1
RESUMED
2
MR O'BRYAN:
3
Mr Allman.
I would just remind you you’re still
on oath, Mr Allman.
4
MR ALLMAN:
5
MR O'BRYAN:
6
MR HILL:
Yes.
Thank you.
Mr Hill
Mr Allman, just so it’s clear to all, did you cause
7
to be paid out of the Silverton Primary School bank
8
account any moneys for our own personal expenses?
9
MR ALLMAN:
10
MR HILL:
11
MR ALLMAN:
12
MR HILL:
13
MR ALLMAN:
Never.
Or for wine?
Yes.
And what quantities of wine?
I can’t recall the quantities.
It would have been
14
to the tune of – there were some staff functions in the
15
office of Government School Education with 150 people.
16
So there were a couple of occasions.
17
18
19
20
MR HILL:
those functions.
MR ALLMAN:
It certainly would have been dozens of bottles,
but not - - -
21
MR HILL:
22
MR ALLMAN:
23
MR HILL:
24
MR ALLMAN:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR ALLMAN:
27
So there would be quite a lot of wine required for
Yes.
Yes.
And tens of thousands of dollars?
No.
No?
No.
I would say two or three thousand, maybe
4000.
28
MR HILL:
29
MR ALLMAN:
30
MR HILL:
So rather modestly priced bottles of wine.
Just regular table wine.
It was nothing - - -
Not $83 bottles of wine?
370
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR ALLMAN:
2
MR HILL:
3
MR ALLMAN:
4
5
6
No.
And where was the wine purchased from?
I think it was the Redback Hotel in Flemington
Road.
MR HILL:
Did you have any dealings with Trembath and Taylor,
wine merchants?
7
MR ALLMAN:
8
MR HILL:
9
No.
No.
For whom a man by the name of Paul, who was the son
of Peter Paul, worked.
10
MR ALLMAN:
11
MR HILL:
12
MR ALLMAN:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR ALLMAN:
15
MR HILL:
No.
You know Peter Paul, of course.
I do.
You know him as a school principal.
Yes.
Yes.
As we understand the evidence that you gave
16
prior to lunch, Mr Darrell Fraser also used the Silverton
17
Primary School as a banker school.
18
19
MR ALLMAN:
He did, but I was ultimately responsible for
activating any activity at Silverton Primary School.
20
MR HILL:
21
MR ALLMAN:
Right.
But, yes, he did request on occasion that
22
Silverton Primary School funds be used for particular
23
purposes.
24
MR HILL:
25
MR ALLMAN:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR ALLMAN:
28
29
30
Now, his role at that time?
Deputy secretary of Government School Education.
And you were, what?
I was the executive director or general manager of
Education Partnerships.
MR HILL:
Right.
And in terms of hierarchy, was he at that
time higher in the hierarchy than you?
371
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR ALLMAN:
2
MR HILL:
He was my boss.
He was your boss.
So your boss knew that you had –
3
and it’s an awful expression but I can’t think of a
4
better one at the moment.
5
central funds out at the Silverton Primary School.
6
MR ALLMAN:
7
MR HILL:
8
9
10
MR ALLMAN:
12
MR ALLMAN:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR ALLMAN:
No.
He asked me if I could facilitate the payment
And what was that account?
I can remember one occasion.
Yes.
That there was a request to pay Quest Apartments
for a period of time.
16
MR HILL:
17
MR ALLMAN:
18
MR HILL:
Quest Apartments is akin to a hotel chain.
That’s right.
And can you recall the amount of the bill, or the
invoice I should call it?
20
MR ALLMAN:
21
MR HILL:
22
MR ALLMAN:
23
MR HILL:
24
MR ALLMAN:
25
And he requested you, on occasion, for permission,
of an account, which I directly did with the school.
MR HILL:
19
Yes.
in effect, to use some of those funds for his purposes.
11
15
Your boss knew that you parked
No, I can’t.
It would have been in the thousands.
Yes.
Yes.
And which Quest Apartment?
I don’t know but I suspect it was around Glen
Waverley, or in the eastern region.
26
MR HILL:
27
MR ALLMAN:
28
MR HILL:
29
MR ALLMAN:
30
MR HILL:
Yes.
And had there been a conference - - -
No.
- - - in that region?
No.
Who had stayed at the Quest Apartment?
372
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
3
4
5
MR ALLMAN:
A newly appointed regional director for eastern
region.
MR HILL:
How long had he stayed at the Quest Apartment to
build up a bill of many thousands of dollars?
MR ALLMAN:
If memory serves me correctly, he stayed there for
6
a number of months.
7
don’t know, maybe two months or three months.
8
MR HILL:
9
MR ALLMAN:
10
He was entitled to stay there for, I
Yes.
But he over-stayed his time at the apartment
because his family was delayed moving from overseas.
11
MR HILL:
12
MR ALLMAN:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR ALLMAN:
15
MR HILL:
I’m sorry, what was his name?
Mark De’Ath.
Can you spell that?
D-e, apostrophe, capital A-t-h.
And were you given an explanation by your boss, Mr
16
Fraser, as to why he wanted that invoice paid in this
17
method?
18
MR ALLMAN:
19
MR HILL:
20
MR ALLMAN:
Yes.
What was that explanation?
That Mark’s family were delayed, that he had
21
already exhausted his allocation of funds that were
22
available to him to stay in temporary accommodation.
23
MR HILL:
24
MR ALLMAN:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR ALLMAN:
When you say “he” had exhausted his funds - - Mark had exhausted - - Yes.
- - - the funds that were available to him to stay
27
in temporary accommodation.
28
he stay there for another month or two until his family
29
could be reunited.
30
MR HILL:
He requested of Darrell that
And permission was granted.
I understand all of that.
Thank you.
373
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
But did Mr
J. ALLMAN
1
Fraser give you any explanation as to why he, Fraser,
2
wanted you to pay the money out of Silverton?
3
MR ALLMAN:
4
MR HILL:
5
MR ALLMAN:
Because he and I did discuss the matter.
Yes.
And the reality is that it was either do it
6
outside of the guidelines or knock him back, and suggest
7
to him that the payment could not be made, even though he
8
did have extenuating circumstances with his family.
9
Darrell and I both agreed it was reasonable in the
10
11
And
circumstances to allow Mike to stay there.
MR HILL:
So the payment was made to in effect disguise the
12
fact that he was being paid outside of the guidelines for
13
accommodation expenses?
14
MR ALLMAN:
In all of my communication with Silverton Primary
15
School for such matters, it is clear that I was
16
requesting – I would have said “This is for a senior
17
executive who has relocated to Victoria.
18
account on my behalf.”
19
MR HILL:
Please pay the
I understand all of that, Mr Allman, but the
20
question is perhaps a bit more subtle than that.
21
payment could have been made out of central funds, yes?
22
There would be nothing stopping Mr Darrell Fraser, a
23
deputy secretary, going to the finance section and making
24
a request that they pay, out of central funds, this
25
accommodation bill incurred at Quest Apartments.
26
27
MR ALLMAN:
Even for a
deputy secretary there are procedures that are followed.
28
MR HILL:
29
MR ALLMAN:
30
It’s not quite as simple as that.
The
What are the procedures that are followed?
For an allocation of funds for a bill like that to
be paid.
374
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR HILL:
2
MR ALLMAN:
3
MR HILL:
4
MR ALLMAN:
What are the procedures?
Well, the briefing would be done.
Yes.
And so on.
And there’s no rightful justification
5
for the additional payment to be made apart from the
6
goodwill that existed between the new employee and his
7
costs.
8
MR HILL:
Right.
So the method that was employed to pay the
9
bill was to short-circuit the legitimate processes that
10
would have had to have been gone through if the payment
11
was to be made from central funds?
12
MR ALLMAN:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR ALLMAN:
15
MR HILL:
16
And to avoid the scrutiny of central office?
Yes.
So in that sense it was being hidden;
the payment –
albeit that you say there was some transparency.
17
MR ALLMAN:
18
MR HILL:
19
MR ALLMAN:
20
MR HILL:
21
MR ALLMAN:
22
MR HILL:
23
Yes.
Yes.
But that was the reason - - Correct.
- - - that it was paid in this circuitous method?
Yes.
Yes.
And was that the only time that Mr Fraser
requested of you funds from Silverton?
24
MR ALLMAN:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR ALLMAN:
No.
What were the other occasions?
Another example is there was an event in Victoria
27
called the Big Day Out whereby 2000 principals were
28
invited to a full day conference.
29
latter part of 2010.
30
centre, down past Southbank.
One occurred in the
It was down at the convention
375
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR HILL:
2
MR ALLMAN:
Yes.
The – it was a million dollar-plus event for one
3
single day, with a 2000 participants there.
4
six months of work and lead-up, but in the 24 hours prior
5
to the event volunteers were called across the office of
6
government schools and beyond to assist with the, they
7
used to call it the bump-in and the bump-out;
8
logistics and so on.
9
10
MR HILL:
MR ALLMAN:
It involved
all of the
Sorry, could you just explain about the bump-out?
Well, the organisation of a conference prior to it
11
opening.
12
conference to begin at 9 am, round figures, and to stay
13
there after 3.30 pm until about 6 pm to clear stuff out.
14
And so there was 60 or 70 people volunteered.
15
people, Darrell and I discussed, and he decided to
16
arrange for drinks and afternoon tea at the venue, which
17
occurred between about 5.30 and 6.30 on that day.
18
MR HILL:
19
MR ALLMAN:
20
MR HILL:
21
MR ALLMAN:
22
MR HILL:
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
So people arrive there at 5 am for the
Those
For 2000 people?
No, sorry, 50 – 60 or 70 - - Just the volunteers.
The volunteers only were invited.
Yes.
To come to a particular section of the hotel that
adjoins the convention centre.
25
MR HILL:
26
MR ALLMAN:
Yes.
Darrell made speeches and so on, and thanked
27
people, and so on and so forth.
It was a reasonably
28
quick event.
29
office of government schools, it didn’t fit within the
30
framework of what had been approved for the Big Day Out
When that account was sent through to the
376
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
event.
2
MR HILL:
3
MR ALLMAN:
4
MR HILL:
5
MR ALLMAN:
6
The guidelines.
Yes.
And so that was another bill that I was – I agreed
I would send to Silverton.
7
MR HILL:
8
MR ALLMAN:
9
MR HILL:
10
The guidelines.
MR ALLMAN:
Are there any others that you can think of?
That - - That Mr Fraser had a hand in?
Look, I think there was some technology grants and
11
partnership grants to schools.
12
the Maryborough precinct.
13
that is because I didn’t know much about the Maryborough
14
precinct, but Darrell did.
15
MR HILL:
16
MR ALLMAN:
17
MR HILL:
18
I remember one being to
The only reason I remember
So that was another example.
Could I summarise your evidence in this sense - - Yes.
- - - as we understand it, it seems that the banker
school at Silverton - - -
19
MR ALLMAN:
20
MR HILL:
Yes.
- - - in your experience was used when you didn’t
21
want scrutiny from head office in respect to a particular
22
transaction.
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
MR HILL:
I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that.
But the two examples you have given us in respect of
25
Mr Fraser are quite clearly examples of payments being
26
made outside the guidelines and where scrutiny was to be
27
avoided by – or from head office, yes?
28
MR ALLMAN:
What I agree with in that statement is that the
29
banker school at Silverton was to allow payments outside
30
of the guidelines.
377
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR HILL:
And to hide the payments from those who would either
2
enforce the guidelines, or be interested in ensuring that
3
the guidelines were complied with?
4
MR ALLMAN:
5
MR HILL:
Yes.
Yes.
Now, moving back to Mr Nino Napoli, in terms
6
of the hierarchy in say 2007 – I know it’s a few years to
7
think back now, eight years, but in terms of the
8
hierarchy, were you more senior than he?
9
MR ALLMAN:
10
MR HILL:
11
MR ALLMAN:
12
MR HILL:
13
And you weren’t his direct line manager?
No.
Indeed, you weren’t even in the line of management
for him because he was in a different area?
14
MR ALLMAN:
15
MR HILL:
16
Yes.
Correct.
Yes.
But clearly you were more senior to him in
terms of position held?
17
MR ALLMAN:
18
MR HILL:
19
MR ALLMAN:
On paper, yes.
On paper?
Well, can I just ask you what that means?
Well, Nino had a -
the hierarchy is director,
20
executive director, deputy secretary.
21
deputy secretary, I was an executive director, Nino was a
22
director.
23
Nino had a very senior job.
24
the most senior director in the department but, you know,
25
I mean that’s my - my perception.
26
27
MR HILL:
Darrell was a
But in terms of position, authority and so on,
Right.
I would say he was probably
But in terms of importance, does that mean
that his position was more important than yours?
28
MR ALLMAN:
29
MR HILL:
30
MR ALLMAN:
Probably about the same.
Right.
Yes.
378
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR HILL:
2
MR ALLMAN:
3
MR HILL:
And you didn’t feel subservient to him in any way?
Never.
Never.
There’s a couple of emails that we would
4
like to take you to that might assist this investigation.
