Waqas Wakeel
From:
Sent:
To:
Cc:
Subject:
Weisbecker, Philipp <Philipp.Weisbecker@ksb.com>
Tuesday, November 26, 2024 3:07 PM
Waqas Wakeel
Reder, Thorsten; Nowak, Markus
AW: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435 //
KEZ-24-12790 // 9975407292 // C# 168784
Hello Waqas,
here i have some information.
(All this information’s are in the documents, that Markus sent you.)
Machine Condition of Pumps: Especially for centrifugal pumps, DIN ISO 10816-7 defines the limits of the evaluation
zones for vibrations of non-rotating components with an output above 1 kW and impellers with a number of blades ≥ 3.
The following limit values must be observed for the machines used.
So you have Category one or two, and power over or under 200 kW.
Machine Conditions of Motors: DIN ISO 20816-3 defines the limits of the assessment zones for vibrations of nonrotating components on the bearing bracket of industrial machines with a rated power of over 15 kW - 300 kW or over
300 kW when measured at the installation site. For the machines used, a maximum vibration velocity of 2.8 mm/s is
permissible for unrestricted continuous operation with rigid installation.
Table A.1 and A.2 shows different zones for different motor – building sizes (active power).
Rolling Bearing Condition: According to the vibration severity diagram in Figure 20 from DIN ISO 13373-3, a rolling
bearing is in poor condition (red zone) if the maximum peak value and the effective value of the acceleration are too
high; if the maximum peak value and the effective value of the acceleration are low, the rolling bearing is in good
condition (green zone). In the yellow zone, the condition of the rolling bearing should be reconsidered. The blue zone
is an indicator of possible measurement errors, so it is recommended to repeat the measurement.
Viele Grüße / Best Regards
Philipp Weisbecker
KSB Service GmbH
SES - System Efficiency Service
Tel.: +49 6233 86-1158
Mob.: +49 151 5674 -1222
E-Mail: philipp.weisbecker@ksb.com
KSB Service GmbH, Johann-Klein-Str. 9, 67227 Frankenthal (Germany), Tel. +49 6233 86-0, Fax +49 6233 86-3463, Sitz/Registered Office: Frankenthal (Pfalz),
Registergericht/Register of Companies: Ludwigshafen/Rhein HRB 21839, Geschäftsführer/Managing Director: Dr. Bernd Garbe
Von: Waqas Wakeel <Waqas.Wakeel@ksb.com.pk>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. November 2024 08:02
An: Weisbecker, Philipp <Philipp.Weisbecker@ksb.com>
Cc: Reder, Thorsten <thorsten.reder@ksb.com>; Nowak, Markus <Markus.Nowak@ksb.com>
Betreff: RE: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435 // KEZ-24-12790 // 9975407292 //
C# 168784
++++++ !!! EXTERNAL MESSAGE: PLEASE USE CAUTION BEFORE OPENING LINKS OR
ATTACHMENTS !!! ++++++
Dear Philip,
Thank you for your guidance. However, we have been unable to locate a standard specifically addressing gE
Values, as shown in the attached measurement image from the SKF Vibration Measurement Tool.
Could you please assist us by confirming if there is a relevant standard or guideline for gE Value limits to
address and satisfy our customer's concerns?
Your help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you !
Kind regards
KSB Pumps Company Limited
SupremeServ Pakistan
Waqas Wakeel
Warranty Manager
Tel.: +92 42 111 572 786, +92 42 36304173-74 Ext: 287
Direct: +92 42 36297620, Mobile: 0300-8465219
E-mail: waqas.wakeel@ksb.com.pk ; waqas.wakeel@ksb.com
Website: https://ksb.com.pk
KSB Pumps Company Limited, Registered Head Office, 16/2 Sir Aga Khan Road, 54000, Lahore, Pakistan.
From: Weisbecker, Philipp <Philipp.Weisbecker@ksb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2024 1:32 PM
To: Waqas Wakeel <Waqas.Wakeel@ksb.com.pk>
Cc: Reder, Thorsten <thorsten.reder@ksb.com>; Nowak, Markus <Markus.Nowak@ksb.com>
Subject: AW: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435 // KEZ-24-12790 // 9975407292 //
C# 168784
Good Morning Waqas,
i hope you doing well!
Maybe your problem with the 40 Hz is also due to resonance? Just as a note.
As for your last question, I don't think density has much of an influence, but the exception would be solids in a
medium. Maybe that could be something?
As for your other questions, that should actually all be in the standard! The decisive factor here for the RSY pump is
the performance class, based on which the values are classified.
Be sure to save the standards for the future, they answer most questions.
