This is an oral history on the life of Master Sergeant Roy Hiroshi Matsumoto of Friday Harbor,
Washington. The interview is conducted at the residence of Grant Hirabayashi in Silver Spring,
Maryland on August 29, 2005. This oral history is conducted by the Japanese American
Veterans Association, which is a partner of the Library of Congress Veterans History Project,
and the interview tape and other material will be archived at the Library of Congress for the
benefit of scholars, researchers, historians, and filmmakers. The interviewer is Terry Shlima and
the cameraman is Grant Hirabayashi. Sajid Matsumoto was one of the 14 Japanese Americans
who served in the Merrill's Marauders.
The forerunner of the US Army Special Forces in what President Franklin Roosevelt called a
dangerous and hazardous mission. Their assignment in Burma, then a member of the British
Commonwealth, was to operate behind enemy lines to disrupt their communications, sabotage
their operations and collect intelligence information. Starting with 3,000 men, highly trained in
guerrilla warfare, the Moragas fought 5 major battles and ended their final operation, the capture
of the town of Mishnah with only 200 men fit for further combat. The war department's prediction
of 85% casualties was on the mark. The capture of Michener was important because it put in
Allied hands the all weather airport and access to the Burma Road.
The use of which were crucial for the flow of all material from India to China. Matsumoto served
with distinction in combat, exposing himself to enemy fire and repeatedly taking high risks to
achieve the Marauder's objectives. His knowledge of the Japanese regional dialect spoken by
the enemy produced intelligence that saved 600 men of his track battalion from being
annihilated. With the enemy defeated at at Nipungga, the siege broken, this paved the way for
the Marauder's final capture of Michena. But let's hear it from Roy to tell his story.
Roy, please state your name and the date and place of your birth. My name is, Roy Matsumoto
and I was born in, PlaceCo Laguna. That's Oscar City of Los Angeles in Los Angeles County in
on May 1, 1913. Yeah. And your your your ancestors, from where did they come to America?
From a a a prefecture called Hiroshima. It's a southern part of, Honshu Island. And when was
that? It was late, 1800. My grandfather, Wakamatsu Matsumoto, he had been, youngest, son in
the family.
Therefore, at the Japanese custom, the younger brothers always either work for father or eldest
brother because the Japanese custom is that the eldest son would inherit what the family has
including wells or even a debts, the eldest have to share, assume the responsibility. Therefore,
my, young, my grandfather being the youngest, he, would have been working for the brother,
but, he had a cousin, and a second cousin. She she was, his girlfriend and then decided to
leave a family. So therefore they married Yuan and, had the 2, sibling. And, one is my father.
Then, he and his wife was looking for the job and and the Japanese government, offer for
contract labor go to Hawaii and work in the sugar can field or pineapple, plantation. So he,
volunteered and his wife, went to Hawaii then, my, uncle was born and, since his birth, says it's
Kauai, so must have been the island of Kauai. Then my auntie was born. Then, when he
finished the contract, probably about 5 years because I had a 2 siblings. And, he let his wife,
that is my paternal grandmother, and, 2, one is, my uncle, Gophrank, and, auntie Masayo.
And let them go back to Japan and he himself came to Seattle, mainland, then went down to
Southern California. By Hiroshima being country, we're facing the inland sea in the mountainous
place so, they didn't have a much of a farming area. Therefore the most of the people are, half
farmers and half fishermen. So, yeah, he know how to farm, therefore he started farming there.
This is a place called Laguna in Los Angeles County just out of Skirrup.
And there was at the time nothing but hay ranches, but, he decided to cultivate and start the
tract farm. Good. Now, you yourself when you grow up when you grew up in Laguna, was it in a
mixed community or Japanese community? No other community at all. Just a wide open place
in the few Mexican, far workers and a few Caucasian here and there at the ranch owners.
So, it's a but I have no community at all and there was just a wide isolated place. And right now
is Right now it's yes. Exploring in a city now. A lot of it. And so at what age did you then go to
Japan?
I was born in Laguna and, there across the Sanxu River, a place called, Hruceland and they had
a grammar school. So I was, attending there. So I must be about 3rd grade, so about 8 years
old. And, my grandfather being the youngest son in the family and at the time when he was
born, his father that would be my great grandfather passed away and great grandmother
remarried and next prefecture that is Yamaguchi but south of Hiroshima. And so the son being,
my grandfather's half brother.
Then since that he, came to, United States instead of as a brother going to Hawaii, my,
grandfather asked him to come to him to help him farming. So, they, came in the work.
Meantime, my uncle who were born in Kauai, were grown up and joined my grandfather and
also same as my father joined grandfather. So all the family plus, the Hiroshima, that area south
of the city of Hiroshima, most of people were, either blood literature or in laws, so they know
each other. So a lot of people, respect to my grandfather, being a elder and more or less
pioneer.
So come to his place and, he was a good man. Let them work and let them learn to trade Then,
year or 2, let them have their own, farm to farm and they cannot own the land there so they
have to lease from, other people who own the, hay ranches, folk wars. And my great uncle
because of grandfather's half brother, he came to my place but there was a, when I was, 8 years
old. Okay. But my grandfather, he made a little money and went to Japan to retire because he
had his wife in Japan.
Mhmm. So what happened was, normally, you know, they, season come, they plant. But, seed
men come and get the seed but he doesn't plant and delay, 3 weeks or months later, then, plant.
So everybody plant the same time so market be flooded. Mhmm.
And supply and demand, prices are very, you know, cheap but after they harvested they have to
plant again. Meantime, the cramp were, pretty scarce so he made a little money on that. So he
made retired before 50 years old and went to Japan. And when what year did you go to Japan?
So that year was, 1921.
19 I was 8 years old. I see. And, it was a summertime and grand uncle came to me and said,
would you like to go see your grandfather in Japan? Mhmm. So he was very fond of me.
I liked him. So I wanna see him. That is about when I was 5 years old he went to Japan. So if
you say we agree, then I also had a kid brother 1 year younger, and, so he agreed. So both the
2 of us went to summertime.
Then I had a great time And since he was a half fisherman before, so when he retired, he,
obtained a fishing boat, didn't go fishing. So he took me to the summer vacation. So I I like that
and, he was a very clever man. And when he was catch fish, he doesn't take to market right
away. He put them in the, big bamboo cage and keep it there when it rain or storm then he
would scoop up till market and good price.
And he wasn't making money but, he will smart. He didn't because he was retired, he didn't
need, you know, money right away. So I like, then somewhat almost over, so I have to go back
to school start. Right. Then, this, my great uncle, mister Namanaka, Yasak was the name and
he says sayonara, you know, goodbye.
What do you mean goodbye? See, I'm not going home. He said, no. You stay here with your
grandfather and mother. I see.
And that's why I end up and lived in Japan. So how many years did you were you in Japan? So,
about 8 years I think so because, I returned in 29. So 21 is about 8, 9 years. But the meantime,
they because I didn't speak Japanese and don't know anything, but since my brother and I
started 1st grade, see, in 6th grade, and, fortunately, my, grandfather, maternal grandfather was
a kendo, you know, instructor for Rodo Asano.
No. Before Meiji era, you know. And he was, because my, mother being the youngest when
we're in Japan, I'm sorry to say but, I never met my grandfather who passed away. Oh.
Because, you know, old man.
Sure. But, he was very well respected. So and, I had a good maternal grandmother and I enjoy
staying with her. And, the school I went was the name, Shudo Middle School. The middle school
name but the actually high school equivalent of United States High School.
I see. And so the school name is Shudo is happened to be, Lord, you know, someone of Klam's
school institution. I see. Now they have a university there but, they have, high school and
university is still standing there. But anyway, I was privileged to attend that school.
So when you were in Japan, was Japan already on a war footing? Well, they not exactly war but
there were, you know, activity in China. But, this was the 29 and the depletion time. So they're
way before war. So I never explained.
But since, in Japan, all the student were required to take, military trainings including you. Junior
ROTC and, you have to learn the tactics. And including you, you took you took the training.
Yeah. You so and I still have a field manual.
I learned and this came in handy a few years later. Right. That's what I was gonna say. Well, so
in to, you you were in Japan. Your sister was also there.
And when did your other brothers go to Japan? Well, I and the next, you know, kid brother was 1
year different. So we went together. I thought I thought the vacation That's right. But they both of
us stayed there.
And, then, when I went to high school started, then what they did was that, my mother was a
very, you know, clever I suppose and did the same thing what the grandfather did it. So made
little money and I think it was a cabbage or something, you know, and they made a little money
then they needed the, you know, they thought to give them a Japanese education so old fanny
went back to Japan. But I was at the time first, I was living with, grand parents in Hiroshima, at
the outskirts about a few miles south of the city. Now that, the city, you know, consolidated in the
town so the city got big so right next door to it. And right now they call Hatsukai ichi city and
right next to Hiroshima.
I see. Will you were you fully accepted by the other Japanese students who were born and
raised there? You a foreigner? Yeah. Were you fully Well, so happened that as I tell you before,
the poor country, so most of them went to Hawaii or the United States right after after my
grandfather.
It would be early 19th century. Right. So, half of well, about 1 third were, born in United States. I
see. But the the Japanese born, they looked down at because they don't speak, good
Japanese.