5
Before I do that, do you recall the name Ian Maddison?
6
MR ALLMAN:
7
MR HILL:
8
9
MR ALLMAN:
MR HILL:
11
MR ALLMAN:
13
14
15
16
17
18
MR HILL:
And in what position, or positions as you remember?
I’m going back to about 2002, 3.
He was manager
And when he left the department, did he become a
private consultant, or a consultant?
MR ALLMAN:
When he left the department, he became an employee
of a group called Blue Earth.
MR HILL:
And did they or he deal with the Department of
Education?
MR ALLMAN:
20
MR HILL:
21
MR ALLMAN:
22
MR HILL:
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
MR HILL:
They did.
And did they deal in a product called Tiger Turf?
No.
Right.
Was Tiger Turf something complete different?
Yes.
Yes.
Was he, at any stage, involved with Tiger
Turf?
26
MR ALLMAN:
27
MR HILL:
28
MR ALLMAN:
29
MR HILL:
30
Yes.
of school sport and physical education.
19
25
Had he been a person, at one stage at least, who
worked for the department?
10
12
Yes.
Yes.
When was that?
Many years after he worked for Blue Earth.
Right.
So he went from Blue Earth to somewhere or -
- 379
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR ALLMAN:
2
MR HILL:
3
MR ALLMAN:
4
MR HILL:
5
MR ALLMAN:
7
did.
8
MR HILL:
9
MR ALLMAN:
11
MR HILL:
MR ALLMAN:
13
MR HILL:
And the department dealt with Tiger Turf through Ian
Not the department so much, but individual schools
Individual schools.
Yes.
And was he a regular luncheon companion, Ian
He was a luncheon companion, regular.
Well, wasn’t there a regular lunch at The Waiters?
Was it The Waiters Club?
15
MR ALLMAN:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR ALLMAN:
18
yes.
19
MR HILL:
20
MR ALLMAN:
21
MR HILL:
22
Yes.
Maddison, of yours and - - -
12
14
Eventually to Tiger Turf.
Maddison?
6
10
Yes.
Correct.
Was there a regular lunch at The Waiters Club?
As regular as in the context of every few weeks,
Yes.
Yes, yes.
No, I’m not suggesting every day.
But these were
quite long lunches, weren’t they?
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
MR HILL:
25
MR ALLMAN:
26
MR HILL:
No.
No?
No.
All right.
And those that would attend those
27
lunches, in particular, were Nino Napoli, yourself, Mr
28
Rosewarne and Mr Maddison.
29
MR ALLMAN:
30
MR HILL:
At different times, yes.
And - - 380
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
3
4
MR ALLMAN:
than not, there were – there was a subset of that group.
MR HILL:
MR ALLMAN:
6
MR HILL:
7
Yes?
8
MR ALLMAN:
9
MR HILL:
11
MR ALLMAN:
MR HILL:
13
MR ALLMAN:
14
MR HILL:
15
MR ALLMAN:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR ALLMAN:
18
MR HILL:
Yes.
With others such as Gibbs and Evans and Bennett.
The last name, sorry, I couldn’t hear.
Bennett?
No, I don’t know of anybody with the surname
All right.
Okay.
But the other names are - - -
John Evans, yes.
John Evans, thank you.
Yes.
MR ALLMAN:
21
MR HILL:
Greg.
Greg.
And those lunches were throughout, say, 2007?
I suspect so.
And at that time was Mr Ian Maddison working for
It was at about that time.
Yes.
Can you – can you say now, from your memory,
as to which schools Tiger Turf was laid at?
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
MR HILL:
25
MR ALLMAN:
I would say several hundred or - - Several hundred?
Yes.
Maybe – but dozens and dozens and dozens of
26
schools.
27
artificial grass at that time.
28
29
30
And Gibbs was – was?
Tiger Turf?
20
22
Would you agree?
Bennett.
12
19
The core group though seemed to be Allman, Napoli,
Maddison and Rosewarne.
5
10
Sometimes it was the whole group but, more often
MR HILL:
Every school in the state was looking at
So it was a pretty lucrative contract for Tiger
Turf.
MR ALLMAN:
Well, there was some pretty strong competitors in
381
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
the market, I recall.
2
MR HILL:
3
MR ALLMAN:
4
MR HILL:
Yes.
So it was a lucrative, sought after contract.
Yes.
Yes.
Could we have page 60 on the screen, please.
5
Actually, I’m sorry, page 64.
The second of the two
6
emails on that page, which is the first one in time, is
7
from Nino Napoli – I’m sorry, from Guss Napoli to Nino
8
Napoli stating:
9
Nino, the letter we sent John Allman in relation to the
10
seeding grant for the soccer program was forwarded to
11
Dianne Peck, acting general manager, student learning
12
programs division.
13
are unable to provide the funds and that we should look
14
at using either our SRP or leading school funds – schools
15
funds.
16
committed these funds.
17
money?
18
Guss Napoli was the brother – or is the brother of Nino
19
Napoli.
20
MR ALLMAN:
21
MR HILL:
She has sent Jeff a letter that they
This is really not an option as we’ve already
Is there another way to get this
Let me know.
Yes.
Yes.
And does that email refresh your memory as to,
22
at least in part, what’s being discussed between the two
23
brothers?
24
MR ALLMAN:
25
MR HILL:
Can you repeat that question, please?
Does that email from one brother to the other
26
refresh your memory as to what is being discussed in that
27
email?
28
MR ALLMAN:
29
MR HILL:
30
MR ALLMAN:
I don’t recall ever seeing that email come to me.
All right.
No, I understand that.
Yes.
382
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
3
MR HILL:
But what about the – what about the subject matter?
That is, a seeding grant for soccer programs.
MR ALLMAN:
I answered this question at the private hearing.
4
My understanding is that that would have come to me, and
5
then my executive assistant would have forwarded it on to
6
Dianne Peck.
7
8
9
10
11
MR HILL:
So what it’s saying is that you were sent an
application for a grant.
MR ALLMAN:
MR HILL:
Yes.
And it seems that your executive interceded and sent
it on to Dianne Peck.
12
MR ALLMAN:
13
MR HILL:
14
So I understand what that’s saying there.
Correct.
Yes.
That’s what I suspect happened.
Because you have no recollection of the
seeding grant.
15
MR ALLMAN:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR ALLMAN:
18
MR HILL:
No.
Or why it would be sent to you.
Correct.
Yes.
And then if we look at the second of the two
19
emails in time, that is the one at the top of the page,
20
this is from Nino back to his brother, Guss:
21
Don’t worry.
22
Again, that doesn’t ring a bell with you in any way?
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
MR HILL:
John stuffed up.
Will be fixed.
Nino.
No.
Then if we could have page 60 on the screen, please.
25
Here’s Nino Napoli emailing you:
26
Why did you give it to Dianne?
27
what –
28
“no” it is, but I think he meant “so what now”.
29
Why did you give it to Dianne?
30
what now?
You’ve fucked it.
You’ve fucked it.
So
So
Nino.
383
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
3
Can you throw any light on that?
MR ALLMAN:
came to me.
4
MR HILL:
5
MR ALLMAN:
6
7
It’s only the vaguest of memories that email had
2007 is a long time ago.
Yes, I understand.
But at that time, I had nothing to do with soccer
or partnerships or anything, so - - MR HILL:
Exactly.
So why would someone who is neither your
8
manager nor in your line of command be rebuking you in
9
such terms in an email?
10
MR ALLMAN:
11
MR HILL:
It’s pretty strong - - -
Well - - - - - strong language to say that another executive,
12
a high level executive, that “you’ve fucked it”.
13
what it means - - -
14
MR ALLMAN:
We know
I know what it means but strong language, maybe
15
inappropriate language, I’m not sure, but I didn’t – I
16
wouldn’t read that and feel intimidated or insulted.
17
MR HILL:
18
MR ALLMAN:
19
MR HILL:
20
MR ALLMAN:
22
MR HILL:
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
MR HILL:
25
MR ALLMAN:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR ALLMAN:
28
MR HILL:
30
But you don’t even recall getting it?
I don’t.
No.
And what you say is, well, you didn’t have
anything to do with soccer programs or the like.
21
29
Right.
At that time, no.
At any time whilst you were at the department?
Yes.
When?
When I was in education partnerships.
Four Diegos Proprietary Limited?
I recall that name.
Yes.
Did you pay money to Four Diegos Proprietary
Limited?
MR ALLMAN:
I don’t know.
I can’t recall but if I did, I know
384
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
what it was for.
MR HILL:
3
b-a?
4
MR ALLMAN:
Did you have any dealings with a Ralph Barba, B-a-r-
I don’t recall ever meeting Ralph in person but I
5
did see him once at the soccer with – when I was with
6
Nino on the one occasion I went to the soccer with Nino,
7
and Ralph Barba was interviewing players in the middle of
8
the ground for a radio station and Nino told me he was
9
his brother-in-law.
10
11
12
MR HILL:
Yes.
And that doesn’t bring to mind whether you had
any dealings with him or his company?
MR ALLMAN:
I know that when I was in education partnerships,
13
we had a soccer A-League partnership with a number of
14
schools and part of that program was the development of
15
curriculum materials for the players and teachers to use
16
for that program.
17
I’m not quite sure.
18
very well could have because I know there is a connection
19
between Ralph Barba, the Four Diegos, and developing
20
curriculum materials for another partnership that had
21
nothing to do with education.
22
MR HILL:
Now, whether Four Diegos developed it,
My memory isn’t that good but they
Did you cause any payments for soccer partnerships
23
to be paid out of moneys from the Silverton Primary
24
School?
25
MR ALLMAN:
26
MR HILL:
27
28
29
30
Yes.
And those soccer partnerships that you paid for out
of the Silverton funds were to benefit which schools?
MR ALLMAN:
A corridor of schools, from Broadmeadows down to
about Preston.
MR HILL:
Did that include Silverton?
385
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR ALLMAN:
2
MR HILL:
3
MR ALLMAN:
5
MR HILL:
6
MR ALLMAN:
7
MR HILL:
8
MR ALLMAN:
10
11
12
13
Any schools come particularly to mind that were to
benefit - - -
4
9
No, no.
I think John Fawkner Secondary College was one.
Which one?
John Fawkner, I’m sure.
John - - Broadmeadows Secondary College which changed names
to something else but there are a number of schools out
that way that were part of the partnership.
MR HILL:
And I think you’ve told us Ralph Barba was the – or
is the brother-in-law of Nino Napoli.
MR ALLMAN:
Yes?
I shouldn’t have said that so definitively.
He is
14
a relative of Nino Napoli’s – I’m not quite sure whether
15
it’s brother-in-law but there’s a connection within the
16
family.
17
MR HILL:
18
MR ALLMAN:
19
MR HILL:
20
MR ALLMAN:
21
MR HILL:
22
Yes.
There’s a relationship.
Yes.
A familial – a family relationship between the two?
Yes.
And John Fawkner Primary – sorry – John Fawkner
Secondary College, the principal at the time was?
23
MR ALLMAN:
24
MR HILL:
25
MR ALLMAN:
26
MR HILL:
Gus.
Gus Napoli?
Mm.
So we have this three-way relationship.
And can you
27
recall how much money was paid out of Silverton in
28
respect to - - -
29
MR ALLMAN:
30
MR HILL:
No, I can’t.
- - - that partnership?
386
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
3
MR ALLMAN:
No, I can’t.
But I can remember what service was
provided.
MR HILL:
You see, as we examine it, Mr Allman, it becomes
4
interesting, doesn’t it, that money that’s placed at
5
Silverton by Mr Napoli, albeit at your request, is
6
finding its way to relatives of Mr Napoli in one way or
7
another?
8
9
MR ALLMAN:
You don’t find that interesting?
I do.
You’re making that connection.
I’m not.
I
can recall paying – I’m sure we did pay Four Diegos
10
something.
11
Barba’s connection was there.
12
when I found out that Ralph Barba was part of the Four
13
Diegos but all I knew is that I was paying an account for
14
a product that was delivered to education.
15
16
17
MR HILL:
Yes.
Napoli?
MR ALLMAN:
I did not know or – at the time what Ralph
I don’t know the timing of
Paying that account at the instigation of Mr
Mr Nino Napoli?
What I – my recollection is as follows:
Nino was
18
a very passionate supporter of the partnership between
19
the A-League soccer clubs and the schools.
20
ask me often how that partnership was travelling and the
21
partnership from the outset was a one-way street.
22
were doing something for kids and us.
23
contributing nothing back.
24
partnership, several months, requests were made for us to
25
contribute financially to the costs that they were
26
incurring.
27
MR HILL:
28
MR ALLMAN:
He used to
They
We were
Not long into the
Requests made by whom?
By the group to the person in my team looking
29
after the partnership and directly to me and also from
30
Nino, he was very keen for us to contribute to that
387
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
3
partnership.
MR HILL:
MR ALLMAN:
5
MR HILL:
MR ALLMAN:
8
MR HILL:
9
MR ALLMAN:
11
Reimbursed, yes.
But they had previously been doing it voluntary - -
-
7
10
He was keen that they be financially
rewarded.