Viele Grüße / Best Regards
Philipp Weisbecker
KSB Service GmbH
SES - System Efficiency Service
Tel.: +49 6233 86-1158
Mob.: +49 151 5674 -1222
E-Mail: philipp.weisbecker@ksb.com
KSB Service GmbH, Johann-Klein-Str. 9, 67227 Frankenthal (Germany), Tel. +49 6233 86-0, Fax +49 6233 86-3463, Sitz/Registered Office: Frankenthal (Pfalz),
Registergericht/Register of Companies: Ludwigshafen/Rhein HRB 21839, Geschäftsführer/Managing Director: Dr. Bernd Garbe
Von: Wakeel, Waqas <Waqas.Wakeel@ksb.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. November 2024 12:28
An: Reder, Thorsten <thorsten.reder@ksb.com>; Nowak, Markus <Markus.Nowak@ksb.com>
Cc: Weisbecker, Philipp <Philipp.Weisbecker@ksb.com>
Betreff: RE: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435 // KEZ-24-12790 // 9975407292 //
C# 168784
Internal
Thanks Mr. Thorsten & Nowak,
I encountered an access restriction when attempting to open the link, indicating that administrator approval is
required. I hope to receive the necessary permissions soon.
Meanwhile, it would be immensely helpful if you could provide any standards or guidelines related to gE
values, as I have some customer-related queries:
1. What are the permissible gE values for Etanorm RSY 200-500 during the initial or first startup?
2. If gE values exceed allowable limits, what is the potential impact on the mechanical performance of the
pump?
3. Are gE values exclusively related to bearings?
4. Does the pump's hydraulics or application medium contribute to gE values?
(I couldn’t find the answers in attached files)
Thank you for your assistance!
Kind regards
KSB Pumps Company Limited
SupremeServ Pakistan
Waqas Wakeel
Tel.: +92 42 111 572 786, +92 42 36304173-74 Ext: 287
Direct: +92 42 36297620, Mobile: 0300-8465219
E-mail: waqas.wakeel@ksb.com.pk ; waqas.wakeel@ksb.com
Website: https://ksb.com.pk
KSB Pumps Company Limited, Registered Head Office, 16/2 Sir Aga Khan Road, 54000, Lahore, Pakistan.
From: Reder, Thorsten <thorsten.reder@ksb.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2024 3:25 PM
To: Nowak, Markus <Markus.Nowak@ksb.com>; Wakeel, Waqas <Waqas.Wakeel@ksb.com>; Weisbecker, Philipp
<Philipp.Weisbecker@ksb.com>
Subject: AW: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435 // KEZ-24-12790 // 9975407292 //
C# 168784
Dear Waqas,
let me add the information, that you can find internal as well as many international standards in our database KSB -
Pumpen, Armaturen und Service
Freundliche Grüße / Best Regards / Cordialement
Thorsten Reder
KSB Service GmbH
Operational Efficiency
Tel.: +49 6233 86 - 2575
Mobil: +49 172 7027016
E-Mail: thorsten.reder@ksb.com
KSB Service GmbH, Johann-Klein-Str. 9, 67227 Frankenthal (Germany), Tel. +49 6233 86-0, Fax +49 6233 86-3463, Sitz/Registered Office: Frankenthal (Pfalz),
Registergericht/Register of Companies: Ludwigshafen/Rhein HRB 21839, Geschäftsführer/Managing Director: Dr. Bernd Garbe
Von: Nowak, Markus <Markus.Nowak@ksb.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. November 2024 11:09
An: Wakeel, Waqas <Waqas.Wakeel@ksb.com>; Weisbecker, Philipp <Philipp.Weisbecker@ksb.com>
Cc: Reder, Thorsten <thorsten.reder@ksb.com>
Betreff: AW: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435 // KEZ-24-12790 // 9975407292 //
C# 168784
Hi Waqas,
for the RMS values you have to take the DIN ISO 10816-7 for pumps and DIN ISO 20816-3 for motors.
Regarding the bearing condition we use the DIN EN ISO 13373-3. Unfortunately I only have got the German version,
the English version is not available for us.