So they, you know, pointed at me, you say, you dumb, Indians, I mean, the immigrant kid.
Uh-huh. And that that, you know, made me mad. And one time, we were playing baseball and, I
eventually swung and hit the guy and happened to be my neighbor's friend but he was a
Japanese Japan born and, almost killed me. He's one day he was unconscious and I thought it
killed.
That's and I thought it killed. That time ever since I, tried to hold my temper. I I was pretty, you
know, temperamental guy, kid. And make me mad every time call me, you know, dumb, you
know, immigrant kid. But there were others but, someone went to earlier to learn the Japanese
when the school started, my classmate.
And, so well, that's about, you know, you just then I get to know and start to speak, become a
good friend. But before that, I got all kind of, you know. During your the course of your stay in
Japan, Roy Yeah. What, what is your most memorable moment? Well, I I didn't have, but I also,
wishing, you know, summertime come and, go with fishing with grandfather.
And then he is old man and his finger is not too sensitive. Whereas we are just fish in Italy,
already I know the fish is there. So catch him. So I catch twice as many fish than he does. So
that's why he wanna take me there too.
Very smart. And so, that's, you know well, I didn't think of anything about a future. I was just
enjoying my life and, I get to know a lot of people and, until, you know, I left Japan. Well, while
you were while you were growing up who, if there is anyone, who was the greatest influence on
your life? My grandfather.
He taught me, everything. So even though, lowing and going out, he taught me then gave me
the stories and the whole whole Japanese customer and because I don't know anything about
Japan to start with. So, how to say certain words and and, all time thing. Then, at the time when
grandfather, you know, growing up didn't have a school. Went to Port Teravoya and go to temple
and the priest will teach him.
Then that's why he said he learned and the best to learn whenever possible. Now, you know, his
wishes and I just carry out. That's why even though I'm not well educated but, I try to learn and
come to their hand if they don't. On. Good.
So when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor Mhmm. Of course, you were already in Yeah. Back in the
States. Yes. Were what were you doing when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7,
1941?
No. Well, after I came back, see 29 and 30s and it was a depression time, then I graduate from
Long Beach Polytechnic High School in 1933 in June. And then, job was scarce so I was
working for the, fruit stand and then, you know, people work my auntie had a barbershop and
the one with the customer happened to be salesman for the grocery store in Uptown Los
Angeles, happened to be named. He know the grocery company and he was a salesman and
he said he's gonna, you know, quit because he's working hourly wages and long hours but
doesn't make much money. And he said he know well enough to start his own.
He had said that enough. So so need a replacement. So since I speak a Japanese and English,
yeah, how about, you know, being his replacement? Try him anyway. So he took me to, mister,
well, any owner.
So so first thing he asked me, do you speak English? Because a lot of, you know, Kibes
returned from Japan at depression time, so didn't go to school. Hard to support himself so he
have to make a living. Therefore, you know, a lot of Japanese who didn't speak English well. But
since I know I, my, grandma my, grandfather taught me keep on studying and also, my mother
told me to, at least finish high school.
So even the depression time and, I have to able to graduate. So I I told him, I, I'm a high school
graduate. Oh, he said, good. And can you drive? I said, yes, sir.
I have a chauffeur license. The good, man, you cannot be because you don't know the price
with can of, you know, bamboo shoot or anything like that. So cannot be a salesman, but I need,
you know, English speaking truck driver. I mean, a delivery boy. So then he, he says, would you,
you know, even though that that the wages would be low, but so okay I could learn, you know.
So I accept the job and, I start to work there. Okay. And then, one Sunday morning, I wanna go
to this my auntie's braids haircut, free free haircut. And start come on right about the pent
o'clock. I turn the radio on and says, you know, Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor.
Was a big surprise to me. I never accept because I was reading Japanese papers and they
didn't mention that but all of a sudden, you know, the Pearl Harbor and I was just stunned
because I didn't expect it. So No. While I was going to my auntie's place, then I went to tell her
the Warburra College. So in a so, then of course, you know, there was the 9 executive order 90
0.
And you, you you you and your family had to be evacuated. Yeah. Well, my family or they went
to Japan but I have a uncle and they they grant, you know, my great uncle, the family there. And
the reason that, see, when I came back my, uncle was in, Ocean Park, just, the city of Santa
Monica. And say I have somebody to depend on, but since he is a gardener and stay in the
boarding house, I cannot stay.
But I didn't wanna go to my, great uncle, Chris. He's the one left me in Japan. Oh, yeah. So I
was a kind of mad. Anyway, I went there then, well, he, put my work and used a hole and, you
know, cutting my wheels and everything else, and that that is after school.
So, I I, I told him I'm gonna get the job, but he didn't pay me. He don't give me any money. So I,
classmate, I asked, you know, I'm looking for job. And so I asked him that, the one with the girl
and the classmate, had the wholesale, fruits, you know, vegetable stand, and he needed help.
So I actually decided to go there.
And this is Long Beach, so I went to Long Beach Poly, Long Beach High Technical High School
and Polytechnical High School. Then I was able to, you know, continue my education. And so so
after you were evacuated then Sure. I mean the family, you know, my family is in Japan, but
meantime, what happened was the people, they had brothers operating and one brother went to
Monterey and bought apple, green apple, and was unsalable because it's too green and Oh. So
the brothers, start to fight.
Then I was in between and I have to get up at 3 o'clock in the morning, go market, open up.
Then I went to, tried to wake him up and smell gas, then had his brother had a, this gas hose in
his mouth. Oh. So I put out, open the door, then I was so embarrassed. After that, I have to, you
know, leave the place because I'm comfortable.
And we're fortunately, he didn't die so I saved his life. But, they fought each other in in on
account of, you know, at the time, it was depression time. So instead of making money, losing
money, you know, unsave were apples or couldn't even make apple juice, you know. Right. So,
the the next door, the town mister Tommy Izumi had the same next store.
Oh. So he said, you come to work for me. So picking me up and then I was a total stranger
neighbor, but, then, I was working for him. And one day he goes to Los Angeles and buy
produce at the 9th and 7th market and bring back to Long Beach, produce market. But on the
way back to Alameda Boulevard, it's very foggy, so he pulled into the back of the truck.
Oh, then they had an accident in the critical zone. I went to see him and he told me to, you
know, I think I know I won't make be able to make it but that he had wife and the 2 young girl so
please look after them. He says, okay, we do. So that's I promise do. Meantime, I have no place
to go so, then in the meantime I paid for Japanese community in the city and people, a total
stranger, offered me to come his place.
So happened that that his name is, Mr. Yamaguchi from Kagoshima. Mhmm. Okay. Then, you
know, well, glad because I know where to go and I talked to other people but depression time
they cannot, you know, able to, you know, hire anybody.
But this gentleman is telling the what I do, you know, he happened to have a dry cleaning shop.
Oh. And you don't mind anything about that so stay out of office, you know. I mean, a plant. The
only thing you do is that she had a 3 he had a 3 girls or elementary school, see.
So I'm since I'm going to high school, so how about tutor? They made me do yard work around
there. You don't do anything, see. So I give you spending money, so let you finish school.
Mhmm.
And he's a savior. So when, Woah broke up, he being a, you know, businessman plus he was in
charge of the Japanese language school, you know, I don't know one of the, you know, board
member or whatever pick him up. And so the lady, don't know what to do. Mhmm. So when a
vacation order came you could relocate yourself first.
Mhmm. So I decided to, go over there because they saved me and so we thought either go to
Salt Lake City or Denver, Colorado. So therefore, I happen to have a car so they get the trailer
and the fact they find out that the tire and the gasoline were rationed for an award. Therefore,
he had a flat tire in the desert. So what year was this?
This is a right up evacuation time. Oh, I see. Well, the time I'm telling you, it was, when they
they took care of me was when I attending a high school. So I graduated from a high school
from his home. Right.
And the total stranger, I'm from Hiroshima and, they were from Kagoshima. Mhmm. But, I I was
unable to, you know, learn Kagoshima dialect but they're they're too fast and too much different
but, you want to what? So Roy, you didn't go to, the Denver, but instead you were placed in the
relocation center. Yes.
I waited, you know, let the government handle, because we don't know where to go and we
didn't know anybody out of state, so decided to wait. Then I moved with this family even though
I was more in Los Angeles, work in Los Angeles, but I went with the Long Beach group because
I wanna take care of this family because Hudson the intern in in Texas, Crystal City or whatever
I didn't know, but the FBI picked him up. So I decided to stick with, so that's my family. So we
went together to Santa Anita. And since I work from grocery store and before that vegetable so
Santa Anita keep myself busy and since, I was, my farm boy too.
So I volunteered to do the, you know, food service. So they may in charge since I speak
English, you know, that is they don't. So even though I'm a young kid, but I have supervised the,
the, you know, attorney and help me, peeling potatoes, you know, they had a potato machine
and, peel the cabbage and, top the turnip and thing like that. I was in charge until I've been I've
been there about, 5 months or something like that. That's the center and the The center and the
racetrack.
