[Music]
welcome to the second series of by
design
my name is bruce baucher and i'm
director of sir johnson's museum
son's idea for his museum was to be an
academy of the arts
where art architecture and design could
be discussed
explored and celebrated it's with this
in mind that we have collaborated with
luke irwin the distinguished
rug designer who feels passionately
about the role of design
and whose support has been fundamental
to this
series chaired by alice roththorne
design writer and critic
and will gompertz artistic director at
the barbican
these talks explore the impact of design
on several
internationally renowned designers and
you can find
podcasts of the first series on our
website
sone.org for this second series we
invited dan pearson
ilsa crawford erdem moraleo lou amanda
levite
and philip de barlow to present an
object that has inspired them
and through that object to reflect on
their own design practice
we originally launched the second series
in february 2020 with alice roththorne
talking to the designer dan pearson at
the zone and we're pleased to present
the remaining talks through a series of
individual events
filmed at the museum thanks to our
collaboration with luke irwin
we are not charging for these talks but
be wonderful if you would consider
making a contribution
which would enable us to continue our
wider learning programs
and you can do so on zone.org
i hope you enjoyed the talk ilsa
crawford is one of our most influential
designers
who has championed a humanistic approach
to design
to foster our well-being individually
and collectively
ilsa pioneered sustainable and nurturing
design
first as founding editor of el
decoration uk magazine
and then by beginning the man on
wellbeing program at design academy
eindhoven in the netherlands
where she taught for 20 years in 2003
she opened studio elsa a
multi-disciplinary design practice in
london
where she and her team have pursued a
humanistic approach to interior design
and develop sustainable products for
ikea and other brands
so ilsa welcome and in the grand
tradition
of by design talks the stone museum has
invited you to choose
one object that you find particularly
inspiring so what is it and why did you
choose it
um maybe inspiring is um
pushing it but it's certainly
a metaphor i think for our profession
so i have chosen a tape measure so long
as it works it doesn't really matter
what type it is and i think i probably
lost more tape measures than
i can count but what i love about the
tape measure is it is the reality
of what we all as designers do
and i've got a fantastic quote from
louis khan here which is you know
he talks about how design the making of
things is a measurable
act and you know underneath it all that
is true
but underneath that is the
truth that a a great or even a good
building
must begin with the unmeasurable must go
through the measurable
in the process of design but must again
in the end be unmeasurable so i think
the tape measure in some way embodies
that sort of
contradiction in design that it is a
process that is granular
and rational and needs to be
communicated but in the end
what we are making
is values that become visible through
the process of design
so how did you discover design and why
did you decide
to devote your working life to it
um i think design discovered
me to be honest i don't think i was
really aware of design
as a profession
i grew up as
the sort of product i would say
of a very measurable man an economist
and a totally unmeasurable woman
who studied art at chelsea school of art
and thought nothing of throwing five
kids
um behind her and hitchhiking to the
other end of the country to see a
michael powell movie if she thought we
should see it
so as you can imagine there were plenty
of rows
but i came to understand both points of
view
and in some ways i think design is the
marriage
of that and you have had an eclectic
background um a journalist founding
editor
of el deco and also a long commitment to
teaching
as well as your own design practice so
what have you learned from those other
strands in your career
i think that we are all the sum of our
experiences
and in many ways journalism
and you know you were one still are one
in a way but in different media
um is a fantastic
profession i mean it's really an
opportunity
i think to interrogate um
to understand to
gain insights to
then communicate that to a bigger
audience so it's a
extraordinary training i think
in understanding the world
and making sense of it and i think that
design
is the next step from that actually it's
a natural step
of making those values visible and in
some ways
whether it's small or large by doing
that
encouraging others to do the same being
a catalyst if you like for change
so did you find your journalistic
experience and also your experience as
an editor and you were a hugely
successful
editor at el deco have they been
practically useful
in your work and design and also in your
teaching i would say
100 yes
because i think those skills that i
just mentioned of interrogation
and insight and imagination
and communication are useful across the
board and i think
they help you understand subject matters
so
in teaching for example unpacking
subject matters
and going on that journey with the