4
6
Right.
The whole - - - - - voluntarily.
The whole agreement was around a voluntary
participation.
MR HILL:
And Nino suggested to you that it might be
12
appropriate that they, through Silverton, be financially
13
recompensed.
14
MR ALLMAN:
I don’t know that he would have said “through
15
Silverton”.
16
a contribution towards what they are – what it’s costing
17
them?”
18
MR HILL:
19
MR ALLMAN:
20
MR HILL:
21
He would have said, “Why don’t you give them
And you agreed?
Eventually, yes.
And you dug into the funds that you had sitting at
Silverton?
22
MR ALLMAN:
23
MR HILL:
Correct.
And in respect to the persons who were recompensed,
24
was it the A-League soccer clubs that were being paid
25
money?
26
Proprietary Limited?
27
Hawthorn Football come - - -
28
MR ALLMAN:
29
MR HILL:
30
Or was it private companies such as Four Diegos
Let me illustrate it to you.
The
Yes.
- - - and conduct footy clinics at my son’s school.
They don’t charge for them, and they do it because they
388
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
think it’s a good thing, and kids go on to play football
2
perhaps at higher levels as a result.
3
soccer clubs doing that, to your knowledge?
4
MR ALLMAN:
Were the A-League
By comparison I would suggest it was a much more
5
sophisticated approach from the A-League soccer clubs
6
than any AFL club has ever done.
7
8
9
MR HILL:
Yes.
And were they asking - the A-League clubs –
for payment?
MR ALLMAN:
10
MR HILL:
11
MR ALLMAN:
Who’s "they"?
The A-League soccer clubs.
No, I’m not aware – no, the football federation, I
12
think it was called, or the representatives of the
13
partnership from that side were asking for recompense.
14
MR HILL:
15
MR ALLMAN:
16
MR HILL:
Right.
And Nino was encouraging that recompense to occur.
And was all this done in writing?
That is, the
17
representatives of the soccer federation?
18
writing to the education department saying we would like
19
to be paid?
20
MR ALLMAN:
My recollection is that they brought it up in
21
meetings.
22
account - - -
23
MR HILL:
24
MR ALLMAN:
25
MR HILL:
26
I can’t recall any written – but when .....
Who were the meetings before?
Pardon?
Who were the meetings before?
Who attended these
meetings that they brought it up?
27
MR ALLMAN:
28
MR HILL:
29
MR ALLMAN:
30
Were they
There was somebody from my division.
Who?
A young man who worked there for 12 months and
that long ago, I will think of his name.
389
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
He is no longer
J. ALLMAN
1
with the department, he was the manager from my end for
2
the partnership with the A-League soccer clubs and the
3
football federation, and the request did go to him, and
4
to me, and I pushed back considerably on us having any
5
contribution at all.
6
MR HILL:
7
MR ALLMAN:
Right.
And then Nino Napoli went to work on you?
Well, actually, what turned me around in respect
8
to making a financial contribution was twofold:
yes,
9
Nino Napoli certainly encouraged me to contribute
10
financially.
11
federation had gone to huge expense to develop curriculum
12
materials in line with the Victorian essential learning
13
standards;
14
ensure that the activity that occurred between the soccer
15
players and the children in government schools was
16
educationally worthwhile.
17
point it was a very sophisticated and elaborate
18
arrangement;
19
ever seen from an AFL club.
20
MR HILL:
21
MR ALLMAN:
But the other factor was that the football
in line with the Victorian Curriculum to
And that’s why I make the
far more sophisticated than anything I have
Why was it paid for out of Silverton?
Because the funds were there, and to be clear,
22
because I had pushed back for so long in a public sense
23
with my team in education partnerships, I thought it was
24
appropriate to pay it out of Silverton.
25
MR HILL:
When you say funds were there at Silverton does that
26
mean that you put into Silverton, amounts of money that
27
weren’t earmarked for any project at all and just left
28
them sitting there until a project came to mind?
29
were asked?
30
MR ALLMAN:
Or you
There are always projects on the go.
390
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
MR HILL:
I understand that, but did you take money from
2
central funds and put them out at Silverton having no
3
object in mind for those funds at the time they were
4
transferred?
5
MR ALLMAN:
6
MR HILL:
7
MR ALLMAN:
9
MR HILL:
11
Yes.
And we’re talking hundreds of thousands of
dollars, aren’t we?
8
10
That would have been true on some occasions.
Over a period of years.
Yes.
Now, just a couple of more emails, and we will
conclude our questioning today of you.
MR O’BRYAN:
Whose idea was it that those particular soccer-
12
related funds be paid out of Silverton?
13
Mr Napoli?
14
MR ALLMAN:
15
MR O’BRYAN:
Was it yours or
Mine.
And I take it from an answer a short time ago
16
that the funds at Silverton may have already been with
17
Silverton, or there may have been a further allocation of
18
funds to cover the soccer money.
19
that the position?
20
MR ALLMAN:
21
MR O’BRYAN:
22
MR HILL:
You don’t recall, is
I don’t really recall.
Yes.
Could we have page – well, how am I going with the
23
tendering of documents?
24
which are page 64 and 60 as the next exhibit,
25
Commissioner.
26
MR O’BRYAN:
We tender the last two pages
Just before we do that, the wine that was bought
27
through Silverton, where was that delivered?
28
mentioned the supplier, so they will probably –
29
presumably have records, but where do you record it was
30
delivered?
391
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
It
J. ALLMAN
1
MR ALLMAN:
2
MR O’BRYAN:
3
MR ALLMAN:
4
And stored where?
Where at 33?
I think it was just in an office, just in – at
level 1.
5
MR O’BRYAN:
6
MR HILL:
7
33 St Andrews Place.
Yes.
Could we please have – sorry, yes, and exhibit
number is 28.
8
MR O’BRYAN:
9
MR HILL:
So – sorry, so you want to tender what?
Pages 64 and 60 as exhibit 28.
10
MR O’BRYAN:
Yes.
Well, those pages will be exhibit 28.
11
EXHIBIT #28 PAGES 64 and 60
12
MR HILL:
And if we could go, Mr Allman, to page 168 please.
13
And if we could scroll down.
14
Mr Allman, from Ian Maddison to yourself, subject
15
“invoice”?
16
MR ALLMAN:
17
MR HILL:
Do you see an email there,
Yes?
Yes.
This is dated 28 May 2009, and Mr Maddison is saying
18
in the email to you:
19
I have just checked with my accountant who has advised
20
that the new superannuation rules don’t apply until the
21
new financial year, so I can still belt up to $100,000
22
into super between now and 30 June.
23
you can get Nino to pay that invoice as soon as possible
24
I would be grateful, as I would be disappointed to get
25
caught with paying 30 per cent on it at the end of June.
26
Let me know re: Tuesday Tiger Turf lunch with the
27
bushfire legend.
28
29
30
As a consequence, if
A couple of questions, Mr Allman, what invoice was
being referred to there?
MR ALLMAN:
Can you recall?
No, I can’t.
392
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
3
4
5
MR HILL:
Did you have any financial dealings with Mr
Maddison?
MR ALLMAN:
No, I can’t recall ever having financial dealings
with him.
MR HILL:
Can you think of any reason why he would be writing
6
to you regarding an invoice and asking you to get Nino to
7
pay it?
8
9
10
11
12
MR ALLMAN:
Only that I suspect he had been asking Nino and
Nino hadn’t.
So he’s asking me to remind Nino.
all I can think of.
MR HILL:
All right.
This wasn’t money that was paid out of
Silverton?
13
MR ALLMAN:
14
MR HILL:
No.
Clearly, “Tiger Turf lunch” is a reference to lunch.
15
Do you recall going to that lunch?
16
of the email.
17
18
19
20
That’s
MR ALLMAN:
Yes.
That’s the last line
I don’t recall going to the lunch but I very
possibly could have.
MR HILL:
With the Bushfire Legend.
That’s a humorous
reference to Mr Rosewarne.
21
MR ALLMAN:
22
MR HILL:
Correct.
Then if we look at the other email on the page, this
23
is from Nino Napoli to yourself asking you, “Do you have
24
the invoice?
25
response to you sending an email to Mr Napoli saying, “I
26
will give you a call re this.”
27
your memory?
28
MR ALLMAN:
29
MR HILL:
30
Give it to me, Nino.”
And that’s in
Does this not refresh
No, it doesn’t.
Because it seems to us this, you weren’t prepared to
put in the email the detail and you called Mr Napoli, who
393
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
then writes back to you asking for the invoice.
2
what it seems to say on the face of it.
3
MR ALLMAN:
4
MR HILL:
5
MR ALLMAN:
6
MR HILL:
That’s
Yes?
Not the way I see it.
Right.
Well - - -
That wouldn’t be my form.
But, clearly, it must have been in Mr Napoli’s mind
7
that you had the invoice because he’s asking you for it.
8
You must have had some connection with this invoice.
9
MR ALLMAN:
It appears that way but, honestly, I cannot
10
remember that email or that issue, and I can’t remember
11
ever engaging Ian Maddison in any activity.
12
Ian or Nino will be able to answer the question.
13
14
MR HILL:
Although you presumably typed up your email, did
you, and made the subject “Maddo’s invoice”?
15
MR ALLMAN:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR ALLMAN:
18
MR HILL:
19
was?
20
MR ALLMAN:
21
MR HILL:
22
So I suspect
“Maddo’s invoice”, yes.
So you presumably typed that in. Is that right?
Yes.
But you have no recollection what Maddo’s invoice
No.
And then do you accept at the time you must have
known?
23
MR ALLMAN:
Yes.
24
MR HILL:
25
MR O'BRYAN:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR O'BRYAN:
28
EXHIBIT #29 PAGE 168
29
MR HILL:
30
MR O'BRYAN:
Yes.
Will I give that an exhibit number, Mr Hill?
We would seek that be exhibit.
It’s exhibit 29.
29 is page 168.
We have no further questions today for Mr Allman.
All right.
What’s the position then with Mr
394
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
2
Allman?
MR HILL:
The likelihood is that he will be required to give
3
further evidence towards the end of this investigation.
4
And we would ask that he be allowed to now and – but not
5
discharged from his summons finally.
6
MR O'BRYAN:
All right.
Well, Ms Shann, there is also the
7
possibility of – as I’ve discussed earlier with you, of
8
other representatives at least applying for – to cross-
9
examine your client and the possibility, therefore, of
10
that being permitted.
11
at the moment.
12
moment?
13
track we will see what transpires.
14
time, if there were no further questioning by counsel
15
assisting or any other representative, but you wanted to
16
ask questions, we can come back and you can do that, and
17
to defer the making of any submissions.
18
about that down the track.
19
course?
20
MS SHANN:
21
MR O'BRYAN:
So that’s all a bit up in the air
So are you happy just to defer at the
I will adjourn the examination, and down the
And at a convenient
And we can talk
Are you content with that
We are.
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
Well,
22
then, Mr Allman, you’ve heard that.
Your examination may
23
need to be continued at a later date and is, therefore,
24
adjourned to a date and time to be fixed.
25
bound by the summons and confidentiality notice.
26
be recalled at any time during the course of this
27
investigation to give further evidence on oath.
28
be advised in writing if that is to occur, and of the
29
date and time.
30
no longer required.
You remain
You may
You will
And also advised in writing when you are
That advice can be given through
395
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
your legal representatives and who can keep in touch
2
with, at least, the solicitor for the Commission and, if
3
necessary, counsel assisting.
4
Thank you.
5
6
The time now is 2.25 pm.
So you are excused now.
So please stop the
recording of this examination.
7
THE WITNESS WITHDREW
8
ADJOURNED
[2.25 pm]
9
10
396
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
J. ALLMAN
1
RESUMED
2
MR STAFFORD:
3
4
[2.27 pm]
Mr Napoli is here, sir, and will take the stand
so – I am the instructing solicitor.
MR O'BRYAN:
Yes, certainly.
Mr Napoli, can you just sit back
5
there for a minute.
6
There are some preliminaries I have to go through, and
7
then I will ask you to come forward.
8
9
There are some – good afternoon.
This examination is to be video recorded.
Please
commence the recording.
10
Today’s date is 29 April 2015, and the time is 2.27
11
pm.
12
examination under powers delegated to me by instrument,
13
dated 5 September 2013, a copy of which has already been
14
marked as exhibit 1.
15
conducted under part 6 of the Independent Broad-Based
16
Anti-Corruption Commission Act 2011 as part of an
17
investigation under part 3 of that Act.
18
My name is Stephen O’Bryan.
I’m conducting this
The examination is being held and
I take this opportunity to draw your attention, Mr
19
Napoli and to that of your counsel, that this examination
20
is inquisitorial in nature.
21
bound by the rules of evidence and that I can regulate
22
the examination in any way I consider appropriate.
23
examination is open to the public.
24
represented by Mr Stafford.
25
me the power to review that decision in certain
26
circumstances.