And from there But, yeah. Then the last group, when opened up the lower in Jerome camp and
they send us I got going to train and, the blinds, the the window, you know, that closed and went
through with the Texarkana and ended up in Jerome. So you're this is Jerome, Arkansas? Oh,
Jerome, Arkansas. And so how long were you in Jerome?
Well, a couple months because about 3 months, I think was the summertime. So I don't know
exactly remember but, in November, the recruiting also come around and That's November of
1941. 1942. 1942. Yeah.
And at the time when I I wanna get out but I have no, you know, way of doing it, no excuse. And,
I tried to get out there any means except escaping because they had a machine gun facing
toward inside. So I don't want I'm there going towards the fence, you know. But fortunately, give
my get out to camp is to, you know, comply with their, you know, which is the recruiting officer
come around and ask me whether I would like So I volunteer in the, the date, happened to be
12th November 1942. And when you when you and when you when you when you volunteered,
what was the what was your assignment?
What did they say you were going to do? Well, they said, recruit the officers, you know, learn
Japanese. So that was I thought, oh, Japanese I know. So, it's easy. I didn't hesitate.
And not combat. That's the time, they didn't recruit it for, combat. They recruit for the, language,
you know, specialist. So they told me whether you speak a Japanese or not. I said, yes.
I'm Kibei and, I went to school in Japan. It's okay. So they give you a little test, you know. But, I I
I didn't make a good grade. I just I know I passed because they needed anybody who know and
Read and write Japanese, so I was accepted.
And you had your basic training in in Kent Shelby? Yes. But that that is after she, graduate from
school. Okay. Well, first, we went to, Fort Snelling and that's why we'd be issued uniform and
equipment.
Then, sent to about 18 miles south of Birmingham, which is called Camp Savage. And that's
why we stopped camp is camp savage, then Camp Savage, and somewhat, you know, then, I
think was at June. Send it to Camp Shelby, Mississippi. And at that time, they're forming a 4 40
second. Then we did you train in Cam Shelby with In Cam Shelby, the basic infantry training so
we did a whole circle.
With the 4 42nd. 4 42nd, right? The American conduct team. Yes. So that was from, that was
from?
That's a summer of Summer of 1944. 19 no. 43. Oh, summer Because I'm the class of,
December 1942 class. I say in the 43, they graduated.
I see. They finished basic training in 43 summer. In the September, we left for unknown district
but, then assignments. Now, so in the summer of 1943, you graduated from your training in
Kempt Shelby. Yes.
And, then from that point, how did you get into, the what is it? 5307? Yes. 5307. Okay.
And so that was called the Galahad? Galahad. Yeah. Okay. So when they recruited you, they
recruited you for Galahad.
Yes. What did they say? I well, they talk about, they said, dangerous and hazardous mission
and but, the proposition was good. After, the campaign is over probably less about 3 months,
then you'll be rotating screw, you know, steak size. Oh, no.
What was the bait, I think. Anyway, we all graduate, so he will be assigned somewhere. But
then, I understand almost everybody volunteer. But I do volunteer, but everybody says, okay, I
volunteer too. Reluctantly, you know, because I didn't know what's gonna go on.
But then they call me in the office and, you volunteer, you go and see. But what happened was I
had a soldier named, Hank Gocher, and he happened to be, section 2 in the upper classes. And
Grant, here by actually happened to be the top grade section 1. Then, Grant, Henry Gosher and
myself in section 2. So the top 3 when, we've been accepted.
But he is the one probably put my name on it to suggest that I be gone. But I I wasn't
interviewed before. Just they told me you're gone, see. Because they were very volunteer. So
you and you and you, but I happened to pick me.
So I was glad, you know. But at the time, I don't pray that smart, you know. I don't wanna argue
with the in StarCraft or someone. And I just keep quiet and the Mary made the grave. It's easy
for me.
So meantime, I study other things such as military terms and things like that. Instead of I don't
have to remember kanji, how to read. I already knew. Yeah. Some people said that you know
better than some instructor, but, that's a beside the point.
But, anyway, able to join the unit. So from Cape Shelby, you joined Gilead? Yes. And then
where did you go? Well, Gilead, took about 40 days of sale from Fort Mason.
But meantime, we've been Fort Mason, California. Fort Mason, California. San Francisco Okay.
California. Then, we, headed toward an SS blue line in blackberry liner from Hawaii and, we
converted into troop ship.
So, couple of 1,000, you know, got on there, then a tour going there. So we started going to
Hawaii, you know, and bypassed us there, end up in, numeric, Caridonia. Okay. And the final
then pick up few people, we didn't get off. Then we went to Brisbane, Australia.
Okay. Then we didn't get off, then then they pick up some more troop from south side, you
know, Pacific troop. We had an experience in Guadalcanal. They were also gallblad people.
They're gallblad people.
3rd battalion pickup. So then, we went on, Australia and, Fremonta, you know, Perth. Right.
Right there in the dock. And the first time we got on, you know, land and hike and, then the
Chinese, you know, serve as a beer.
So that was something. But anyway, then we get on and we don't know where and the rumor
said that we're gonna go to Ceylon, you know, Sri Lanka now. But, then you find out that
Japanese, you know, submarine. That's the rumor, see, lurking around there. So we decide to
go on Bombay.
But I think of the final destination is Bombay anyway. Right. But, we ended Bombay after 40 half
day and went to a camp, Diolari, it's a British camp. Then, start to train in tent city, then our own
is, Diolar is by the river Bethua river. Okay.
So we have combat training, a jungle training they call long range penetration or whatever in the
jungle training anyway Started, October, November until January. At that point, was it still
Gallahad or Yeah. Still Gallahad. And that's when, first of, Yeah. February 50.
They form a 5307, composite regimen. 1st February? Yeah. Yeah. And Nicole But the 50 7
composite regimen.
Yeah. Yeah. But then Colonel Hunter is supposed to be in regimental commander. Right.
Colonel.
But then, still general still appointed the, brigadier general Frank v Merrill. So, you know, a
general, you know, don't go to the regiment so they change the name instead of composite unit
instead of regiment. Alright. So name changed to composite unit program. This was February
what year?
44. 44. Yeah. And, we started in February, I think. We start to march at a place called, you know,
meantime, we've been, put on a train in about a 1000 mile, then we went to Baramputta River
on the ferry, you know, side wheeler and went up to place called Margarita and then in the
meantime I'm getting a different train, different gauges and a lot of transfer, finally end up in
Presco Lido in Assam, India.
It's a Burgesa border there. Then, we start off in 7th and arrive at, Shin Biang, I think is that her
name. And in the big wreck, that that's a stadium area. Then we left on the 24th February
actually getting the combat. 24th February 1940.
That's when you started your combat. Combat. Yes. And so, at that point then, and how did how
did the 5307 get the name Merrill's Marauder? Well, some paper editor instead of recording a lot
of like, 50 7 composing unit, so they nickname, you know, since Merrill in charge made the
marauder then since Merrill in charge, so called Merrill Marauders.
I see. Merrill's Marauders. Now Okay. I think the name of the Shipley who, you know, at the
Time Magazine, I think. So you had considerable training in the States?
Yes. And then, of course, in India, you had further training, general training. Yes. And that was
with the British Right. Or under the British.
Mhmm. And, did you feel that all of this training that you receive was, was adequate? Well, do
you know I I don't think it's adequate but it was helpful, you know, because we didn't know. And,
especially we, 14 men where, somewhere already soldier came from 100th battalion in Hawaii,
and these I had a training. But we're a student, like us that came from the camp.
We didn't have, you know, the basic training just that we are the linguist and we are specialist,
but, we are military intelligence, not the infantry, but the unit beings and fortunately we are not
attached. We are assigned. So remember, so we crushed fire as an infantry, rightful man plus
interpreter. And and, but to me, see, because me, myself, it's inadequate because I didn't have
enough training. You know, the the word that you use Roy that you were the the the 14
Japanese Americans were attached.
It's not attached, assigned. I'm I'm sorry. I mean, assigned is a very important factor. Right.
Many of the other Japanese Americans who are And the Pacific and the Pacific were simply
attached.
Right. And so they The word open. It's a tremendous difference. That's right. And so that means
that being that you were assigned to the unit Mhmm.
It gave you a very different feeling for being a part of the team. See. So I had the 2 to be
different, you know. That's part of a team and not just attached to it. So Now, before you had
your first, combat, experience, what were you told of your mission?
Well, our mission is, penetrate behind the enemy line. So that's why instead of going through
road, we go through the trail in the jungle. Then, you know, unfortunately, we just get into there,
you know, base point of call, Wallabong. But the 3rd battalion went first so they're the ones
stopped, you know, but they were on the reserve, at the first time. And that was, February about
3rd.
And, the 3rd battalion is already fighting by the river, by Hualapong, but with I just the first my
encounter with the enemy. So that, the first battle was at Hualaban? Yes. And to get to
Hualaban, how did you get there? By by hiking or By hiking.
By hiking. I mean, how many people carry the, you know, equipment. We didn't have any
mechanical, no Jeep or truck, tank, nothing, just your, you know, gear on the back and we will
carry the signal equipment or, you know, motor and things like that, or their, you know, their rash
and so forth. So we are hiking sometime when we have to cut through the, you know, the vines
and bamboo stick it and so forth. But there was a trail so it wasn't too bad, but when we first do
it.
