20
End of side. End of tape. End of interview.
END