27
This means that I’m not
The
Mr Napoli, you may be
However, the IBAC Act gives
And, Mr Stafford, you will be given an opportunity at
28
the conclusion of the examination, or on a subsequent
29
occasion which we can discuss, to ask Mr Napoli questions
30
which you feel could clarify any answers he gives, and/or
397
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
DISCUSSION
1
to make a statement or submission on his behalf relevant
2
to the investigation.
3
Mr Stafford, I’m required to inform you as Mr
4
Napoli’s legal representative of non-disclosure
5
requirements which apply to you and these come,
6
respectively, from section 131D and 44(2)(b) of the IBAC
7
Act, namely you may not disclose the restricted matter
8
specified in the confidentiality notice received by your
9
client, and dated 10 November 2014, to any other person
10
while the notice has effect.
11
offence.
12
specified in the confidentiality notice in accordance
13
with a direction or authorisation given by me, or another
14
appropriately qualified IBAC officer, or for the purposes
15
of complying with a legal duty of disclosure or a
16
professional obligation arising from your professional
17
representation.
18
To do so is a criminal
You may disclose the restricted matter
Mr Napoli, would you please enter the witness box.
19
Please be seated, Mr Napoli.
20
delegated powers, I now require you to take an oath or to
21
make an affirmation.
22
prefer?
23
MR R. NAPOLI:
24
MR O'BRYAN:
25
name?
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR O'BRYAN:
28
MR R. NAPOLI:
29
MR O'BRYAN:
30
MR R. NAPOLI:
Mr Napoli, pursuant to my
Which of those two options do you
I will take oath, please.
Could you just remind me, do you have a middle
Anthony.
Anthony?
Yes.
Thank you. You will take the oath, did you say?
Yes, please.
31
398
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
DISCUSSION
1
RAFFAELE ANTHONY NAPOLI, SWORN
2
MR O’BRYAN:
Because this is an inquisitorial examination, the
3
procedure differs from procedures which are adversarial
4
in nature, Mr Napoli.
5
will question you on matters relevant to the
6
investigation and I may also ask you some questions.
7
When Mr Hill has concluded his questioning, Mr Stafford
8
will have the opportunity to ask you questions to clarify
9
any answers you have given and ultimately to make
Counsel assisting me, Mr Hill,
10
submissions on your behalf, confined to the matters about
11
which you have been examined and should he wish to, of
12
course.
13
Before the questioning commences, I’m required to
14
deal with some other preliminary matters.
15
firstly, to advise you of the nature of the matters in
16
respect of which you are to be asked questions and they
17
are to give evidence before this Commission in relation
18
to your knowledge of matters the subject of the scope and
19
purpose described in the attached preliminary information
20
and directions for public examinations in Operation Ord.
21
I’m required,
A further thing is this, Mr Napoli, at the time you
22
were served with a summons to attend today, did you
23
receive a document titled Section 121(3)(c) Statement of
24
Rights and Obligations?
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR O’BRYAN:
27
Yes.
And prior to the examination, has a legal
representative explained that document to you?
28
MR HILL:
29
MR O’BRYAN:
30
You did?
Yes, Mr Stafford.
Thank you.
Finally, for both of you, Mr Napoli
and Mr Stafford, because this investigation involves a
399
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
protected disclosure under the Protected Disclosures Act,
2
I’m required to advise you of two matters.
3
would be committing a criminal offence if you disclose
4
the content or information about the content of the
5
disclosure.
First, you
6
Secondly, you would also be committing a criminal
7
offence if you disclose information likely to lead to the
8
identification of the person who made the assessable
9
disclosure.
Mr Napoli, you may disclose the content or
10
information about the content of the protected disclosure
11
to Mr Stafford for the purpose of obtaining legal advice
12
or as part of your representation here.
13
I am otherwise satisfied that the limited exceptions
14
which would allow such disclosure do not apply in this
15
case and I do not allow disclosure for any other purpose
16
and, Mr Stafford, you may disclose such information for
17
the purposes of complying with the legal duty of
18
disclosure or a professional obligation arising from your
19
professional relationship with your client.
20
examination will now commence and I authorise Mr Hill to
21
examine you, Mr Napoli.
22
MR HILL:
23
MR R. NAPOLI:
24
25
26
Are you Raffaele Napoli?
You can call me “Ralph”, if you want, to make
it easier.
MR HILL:
Perhaps just whilst we’re on that, can I ask you are
you also known as “Raff” and “Ralph”?
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
30
Thank you, Mr Hill.
Thank you, Commissioner.
27
29
And the
Yes, either way, it’s - - -
Right.
So it’s either “Raff”, “Ralph”, or
“Raffaele” - - MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
400
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR HILL:
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
3
MR HILL:
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR HILL:
6
- - - but your surname is “Napoli”?
Thank you.
summons served upon you?
MR R. NAPOLI:
8
MR HILL:
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
11
Yes.
And do you attend here today in response to a
7
10
Correct.
Correct.
And was that summons numbered SE1417?
MR HILL:
Yes.
And did you also at another time receive a
confidentiality notice?
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
Correct, yes.
And, as you’ve said, with the summons, you received
14
a document titled Section 121(3)(c) Statement of Rights
15
and - - -
16
MR R. NAPOLI:
17
MR HILL:
18
MR R. NAPOLI:
19
MR HILL:
20
- - - Obligations.
Correct.
And with the summons, did you also receive a
covering letter dated 16 March 2015?
21
MR R. NAPOLI:
22
MR HILL:
23
Correct.
Yes.
And are the documents before you copies of the
documents that you received?
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR O’BRYAN:
Yes, correct.
I now tender, Commissioner, those four documents.
Yes.
I will have them marked as a bundle, those
27
four documents – the summons, statement of rights and
28
obligations, confidentiality notice and covering letter –
29
and they will be marked exhibit 30.
30
EXHIBIT #30 SUMMONS, STATEMENT OF RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS,
401
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND COVERING LETTER
MR HILL:
Have you discussed the existence of the summons or
3
the subject matter of the investigation with any person
4
other than with your legal representatives before coming
5
to today’s examination?
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
Prior to summons, when I got back from
7
overseas, I tried to find out as much as I could off my
8
parents, particularly my dad.
9
people that come up to me and speak to me about it and I
But there’s a lot of
10
always tell them that I can’t speak because of
11
confidentiality.
12
find out as much as I could because, obviously, you know,
13
I was implicated in a way when I got home.
14
that, I don’t – I don’t speak to anyone about the details
15
of what I’ve been summonsed about.
16
MR HILL:
So, yes, prior to summons, I tried to
But beyond
Would it be fair to say that there have been in the
17
past extensive discussions between you, your father, Nino
18
Napoli, and your mother, Josephine Napoli, about these
19
matters?
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
Prior to summons or post summons?
Prior to summons.
When I got home, of course, because I was – I
23
was – I was mortified by what, you know – it’s not normal
24
for people to come into your house and have a warrant to
25
take stuff.
26
about that then.
27
MR HILL:
So, yes, I – yes, I – I spoke to mum and dad
There were lots of discussions with your mother and
28
father?
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
More my dad.
Not so much my mum.
Yes.
402
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
2
MR HILL:
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
And also with a Mr Mick Giulieri?
Prior to summons, I was in and about
4
conversations.
5
anything that I didn’t want to hear, I would either walk
6
out of the room or make it quite clear to dad that I
7
didn’t want have anything to do with these conversations,
8
especially once I found out the summons and the nature of
9
everything, I didn’t want to be privy or I didn’t want to
10
11
I never engaged in them and if there was
be involved in anything that could be seen as untoward.
MR HILL:
Exactly.
And we will come to it in detail but,
12
effectively, your father was asking you to lie.
13
either “yes” or “no”, Mr Napoli.
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
MR HILL:
Yes.
It’s
It’s – yes.
When you say “yes”, you’re agreeing with me that
16
effectively your father was asking you to say things that
17
were not truthful?
18
MR R. NAPOLI:
19
MR HILL:
20
21
Correct.
Yes.
And he was joined in that by Mr Giulieri in
the conversations - - MR R. NAPOLI:
Once again, the nature of the convos or the
22
details of the conversations, I used to make it quite
23
clear that I didn’t want to be part of them, I ignore
24
them, or I would – I – I just didn’t want to be part of
25
it.
26
details of what they were speaking about because I just
27
didn’t want to be part of it.
So I would walk out of the room.
28
MR HILL:
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
I don’t know the
Right.
Yes.
Well, what you’re saying is you didn’t want to be a
403
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
party to telling untruths.
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
3
MR HILL:
4
5
Exactly right.
And as a result, you try and isolate yourself from
those who were requesting that of you.
MR R. NAPOLI:
Very difficult, obviously, because I still live
6
at home and when I got home, my dad was quite ill.
7
year or so ago, he had significant heart surgery.
8
almost died.
9
conversations is – is – I was at home.
A
He
So for me to be in and about these
But did I ever
10
partake in – in any way that would, you know, be not
11
right?
12
13
MR HILL:
All right.
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
MR HILL:
age?
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
MR HILL:
20
17.04.1985.
So in 2004, you were either, what, 18 or 19 years of
17
19
Now, let’s go back to the year 2004.
What’s your birth date?
14
16
Never.
Roughly, yes.
Yes.
And that time, 2004, what were you doing?
Were you studying?
MR R. NAPOLI:
I was – I don’t know the exact dates but I was
21
studying around the 2004/2005 period.
22
overseas. I was trialling at some professional clubs in
23
Europe and my whole life back then was my football, and
24
what I was playing and stuff.
25
in Melbourne called Melbourne Knights back in the old
26
NSL, like the A-League now equivalent.
27
what my life was all about back then.
28
did and that’s all I ever wanted to do.
29
30
MR HILL:
Right.
2004, I was
I was playing for a club
So, yes, that’s
That’s all I ever
So you were endeavouring back in 2004 to
make yourself the best soccer player that you could.
404
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
I – that was one thing and also I – in
2
the back of my mind I had the idea that I – the
3
profession I actually do now is what I wanted to do back
4
then, so it was – I was learning on the job per se.
5
MR HILL:
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
MR HILL:
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
9
Right.
Yes.
So you were studying?
Yes.
I can’t remember the exact dates, but I
finished my VCE in 2002 and then I went to uni in 2005 –
10
end of 2005, I can’t remember.
11
degree and then I transferred over to sports science.
12
MR HILL:
Yes.
I did a sports admin
And I take it that you would have spent a lot
13
of time every day training to equip yourself with the
14
best fitness and soccer skills that you could.
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
I was training or studying in what I – as
16
– what I was at my uni, or my passion which is what I’m
17
doing now, is do a lot of reading and stuff.
18
MR HILL:
Now, you’ve mentioned that you were overseas.
I
19
just want to have you look at something that will come up
20
on the screen which are records from the Department of
21
Immigration and Border Protection which show your
22
movements in and out of Australia just so that we can fix
23
the dates when you were here and not here.
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
Yes.
And if we could have page 872 on the screen, please.
This is your movement history into and out of Australia.
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
Yes.
And if we start at the bottom of the screen, so if
29
we could scroll down a little.
30
– and it is - - -
Thank you.
405
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
You will see
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
2
MR HILL:
3
- - - some five entries from the bottom of the page,
5 April 2004, you departed Tullamarine Airport - - -
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR HILL:
6
7
8
9
extended period playing soccer.
MR R. NAPOLI:
MR HILL:
Yes.
11
MR HILL:
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
17
18
19
20
21
I was representing Melbourne Knights then
And were you being paid by Melbourne Knights?
No.
I was a youth player at the time.
So what does that mean?
So you’re on a youth contract per se.
Yes.
You don’t get paid, but you get all the
services that the club provides.
MR HILL:
Right.
Do you get your expenses paid, such as
airfares and accommodation?
MR R. NAPOLI:
No, no.
We had to pay our – the whole team had
to pay their own trips, from my recollection.
MR HILL:
Right.
So this trip that you went on commencing 5
April 2004 - - -
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
24
Yes.
overseas, yes.
MR R. NAPOLI:
16
Yes.
- - - and that’s when you went overseas for an
10
15
Yes.
Yes.
- - - was one that you had to pay for yourself in
its entirety, yes?
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
That includes meals, accommodation and airfares.
Prior to leaving, you - they cost it for you,
28
and then you pay and then everything is included within
29
that, so - - -
30
MR HILL:
Yes.
How much was this cost at?
406
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
I can’t remember.
I didn’t pay for it, my
parents did.
3
MR HILL:
Right.
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR HILL:
It would be many thousands of dollars.
I presume so, yes.
I don’t - - -
And if we look at the screen again and the records,
6
it appears that you came back to Australia on 8 June,
7
stayed in Australia until 25 July and then left again
8
until 5 September.
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
10
MR HILL:
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
12
MR HILL:
13
14
Correct, yes.
I’m sorry, 3 September.
3 September, yes.
So that’s the period in 2004 that you were speaking
of before that you were away from - - MR R. NAPOLI:
The first was a tournament with a club, the
15
second one was a trial, because when I played in the
16
first section, the second section, the club wanted to
17
have a look at me further.
18
MR HILL:
19
MR R. NAPOLI:
20
MR HILL:
21
Right.
Yes.