students looking at them from all angles
looking at them from the data
perspective
looking at them from the human
perspective
from the social perspective etc i think
it's a fantastic training to have
for teaching and the same for design i
mean with every project we start with
that process
of research and understanding
before remotely starting
on a design response to that that
process of looking at
the systems behind things that looking
at the context that looking at the cause
and effect
of what we might do
is you know transformational it really
changes your perspective
and similarly how did your teaching feed
into your understanding of design
and your practice
teaching is a
remarkable profession in that
you are by definition
acting as a coach to the next generation
and i think you know you're not
teaching them anything per se
in my opinion but i think you are
[Music]
clarifying their processes
giving them a sounding board really
to develop their arguments
and pointing them in good directions to
find
information data inspiration and so on
so i mean it's a
amazing way
to in a shared
um safe place i would say
explore ideas that will impact the
future that will be the future
together and why did you decide to set
up your own design practice
um i didn't really decide to set up my
own design practice
i am very much a worker i roll my
sleeves up i get on with stuff
and i had set up as a freelancer
and was working and one day in my
accountant said that i had to register
for vat
so i should probably call myself
something and it
kind of rolled from there it rolled from
the practice of work
and you know we became official in 2003
but really it has been a consequence of
doing the work rather than an
intentional i'm going to set up a design
studio
so what were the milestones of studio
ilsa
we got bigger very slowly i would say
the first
seven years or so we were you know
working from a small apartment
there were five or six of us
um and we worked on
the early soho house project which is
probably something we're
quite well known for defining the dna of
that brand in the very early days with
badminton soho house electric
etc bigger projects started to
come our way and more diverse
projects so that
led to us growing basically quite
organically
when you look back i suppose
it's always much easier to look back
at him i think was a defining project
i think working with esop was a defining
project the ikea collection
as you earlier mentioned was a defining
project but we did many many other
projects
alongside that you know maybe a slightly
less well-known and you learn through
doing
so in a way every one of them for us at
least was defining
very tactful and how many people are you
now and can you give us an idea of
the range of projects you're currently
working on in terms of their scale
the studio is currently around 15 people
we have three teams and each team
has a combination of architects
interior designers that's ffa as they're
known
we also have product design and
journalists working in the studio
currently we have been working on a
number of
design strategies which i find
really important because by
addressing the beginnings of projects
it's possible to embed
humanistic values environmental values
well-being values at the very beginning
and that means that it's embedded in the
budget it's in bled embedded in the
planning submission
it's embedded in the operational
strategy that they have so that means
there's far more chance of it surviving
what is
a very challenging process often over
many years
and what does studio ilsa stand for
as you said at the beginning alice um we
are
um basically obsessed by
the idea of embedding humanistic values
into our projects whether they are
environments
products or even experiences
and for us that means that
we want to have a positive impact on
mental and
environmental outcomes it means we
investigate the systems behind things it
means we
look into the context social cultural
economic etc it means we anticipate
cause and effect of any interventions we
might make
so it really is an approach
that is looking at design as a way of
squaring the circle if you like
trying to join things together that
previously been looked at in silos
and currently this approach thankfully
is
increasingly fashionable these are core
concerns for
progressive private sector clients
and for many young designers but you
were championing
well-being and this nurturing ethically
and environmentally responsible
approach designed long before it became
popular
is is it an easier sell now to to
clients
we are known for that and it is true
increasingly the people who approach the
studio come to us
for that that doesn't mean though that
it's always the case in the wider world
and
i think finding
the right clients and
doing that process together with those
clients is still key
i think that there are a lot of people
who you know as they
say want to go to heaven but don't want
to die as one client
said to us recently because we were
pushing for
obviously more sustainable sourcing but
that cost 10
more so yeah
you know there is that reality and i
think there's
a long way to go but i think that it's
accelerating
definitely so could we now look in
