Name__________________________________
Ms. Price
AP Comp
2013-2014
Narrative Socratic Seminar Listening Notes
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Categorize the content into
bigger questions or
categories as they emerge.
Post-seminar comments
should be in a different
color.
Speaker’s
Name
What is the purpose of
“Rainy Mountain”?
dale
Erin
Moira
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
CD: Comment that disagrees
?: Question posed
T: Transition used
QT: Quote and page #
SC: Synthesizing comment
Summ: Summarizing comment
CC: Clarifying comment
CQ: Clarifying question
OT: Off-topic
AT: Abrupt transition
MR: Misreading
Inv: General Invitation
SpecInv: Specific Inv
Question: purpose of rainy mountain?
CC: Juxtaposition of the place and the human to express Godlike feelings
CD/Q:The way he described the knoll, to “lose your sense of proportion”
It’s more that humans are smaller
Challenge/Quote: Why would he say “One hill, one tree one man”?
Rebecca
Moira
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Justify: How small man is compared to how big nature is
MY OPINION: What I Think
Connections I make
Questions I raise
Do I agree/disagree? Why?
Engage here with the
comments and evaluate what
you hear according to the text.
Post-seminar comments should
be in a different color.
CQ: What does visual imagery have to do with that?
Andrea P
Moira
CC: He describes the hill in great detail, at the same time he feels like
he’s so alone in this landscape
CA/Q: I agree with Moira, it’s something small, the hill, but the
description makes it seems bigger than it is “the steaming foliage”
Jessica
Shannon
Erin
Moira
Q/CQ: I was getting a negative feeling from the “grasshopper popping
up to sting” What do you guys think about that?
CQ/Q: I think he’s just describing the environment, I’m going back to
what Moira was saying. I’m not sure I see your point. How do you do
you explain “imagination..creation”?
CC: I think it’s like we are one little dot in this map of time. When I hear
Creation, it sounds like something that makes humans really small
CA: “Creation” began with this landscape, not with humans
Jessica
What’s the connection
between “Two Views of a
River” and “Rainy
Mountain”?
Bryan
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Name__________________________________
Ms. Price
AP Comp
2013-2014
CC: He described the weather negatively because he and his people are
experienced with the area. Like “Two Views of A River”, after he’s been
with it, he sees the dangers of it, which is what he and his people are to
the landscape
Narrative Socratic Seminar Listening Notes
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Categorize the content into
bigger questions or
categories as they emerge.
Post-seminar comments
should be in a different
color.
Speaker’s
Name
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
CD: Comment that disagrees
?: Question posed
T: Transition used
QT: Quote and page #
SC: Synthesizing comment
Summ: Summarizing comment
CC: Clarifying comment
CQ: Clarifying question
OT: Off-topic
AT: Abrupt transition
MR: Misreading
Inv: General Invitation
SpecInv: Specific Inv
CQ/ Quote: What do you mean by “he and his people are to the
landscape” in relation to Twain?
Shannon
Bryan
CC: For Twain, he was a steamboat captain, and now he sees the
dangers. In Rainy Mountain, it’s both the speaker and his people, they
also see danger in the land
CD: It still seems like he sees the beauty in Rainy Mountain even though
they also see the danger
Dale
CC: In Twain, it’s like once you’ve mastered the trade, you lose sight of
the beauty.
Jessica
Andrea
Inv: We’re all on the same page, Ysa, what do you think the purpose is of
“Two Views of a River”?
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I’m not sure
Ysa
Danny
CC: I’m not sure if I’m right, but I think it’s that once you get familiar
with something, you lose appreciation for that thing
MY OPINION: What I Think
Connections I make
Questions I raise
Do I agree/disagree? Why?
Engage here with the
comments and evaluate what
you hear according to the text.
Post-seminar comments should
be in a different color.
That’s the thematic message. What do you think the purpose is?
Ms. Price
Shannon
Dale
Shannon
Erin
Q/CC: For “Two views of A River” and “Rainy Mountain” they both focus
on beauty but they have different takes on the relationship between
knowing something well, “Every trifling feature” and things getting
more or less beautiful. Twain thinks that once you lose intrigue or
mystery, beauty lessens. Momaday thinks the longer you look at it, the
bigger and more mysterious it gets, and it becomes beautiful like God’s
creation.