Now, do you have knowledge of a person by the name
of Sharon Vandermeer?
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
She is my uncle’s ex-wife.
Yes.
Yes.
Which uncle?
My Uncle Dominic.
Yes.
And you’re aware, are you not, that she runs a
28
personnel company that essentially has been known over
29
the years as On The Ball Personnel Proprietary Limited?
30
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
407
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
MR HILL:
Have you ever attended at the offices of On The Ball
Personnel Proprietary Limited?
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
5
Have you ever been interviewed by her in terms of
employment contracts or the like?
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
MR HILL:
8
9
10
Not that I can remember, no.
Not that I can remember, no.
Have you ever had any dealings with her personally
regarding employment?
MR R. NAPOLI:
MR HILL:
No.
Not that I can remember.
You’re aware though, are you not, that in 2004, you
11
commenced receiving payments from On The Ball Personnel
12
Proprietary Limited?
13
MR R. NAPOLI:
14
MR HILL:
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
MR HILL:
19
Yes.
Yes.
They were not payments arranged by yourself?
No.
But they were payments arranged by your father?
Correct.
Could we have on the screen, please, pages 19 and
20.
20
MR O’BRYAN:
21
MR HILL:
22
MR O'BRYAN:
23
MR HILL:
24
MR O'BRYAN:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR O'BRYAN:
27
MR HILL:
Do you want to tender the travel movement?
I will, sir.
Not yet?
I’m going to come back to it at a later stage.
All right.
Perhaps I will tender it then.
All right.
Could we – can you see page – can we scroll down –
28
further down, please.
The email that’s shown on the
29
screen at the moment is from your father, Nino Napoli, to
30
Sharon - or it’s on your father’s email address to
408
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
sharonotbp, and you understand that those initials are
2
for On The Ball Personnel?
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
I presume so, yes.
All right.
5
Hi, Sharon.
It was good to see you on Saturday and
6
Patrick was just wonderful.
7
Sharon, just with Ralph’s details, do you need any
8
further information prior to crediting Ralph’s account?
9
As yet, I have not received any papers that you required
They are both growing up.
10
filled in.
11
hope they are all right.
12
And then underneath that, you will see the word:
13
Sharon, hi again.
14
Ralph has commenced his part-time work and I believe you
15
have all the bank details for payment purposes.
16
any papers I need to have, please.
17
Josie has given you tax number –
18
And if we could go to page 20.
19
…bank accounts, etcetera.
20
payment 20 hours per week as from 15 September 2004 at
21
the clerical casual award rate, please.
22
a budget of $10,000 which you would have received payment
23
some time ago.
24
Please confirm all okay.
25
better, we will go to lunch.
26
Have you seen those emails before?
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
30
Yes.
I have given you bank details, etcetera.
I
Let me know, Josie.
I did not mention in my other email
Send me
My understanding is
Thank you:
Can you please commence
You current have
Please use that budget until it runs out.
When things get a little
Regards, Nino Napoli.
It’s the first time I have seen it.
And were you aware of what was going on
between your father, Nino Napoli, and Sharon Vandermeer?
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
409
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR HILL:
Were you aware that it appears that both your mother
2
and father were arranging for you to be paid for 20 hours
3
per week work in 2004?
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR HILL:
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
MR HILL:
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
9
MR HILL:
All I can tell you about this is - - -
We will come to your explanation later.
Okay.
But were you aware at the time - - No.
- - - that your parents were arranging for you to be
10
paid through this employment agency for some 20 hours a
11
week?
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
MR HILL:
16
I was aware my dad was, yes.
Yes.
And that $10,000 had been put aside?
Not the volume or anything, no.
Do you know that that money came from the education
department?
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
18
MR HILL:
And there is no doubt that you were not working
19
No.
for the education department in 2004 in any way at all?
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
No.
No.
And now if we could scroll up, please.
We have
22
Sharon Vandermeer, director, On The Ball Personnel.
23
see - - -
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
You
Yes.
You see that, on the email?
Yes.
And she is emailing your father, Nino Napoli.
The
28
subject is “Re: Ralph details”:
29
Hi Nino.
30
had a lovely time on Saturday, but it was really good
It’s always great catching up with you guys.
410
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
I
R.A. NAPOLI
1
seeing everyone again.
2
much Ralph and Matthew have grown up.
3
Matthew is your brother?
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR HILL:
Correct.
My mum could not get over how
Yes.
6
Time just seems to fly by.
Now, I am the one who has
7
been very naughty and not sent the paperwork out, but I
8
have just put that into the post.
9
your email with Ralph’s bank details, however, if you
I have not received
10
send them today the staff here will process them and put
11
the money straight into his account.
12
for coming on Saturday as I know it has been such a hard
13
time of late.
14
there.
15
Thank you so much
Patrick was thrilled to have everyone
Much appreciated.
And there seems to be a response to that email if we
16
scroll up.
17
details are given there of your Commonwealth Bank account
18
at Keilor Downs.
19
any of these emails, or that at the time you knew what
20
was happening.
21
MR R. NAPOLI:
22
MR HILL:
23
Nino Napoli to Sharon Vandermeer, and the
Now, I’m not suggesting you have seen
I didn’t.
But you did have a streamlined account with the
Commonwealth Bank in 2004?
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
As far as I know.
Yes.
Yes.
Now, could we have on the screen please page 5, yes.
28
This is an extract from your streamline bank account.
29
won’t read out the account details, but - - -
30
MR R. NAPOLI:
I
Yes.
411
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
MR HILL:
And your address in Kealba.
your parents at that time?
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
5
MR R. NAPOLI:
6
You were living with
Correct.
Yes.
Because you still are?
Recently.
Just of recent, in the last week or
two I have sort of slept at home a little bit.
7
MR HILL:
Yes.
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
9
MR HILL:
Back then I was living at home, yes.
And could we go to entries commencing 22 October.
10
You will see that on 22 October there are five credit
11
entries, all in the sum of $307 from On The Ball
12
Personnel, and it is said to be pay for particular
13
periods.
14
order, but the first one is “pay for 17 October 2004,
15
$307”;
16
3.10.2004”;
17
So it appears that there are five weeks payment coming
18
your way, credited into your bank account from On The
19
Ball Personnel for $307 each week.
20
a significant amount of money to you at that time as a
21
young man of 19 years of age.
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
The first one – they’re not in chronological
“pay for 10.10.2004, $307”;
Yes.
“pay for 26.9.2004”;
Yes.
It’s money, yes.
“payment for
“pay for 19.9.2004”.
That would have been
Of course.
A significant sum when - - Well, yes.
.....
And if you look at the entry for 25 October, again,
26
On The Ball Personnel, “24.10.2004, $307” again.
27
seems to be another weekly payment made to you through
28
Sharon Vandermeer’s company of On The Ball Personnel.
29
Yes?
30
MR R. NAPOLI:
So it
Yes.
412
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
3
MR HILL:
And you would have seen those entries as your bank
statements came to you from time to time?
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
No, I never dealt with – up until I got
4
back from India a year or so ago when I was working over
5
there did minimal with my banking.
6
Like, I gave total control to my father with regards to
7
anything to do with my finances because I never – first
8
of all I’m not that type of person where I want to get
9
involved in that.
I – if not any.
Second of all, I live at home;
it was
10
never my focus.
I have always been fortunate enough to
11
have been looked after by my dad.
12
my accounts and that, my dad would do everything for me.
So anything to do with
13
And then when I got home recently in – like, last May
14
from working overseas, I have taken total control over my
15
finances.
16
seen the statements because I never looked at them
17
because I didn’t have anything to do with it.
18
just – I would know that I have my accounts and I would
19
have money when I go to the ATM machine, and that’s it.
20
MR HILL:
Back then I had – that’s the first time I have
Like, I
Let’s see if we can understand what you’re saying.
21
You did have one or more bank accounts with the
22
Commonwealth Bank?
23
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
yes.
25
MR HILL:
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
28
29
30
I have come to understand that of recent times,
Right.
Yes.
At that period I did, yes.
And you allowed your father and mother to
operate your account?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
I didn’t – it was just the way things
were done at home.
I didn’t really have any focus on it.
413
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
I just – that’s the way we – that’s the way I – I was
2
fortunate not to have to worry about that stuff as far as
3
I was concerned.
4
my dad would take total control over because I didn’t
5
want to, and I didn’t really – never had too.
6
where it’s at, like - - -
7
MR HILL:
Right.
And anything to do with financial stuff
So that’s
So what you’re saying is that you, in
8
respect to your bank account, or bank accounts gave total
9
control of them to your father?
10
MR R. NAPOLI:
11
MR HILL:
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes, I did.
And your mother.
I – more my father.
13
know – it was more dad;
14
stuff.
15
MR HILL:
16
MR R. NAPOLI:
I never said to mum, you
dad took total control over this
Well, didn’t your mother have power of attorney?
She – there was a power of attorney that I
17
signed years ago.
18
my – both my parents power of attorney over my accounts.
19
That was when I went overseas the second time.
20
just – like, growing up in the family I did – and it’s
21
very common in European families, or Italian families
22
that you don’t worry about this sort of stuff.
23
taken care of you until you leave home.
24
the scenario was for me when I was younger.
25
only been of recent times that I’ve taken total control
26
over everything with regards to – to my financial
27
situation and my accounts.
28
MR HILL:
I think it was 2007, 2008, that I gave
But I
It’s
And that’s what
And it’s
You’ve said:
29
In the past mum was looking always at my accounts.
30
Question:
Did she have access to your accounts?
414
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
Answer:
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
3
MR HILL:
Yes.
Yes.
4
Question:
What, your electric accounts?
5
Answer:
6
Question:
7
Answer:
8
Question:
9
access your accounts?
Yes.
Online?
Yes.
What was the purpose of that?
Why would she
10
Answer:
11
lot for me so I gave – my mum has got power of attorney
12
over a lot of things for me like my different health
13
things, and that’s just the way I operate.
14
my mum access to whatever – whatever she – whatever I
15
wanted to give – give her access to, and whatever she
16
needed to have access to.
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
MR HILL:
19
By you – because my mum – my mum used to do a
I always give
Yes.
That’s what you’ve said in the past.
That’s the
truth?
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
Yes.
And also my father as well so - - -
And also your father.
Yes, indeed.
So what you
22
were saying, so that it’s quite clear, in respect to your
23
bank account, you’ve given total control to both your and
24
father.
25
account or were coming out of the account, you had no
26
idea?
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
And as to what amounts were being paid into the
Zero.
In terms of - - -
Do you agree with that?
Yes.
I do, yes.
That’s correct.
But, of course, you had an ATM card so that you
415
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
could access money through the ATM.
2
you accessed money that way, the machine would give you
3
money.
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR HILL:
6
Yes?
Correct.
of your account.
MR R. NAPOLI:
8
MR HILL:
10
And every time
And it would give you a receipt showing the balance
7
9
Yes?
Correct.
Did you ever wonder why there was so much money
coming into your account?
MR R. NAPOLI:
I – my dad, when these payments started – when
11
I was always younger, dad would give me cash or just – I
12
would get money all the time off him.
13
said to me, “I won’t be giving you cash as much now.
14
everything will be deposited directly into your account.”
15
So that was my understanding of – and I asked him at the
16
time, I said, “Well, what do you mean?”
17
“Well, you don’t have to worry about it.
18
I’ve organised.”
19
implicitly trust him with - - -
20
MR HILL:
21
MR R. NAPOLI:
22
23
And at the time he
And he said,
It’s something
So – and then – I – I trust my dad.
I
Yes.
He’s my dad so that’s the way it panned out
back then.
MR HILL:
Do you have reason now to question that trust you
24
had in your father regarding the use of your bank
25
account?
26
So
MR R. NAPOLI:
I think the evidence will – will – it will come
27
out in the wash when it comes out in the wash.
28
yes.
29
MR HILL:
30
MR R. NAPOLI:
I – I –
Well, it’s coming out now, Mr Napoli.
The evidence – the evidence will be the
416
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
evidence, and that’s the way it will be.
MR HILL:
You don’t question the trust that you placed in your
3
father and mother as a result of what you now know was
4
done with your bank account?
5
MR R. NAPOLI:
I’ve never – I’ve never questioned the – you
6
know, their trust in terms of where they cared for me or
7
not.
I still think they care for me.
8
MR HILL:
Right.
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
And my dad.
But, you know, as I said, that’s
10
the way it happened then and that’s the way I – I used to
11
– you know, that’s the way things happened then and
12
that’s – it’s always the cultural thing.
13
didn’t really know any other way when I was growing up.
14
MR HILL:
So, like, I – I
Between 2004 and 2007 On The Ball Personnel were
15
making weekly payments into your bank account, weren’t
16
they?
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
MR HILL:
Yes.
Correct, yes.
And the evidence will be that On The Ball
19
Personnel Proprietary Limited were billing those amounts
20
of money, invoicing those amounts to the Essendon North
21
Primary School.
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
I don’t know.
You don’t know.
But what we can be certain of is
24
that you did not do any work between 2004 and 2007 at the
25
Essendon North Primary School.