detail at a couple of your projects
you've chosen four of them to talk about
so we can consider the thinking behind
them and also
how the finnish project reflects the
values that are so important to you
in the late 60s robbie kennedy famously
said that talking about gdp
that the problem with gdp was that it
measured everything
except that which makes life worthwhile
and our aim with
all our projects is to try to bring
those two
together as i've as i've said
and i think
the projects particularly the ones i'm
going to talk about
are always trying to bring together
those soft values with
something that works because obviously
you know a project has to work one can't
you have to
you know it might be commercially it
might be pragmatically
those measurable values going back to
the tape measure you know
it has to work but it is possible
i strongly feel to bring those together
and i think it's how to do that
with design that i think is what is so
interesting and challenging i mean it is
has certainly been true in recent years
even more so than in the 60s that you
know we
idolize if you like hard and measurable
financial value
and very often
talking about the more humanistic values
is seen as being you know
kind of fluffy it's something that
we have to justify nowhere more so oddly
i think than in you know the care sector
and i think that's partly because it's
often on very tight budgets
and the so-called functional aspect
of what needs to be done is so very very
apparent caring professionally
and care that respects
a human's dignity that
values individuals i think
are sometimes very different um
you know and i think that idea of
embedding
care at every level of a design
makes it much easier for people using it
for people working it
to feel a part of an idea that i think
can bring those sometimes contradictory
values together
so you know it's a truism that good
design
can help people feel good and valued
but a project that we did recently um
for referetory affiliates i think is a
really good example
of how that can work really really well
referetoria felix was previously known
as st cuthbert's
which was a soup kitchen a really good
one
and run by people who did really care
but
the environment that they were working
in was
you know fairly puritanical it was an
old church hall nothing wrong with it
but
pretty functional in the way that we
understand that word and
normally they teamed up with food for
soul which is an ngo
which in turn teamed up with project
felix
which is an ngo that works with food
waste
and pulled in studio ilsa
to elevate the offer basically the brief
was
brilliant which was you know to bring
dignity to the table
we approached it by really thinking
about the things that would
create a community create a place where
people wanted to hang out
it was a completely different atmosphere
because we focused on what would bring
people together what would make them
hang out so
small micro details you might say you
know
plants um really good table top
making the whole atmosphere comfortable
in that sense of you know making people
feel really
at ease great chairs which vitra
kindly donated beautiful lighting
soft lighting beautiful colors it's
about making places
that we feel good in
together bringing people together
that was certainly clear from
conversations i had with
the clients one guy said when i asked
him whether he thought it was
you know frankly a bit silly so
absolutely not you know
the point is it shows that someone cares
and the point is that it's a place they
want to be
together yeah and that comment about
feeling that someone cares is
heartbreaking and
so important i think we have a tendency
to um
put things that we are uncomfortable
with somehow in a box
away you know away is something that i
think
we've specialized in in the past and i
think
all of these issues are our own issues
and we need to use design
to bring us together to build bridges
rather than to divide
and it is a great example of that so
number two
number two at hem which is a
you know high-end hotel in stockholm
it's 12 bedrooms everything is an
opportunity
i think to change perception
everything's an opportunity to make
values visible
and typically i think those
high-end hotels are really about
visible signs of status if you like
typically whatever that is whether it's
money or
you know culture or you know and that
really overrides the sort of so-called
humanistic
um approach
hem is in an arts and crafts building
so 1910 and what
we did was to take if you like the sort
of very humanistic values
of the arts and crafts movement and
updated them so this idea of
a sort of intense domesticity being the
you know
crowning achievement of human cultural
endeavor which
was very much the mantra
we said that there should be no front or
back of house and
to be honest there wasn't really space
for it either but you know we used the
difficulty there
so the hotel happens in front of your
eyes i mean
you know the flowers are arrive in front
of you that you
eat in the kitchen the laundry goes in
and out
in front of you it's you're really part
of the staging of this
entirety and the result has been
extraordinary i mean it's a very lovely
thing i mean it's very much
based on its context so aesthetically