Then, I came to open was place called Wollabong and, there was a road before but the
Japanese, improved that so that the tank and truck go through there. But you did not use a
road? No. No. We didn't do the road.
We just came to the open. But anyway, they stopped the shooting so we have to take a cover.
Then we found the road so, we decided to block the road. If a truck go by, they have to stop
because we laid a log there on that road. So then they stopped when we know we opened up
with a machine gun that, made a load block and, a few mile, you know, knows of a place of 3rd
battalion was fighting and, near the we stay near the river crossing there.
So the second battalion was in the reserve and the first and the third battalion was a battalion
that was deployed for action. Action. In the Uh-huh. Then we started, we for the 38 hours
without, you know, we don't have any rations, so eat up and and no drop in the, you know,
climate zone. So we've been starving, you know, and hungry, and we decided to withdraw.
But, there was a reason for it, you know, the withdrawal but we don't call withdrawal, we call
strategic we don't we don't call retreat, do we call strategic withdrawal. Strategic withdrawal.
Well, to lots of gods. Right? Then we got the ration drop.
So the rations and all of your equipment, and supplies, were were delivered to you by air drop?
By air air drop. Yes. Certain part, we make a code, you know, make a spot and then let them
know where it would be and and they, fly low and drop the ration and the ammunition or
supplies. Well, when they drop from the air that was in with that was within the view of the
enemy.
Yes. So the did the enemy try to also retrieve the same drop? Well, not at the park but, later on,
the second battalion came to place called Ngapunga, then we're on top of hill. I see. So Breeze,
you know, the drift away the parachute Right.
So and and the enemy area, you know, so we lose that. But, so, after after Wollongong, the next
Where at at Waloboam? After Waloboam, the, the next battle site was, Shadalupe. Well, it's a
grant that mentioned that, you know, we talk about the wiretap at the Wallabom. What happened
was, when, I was on the INR platoon, so first group to get there even though we're reserved and
the 3rd battalion already fighting a few mile up north.
But when they came, we didn't know that was their base. Then what happened was I see, I don't
know how an opportunity to first group to get there then, well, long story make sure. I look up
then the wire shrunk up the top of the tree. And then, you know, we saw the hour because 30,
but I know already there. So maybe I thought it was communication wire, you know, to observer.
But then I asked them without hours, They they they I don't think so. So it happened that, we
had heavy weapons platoon, and the man in charge, the name was, Phil Piazza. He was a
lieutenant. Then he had the handset, so I followed that. They climbed up a tree and the captain
was a live wire.
And the Japanese, and they excited about the enemy around there. And we didn't know that
was their base there in the in the wood Mhmm. In the jungle. But I see on the side, it was open.
The roads were there.
Mhmm. So of course when they occupied, you know, they didn't come through yet but, some
people guarding in a supply, you know, dump. So but, in tapping the wire, they get excited. 1
sergeant in the corner headquarter, that the enemy is around here. Japanese sergeant.
Japanese sergeant, you know, on the wire and, get excited. They're telling a headquarter that,
this wire happened to be from a headquarter and came in, a Japanese 18 division to up in the
north, in the front line, in the wire, and on the road they have telephone poles. Right. But, in the
jungle they hang wire in the tree. And I happen to tap that then they're talking strange, you
know, dialect.
So happened that this was, Fukuoka'i dialect, see. And then, I found out that, sergeant was
excited. He only had 2 men with the rifle guard in the place and happened to be ammunition
dump. Mhmm. And they excited.
Don't know what to do. So I have to dump but they said they cannot send in the help, you know,
and do best what I can do. In the meantime, they asked of which one. This is 1,000 meters from
the river. I see.
53 -:30 min mark:
So happened that we have a map which is supplied and also they have their map. Map is the
one, they captured from the British. I see. So we are using the same map. So coordinate 1,000,
you know, yard from, I mean, they don't say southern yards, 1,000 meters.
So we we just use the compass to see where the top is. So we know exactly where we start
looking at. But according to my commanding officers report, they said they located I mean
estimated whereabout. So they pointed that this smoke, you know, round then so that they could
see, you know, how they contact the airport. Yeah.
P 38 and and I mean the 32 Then, you know, dropped the bomb and went to smoke. But,
actually, I heard the noise, but I didn't see that, you know, because I was on the tree. And, but,
anyway How long after that did you stay on the tree? Well, I stayed there on the tree only
because, for 3 days? No.
Well, every no. Well, I have to come down and take a crack, but, anyway, I didn't have a chance
to, you know, pee because I don't wanna miss any information. Unfortunately, I don't wanna
degrade any other soldier but they went to school and graduate same time, you know. Right.
But then they learn the Japanese, standard Japanese.
Right. But then they learn any dialect. Where did you learn you? Where did you learn your Well,
I learned my, dialect when I was working for grocery store. As I mentioned before, I was
delivered to go to the countryside and farmer, husband and wife are talking a strange dialect.
Mhmm. But I didn't mention before, I was born in here I mean, at the rate in Hiroshima, so I'm
very fluent in Hiroshima dialect. Okay. But I didn't know any others. And then, so happened that
this happened to be a, Fukuoka dialect.
And, so I don't understand. So I asked them, what does you mean in saying Japanese? Right.
So they would tell me in the Japanese, so made a note and trying to remember it. Right.
And the next time I meet them and had a occasion to use their words Right. They tell you you
understand Japanese. I use that. They got kick out of it so they teach me some other things too.
So you know.
No. Nobody understand that other than What does that mean? There yeah. Well, so What does
that mean? That that mean that no no such a thing exist, you know.
And, so but to me, just like, you know, well, they come on natural because they're familial
because then they're not, they so I thought so, everything they say among themselves that the
recruits are, all served by the the their same area, the division. So, that also happened that this
was 18th division, Kerume, that the people speak the dialect I happen to know. So that came in
handy. So for that operation that your, your tacking of the wire Yes. You received a declaration.
Yes. I wouldn't recommend it, but the later on, that that general Merle well, first, the general
store tell general Merle, find out who got this very good information. So general Merrill asked,
you know, people around and there were 3 other and they were not the 3 too. But then I didn't
make a memo and, drop, you know, I put the initial there. And so happened that the my initial
information is stampeded me.
Anyway, they didn't go they went up but the nothing come down because and unfortunately, you
cannot say the period because of where the conversation was happening. Right. So just then try
to figure out other thing go and miss it. So they didn't know what they said. Mhmm.
To me, that's, I just gave you the, commanding officers, his own second to 10 report. He
mentioned that too and I, understood what they're talking about. So accurate and precise
interpretation. That's not much he praised me, though. Anyway, so the very important
information.
Also, later on, the divisional withdrawal order. So they're gonna go through that nose graft,
they're gonna hit that. They knew already nose graft because that the people were there
because there was a base there. Then they're gonna 2 division, Chinese are pushing not 2, not
division, 2 regiment up in those Chinese pushing. So they they will retreat order that go through
Wallopon.
That's where we're staying. Mhmm. So Swadhi and our the we, you know, were ordered to
withdraw, strategic withdraw to once again next build because they're gonna come through.
Right. So we we only had a one second battalion.
And the 1st battalion in the rear and the 1st 3rd battalion fighting the Beidou River. Mhmm. So,
second battalion couldn't stand it. We don't have so that rash and no ammunition running low.
Mhmm.
So withdrawal, then they got another message, that that they're gonna bypass. They know we're
there. They didn't know our strength. Oh. Because they're fighting there, then we're reserved
and they spotted us, you know, and the sniper shooting at me.
Fortunately, they're hitting the tree trunk and not me. So I have to go the other side. Mhmm. And
so That's okay. So you have to go to the other side.
Go to the other side. Then I didn't have a time to take a leak, you know, piss. So my pants wet
but, very important. So I, don't wanna miss anything. Just stay on.
And that was pretty hard but, I wet my pants. So the 2 big operations, that that you did in
Walmart? Yeah. Well, a lot of them is one is, finding the hidden ammunition down. Right.
And then they have been destroyed. Then, divisional troop movement. Right. Then on top of
that, divisional gave them a order because maybe 2 strong, enemy Right. That is American.
So they're gonna bypass river forward and exactly where. So so Roy, you said that, at, Bolivar,
your intelligence information through the intercept of their talcun line, resulted in, the bombing of
the, the Emodam, the enemy Emodam. And also the, the troop movement. And then there was
a third element. What was that?
Well, bypass order. What was what was that? Not going through because they, spotted the,
enemy over there. The the American was there. They didn't know the strength, so decided not
to go through the gold block.
But later on, that was fine. Now we already decided we're gonna move up because the region
come through there. So, we received order to make a strategic whistle to the next village called
Wasaga. So that that's the way they're gonna have a airdrop. So either way from If you did not
produce that information, would, the would the marauders have been at risk of being attacked
by the That part, we we didn't know whether, you know, actually they're gonna do it or not.
All they wanted to do, withdraw. And that's the only way tank and artillery come through the
road. I see. So they know. But then they they found that we're able to ford the river, not the
bridge.
Right. So no. And they're gonna go there, but we're gonna hit them anyway next time. So they
decided to stop at the income of the town. Now, for this operation at Wolebon Mhmm.