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
28
Yes.
Yes.
That’s right, isn’t it?
I didn’t work there.
And the principal of that school at that time
was Mr Mick Giulieri.
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
Yes.
You know this?
417
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
2
MR HILL:
I come to know this when I got home.
Yes.
Yes, because you’ve had conversations with your
3
father and with Mr Giulieri where they both asked you to
4
tell a “little porkie”.
5
MR R. NAPOLI:
6
MR HILL:
7
MR R. NAPOLI:
8
9
10
11
MR HILL:
Exactly.
MR R. NAPOLI:
That’s, you know, that – what people ask me to
do and what I do is two different things so - - -
13
MR R. NAPOLI:
14
MR HILL:
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
They can ask me what they want, but I’m my own
person so - - -
MR HILL:
17
Yes, but I haven’t done that.
No, I know you haven’t done it but - - -
12
16
That’s the words that were used.
Just keep – just listen to the question.
Yes, yes.
And just try and answer the question.
Sorry.
I don’t mean to get angry or anything
but - - MR HILL:
You will be out of here much quicker if you just
answer the questions.
19
MR R. NAPOLI:
20
MR HILL:
Okay.
Truthfully.
Your father, Mr Nino Napoli, and Mr
21
Mick Giulieri, the principal of the Essendon Primary
22
School, both asked you to tell a lie to IBAC, and the lie
23
was that you had worked at the Essendon North Primary
24
School between 2004 and 2007.
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
30
They were the conversations that were - - -
That’s what they asked you.
Yes?
Yes.
And I think at one stage you said to your father
that he was deluded.
MR R. NAPOLI:
I – I’ve said many things to him so – yes.
418
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR HILL:
Yes.
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
3
MR HILL:
But you didn’t agree.
How could I?
No, of course.
But the payments from On The Ball
4
Personnel didn’t stop in 2007.
5
2010, did they not?
6
MR O'BRYAN:
7
MR R. NAPOLI:
8
MR HILL:
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
10
MR HILL:
They continued on until
You need to answer for the transcript.
Sorry.
Sorry, yes – yes.
Yes.
Yes.
And, again, any payments that you received from On
11
The Ball Personnel were not legitimately earned by
12
yourself.
13
MR R. NAPOLI:
I didn’t – I didn’t do – well, I did a lot of
14
work over those periods, but I was never told that the
15
money that was coming through from On The Ball was
16
pertaining to any work I may have done.
17
MR HILL:
In fact, On The Ball Personnel continued to pay you
18
on a weekly basis until 2011 in June.
19
that?
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
Do you agree with
Yes, yes.
Have you looked at these records - - Since I come home, Ian, I have because it’s not
23
normal for people to come into my house and take my bank
24
statements.
25
26
MR O'BRYAN:
If you can refer to – as Mr Hill, counsel
assisting.
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
30
Sorry.
I’m sorry.
We’ve not met before so I’m not certain how you know
my first name.
MR R. NAPOLI:
I just - - 419
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR HILL:
2
MR O'BRYAN:
3
Perhaps you’ve been reading the papers.
You’re probably – you’re probably the talk of the
Napoli household, Mr Hill.
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR O'BRYAN:
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
MR HILL:
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
9
MR O'BRYAN:
Is that right?
No, not really, not really.
Got better things – better things to talk about.
I’ve got better things to do anyway.
I’m sure they don’t refer to me as Ian.
No.
Anyway we will – we will stick to surnames.
10
MR R. NAPOLI:
11
MR HILL:
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
Yes, Mr Hill - - -
Thank you, Mr Napoli.
Sorry, I’ve lost my train of thought now.
Well, you continued to receive payments from On The
14
Ball Personnel until June 2011.
15
proposition is you did not do anything to earn those
16
payments from On The Ball Personnel.
17
18
MR R. NAPOLI:
And the very simple
I was never told back then that I was doing
work to get money from On The Ball.
19
MR HILL:
No.
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
And - - But I did do a lot of stuff for my own PD over
21
that period of time for – for different things.
22
never told those moneys are pertaining to your work.
23
MR HILL:
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
But I
Well, we will come to that.
Yes.
And, again, is it your evidence that between 2007
26
and 2011 that you weren’t looking at your bank account
27
statements?
28
MR R. NAPOLI:
29
MR HILL:
30
Yes, I – minimal if any, yes.
Is your evidence this, that you were just interested
in whether you could get money out of an ATM machine?
420
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
Well, I was told what was happening and – in
2
terms of money would come in and I just didn’t – didn’t
3
question it.
4
5
MR HILL:
Yes.
up again.
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
MR HILL:
I didn’t - - -
I wonder if we could put your travel records
Could we have page 872.
Yes.
We have already done the period for 2004.
Could we
8
just scroll down – yes, thank you – and if we now move to
9
2008, 16 July 2008.
It appears you depart Tullamarine,
10
leave Australia, and you don’t come back until 18 January
11
2009.
So you are away for a period of some six months.
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
Was that a soccer trip or - - I was – I, sort of – I didn’t sign up but I was
15
representing a play agency firm over in Europe so I was
16
trying to score a professional contract back in Europe
17
and, yes, that was – that was what was happening at that
18
time. I was embedded in clubs, trialling and stuff.
19
MR HILL:
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
22
Yes.
So you were away from Australia for that period of -
- -
23
MR R. NAPOLI:
24
MR HILL:
25
26
That’s what I was doing there.
Yes.
- - - approximately six months in the second half of
2008 and then if we just scroll up.
MR O'BRYAN:
27
Europe?
28
MR R. NAPOLI:
29
MR O'BRYAN:
30
MR R. NAPOLI:
And were you getting paid for that over in
My playing over there?
Yes, what you - - No, because I was just trialling at clubs.
421
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR O'BRYAN:
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
3
You were trialling?
MR O'BRYAN:
5
MR R. NAPOLI:
I understand, but you weren’t getting paid?
MR O'BRYAN:
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
12
MR HILL:
13
MR R. NAPOLI:
14
MR HILL:
But who was funding the trip?
My parents.
Right.
Yes.
And were you accessing from overseas money that you
had in your account?
16
MR R. NAPOLI:
17
MR HILL:
19
I just agreed to come home because I wanted to
go to uni and stuff.
MR HILL:
18
I broke the contract
Yes.
10
15
No, because I come home.
and come home.
7
9
I never got money from a
– I’d signed up a club in Switzerland in – but I - - -
4
6
Yes, I was trialling.
Yes, I had my ATM card.
Right.
And again did you notice that the balance
continued to be most healthy and increasing?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Of course I noticed because I would speak to
20
mum and dad or dad and he said, oh, you know, I just – I
21
noticed the money was in the account and dad said that
22
he’d looked after it so - - -
23
MR HILL:
Did you get any other explanation from your father
24
that he had arranged for moneys to be paid into your
25
account?
26
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
He said that – he just told me not to
worry about it.
28
MR HILL:
Right.
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
Yes.
He said nothing else?
You have to say yes or no.
422
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
2
MR HILL:
No, he did – from what I can remember, no.
Right.
And then if we look at the balance of your
3
travel records we can see period where you have gone away
4
overseas again - 29 June 2011 you were away for some two
5
weeks.
6
February you were away for a week, 22 September 2012 you
7
were away for another week.
8
vacation in 2013.
9
please, and if we could scroll down.
Then from 28 February – I am sorry, from 20
1 January, a two week
Then if we could have page 871,
Again we see your
10
travel in and out of Australia depicted there and you
11
agree with all of those?
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
Yes.
So there’s a multiplicity of overseas trips.
But – yes, but starting 2011 when I was getting
paid for work.
16
MR HILL:
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
So 2011 I started getting paid.
Yes.
2012, 2013 I was – they’re the dates I was
18
working at Maribyrnong.
19
2013 and then I left to go to India and those flights up
20
and back were pertaining to personal development that I
21
agreed to before my contract in India.
22
MR HILL:
23
MR R. NAPOLI:
So 2011, 2012, 2013.
Half of
Right.
And then in 2014, about 9 Feb is when I come
24
back for dad when he was crook and then I went back – I
25
stayed here almost a month because he was – he was,
26
obviously, really crook and then went back to India,
27
finished my contract, then come home.
28
MR HILL:
Do you say that you paid for all of these - - -
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
Since 2011, I used to pay for all my expenses.
Right.
So you took – you had taken over by then the
423
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
management of your financial affairs?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Not in terms of going in and out, but if I had
3
to – my mum said to me at the time that, “You’re starting
4
to earn, you know, your own wage through” – you know, for
5
my work at Maribyrnong.
6
MR HILL:
7
MR R. NAPOLI:
8
9
Yes.
So, you know, you have to pay for your own
stuff so I - - MR HILL:
All right.
Well, we will come to that soon but,
10
effectively, the first time that you start doing paid
11
work from a school is in 2011 at the Maribyrnong - - -
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
16
Maribyrnong Sports - - -
- - - Secondary College?
Maribyrnong Sports Academy.
So I was working
with the – the soccer program.
MR HILL:
Right.
So the first time you start to get paid
17
legitimately from a school is from the Maribyrnong Sports
18
College or Maribyrnong Secondary College, and that is
19
some time in 2011?
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
28
29
30
Early 2011 - - -
And you - - - - - I started working there.
And you were being paid directly from the school?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That is, you weren’t getting paid through On The
Ball Personnel?
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
On reflecting through my statements, it
has Maribyrnong – through that period, Maribyrnong Sports
424
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
Academy or Sports College.
2
MR HILL:
Yes.
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
And then 2012/2013 when I went full time, I
4
started getting paid by – it says Department of Education
5
on my statements.
6
MR HILL:
All right.
Well, we will have a look at that in a
7
minute.
8
Border Protection records for Raffaele Napoli.
9
10
MR O’BRYAN:
I will tender the Department of Immigration and
Well, they’re, pages 871 to 872, marked exhibit
31.
11
EXHIBIT #31 PAGES 871 to 872
12
MR HILL:
13
MR WOODWARD:
14
MR HILL:
15
And I should also - - -
I should also tender the bank statement that we
showed - - -
16
MR O’BRYAN:
17
MR HILL:
18
It’s not in the court book.
Yes.
That’s - - -
- - - Mr Napoli which is page 5 – known to us as
page 5.
19
MR O’BRYAN:
20
MR HILL:
21
MR O’BRYAN:
Yes.
It’s not in the court - - No.
So the bank statement of Mr Napoli covering
22
the period, what – 9 September ’08 until when?
23
to the bottom?
24
it?
Can we go
To 29 October – I’m sorry, it’s ’04, is
Yes, sorry - - -
25
MR HILL:
We will tender the five pages - - -
26
MR O’BRYAN:
27
MR HILL:
Yes, all right.
- - - which is the Commonwealth Bank Streamline
28
Account of Mr Raffaele Anthony Napoli and, in particular,
29
the entries commencing 22 October through to 25 October,
30
which are on page 5.
425
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR O’BRYAN:
All right.
It’s actually – can we just scroll
2
back the other way.
3
Commonwealth Bank statement 8 of Mr Napoli, of his
4
Streamline Account.
5
32.
6
7
8
9
That will do.
That will be exhibit
STATEMENT 8
MR HILL:
And we should also tender page 19 and 20, being the
emails that the witness was referred to.
MR O’BRYAN:
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
Of the book of documents - - -
Excuse me, Mr Hill, can I please have some more
water?
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
MR O’BRYAN:
16
MR R. NAPOLI:
17
MR O’BRYAN:
18
It’s statement 8 so it’s
EXHIBIT #32 MR NAPOLI’S COMMONWEALTH BANK STREAMLINE ACCOUNT
10
12
Yes.
Certainly.
Yes.
Exhibit 33.
Thank you.
We will just pause for a minute.
did you get that?
Ms McCarthy,
Exhibit 33 are pages 19 to 20.
19
EXHIBIT #33 PAGES 19 AND 20 OF BOOK OF DOCUMENTS
20
MS McCARTHY:
21
MR O’BRYAN:
22
MR HILL:
Yes, Commissioner.
Thank you.
Yes, Mr Hill.
If we could have up on the screen page 1 of book 3A
23
which looks like – now, again, these are extracts
24
commencing now in January 2007 and we’re still in your
25
personal bank account.
26
scroll down the page, these are extracts taken from your
27
bank account.
28
And you will see as we carefully
We will see that for a period – on that page – from 2
29
January 2007 down to the last entry on the page, 22 May
30
2007, you were being paid weekly what is said to be
426
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
wages, On The Ball Personnel wages of $168.70.
2
with that summation of what’s on that page?
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
5
You agree
Yes.
And that’s what you subsequently discovered when
you’ve looked at your records in more recent times?
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
MR HILL:
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
9
MR HILL:
Correct.
Yes.
Yes.
Could we go to page 2, please.
And when you look at
10
them, you will also see that you were being paid through
11
the agency superannuation as well.
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
Yes.
That’s what it says.
Yes?
Yes.
All of this was completely unknown to you at
the time?
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
16
MR HILL:
Yes.
Zero knowledge.