it's very much based on
the you know swedish way of life
updated i would say um but the feeling
that you get from the staff is fantastic
it's really their place and you feel
part of it
and there's a mutual respect i think
that happens
because of the way that it works but
that's designed it didn't happen by
accident
it was you know very intentional
i have stayed there and it is as great
as you're describing it
the next one i'd love to talk about is
actually
not a design in the end it's a design
strategy
design strategy is such an important
part of what we do anyway we always do
it as part of our projects but we
sometimes do it
without doing the design because money
is going to be frankly challenging for a
lot of projects and they can't always
afford to take design right the way
through to the end
i mean it's desirable but you know
sometimes
you have to think of other ways of doing
it oftentimes a very good plan
can get you an extremely long way i mean
it's definitely better than
not having a plan one project that we
have worked on
in that way collaboratively
is in hamburg and it's called the new
institute
and it's a quite interesting
organization it's an ngo it's set in
nine buildings in hamburg it's basically
an institute for advanced studies
and they call themselves a platform for
change and they bring
academics and practitioners so that's
activists artists politicians together
under nine roofs to analyze and then
create
plans for action to address the key
issues of our time be it democracy
environment the human condition etc so
big issues
but what's really fascinating
is that they have this diversity of
expertise that they bring together so
they've
currently got fellows from santa barbara
in philosophy from berlin and economics
from cambridge digital ethics from
venice
environment working together
for you know sometimes over a year on
specific topics
and then engaging with activists and
politicians and so on on these topics
so we came in to figure out
again how to de-institutionalize the
institution how to create
a building that in some way embodied
these brand values and made it possible
to have a space that if you like
embodied democracy
inspired hope created the conditions for
these people to work together
and very different people obviously very
different skill sets some measurable
some really less measurable
all together under one roof
and the interesting thing about doing
this strategy was
also by just touching bricks and mortar
you start to have to define
the brand values initially of course the
ambition
was always in place but a word that had
fallen to the bottom of the list
in fact i'm not even sure if it was even
on the list was care
and in fact now that is the core value
for the building
is care for
each other care for the projects that
they're working on
care really as a value that
can bring society
together and heal
in many cases issues that
badly need addressing so fascinating the
design
strategy ended up influencing the core
values
of the organization in terms of its
debate
and debates as well as um
more functional design outcomes
because i think once you start to make
things real the blindingly obvious
becomes obvious but actually when you're
looking at things theoretically
and especially with the sort of heritage
of language that we've been discussing
those words seem kind of
weak you know when you're talking about
the idea of you know democracy and big
words
um but in the end none of those bigger
concepts
stand a chance if you don't care the
last example
is product and
i think while
you know we are talking about carpets or
tables or benches it seems maybe
you know not um
on the same scale of impact perhaps for
some of the projects that i've mentioned
but i think they really
are because the interesting thing about
small projects is they can be copied
manufacturing production ultimately
is about systems and that's i think
what's so fascinating
about engaging with
a company that makes things a company
called xanat
that's based in bosnia not far from
sarajevo
and that's run by a former world bank
guy
called orhan nichik and he set it up
precisely to address
the issue of not enough jobs
there's been a you know absolutely
massive
exodus of young men from bosnia because
there's obviously nothing doing since
the horribleness of the wars there and
ohan wanted to address that directly
so he wanted to build
on um the carving skills that have been
a part of bosnian culture for many
generations
he had them registered as or pushed to
get them registered it's not his
gift as an intangible cultural heritage
by unesco and
commissioned designers to make
designs that would make
those skills relevant for today and not
just relevant but viable
because in his words he says it's
important that
young bosnians see a better future in
their country and a future in craft
but it's essential
that they are commercially successful
and that's why he works with design
so you know you really have a
responsibility to come up with something
that in some way
integrates those skills but is
not only valuing those skills but also
you know creating value for xanat
and we worked on a project with them
called touch
which is a series of benches and tables
and now smaller pieces but i think