You received a declaration. Yes. What was what was the declaration for? And what was it for?
Well, there was a tapping wire, finding enemy ammunition down.
Also, the troop movement or the division coming through there. And just so you So what they
was, general still were asked to general Merrill, find out who got this very information. So even
though, general Murrow present me the legitimate later on, but the order issued by command of
general Stillwell. Mhmm. So he's the one made it.
Then, he wanna know who did it so there were some others, in Turkey too. But unfortunately
they're unable to comprehend the local dialect. The But fortunately I knew that dialect even
though I'm not a native there or, you know, never studied. But, why, I, learned by, you know, my
curiosity. So people say curiosity killed cat but curiosity curiosity saved our life.
And what you learn what you learn in California as the delivery person to Fukuoka Yeah.
Residence. Right. It's not that unfortunately, out of Fukuoka, you know, I I know the people in
Fukuoka. I don't know.
Now may not like me, but, anyway, that's I'm serving my country and so I I I did my, think of the
duties. I have to do it. So I, translate what they said and Right. Drop in. And, operation after
Wollongong was, Shadalaju.
Yes. Now what was your role in that battle? Well, I'm not involved in Shadalaju but that was first
battalion were ordered to go to make us, you know, block at the Shadalaju. Then the width down
below, the south over, Wallacham is Shadalaju is for incongru town. But we, you know, went
around the hill, in the jungle, so took time.
See, we went to, Shenzhen and, then Napura, Kavri, and and finally ended. And encountered
and came to the road open. Okay. Well, all of a sudden, they, open up the artillery so we were
hit. So at the Incumbentown Yeah.
What was which is the next 3rd area of battle. Yeah. What was your role in that? Well, at the
Incumbentown, we just went there then we didn't have a chance to fight just because they open
up with artillery. I see.
So, 3rd battalion and second battalion got in there. But then, since we cannot stand with artillery,
we didn't have anything. But other than motor and small, you know, firearm such as machine
gun. But we won't be able to, fight them because they, went to road. So they went to fast and
already established the base there.
And, we were make a load back but, they were there before we did. So 3rd battalion was behind
us and, then, you know, we got the order that, we cannot, you know, fight the the regiment
there. We only had the battalion. So the withdrawal order to go back to Ngapunga to,
Chongqing. And 3rd battalion went there and 2nd battalion were, ordered to hold at Ngapunga
Hill.
That was a trail there. So that's another archy and then, Ngapunga, the second battalion
stopped it. So first 3 days, that was the 28th March. 1940. 1944.
And, we are able to evacuate people. So but the most of the week and so forth were able to
evacuate to what the 3rd battalion is. And we're not talking about Yeah. We're not talking about
Napunga. This is Napunga.
We stopped Napunga. Okay. So the same combat, we went, then we did a fight Then we drove
through a few men, so we ordered to retreat and stop. After they come up, we're gonna, you
know, shoot them. So At at at in Humberton, so was there firefight between the Yes.
So we we did. You know, we arrived at June and something like that. Which battalion was that?
The 2nd battalion. 2nd battalion.
I see. And the 3rd battalion were in the reserve, but they were told to go and secure the,
Champsia Niang what happened to be, right in the right paddy field so we could land the l 5 to
evacuate sick and wounded. So what do you mean? Mhmm. What was your role in My role is in
my the second battalion.
So the second battalion were told to hold the a a place called hamlet called Ngapunga. The top
of the hill in the trail go there. And so we have stopped Japanese chasing, you know, they they
open up with artillery and following, you know, and we're retreating. Well, I don't say retreating.
So at that point, only tell was being a rifleman, in in in, in in Hong Kong.
You were you were a rifleman? Rifleman. Yeah. Well, I carried, you know, and one of them with
the shooting, but, I didn't see the enemy. It's just general direction where the, you know, flashes
are, you know, smoke come up.
But, since we've been ordered, then, you know, you have to carry, ammunition box and things
like that. It was hard going up there. And anyway, we made it. Well, I think we were young then,
but, in 2nd Bataille were told, stop it. Napunga and all that.
Then the first 3 days we are able to evacuate sick and wounded. But then, you know, we lost
the waterhole in the side of spring coming out and they surrounded us. Now we cannot even get
the water. Every time go there, they open up with the machine gun. So we don't have any water,
nothing to drink, and no air prop, you know.
So we requested the ration and things like that. But unfortunately some, you know, the breeze
that doesn't land on that, you know, top of hill. So the enemy and the the thing well, exclude my
language, Piss me off because they had our care ration in in the fine, you know, and they're the
Japanese. But, they may, we lost, you know, a few, supply and something like that. But we're
able to get, then since we don't have the water so they put them in a plastic bag and they drop
it, see, with the chute because if a drop will reverse so Right.
Put this so enemy enjoyed our water and ranching. Nakunga, was the 2nd battalion
surrounded? Yes. Green and the blue combat team were, you know, surrounded. And according
to the colonel, he his rebuttal, the one sergeant made, you know, we had a 600 man there, but
according to colonel commanding officer, he had a 900 man.
But we started, almost 1900 about 50 we had, but we lost a few men. So at least we have, more
than 800 men. But according to Ventura, you just mentioned 600, but actually I know more than
600 because our, you know but Daniel only do is about, 30 men. So for full strength because,
we didn't have a hand to hand combat, other than, Waller bombed little bit. Few people got
killed.
Then a few people got killed by artillery fire at the hill. But we lost about almost a 100, animal
because they have no way of digging. Oh, and artillery, direct hit or tree burst you know, and
they killed out and then, they start to rot, you know, and, this swollen up and burst and stinks
and So at my at my phone, Roy, then, what what prompted you to to go to to penetrate the
enemy, lines Yes. To eavesdrop on them? Well, I've heard that we've been surrounded for 10
days then, you know, every time they move they open up, then they also harass too.
Send the motor in, you know. And they're we've been surrounded so I don't know how many or,
you know, how far away or not because they're in the bushes. See, that every time well, first
was a pretty thick jungle but the being after, 3 birds and things like that. So quite a bit open
there. So they could observe us, from the bottom.
So every time make a movement, so can't do anything. But, I know they are around there
because, couldn't go. So waited until dark, you know, darkness because they don't have a street
light so, you know, total dark in the jungle. So that chance to I find they make a noise but I don't
know what to see. And, one place, the the the we had a casualty was McLogan's Hill Place.
And, the book says, we lost, had 40% casualty. But the 40% casualty is not the whole true for,
battalion. The full, you know, 40% of, just a small rifle platoon. Oh, I see. And, Lieutenant
McClurgen had, 50 men to start with the rifle platoon.
He lost the 23 men and he sick wounded and killed. So that's a 40% of a small rifle platoon. But
the book, you know, I think I misinterpreted 40% casualty. Now we didn't suffer 40% casualty.
But we've been surrounded, you know, so we have no way to go.
And every time through movement, then, they open up. So so they're making noise. So I wanna
find out what's gonna go on. So nighttime and, meantime, before you see, we went there in 28th
March, then, sergeant and sergeant was sick. So they they sent to, you know, evacuate it.
So only 2 and Babawanda and me, but he was sick in a. Oh. Of course, he had a statement
said, you know, he was so scared and kinda so many around and things like that. But also only
1, I am very weak, but, I was the one running around all over because, they make a note, you
know, come up and see. And the colonel tell me, you go out there and find out, see.
But I I don't wanna, you know, explore myself. Do But one time I was going there, then my
commanding, I was in the group combat team, a commanding officer named Richard Healy,
Major. And, he witnessed that when I go down and they open up, not for machine gun, but the
25 caliber and they had a bipod, see. So when they open up shoot, then the the the the bullet,
you know, go up and down, see. Oh.
Instead of sideways. Mhmm. So if they stay there, if they, you know, they swing them, then they
will be stitch it, you know, and they get killed. But, he said the bravery, so major he did, you
know, I'm gonna recommend you a silver star. And he told me that.
But, I I didn't care about what's going on, but I wanna survive. But anyway, then later on, I found
out that was a downgrade and get Broadstar. But, anyway, I went down there. So what I'm
gonna do is not gonna move around daytime because they spotted us. So decided to move at
nighttime.
See. And so you so you went there right to the enemy camp? Yes. But what I've been going
over there, not too close, but close enough to hear what's going on. And so so I've been coming
back and the book said, you know, well, I don't know exactly what time but anyway, all would
come up before dawn, see.
But the thing is, that particular night, the book says I came back before midnight, see. So that
one is what happened was, the enemy making a noise just just before dark, you know, but
making a noise and, since Ed McLoughlin lost so many men, so he, you know, get excited and
worried, so he called the colonel McGee, commanding officer, said something going on, so you
know what to do. Then the colonel said, consider Matsumoto. So I was ordered to go there, but I
couldn't figure out what they're talking about. Then according to McLaughlin, the sound they're
making is, just like theater let out, you know.
And too many people talking so exactly they don't know what to say. So I went there the same
thing. I couldn't make out what they're talking about and yelling and cussing and everything else,
you know. And so I think that they are there and I'm gonna go to be surrounded. So I couldn't go
down at nighttime and see.
And so so it happened that, 3 years ago, the soldier came up to me, and you remember me?