We’ve now got page 2 of this document which
17
commences at line 31 and, again, as we scroll down, we
18
see effectively weekly payments again being made by On
19
The Ball Personnel supposedly for wages in the sum of
20
$168.70 per week and we will also see some superannuation
21
payments also made into your account by On The Ball
22
Personnel Australasian Proprietary Limited.
23
all those entries?
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
Yes.
Do you see
Yes.
None of these amounts are earned by you in any way,
shape or form?
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
It’s money that dad said he organised for me.
Yes.
I – yes, I don’t - - -
All right.
Well, let’s go to page 3 commencing at
427
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
line 61 at the top of the page.
2
will see that on 16 October 2007, the amount has now
3
changed from $168.70 to $316.40.
4
unaware that you had got that pay rise.
5
6
7
8
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
As we scroll down, we
I take it you were
I – I knew there’s more money but, as I said,
dad always gave me money so I just accepted it - - MR HILL:
You just assumed that it was something your father
had organised?
MR R. NAPOLI:
10
MR HILL:
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
12
MR HILL:
13
MR R. NAPOLI:
14
MR HILL:
Well, that’s what I’m told, yes.
That’s what he told you and you accepted it.
Yes.
Is that right?
Yes.
Well, all right.
Well, let’s go down the page
15
fairly quickly because again it clearly demonstrates
16
payments of $316.40 to you into your account from On The
17
Ball Personnel Australasia for wages with periodic
18
payments of superannuation.
19
MR R. NAPOLI:
20
MR HILL:
Yes?
That’s what it says.
Page 4, again, we can do this fairly quickly.
We
21
see the same picture emerging until we get to 1 July 2008
22
and the weekly amount seems to have increased to $329.40.
23
MR R. NAPOLI:
24
MR HILL:
Yes.
Again, there are payments to you by way of
25
superannuation all coming from the same source;
26
agree?
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
Yes.
Yes.
do you
That’s what it says, yes.
Thank you.
Page 5.
I will do this very
29
quickly, because it’s exactly the same picture;
30
payments into your account from On The Ball Personnel.
428
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
weekly
R.A. NAPOLI
1
Page 6;
2
The Ball Personnel;
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
again, weekly payments into your account by On
do you agree?
Yes.
Page 7 – and we’re now moving through to nineteen –
5
sorry, through to 2009.
6
periodic superannuation payments all from On The Ball
7
Personnel.
8
payment into your account.
9
predominant weekly payment into your account all from On
Page 8;
10
The Ball Personnel.
11
there?
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
Yes.
Again, weekly payments, again,
$331.40 seems to be the weekly
Page 9;
$334.40 is the
There’s hundreds of them, isn’t
Well, yes.
Page 10;
On The Ball Personnel is continuing
14
to pay into your account sums of money and we’re now
15
getting to 2011.
16
you go to line 279, or item number 279;
17
one?
And the significant thing is that – can
you see that
It’s being highlighted for you.
18
MR R. NAPOLI:
19
MR HILL:
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
280 or 279?
279.
Yes.
This is a payment for the week 4 January 2011 of
22
$334.40 and those payments continue until we find on 24
23
February 2011 we have salary, Maribyrnong Secondary;
24
see that?
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
you
Yes.
Does that coincide with your memory as to when you
27
started doing some legitimate – or some work, I should
28
say, with Maribyrnong Secondary School?
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
I started working at Maribyrnong in Feb 2011.
That would be the beginning of the school year.
429
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
It’s a little bit later with the sports
2
academy.
3
a couple of weeks later.
4
MR HILL:
5
MR R. NAPOLI:
6
MR HILL:
The kids start, but the school program started
Yes.
Yes.
But the interesting thing is, as you scan down the
7
page, not only are you being paid by the Maribyrnong
8
Secondary College, but you’re still getting wages from On
9
The Ball Personnel.
10
11
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
That’s – dad told me that was money that
he organised, so - - MR HILL:
So the weekly payments from On The Ball Personnel
13
keep coming to you and your wage from the Maribyrnong
14
Secondary College.
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
MR HILL:
19
20
Yes.
And you were unaware of this at the time?
I knew I was working at Maribyrnong and I - - -
Yes, but you were aware – unaware of the fact that
you continued to be paid from On The Ball Personnel?
MR R. NAPOLI:
I was aware of it, but I didn’t know – dad – as
21
I said, dad said to me that that was money that was owed
22
to him and he said that’s – “This is your money”, so - -
23
-
24
MR HILL:
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
Did he say who the money was being paid for?
No, no.
He just – no.
Or paid by?
No.
He just said it was mine and he had
organised - - -
29
MR HILL:
But you said it was money that was owed to him.
30
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
He didn’t tell me who owed him or
430
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
anything.
2
MR HILL:
No, but he did say it was money owed to him?
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
5
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
Yes.
Which he was diverting into your account?
I don’t know if it was a diversion, but he put
6
it into my account, yes, and he said that was my mine.
7
Like I – yes.
8
9
MR HILL:
Right.
So money that was owed to him, he was
putting into your account?
10
MR R. NAPOLI:
11
MR HILL:
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
He said it was mine.
Yes.
For you?
He said it was – yes.
Yes.
He said, “This is – instead of me giving you
15
cash money”, or whatever – the money, how he used to give
16
it to me in the past, it would go in via this means.
17
MR HILL:
All right.
Well, let’s have a look at page 11.
18
Again, this is through the months of April to July 2011.
19
We see this doubling up of payments.
20
getting a payment from On The Ball Personnel Australia
21
for wages and, in addition, you’re getting a salary from
22
the Maribyrnong Secondary College;
23
MR R. NAPOLI:
24
MR HILL:
Each week you’re
do you see those?
Yes.
If we go to page 12, please.
We’re now looking at
25
the months of August through to April – August 2011
26
through to April 2011.
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
Yes.
And we now see for the first time on 8 February
29
2012, at line 346, a salary being paid to you by the
30
Department of Education.
431
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
Which is pertaining to my full-time
2
employment at Maribyrnong.
3
half of 2013 was full-time.
4
MR HILL:
So 2011 was part-time, 2012 –
And if we look carefully at those payments, we will
5
see, if we turn to page 13, further payments by way of
6
salary from the Department of Education.
7
MR R. NAPOLI:
8
MR HILL:
9
10
But what I want to ask you about is this;
if you
look, for example, at item number 366:
30 May 2012, salary Department of Education, $1749.19
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
12
MR HILL:
13
Yes.
Yes.
What period was that pay for?
Was that for a week,
or two weeks?
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
MR HILL:
16
MR R. NAPOLI:
That was a fortnightly salary.
Fortnightly?
We used to get paid - when I was working part-
17
time or full-time it was fortnightly, from my
18
recollection.
19
MR HILL:
And the - - -
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
Sometimes it would change.
Depends if we, you
21
know - and they would make us aware of that via email,
22
the teacher or the administration staff, but generally it
23
was fortnightly payments.
24
MR HILL:
And it’s clear that the payments have stopped from
25
the Maribyrnong Secondary College as they have stopped
26
from On The Ball Personnel.
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
Yes.
That’s - - -
In fact, the last payment from On The Ball Personnel
29
by way of salary appears to be 14 June 2011.
30
wouldn’t know?
432
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
You
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
2
MR HILL:
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
No.
Possibly, yes.
Right.
If that’s what it says.
Can we just briefly conclude this exercise by going
5
to page 14.
6
payments from the Department of Education to you on a
7
two-weekly basis with some other payments for
8
superannuation and the like.
9
10
MR R. NAPOLI:
MR HILL:
Again, you will see extracts indicating
Yes.
Now, there’s one payment on that page that I want
11
to – or transaction on that page that I want to ask you
12
about.
13
has come out of your account.
14
account.
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
Could we have a look at item number 411.
$28,500
$28,500 came out of your
Did you take that money out of your account?
No.
That was – I’ve come to understand now
16
that that was – I was holding money in another account,
17
money that my grandmother’s inheritance or my inheritance
18
with her savings and it was back in about 2008 that I was
19
going to buy a property and my grandmother was going to
20
give me that or give me that money to be able to use that
21
money to get a loan or help buy the property.
22
So I’ve come to understand that – yes, that money,
23
from what I can gather, has come from that account but I
24
didn’t – I didn’t take that out.
25
26
MR HILL:
Well, who took it out of your account?
has come out of your - - -
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
That money
It wasn’t me.
- - - your bank account.
It wasn’t me.
My parents had a power of
attorney so - - 433
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR HILL:
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
3
MR HILL:
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
5
MR HILL:
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
So either one of them have taken the $28,500?
And where did the $28,500 go?
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
MR HILL:
Pty Ltd?
13
MR HILL:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
MR HILL:
Correct.
Correct.
Yes, and both he and your mother are shareholders in
Bammington Pty Ltd?
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
I think so, yes. Yes.
Right.
Were you paying board at home during any of
this period?
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
That’s not something that I’ve really
done.
25
MR HILL:
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
28
MR R. NAPOLI:
29
MR HILL:
30
Well, Bammington is a company associated
He’s the director?
20
24
I’ve got no idea.
with your father?
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
You have to ask my dad.
Right.
15
22
But at the time I didn’t know.
Why would $28,500 of yours be going to Bammington
MR R. NAPOLI:
19
Well, that’s what – that’s what it says there,
Yes.
12
14
It went to Bammington Pty Ltd, didn’t it?
yes.
MR HILL:
11
Not sure.
Right.
8
10
Yes.
You’ve never been asked to pay board?
No.
Never been asked to pay for expenses?
Never.
Right.
And you agree that the payments from the
Education Department continue on until you resign in I
434
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
3
think mid-2013?
MR R. NAPOLI:
MR HILL:
5
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
8
9
10
I took one
year leave without pay.
4
6
I didn’t – I didn’t resign then.
Yes.
And I went to India to work and then I come
home and I got offered my new job and then I resigned.
MR HILL:
And your new job is unrelated to the Education
Department?
MR R. NAPOLI:
MR HILL:
Yes.
Correct.
Now, if we added up all those totals, and
11
we’re only talking – we’re not talking about all the
12
money between 2004 and 2007 – but if we add up the money
13
from 2007 to mid-2011 that was paid to you by On The Ball
14
Personnel Australasia Pty Limited by way of salary or
15
wage it amounts to $68,634.20 and there was
16
superannuation paid to you by On The Ball Personnel of
17
$6820.81, making in total about $75,000.
18
MR R. NAPOLI:
19
MR HILL:
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
Through On The Ball, is that what you’re - - -
Through On The Ball Personnel.
Yes.
For the years 2007 to 2011.
If that’s what you’re saying then that’s – yes.
That’s what those items add up to.
And you were
24
unaware of the source of those moneys other than your
25
father told you it was money that was owed to him which
26
he, effectively, was giving you.
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
30
Yes.
Correct.
Do you know whether this money has been paid
back, the $75,000 that - - MR R. NAPOLI:
I wouldn’t have any - - 435
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR O'BRYAN:
2
MR HILL:
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
5
Paid back to who?
Paid back to the Education Department.
That’s – no.
You would have to ask my dad. I
don’t – I don’t know.
MR HILL:
Right.
Because the evidence will be that On The
6
Ball Personnel Proprietary Limited got all of that money,
7
the $75,000, from the Education Department and paid it on
8
to you.
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
10
11
You will have to speak to dad.
I wouldn’t
know.
MR HILL:
All right.
It seems from the records that you
12
received, by way of salary and superannuation from the
13
Maribyrnong Secondary College some $22,000.
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
15
MR HILL:
16
MR R. NAPOLI:
17
18
19
know.
MR HILL:
Yes.
You say you were doing part time work for the
Maribyrnong Secondary College.
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
23
It would be around about that – I – I don’t
But, yes, it would be - - -
20
22
In 2011, calendar year 2011?
Yes.
Had you entered into a contract with them that was
in writing?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Not – not – I can’t remember being 2011 – I was
24
embedded in the – in the soccer program there four to
25
five mornings a week from about 5.30 till nine, 10,
26
sometimes 11.
27
rehab and fitness programs and technical skills, and
28
whatever was required of me pertaining to my profession,
29
and making them better.
30
MR HILL:
And I would work with their players on
And was there a written contract between you and the
436
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
2
Maribyrnong Secondary College for that employment?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Honest, I can’t remember if I signed something
3
but I – I would have signed something to get paid at the
4
time.
5
MR HILL:
I – I – I can’t remember.
Perhaps you might remember how you got the job in
6
the first place.
7
paper?
8
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
Did you see an advertisement in the
I got the job because the head of the soccer
program back then, I went to uni with him.
I worked with
10
him at another club in Melbourne.
11
professional relationship with him.
12
overseas in India.
13
terms of how I went about it.
14
He knew I had a lot of experience.
15
degree but I was finishing off my degree.
16
a lot of positives behind me, as part of my planning
17
experience, that I could contribute to the school.
18
did a lot of stuff with him in the years before I got my
19
part time job in terms of – whether it was scouting or
20
whether it was helping him with training programs or
21
whatever – whatever it may be.