Freundliche Grüße/ Best Regards
KSB Service GmbH
Head of KSB SupremeServ Efficiency Consulting
Markus Nowak
Tel.: +49 6233 86 1992
Fax: +49 6233 86 3463
E-Mail: markus.nowak@ksb.com
Website: https://ksb.com, Webshop: https://shop.ksb.com, Facebook: https://facebook.com/ksb.company,
Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/company/ksb, Youtube: https://youtube.com/user/ksbcompany, Twitter:
https://twitter.com/ksbcompany
KSB Service GmbH, Johann-Klein-Str. 9, 67227 Frankenthal (Germany), Tel. +49 6233 86-0, Fax +49 6233 86-3463, Sitz/Registered Office: Frankenthal (Pfalz),
Registergericht/Register of Companies: Ludwigshafen/Rhein HRB 21839, Geschäftsführer/Managing Director: Dr. Bernd Garbe
Von: Wakeel, Waqas <Waqas.Wakeel@ksb.com>
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. November 2024 07:25
An: Nowak, Markus <Markus.Nowak@ksb.com>; Weisbecker, Philipp <Philipp.Weisbecker@ksb.com>
Cc: Reder, Thorsten <thorsten.reder@ksb.com>
Betreff: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435 // KEZ-24-12790 // 9975407292 // C#
168784
Priorität: Hoch
Dear Markus,
Good Morning,
I need your assistance with a “Reference, ISO, or KSB Standard” to address the customer's complaint. Could
you guide me or connect me with the appropriate person in KSB Germany who handles such matters?
Thank you!
Kind regards
KSB Pumps Company Limited
SupremeServ Pakistan
Waqas Wakeel
Tel.: +92 42 111 572 786, +92 42 36304173-74 Ext: 287
Direct: +92 42 36297620, Mobile: 0300-8465219
E-mail: waqas.wakeel@ksb.com.pk ; waqas.wakeel@ksb.com
Website: https://ksb.com.pk
KSB Pumps Company Limited, Registered Head Office, 16/2 Sir Aga Khan Road, 54000, Lahore, Pakistan.
From: Zain Bin Khalid <Zain.Khalid@ksb.com.pk>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2024 3:01 PM
To: Waqas Wakeel <Waqas.Wakeel@ksb.com.pk>
Cc: Iram Naz <Iram.Naz@ksb.com.pk>; Salman Safdar <Salman.Safdar@ksb.com.pk>; Syed Amir
<Syed.Amir@idea.com.pk>
Subject: FW: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435
Importance: High
Dear Waqas Sb.
Please find the email below for your reference.
We have recently done the cold alignment of the pump, hot alignment is pending, I have attached commissioning
report as well.
Customer have shared high gE values reading and asking for support, in order to get these reading in tolerance we
need to change the bearings. Please advice.
With Kind Regards,
KSB Pumps Company Limited
SupremeServ
Zain Bin Khalid
Tel: +92 21 35068302 – 09 Ext.532
Mobile: 0302-8446995
Email: zain.khalid@ksb.com.pk
KSB Pumps Company Limited, Regional Office: Plot#6 Sector 24 Main Korangi Road Korangi Industrial Area, Karachi, Pakistan
From: Syed Amir <Syed.Amir@idea.com.pk>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2024 9:43 AM
To: Zain Bin Khalid <Zain.Khalid@ksb.com.pk>
Cc: Saad.alam@idea.com.pk; Umair Subzwari <Umair.Subzwari@ksb.com.pk>; Salman Safdar
<Salman.Safdar@ksb.com.pk>; imtiaz@idea.com.pk; Ahsan Usmani <Ahsan.Usmani@ksb.com.pk>; Muhammad
Sharif <Muhammad.Sharif@ksb.com.pk>
Subject: FW: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump | CRM # 33435
Importance: High
Dear Zain,
Please take up the subject of excessive gE values observed at 40Hz while operating on VFD. Kindly be noted that this
thermal pump has recently been commissioned, please share commissioning report with client as well for reference
purpose.
Regards,
Syed Amir Ahmed
From: Kashif Noor <knoor@ismailindustries.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2024 9:10 PM
To: salman.safdar@ksb.com.pk
Cc: Furqan Hameed <fhameed@ismailindustries.com>; Ali Mohammad Qavi <aqavi@ismailindustries.com>;
saad.alam@idea.com.pk; imtiaz@idea.com.pk; syed.amir@idea.com.pk; umair.subzwari@ksb.com.pk;
asghar.khan@ksb.com.pk
Subject: Excessive gE Values - Primary HTM Circulation Pump
Importance: High
Dear Team,
Please note that we have observed excessive gE values during vibration analysis of already commissioned HTM
primary circulation pump, 38-P01B, while running at 40Hz through VFD.
Attached are the snippets for your review and we anticipate technical solution to overcome this, at earliest.
NDE Horizontal:
Velocity: 0.637mm/s
Enveloped acceleration: 2.154gE
NDE Vertical:
Velocity: 0.402mm/s
Enveloped acceleration: 6.114gE
DE Horizontal:
Velocity: 1.147mm/s
Enveloped acceleration: 5.767gE
DE Vertical:
Velocity: 0.476mm/s
Enveloped acceleration: 8.211gE
Regards,
Kashif Noor
Manager E&I
+92 320 569 0023
Ismail Resin (Pvt) Ltd.
“This email is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure,
copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. Please delete
if obtained in error and email confirmation to the sender.”