You see, I couldn't trace because that was, almost 60 years ago, you know, in the chain. Then
so he knows me. Well, I must be in the same unit. So I asked, second battalion?
He said, yeah. So I said, must be is it Napunga, you know? He say, yeah. Is it, 2nd battalion?
Yeah.
So I know. Well, that must be Napunga thing. So So you're, so you went to the enemy, camp?
Yes. Okay.
And I had I mean and and you listened you listened there? Yes. And what did you hear? Well,
the first, I'm talking about, you know, poor my wife, you know, suffering because, no, you know,
I've been to help the farming and things like that. And just just talk just like a we talker.
You know, folks who have nothing to do, so they're waiting. So say, what you do when you get
out here to unerrate the chicken or something like that? The same thing they're talking about. All
of a sudden, you know, they said that tomorrow morning is, you know, assault, you know. They
had something cooking, see.
Mhmm. They're not telling me no way, you know, they're instructing. Then, I know the terrain
there with all being there 10 days already. Then I just daytime, they watch and see how the
terrain is. But then I always hit the McLuhan places, that's, lowest place where the trail was was,
so they're gonna come up there.
And the other side of the cliff, you know, they don't come up in the cliff because make a noise,
you know, that they cannot rush out. So that's logical that he's that's why he's been hit. He lost
the 40 percent of so, listening in a way he said, making this thing the way they did before and
repeating. So I know that's why it will come up. And crafterly didn't know the space but
McLennan believes, but I mean, it's a I I know that's why it will come up.
So they're gonna listen in and then in the morning, you know, they're gonna you see, don't
attack. Of course, it's, you know, Japanese, but I have to understand. So what what dialect was
that in? There was a, Fukuoka and so happened that, the enemy were 18 division Mhmm. And
the conflict were only, you know, same area.
So they speak instead of, standard Japanese. Of course, they went to school so they
understand. But among themselves, maybe, local, you know, dialect would be easier for them.
Of course, official order, they use a standard Japanese. Right.
But, so So what did you do with this information? This information I, I came back early. Well,
according to Lieutenant Abdullah, 20 or 30 minutes but to me it look like I'm more than an hour
but I mean it's a sea because a long wait. But anyway, I came back and I told him, you know,
they're gonna attack your place, you know. So then he called the colonel in the in the radio and
said, Matsumoto said, you know, what if so and so.
So he said, evacuate that quietly in a foxhole the line. But the Japanese already did, you know,
that tension in the way we were. So they know exactly where we're gonna attack. So we're
gonna fool them. So colonel told them, you know, we throw about 50 yards or so, you know, And
the dig, another focus quietly and the booby trapped the empty one.
Okay. And that came in handy later, you know. Because when they made a charge, the sort of
they hit the wrong bridge. They couldn't find anybody. So met before up, you know.
So then maybe the next morning then did the Yeah. Next early before, you know. That's still
dark, you know. And the way they thought we are sleeping but we weren't. We're ready.
Meantime, reinforce, you know, we he had lost the he only had about 25 people but we
reinforced it, make about 50. And we set up the all the automatic weapon, yes, such as BAR
and, Thompson machine gun, also machine gun, and also rifle, you know. It's a garland, you
know, m 1, and the carbine, and everything. But the door open up, you know. We are ordered.
Let them come up, you know. Then, within the 15 yard commence firing, see. And all of a
sudden, break loose. And so I was shooting too then I could see that mother for us, you know.
Mhmm.
So aim at that and and shoot them. But there, unfortunately for them, they had Arisaka, model
38, you know, Sampatji, rifle. It's only 25 caliber. How it was 30? And the bolt actions are each
time you squeeze, only 5 round grip, And the squeeze, you have to cock it.
Take time. Well, that was just a squeeze. It's a semi automatic, you know. So every time put
trigger goes or you could make a automatic or, you know, a rifle. Mhmm.
And but the trigger so we got a more fire bar and we had a more, you know, because the
concert is in one place and opened up all of a sudden. So the the first group were more down
and second group coming up then, you know, they saw what happened so they hesitated, see.
Then, some guy, I don't know, maybe the son yet said, get the hell out of here, you know.
Mhmm. Or in Japanese, you know.
So I mean, that means a retreat, see. True. So I can't count them on the order and I know what
kind of order to gain. So Where were you where were you pursuing? Well, I was in a a foxhole.
Right there. So happened that, I mentioned the name this guy. I asked me. Happened to be his
name was, Ed Coroner. Mhmm.
And he told me, oh, how would you talk to somebody? Now I remember. That's why I told Ed, if I
make he hears an noise, don't open because it's me coming back. Yeah. Don't shoot me.
So I was in that place of being shot by all people or the enemy, you know. So very risky. So you
know what the hardest thing, you know, right there? Well, you cannot sneeze or cough. That
was the hardest thing.
Well, I have to, you know, put the finger in my mouth, you know. And this name, what they
talking about. And they didn't know I'm only, few feet away from there. So I could hear clearly
what they were talking about. Then officer come around and tell them, you know, ordering, you
know, getting prepared for tomorrow morning, you know, doing a tax.
Right. So we know exactly what they're gonna do in the So when the second wave came up 2nd
wave came up. That is a Of course, they saw the first group of my thoughts. So they're talking
about, you know, retreating. See?
Right. They didn't give a order yet. Yeah. But they're talking about so again, you know, a charge
order, I tell. Yeah.
They're not a property owner. See? Mhmm. You know? The book said just a.
They don't do that. Right. You gotta you gotta just like a tractor in the in the field, you have to
give them a proper order. On your mark, you got to say that. Right?
So you just don't say, yeah, for me to turn around rear, march, you know. Yeah. And you you
don't say just, you know. But means advance, you know. So I use that also tokkanon too, you
know.
That's another word that Say, you know, and, well, all can seem to let them cope and then they
it's it's the Japanese, not, you know, American Japanese. The Japanese, you know, you sound
like a real Japanese because, I have to, you know, accustomed to the Japanese. And some
people say you speak more better Japanese than Japanese themselves, you know. Because I I
went to high school there. So sure.
No no problem for me. So they charge. So I make a charge. So they charge up, see. Meantime,
we opened up, you know.
Then we hold until car. So they excited then jumping the fox on. Then we're Oh, then we have to
off. And then, after daybreak, we made a body count. And 54 then, we didn't find any wounded.
So they must have dragged away or maybe dead one too. But we call 54 of them and the 2 of
them are officers, see. Oh. Lieutenant. Mhmm.
And I have to know one of the name but, anyway, good part was that nobody got hurt on the
outside. I know. Not able to scratch. And 4 dead once in a month must be quite few. And we
estimate about twice as much casualty wounded, you know, that.
Let me drag out. So Jose, their, their, their strength was far larger than yours. Right. And
surrounded because, we don't know maybe company but, they come up with a probably 2, 3
platoon, you know. And I don't know how many might have but maybe stopped because they
retreated after see, they have so many casualty.
But, I gave my, you know, the the second group order to charge. So 1st group, you know, they
did their own, see, and came and opened up. So now they're gonna retreat with the second
group. Then instead of retreating, they charge up because order to charge, you know, in terms
of hickety. And so happened that, just the other day, my, daughter dug up with own field manual
which I used in high school and said exactly I know the page.
Mhmm. Where what order to give to make them charge. I see. So I may donate this to either
museum or, you know, association. But, I or, you know, association.
But, I I have a feeling that that's my life saver. You know. You know proper order and they follow
my No. By by your action, both both in terms of acquiring the information Mhmm. Thus causing
your commander to redeploy his troops.
And you're standing up and telling the Japanese in their own language to advance Yeah.
Charge. You to charge, you probably you no doubt saved the lives of 8, 900 men. Right. Well, I I
wouldn't say save, but I didn't save.
I didn't save it. But, this being a teamwork, so we survive by teamwork. Right. Go ahead. Now
So I've built a cargo wheel and, just so happened that I'm the winning team member of the
winning team.
Right. Put it that way. And what I didn't save it myself. And what, what award did you was given
to you for this particular operation? Nothing.
Well, now Okay. Lieutenant Colonel George a McGee Yeah. Who was a commanding officer of
the 2nd battalion. Right? Said in May 1990, that you would be awarded the Legion of Merit and
Bronze Star for your heroism at Nipungga and throughout the campaign.
I'm using his quotes. And so you would say you received This is erroneous because, I received
the regent of merit from, general Merrill and the order state that, the action that took place from
24th February to 11th March. 19 And with the 1944. And we don't come to, Napunga until March
28th. So I already awarded the of merit for Mhmm.
At the, action at the Wall of Bonhomme. So I never received, any medal or citation. But
however, 49 years later, I was inducted to Ranger Hall of Fame in lieu of the medal that's what
I've been notified. And the one of the medals This is the region, I mean, the Ranger Board of
Fame of prestigious United States Army. This was in 9 1993, July 19th.
And in 1997, I was awarded the, Military Intels Court of Fame at Fort Huachuca for, I have done
the Wallabum in Ngapunga. I see. So I never received the medal for Ngapunga. Now so by this
point, you have participated in 4 major campaigns, of course. And of course there were other 32
other incidents.