CQ/Q: I agree with you Shannon – What do you think about “Your
imagination comes to life, and this you think is where Creation was
begun”? Is this the quote you’re relating to thematic message?
CC: I think so, because of the capital “C” which makes it holy.
CQ: You were talking about the tone of each piece?
Socratic Seminar Listening Notes
CA: Comment that agrees
CD: Comment that disagrees
?: Question posed
T: Transition used
QT: Quote and page #
SC: Synthesizing comment
Summ: Summarizing comment
CC: Clarifying comment
CQ: Clarifying question
OT: Off-topic
AT: Abrupt transition
MR: Misreading
Inv: General Invitation
SpecInv: Specific Inv
CC: I was talking about the themes
Shannon
Inv: I see how these connect – but Chris, how does this connect to “Sun
City”
Rebecca
Chris
Erin
Chris
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CC: I think it connects because of the perspective. Sun City becomes
creepy because it’s an outsider looking and you think it’s out of the
ordinary, Momaday is thinking of protections and all the dangers of the
landscape, Twain is also thinking about protection and survival
CQ: Since you described the different perspectives of beauty, what does
that show us about the world?
CC: I feel like for Twain, it’s so beautiful, but he always has to think of
his job. Like in New York City, you might see beauty everywhere, but
then you might turn the wrong corner and see danger
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Speaker’s
Name
Andrea
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
Summ: Summarizing comment
CD: Comment that disagrees
CC: Clarifying comment
?: Question posed
CQ: Clarifying question
T: Transition used
OT: Off-topic
QT: Quote and page #
AT: Abrupt transition
SC: Synthesizing comment
MR: Misreading
CQ: Are you talking about how perspectives of beauty change?
CQ: If it’s about perspective, why does the author spend so much time
describing isolation of Sun City?
Moira
I’m not sure
Chris
CQ: Do you think another theme could be isolation and nature?
Moira
Chris
Andrea
Shannon
CC: I think Twain is isolated on the boat on the river, for Sun City, the
author says they are 25 miles away from the nearest city, and the
Kiowas are geographically isolated
Q/CQ: “Loneliness is an aspect of the land” Is he talking about the
people? Or the land?
Q/CQ: I think it’s both because of “one tree...one man”. I wanted to go
back to Moira – Were you talking about isolation in nature? Or Isolation
and nature?
CC: Isolation and nature
Moira
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Name__________________________________
Ms. Price
MY OPINION: What I Think
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Speaker’s
Name
Erin
Dale
Randy
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
Summ: Summarizing comment
CD: Comment that disagrees
CC: Clarifying comment
?: Question posed
CQ: Clarifying question
T: Transition used
OT: Off-topic
QT: Quote and page #
AT: Abrupt transition
SC: Synthesizing comment
MR: Misreading
Inv: Another possibility is isolation of humans in nature. Randy, do you
think isolation is a theme and why?
CQ: theme of all three?
CC: I think it’s only for Twain and Momaday...actually all of them. In Sun
City, the narrator talks about how everything is perfect, and everybody
is isolated in their own world
CQ: Can you find a quote?
Erin
Q/CC: Like Shannon said, “one tree, one man”
Randy
CQ: Can you justify isolation for Twain?
Shannon
Randy
Justify: It could be because there’s no one else in the story, he’s just
there with the river.
Dale
Inv: Since we’ve established there’s isolation in Sun City, Ysa, do you
think that’s a bad thing?
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Name__________________________________
Ms. Price
MY OPINION: What I Think
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Speaker’s
Name
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
CD: Comment that disagrees
?: Question posed
T: Transition used
QT: Quote and page #
SC: Synthesizing comment
CQ: What do you mean
MY OPINION: What I Think
Summ: Summarizing comment
CC: Clarifying comment
CQ: Clarifying question
OT: Off-topic
AT: Abrupt transition
MR: Misreading
Ysa
CQ: It’s artificial and separate from the rest of the world, is that a bad
thing? In your opinion?
Dale
CC: I don’t think it’s bad for the old people, it’s sheltering them from the
reality of life and death and then they don’t have
Ysa
Inv: Danny, what’s the purpose of Sun City?
Shannon
Danny
CC: to show that even if you try to make something perfect, it may not
be the way you want it to be because it’s isolated
CQ: What do you mean by “not perfect”?