22
MR HILL:
23
MR R. NAPOLI:
24
MR HILL:
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
I have a good
I work with him
He – he liked what I was about in
He knew I was passionate.
He knew I had a
He knew I had
So I
What’s the name of this person?
Arthur Papas.
Arthur Papas?
Yes.
So I – I worked with him for – for an
26
extended period of time.
And then I got offered the 2011
27
job, the part time gig.
28
offered the 2012 job, 2013.
29
period speak for themselves and what I was able to
30
achieve with the players.
I did well.
Then the – I got
And the results through that
And then I went overseas to
437
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
work with him.
2
I had an interview and stuff and – yes.
3
MR HILL:
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
So throughout that process in 2012, 2013,
Who did you have the interview with?
I spoke to Rob Carol.
There was an interview
5
process with Rob Carol who was the sports director at the
6
time, or still is I think.
7
MR HILL:
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
9
When did you speak with him?
I can’t remember, but I remember I spoke to
him.
10
MR HILL:
Well, where was the interview conducted?
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
There was two parts to this.
So I floated from
12
my 2011 job to full time in 2012.
13
remember exactly the time in 2012, they floated all our
14
jobs up.
15
And then I re-interviewed and I got – on the back of that
16
I got offered a three-year contract, but I only worked
17
six months of that contract because I went overseas, and
18
I resigned on – on return.
19
MR HILL:
Then it was – I can’t
So they floated and we had to re-interview.
Let’s see if we understand what you’re saying.
20
2011 you were approached to do part time work at the
21
Maribyrnong Secondary School.
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
24
MR R. NAPOLI:
25
MR HILL:
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
28
MR R. NAPOLI:
29
MR HILL:
30
In
Yes.
And you were asked to do that by Arthur Papas.
He offered me the job at the time, yes.
Yes.
You did not attend any interview.
At that time?
At that time.
Not that I can remember.
And you made no application for a job that was being
advertised.
438
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
Well, I guess in sport, people want to work
2
with who they’re comfortable with so I – yes, I don’t
3
know.
4
5
6
7
MR HILL:
I just – I got offered the job.
I took it.
Was he a person known to your father at that time in
2011?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Not – not really.
No, he – he knew of dad but
not – I - - -
8
MR HILL:
How did he know your father?
9
MR R. NAPOLI:
Through me.
Yes.
So – but he’s not one to –
10
to wine and dine with dad or anything.
11
he knows him through me.
12
games when I was playing, and stuff, but not – you know,
13
I wouldn’t call them close friends or anything.
14
MR HILL:
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
16
MR HILL:
17
MR R. NAPOLI:
18
Yes.
Yes.
Again without interview, at least initially.
Well, on the back of the work I – I had
completed, obviously they were happy.
MR HILL:
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
21
MR HILL:
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
25
He would see dad at soccer
And you were then offered a full time position.
19
24
Like, he just –
And who offered you the full time position?
Rob Carol at the time.
Right.
And I – I accepted it.
And he was the sports director of the Maribyrnong
Secondary College.
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
Like, he used to run the sports side of
26
it so – I think he still does.
27
Rob in a long time so – yes, that’s – that’s how I got my
28
jobs.
29
30
MR HILL:
I – I haven’t really seen
And then - - And what did your job entail, firstly, when you were
working part time?
439
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
Well, I would go every morning.
I would
2
design and run the warm-ups.
3
players who were in rehab so I would have to speak to the
4
– the physio staff that were – that worked – were working
5
at the school.
6
their rehab.
7
would work one on one with players, if they needed any
8
work on – anything to do with the gym or conditioning on
9
the field.
10
I would work with any
I would have to put the players through
I would help with the training design.
I
Yes, as part of the football conditioning
coach, that’s what my job entails so I execute it.
11
MR HILL:
But these are school students.
12
MR R. NAPOLI:
13
MR HILL:
14
MR R. NAPOLI:
Correct.
And who were they playing soccer for?
It’s a – it’s a sports college, and they’re on
15
scholarship as part of their – as part – the Maribyrnong
16
Sports College is broken up into two sectors.
17
sports academy where there’s four or five hundred student
18
athletes, and you’ve got to get a scholarship to go in
19
that.
20
MR HILL:
21
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
And then there’s the – the normal kids that
22
just – academic kids.
23
part of that sports academy.
24
25
26
27
MR HILL:
Right.
And I was working with the soccer
And who were they playing for, these
students?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Clubs, local clubs.
They would come to school.
They would get a scholarship.
28
MR HILL:
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
It’s the
They weren’t A league players?
Well, after a couple of years, there’s four or
five or six – even six players that have come out of
440
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
Maribyrnong over the three years that I worked there that
2
are now playing for A league clubs and - - -
3
MR HILL:
Who are they?
4
MR R. NAPOLI:
Tyler James, Tommy Fedavic, Joseph Monec,
5
Johnny Bogetto, Jeremy Walker - ex young Socceroo, Dylan
6
Murnane - Melbourne Victory.
Connor Metcalf just got
7
recruited to Melbourne City.
There’s a fair few – fair
8
few kids that I had significant – or made significant
9
contribution to their - - -
10
MR HILL:
In 2011 or 2012?
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
2011 and 2012.
I did a lot of work with a lot
12
of those kids. There were 80 kids in the program so I
13
worked with all of them but – did significant work with a
14
lot of them.
15
MR HILL:
Your bank records also indicate payments made into
16
your account by a company known as Encino, E-n-c-i-n-o,
17
Proprietary Limited, $2000.
18
MR R. NAPOLI:
19
MR HILL:
20
21
When was this?
Firstly, is the name Encino Proprietary Limited
known to you?
MR R. NAPOLI:
I’ve seen this stuff at home.
I was – I found
22
out that that’s my cousin’s company – one of my cousin’s
23
companies.
24
MR HILL:
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
29
30
So - - -
Which cousin?
I think Carlo and Lou.
That’s Carlo and Lou Squillacioti?
Correct.
And why would they be paying $2000 into your
account?
MR R. NAPOLI:
At what date?
And when was that?
441
UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR HILL:
25 July 2008.
2
MR R. NAPOLI:
There was a period of time many years ago, and
3
I can’t remember the exact date or year, that I sold my
4
car to Lou’s son, and the approximate amount that they –
5
that Lou’s son paid me for that car was $2000.
6
old Ford.
7
MR HILL:
8
MR R. NAPOLI:
9
know.
Did he pay you by cheque or cash?
MR HILL:
11
MR R. NAPOLI:
12
MR HILL:
14
No, obviously through my account.
I don’t
Yes.
10
13
It was an
The - - That was something that dad organised.
The entry in your account reads “Encino Proprietary
Limited, office furniture supplies”.
MR R. NAPOLI:
I don’t know.
All I know is that – if you ask
15
me whether I got $2000 off Lou or Daniel, his son, for my
16
car, that’s the only thing I can remember $2000 coming
17
from them.
18
had been paid into – I had been given the money.
19
yes.
20
21
MR HILL:
All right.
So I –
R and D Diamond Nominees Proprietary
Limited.
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
24
But dad organised that, and he said that it
Yes.
Who are R and D Diamond Nominees Proprietary
Limited?
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
My Uncle Rob and Auntie Dominica.
And that company paid $1600 into your account.
Yes, that was for – around the World Cup 2010,
28
so we bought a new television at home.
29
television and my PlayStation that I had – and my brother
30
we sold to my uncle and his little son, and they – I was
442
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That was my
R.A. NAPOLI
1
given $1600 for it.
2
the payment for that.
3
account.
4
MR HILL:
And once again mum and dad organised
So that was put directly into my
No, you will recall me asking you about the $75,000
5
that was credited to your account through salary payments
6
and superannuation payments made through On The Ball
7
Personnel Australasia Proprietary Limited, but our
8
question is this:
9
$80,372.06 was withdrawn and went to – perhaps I will put
your account reveals that in total,
10
it this way:
11
accounts, particularly for the years 2007 and 2012?
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13
MR R. NAPOLI:
have you in recent times studied your bank
That timeframe?
You’re talking about 2007 to
2012?
14
MR HILL:
Yes.
15
MR R. NAPOLI:
When I – as I said, when I got home I started
16
to look through things a little bit more when I found out
17
what was going on, but I haven’t studied it thoroughly,
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but I understand a little bit about it, and I really
19
studied the 2011, 2012 to give me an understanding.
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21
MR HILL:
Do you understand that a lot of money was moved out
of your account to the benefit of your father?
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
MR HILL:
24
Well, where did all the money go that went into your
account?
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
27
MR R. NAPOLI:
28
MR HILL:
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30
I don’t know that.
Which money are you talking about?
Let’s start with On The Ball Personnel.
Yes.
From 2004 to 2011, in total there is somewhere in
the vicinity of $120,000.
MR R. NAPOLI:
Yes.
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R.A. NAPOLI
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MR HILL:
Where did that money go?
period of some seven years.
MR R. NAPOLI:
MR HILL:
6
MR R. NAPOLI:
7
MR HILL:
9
10
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12
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That – well, that’s money that was – I was told
was given to me.
5
8
That’s $120,000 over a
Yes.
Yes.
Well, what did you do with it?
Did you use it?
Or
did it go to your father?
MR R. NAPOLI:
I used it, because that’s what I was told –
that it was my money, so I - - MR HILL:
So it paid, for example, when you were overseas, for
the airfares?
MR R. NAPOLI:
I – you would have to ask my dad about that.
14
don’t know if that’s the case, what it specifically paid
15
for.
16
live off the money that was going into my account based
17
on what my dad said.
18
19
MR HILL:
But I used to go to the ATM, take money out and
How much were you taking out in cash from the ATM
each week?
20
MR R. NAPOLI:
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MR HILL:
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
23
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I can’t remember.
Well, approximately.
$100, for petrol and some food when I was at
uni or work, or wherever.
MR HILL:
Yes, $100 to $200.
Because you were living at home.
You weren’t paying
any board or expenses at home?
26
MR R. NAPOLI:
27
MR HILL:
28
I
No.
So you would have presumably been getting breakfast
and dinner at home for free?
29
MR R. NAPOLI:
30
MR HILL:
Yes.
Board’s free.
Yes?
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UNCLASSIFIEDIBAC
R.A. NAPOLI
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MR R. NAPOLI:
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MR HILL:
3
MR R. NAPOLI:
4
MR HILL:
5
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Yes.
Yes.
So your expenses would have been limited?
Correct.
Yes.
I’m just wondering where all the money went if
you’re only withdrawing say $100 or so a week.
MR R. NAPOLI:
As I said to you before, I can’t exactly
remember the amounts I was withdrawing, but I – yes.
MR O’BRYAN:
Did you have an understanding with your father
about what you could withdraw by way of upper limit each
given period?
MR R. NAPOLI:
No.
Week or fortnight?
He never said anything about that,
Commissioner.
MR HILL:
Could we have page 68 on the screen please.
This is
14
for a period in October 2007, and it’s communication
15
between your father and Ms Sharon Vandermeer, the
16
director of On The Ball Personnel.
17
you were you aware of this email at the time?
18
increase to your hours?
19
MR R. NAPOLI:
20
MR HILL:
21
I just want to ask
And an
No.
There could hardly be an increase to your hours
because you weren’t working at that time, 2007.
22
MR R. NAPOLI:
Wasn’t aware of the email.
23
MR HILL:
Nor could there have been a legitimate increase
24
No.
of your hours because you weren’t working.
25
MR R. NAPOLI:
26
MR HILL:
No.
We have a little bit more for this witness,
27
Commissioner, and I think it might be convenient to do it
28
tomorrow.
29
30
MR O’BRYAN:
It will take a little time.
All right.
Now, what do you want to do with the
documents in the folder marked 3A?
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Do you want - - R.A. NAPOLI
1
MR HILL:
We tender the document marked 3A in its entirety.
2
MR O'BRYAN:
Yes.
All right.
Well, then, the folder of bank
3
statement-related transactions in a folder marked 3A will
4
be exhibit 34.
5
6
EXHIBIT #34 FOLDER OF BANK STATEMENT-RELATED TRANSACTIONS IN
FOLDER MARKED 3A
7
MR O'BRYAN:
8
wine?
9
10
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Just a small thing.
MR R. NAPOLI:
Did - does your dad drink
No, not – he might have a glass here and there
but not that I – I wouldn’t call him a wine enthusiast.
MR O'BRYAN:
Has he tended to drink Italian wine when he
drinks it?
MR R. NAPOLI:
Homemade wine that we get from family and
14
stuff, but, yes, he will have a drop here and there, but
15
not – it’s not something that sticks out in my mind at
16
dinner.
17
MR O'BRYAN:
Yes.
18
MR HILL:
19
MR O'BRYAN:
20
MR HILL:
21
MR O'BRYAN:
22
EXHIBIT #35 PAGE 68
23
MR O'BRYAN:
I think page 68 - - Do you want to tender that?
- - - should also be tendered, Commissioner.
68 will be exhibit 35.
And then we will adjourn until 10 o’clock in the
24
morning.
Thank you.
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THE WITNESS WITHDREW
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ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, 30 APRIL 2015
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R.A. NAPOLI