Yes. But then the next big battle, was in Michena. Michena. Yes. Okay.
Now by the time of Michena, the, Merlot Marauder's ranks have, of course, greatly depleted
because of war casualties Yeah. And also because of, the the elements, you know, like, Well,
more or less, a lot of cavity was a sickness. Sickness. And not too much of, a bottle cavity. And,
the the cavity were natural elements such as, sickness and, exhaustion Malaria.
Nutrition. Yes. Malaria, typhus, and Mhmm. And And so what was your role in the battle of
Midinah? Battle of Midinah, we were, you know, told to have what happened was that instead of
going through the road, we went around, Kumho range and then started.
So we had a lot of, you know, roles, such as, mules slipping off the cliff and losing the
equipment and supply. And finally, we made it and they didn't expect that we're gonna come
through there. And, Mitchell air strip, I got a Japanese, troop stationed there. But we outnumber,
so capture the airstrip. Then we secure the airstrip, so now, we could, land our plane, cargo
plane in reinforcement.
Marauders, you're talking about the Chinese nationalist troops. Yeah. Mhmm. And they come
down then, secure around there so that the Japanese won't come. Of course, they had a plane
and the strafe and and, come around but the security.
Then we get a more new troop from state side and before the without training such as the corps
master engineer and military police, they didn't have active combat experience but, they've been
thrown in there And then tried to attack and took about 3 months to capture the city of Mechna.
But we secured the airport, airstrip, poor weather. That's why we're able to land the plane then,
you know, flew to China without going through the hump in the land and mountains. So the,
Michener, of course, was a very strategic. Yes.
Strategic. So happened that, that would happen to be railroad terminals So that their truck, you
know, I mean train would bring the troop and supply there. To the Burma Road. To Burma to
they're not from, Burma Road but, then that was our objective too. So we accomplished mission
securing and then, we assume, you know, people depreciated.
We had about a couple 100 men, and so finally they disbanded the Marauder. From 3000 to a
couple 100? Yeah. Couple Of course, you know, a lot of them are in the hospitals right then, but,
yeah, actually combat, you know. But before secure that, General Bordner, all the people who is
able to, you know, walk and to get out of hospital, send him into, you know, Minshana airstrip
over the area.
So, but in the meantime we got the 1st troop too. But I happen to be the one of the 17 last 17
men to be evacuated. Which means which means that the in the end, you are still standing.
And, and to be among the 17 Last 17 men to be evacuated. A as the original morale.
Right. I see. Uh-huh. They're not signed to 4 70 5th infantry. And all of them are the remaining
people assigned to.
And I know of the second battalion but, my two zero files, it's a first battalion and 4 70 5th. Was
there a form of deactivation? No. We didn't have any, deactivation salami or not. Just black 3,
you know, put them in the plane and took off original Marauders.
Then the replacement to stay there and also new troop to surround in the city of Midginai and
took long time to I remember reading I remember reading somewhere that the war department
made an estimate of how many would survive, the, the campaign. And they said 85%. Expect
85% casualties. That was about right. Yeah.
They end up with just about right. Of course, they're not, 80% of battle casualty, but then a
sickness and That's right. Yeah. That was holy for the Yeah. And we lost many men, from
sickness.
That was the sad part of it. And of the 5 battles, Roy, what was your most memorable
experience? Well, it will be in Apunga, but I, I didn't participate in all 5 battle. I, participated 4 of.
The shuttle zoo was the 1st battalion load block.
Right. And we went in Gangotan, so, I missed the shuttle zoo. So I don't know anything about
shuttle zoo. Right. But I have this before, you know, battle and, they probably I don't know
whether either, Wallabom or Napunga.
But at the time, Wallabom was all fresh troop and we didn't lose many. But, we're able to survive
at the napunga, so maybe the napunga one. Because, when they made a hold out charge, we
didn't lose any. Not a single man. So it's a great accomplishment and, they tried to give me
credit but, I know it's a teamwork and I know I cannot do it myself.
Everybody pitch in. So I'm proud of the, member of the winning team. I'm I'm just, proud of this
wheel and just wanted to pee on there, but, able to contribute. So that's my satisfaction. You you
you are a very modest person, and, and, you really should be, should be congratulated, you
know, for Thank you very much.
But since I was so mad when they intern me, I wanna get out. But since I able to serve the
country, I'm gonna show the people that we are not the 2nd class citizen. Then they cross by me
at the 4 c, not a 4 f. I've done that before f but that they cross by 4 c. That stand for enemy alien.
I am not an enemy or I'm not alien. I'm a native born American citizen. So I show where, you
know, 1st car sitting there was show. That's why, I, made my decision to, you know how how,
there are 14 of you Yeah. You know, Japanese Americans, in the Merrill's Marauder's.
How how were you treated by the the others? The Caucasian personnel? Well, we mean first,
you know, this is something that, you know, they thought some of people they thought that we're
Japanese prisoner captured then they know, they put uniform in and use them translator or
interpreter, see. And they thought we were prisoner, but later on on the ship, a troop ship, we
had, you know, we'd be introduced in the poem, you know, we're an American and, you know,
Japanese descent and so forth. Then some people are very friendly and some still hate the job
and so forth.
But, as far as my unit goes, you know, everybody get to know and, when I'm first wishing washi.
But after Napunga, they saw, you know, they, you know, we did something outstanding things.
So so they appreciate. So now they go, reunion. Everybody come to me and thank me for
saving, but I didn't save, you know.
We survived due to teamwork. Right. I'm just a part of, you know, supply get information. So
when I was inducted, hall of fame, I thought, you know, well, pretty bad because, lieutenant
McLogan should be inducted before me. The reason was that, his alertness started all because
if he didn't call colonel, I won't be sent there and I don't know, and then we they be wiped out
and maybe all around there and we'd be all wiped out.
In that case, I know Mitch so our mission will fail you, see. But so I think of it, he's the one who
started all. Of course I have to risk my life but, I wanna find out what's gonna go on because he
been heading so many time and lost 40% of his man. So I know he's scared too. He told me that
too.
So he is alert, he's making noise so something gonna go on. So the colonel and in turn, oh, it
was risky to me going down there, you know, during the day I'd hour and they shoot at me and
Yeah. But fortunately, I'm a small guy and made a small target maybe or somebody upstairs,
you know, help me me so that I don't get killed. But anyway, we accomplished that. So, for we
just had, really at the Washington DC here in, a couple days ago.
And a lot of people come to me and thank me but, no. See, I thank them, you know, they, help
me pitch in and we won the war. I love it. So, but it kept me busy. The fact the fact that,
Lieutenant Mclogan, acted on your information Mhmm.
Demonstrated, his, his respect Yeah. For, for the the quality of your reporting. And, of course, by
that point Yeah. I think your reputation of reporting the and your integrity has already been
established with a higher command. And so they listen to you and that was That's why, you
know, they, find out what happened in the water bomb.
So the thing I've been telling you is the truth. Right. Because what's so happened that, exactly
what happened and what I, reported. And at this time, and I'm sure so that's what I said, you
know. If it's wrong where they change their mind, then I have in the spotlight.
Now after after, you were you and the 17 were evacuated, what was your you were hospitalized,
weren't you? Well, not right away, but the what happened was, about, 28th March, the shell
burst, you know, 1st day of shift. Then, shrapnel hit my wrist, and it made that scratch and blood
come out. So I went to aid station and the doctor Kaladin just died this year, but he was a
papalian surgeon and he passed out. But he was working the people whose gut sticking out.
See? So either forgot to, send a report or he might have made it and he was so busy, you know.
So I never got to Washington so I never received a Purple Heart. But, when I was assigned to
4/75 infection set up because wound because didn't take care for, you know, months or so. And
all we didn't heal it.
Then, probably I I got some pop in the mid to now or some so. So let's just slow them up. See,
I'm dead. So then they send me to 14 setback in 1st coastal. Then they operated, took a pass
out.
And, that's the time, no coward, you know, a famous prelate, you know, from British, you know,
came to visit me and interview me. And there's a picture, you know, I had a band aid right there
and big one almost lost arm, you know. Good thing it came. Otherwise, they said they're gonna
lose arm. But, well, since, you know, record says, you know, he's not wounded, so you cannot,
you know, wear a medal because I don't want some Navy, you know, officer wear, you know,
force of ribbon, right, in the Spanish embarrassment.
So even though I should entitle, but, I look right to wear so I don't wear it. Nearly losing your
arm. Nearly losing arm. But it's okay. I, came with 1 piece and it's still here, you know, after 60
years.
So and just forget about it. But meantime, sending it 3 times different occasion for, you know,
issuance, but never hear anything. But that's okay. I'm here and being, you know, inducted a
auto fame, ranger mode of fame, and also I was inducted into Ranger regiment. And also just
recently I was inducted into special forces as a honorary member.
And, I've been receiving all kind of honor and greatly honor and I don't know what to say, but,
thank God, you know, I I'm one piece and, unfortunately, we lost 10 men out of 14 team, and I
lost my comrade, you know, team leader and so forth. But fortunately, you know, Grant
Hirabayashi and Matsumoto and Mainland still kicking around and being recognized and Grant
being inducted Hall of Fame and so is me and Hank Bocher being inducted Hall of Fame. And I
wanted, you know, other people recognized. And fortunately, they, you know, listened to me, and
and Grant was inducted not only a Hall of Fame, but the distinguished member of the Rangers.