Chris
Danny
Ysa
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Name__________________________________
Ms. Price
CQ: Who wants to be alone all their lives? It’s not perfection. Does that
the fact that there’s a clearly defined perspective in Twain and
Momaday but it’s unclear in Sun City impact the story?
CC: In Sun City, it’s third person, so that distances the author and the
reader, which shows the isolation too
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Speaker’s
Name
Dale
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
Summ: Summarizing comment
CD: Comment that disagrees
CC: Clarifying comment
?: Question posed
CQ: Clarifying question
T: Transition used
OT: Off-topic
QT: Quote and page #
AT: Abrupt transition
SC: Synthesizing comment
MR: Misreading
CA: Also, in Sun City, it seems like there’s two perspectives. In the
beginning the author is outside the town, and in the middle he’s actually
there
CC: Sun City actually is in first person, “told me before I went”
Shannon
Ysa
CQ: So how are they different?
CC: First person is “I” Third person you don’t know who’s talking
Shannon
Erin
CA: I agree that the points of view impacts the reader’s understanding
of the story. I still think they’re all similar, the way they understand
each story
CQ: So you’re saying it doesn’t impact the reader?
Danny
Andrea
Jessica
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Name__________________________________
Ms. Price
CQ: We can tell what the narrator is saying by the tone. What is the tone
of Sun City
CC:It feels objective, whereas the other two feel more personal. Sun City
is saying what the city is like, how self-contained it is, the artificial
beauty
MY OPINION: What I Think
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Speaker’s
Name
Shannon
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
Summ: Summarizing comment
CD: Comment that disagrees
CC: Clarifying comment
?: Question posed
CQ: Clarifying question
T: Transition used
OT: Off-topic
QT: Quote and page #
AT: Abrupt transition
SC: Synthesizing comment
MR: Misreading
Q/CQ: What do you think of the repetition of rarely seeing “anyone
under 60” is that people who live there or also the visitors?
Moira
CC/Q: It’s an old city, and the people themselves don’t venture out,
“They rarely leave the green white developments” which lends itself to
the isolation.
CQ: I get that part, but does that mean that no one comes to visit either?
Which is she trying to emphasize?
Shannon
Rebecca
Q/CC: I think that she is trying to say that no one isolated “25 miles
from Sarasota...away from downtown”. I don’t think they even want
visitors
Chris
CD: What about the people who work there at hospitals and stores?
Could it be that everybody who lives there is over 60? I don’t think she’s
saying that literally everybody is old.
Dale
CA: I agree with Chris, it seems like he’s talking about the people who
live there, generally it’s just showing it’s a retirement place
Erin
CQ: I really was confused – Can anyone explain what Sun City is really
about?
CQ: The purpose? Or general main idea
Shannon
*Continue on binder paper.
Name__________________________________
Ms. Price
MY OPINION: What I Think
Essential Questions,
Themes, Patterns
Speaker’s
Name
Erin
Comment Code and Details
CA: Comment that agrees
Summ: Summarizing comment
CD: Comment that disagrees
CC: Clarifying comment
?: Question posed
CQ: Clarifying question
T: Transition used
OT: Off-topic
QT: Quote and page #
AT: Abrupt transition
SC: Synthesizing comment
MR: Misreading
CC: The purpose is creating communities and shelter and isolating
people from the reality of life and death
CC: The purpose is why the author wrote it. You sound like you’re
actually closer to the main idea.
Andrea
Dale
CC: It seems like the author, it makes me feel sad thinking about it, all of
the elder people aren’t doing much, they’re just playing golf and
relaxing. It seems like they’re happy though. The author is trying to
make a negative feeling about it
CQ: Do you have evidence for the residents being happy?
Shannon
CC: Well, they don’t leave, so they must be happy
Dale
Shannon
Andrea
Shannon
Rebecca
CD: Maybe they have nowhere else to go
CA: I agree, there’s no where that describes how anyone is feeling. What
is the purpose of not emphasizing anyone’s feelings? Emphasizing the
land over the perspective
Q/CC: I think it’s to emphasize how artificial the landscape, “brown
trampled plains” around it
CC: I still think the overall theme is still beauty. It’s saying the same
thing as Two Views. At first it seems like a quiet little town, but once
you learn more about it seems isolated and fake. So they’re both talking
MY OPINION: What I Think
about the loss of beauty over time.
*Continue on binder paper.
Name__________________________________
Ms. Price