And and I'm satisfied without the medal because I got big medallion saying that, he was a
Ranger, a Hall of Fame member, and really honored.
And the cap model. And the cap you're wearing is a Green Bay Aladdin. Oh, Green Bay
Aladdin. Just, General Parker or Fort Fort Bragg, ordered me into Green Bay and they issued
me Green Bay Art and Weathering and very proud to be member. And the insignia here, I saw
the people had a gold background so I asked them why mine is different?
He said those green golden one was a school graduate, but this one, it shows that the UHN
OSS. That's a city service. I'm very proud to be a member of the detachment to to OSS in
printing the China border in China. Right. Now And now they recognize me as a member of the
special forces.
So that's great. That's about it. Now before before we, you know, we're going to come to that,
but so after how long were you hospitalized? Well, not too long after that, where I've told him
that the heel, sergeant, Yamaguchi, he had a stomach ulcer then, he was be sent back to
stateside and happened to be 20th general hospital. I was supposed to be sent back to next
door, and, I, made it meantime, I just had show me they're looking for me because I was still in
Burma and the rest of the boys all day back here and went to New Delhi, India except
Yamaguchi and Matsumoto Yamaguchi in the hospital of 20th general.
I'm the 14th general hospital, back at your hospital. So they not he had begged me to take him
to, you know, join the boys in New Delhi. So I talked to adjutant there, you know, is that
possible? But he outranked me. I was a staff sergeant and he was a tech sergeant.
But the other way around, a little brilliant guy escort him. I agree, you know. So so so then they
give me permission. In case something happened, I turned him in the hospital, but finally made
it to New Delhi. So that's why I joined.
We assigned and joined Sergeant, Grantir Bayashi. So you the so and, so after your hospital,
you were in New Delhi? New Delhi, instead of going back to 4/75. And at New Delhi, what did
you do? Well, we were at first, they're gonna do the translation but so many people were there.
We were, sergeant, and me, Roy Matsumoto, were gonna be assigned to Royal Air Force
Headquarters. So I thought, no more in a bullet flying and this job. But unfortunately, you know,
we, we're working the street of New Delhi and neglect to salute the general officer coming
British officer. Because we've been told in the combat, never say sir or call the rank or salute.
Because if you do in a, you know, if the enemy, Sunakar had one bullet left, they don't shoot the
guy who's saluted.
See, the one that returned the saluted will be shot. So they don't want to identify the officers. So
that's brought it into our heart, mind, everything else. So we know there was a general coming,
but just forgot to salute. Then the general said, soldier, yes, sir.
We'll salute. Then he said, but too late. You disrespect to, you know, general officer. Give us
your name, see. So we gave name, then he said we're gonna court martial you.
So we reported, this incident to our officer in charge. Then they took action. We didn't have to
stand coal marsh and we we didn't ship to China. So And you were the pump. That's how you
went to China.
That's why you got to China. So you and what what was your assignment in China? Well, first,
lieutenant, sergeant Yoshimura has been commissioned, so he's lieutenant. And, meantime, I'm
still sergeant and, we ordered to go up to June King. So we went up there, then the mission was
to interrogate the prisoner.
And there was a prison camp, Japanese prison camp there, and the prisoner, Japanese soldier
kept Praise by Oscar Chungking. And, the name of the camp was Peace Village. And the man
named Kani Watabeu was a communist. He was indoctrinating these prisoner for, indoctrination
of communist. So we asked the one prisoner, how long you be here?
8 years. So no, internal values. So we complained to the officer then they got mad. So in that
case we're gonna send you phone line. So just you wanna we just went there, Namun Ching.
And when I had a one chance to go in hot spring, Namun Ching means South Sun hot springs
in the translation. But anyway, they turn around and we've been sent to Kunming, southern
combat command. So right back then Air Shimura G2 and me, they assigned me the g 2 with
the combat command, but I didn't have any job to do. And so they let me do the, overlay
comparing the area map and take a picture. In the previous one, they made a change or, you
know, new building I had or a plane landed or whatever.
Then I make overlay and I was saying it. Meantime, my general partner find out that the Han
was there. So they sent me to Mengxi and, they tried to issue me a 38 caliber, you know, Smith
and Wesson. See? They only think I had a 45, you know, caliber pistol.
And so I said, I don't need that but this is the issue. I have to take it. So I had a 2 side arm, 38
caliber and the 45. And it said that take this. Then they give me that can and I didn't know what
it was.
Then open the lid and I'm black. What's this? It's an opulency. So and so I didn't take it. But
instead of that, give me a sack of occupation money.
So in case I have a captive like Chinese, you know, they think of Japanese. So then, show them
identification and send to American troop or Chinese national troop so that I'd be safe. So that
bribe money. Right. Then, they they didn't say it was OSS.
I didn't know. Later on, I found out that I was in OSS 202. Then, from there, they sent me to
Pakshe and then from there to near village about 20 miles away from Taiping in at, in the
Yundang, I mean, in the Kwansea province. And where and where were you, Roy, when the war
ended? That's why I just about that time, but I've been there a few months anyway because And
after the war ended, you, you met your brother in China?
Yes. And your brother was fighting for the Japanese? Yes. Explain. Okay.
What happened was that We have very short time. Okay. After war ended and instead of going
to special forces, I was assigned to MP and, then I interrogated the war crimes, criminals or
suspect or mature witness. Then they gave me roster since I read the Japanese character. So
they gave me the unit roster and also passenger risk to be repatriated, but we hold them until
they've been clear.
And going through the name and I found my cousin's name. So I went to see him, but since, he,
live in the United States and then with Japan, but, he was trapped in Japan when in the army,
Kwangutan Army got hold of him. So, I went to see him and he recognized me right away even
though he was cousin, but they're closer than my brother because he was living with me when
he attended UCLA. And so the first thing I went to, he reckoned on me, he told me, your brother
is here also. So what he did?
So I went to see him. Then he told me that another brother in the army drafted too and he
happened to be sent to Guadalcanal and arterial arrangement fixed division. They made the oral
bandai charge, the whole pairs except the 2. And one my brother had happened to have a
vitamin d deficiency, belly belly. So he had to make a charge.
The other guy was, had a bellyache and couldn't move. So, commanding officer told him, call for
Matsumoto, you take care of this man and rest. So he survived and, next morning, the
submarine came up and they they they don't have more did that because we either straight
forward, you know, drop the bomb on their ship. So they come at night time with the submarine
and, then they float to lava raft. They came to beach when he found 2 people, so took him in a,
submarine, took Manila, and the guy in the hospital ship, and he went back to Japan.
So it stateside the duty so he didn't go to combat area anymore. He survived. So you had a
brother? You had 2 brothers. You had 2 brothers.
And a cousin. Yeah. In, in the Japanese army. Japanese army. Matter of fact, the 3, the the
other one was in the navy but he was the technician so didn't go to combat area.
And, then the other brother happened to work for the headquarters so I didn't go to combat. So
he survived and So how many how many relatives did how many brothers did you have? I had a
straight brother in the Japanese, you know, armed forces and, one captain. And and and then
you also had a younger brother who was in the US service. Yes.
And also I had my brother. He was arrested before war and, he was discharged, stay in and
went to OCS and, he retired as a full colonel. His name, Tom Matsumoto. And, unfortunately, he
passed away some years ago. But, so, 2 brothers in the United States Army and 3 brother in
Japanese, you know, armed forces.
And you had your sister and And my sister, the 2 sisters, they worked for army quartermaster.
They all survived fortunately. And, my folks, you know, at Hiroshima. But, I didn't know until me
and my cousin. I thought they know, they were doing because I know they're living 2 blocks
away from epicenter.
Oh. Oh, my big bomb truck. And that's So fortunately, he told me they moved a few months
before to the countryside to take care of my grandfather being, you know, my grandmother and
grandfather taken care. So they died and when, you know, war ended but, anyway, they
survived the atomic bomb. So Ourosem survived.
So when did you get together with them? Well, not right away but the act. I met my brother
there, Wano. And then when I stayed, 1945 or 46 too because I'm involved in work work and
trial. Then after that, I had a previous escorting the prisoner to, Tsugamu Prison in Japan from
Shanghai, Kowloon Airport to Haneda, then they, you know, brought 24 prisoner to Tsugamu.
Then they give me 20 days TDY. And, so meantime, you know, I went to see my folks. Roy, we
have 30 seconds left. Okay. Before we end this discussion, is there anything that you feel we
you should say that we have not asked?
No. Nothing. But except that, grace of God, you know, I, survived and everybody treat me nice.
And so and, they'd be I'd be honored being a this and that and, which I don't think I deserve. But
anyway, great thing.
And also, God gave me the good health and so very appreciative and I try to be nice to
everybody. This, this concludes the oral history interview on the life of master sergeant Roy
Matsumoto. The Japanese American Veterans Association thanks you, Roy, for the time you
spent to prepare for this interview. You have made a major, major contribution that will benefit
scholars, historians, researchers, and filmmakers. Many thanks.
Well, thank you very much.