what's what is really interesting
is orhan says that it's not just
in fact a question of bosnia and its
specific needs
that if you think of what's going to
happen in the world as a consequence
of automation you know if you get the
example of how in america they're
probably going to use around 50
of manual jobs
that thinking about design in terms of
labor-intensive jobs like that
that requires skills is actually
something that designers really need to
start to
consider indeed so an incredible
range of projects that have enabled you
to have a social
economic political and ecological impact
as you wish
and then of course then came covid19
so could you talk first about how it
affected your working practice
in the studio design being very much a
team
operation and studio also being a very
discursive
um and communicative design studio how
has it affected your ways of working
and how have you adapted we were very
lucky in that we were working on a
number of design strategies when
covert struck and that it was something
that you could continue to do
although um we did have one client who
and poor chap he's never going to be
allowed to forget it
boldly said i've got balls of steel
balls of steel
so we're going to get through this but
six months later he was
definitely feeling that while we could
get through this
building in the end if you're going to
do it well
requires physical presence so
certainly while it has been possible to
continue
virtually um i think what we've all
appreciated
now is just how important physical
contact is
for creativity for tactility
for imagination
and in the studio
going forwards i am currently
turning it on its head and we are going
to have a space that's more workshop
than office i would say um
and has you know prioritizes
different spaces for human contact rooms
but also you know space for tech
basically so we can communicate
virtually but
the workshop the physicality of what we
do is going to be
you know front and foremost the other
thing that it has made
us appreciate and navigate
is working hours because obviously it's
been catastrophic for
mothers home schooling and a full-time
job
or a nightmarish combination and
so that has made us you know try to
figure out
every which way how to create
uh better working hours if you like
that work for everyone including clients
going forwards so that's been
you know challenging but i think really
great to have to wrap one's head around
i mean bottom line it's been an
accelerant i think to understand what
really matters
about our work and how to make it work
better
for clients and for our team
indeed and can we look at the broader
context of the impact of this
tragic and anguishing pandemic on design
culture
in general and whether it's also been an
accelerant
in terms of raising awareness of the
importance of
different issues in design i think that
there's no question
that it has been i mean every job that
is coming through
the door right now has some element
of social awareness cultural
and sustainability awareness etc
and you know that was happening anyway
but it's
it is definitely more the norm
than before so i think that is great
because designers can't do it on their
own i mean you are part of a team
and you need a client basically you can
educate your client up to a point
but they need to want to go where you're
taking them
i think that designers are essentially
optimists and utopians and
we're in a time where those values are
more needed than ever
and that those skills will be called
upon
you can't pretend it's going to be easy
i think money is going to be
very um short
and budgets will be cut or at least
there won't be any
flexibility in them so we're going to
have to be extremely
smart about how we connect
with our projects and there are going to
be bad times
i mean you know there's definitely been
times over the last year where i've been
sort of weeping into my laptop
it's you know you sometimes feel like
you're hanging on by your finger
fingertips and and you know then it
comes around
so i think it's about keeping the faith
hanging on in there as well
and so final question what are your
plans for the future
um i think we want to continue
essentially to do projects where we make
values visible because in the end what's
interesting
about design is that
by making things real it shows
an alternative reality no matter how
small
like a zanette or a nanny it shows it
can be done that it is possible
because reality is not a fixed thing i
mean it sounds
so obvious to us but you know it
doesn't seem to be to everyone be
realistic
you know it's something people say all
the time but actually
i want to finish on in fact that
wonderful david grober
quote that the adam curtis documentaries
flagged but there isn't a better one
that the ultimate hidden truth of the
world is that it is something
that we could just as easily make
differently
well you're doing it beautifully tough
though it has clearly been
at times so ilse thank you so much for
giving us such an inspiring
and also realistic picture of a designer
who has succeeded in combining
commercial success with integrity while
changing
design culture thank you
thank you for watching if you enjoyed
the talk it would be great if you would
consider making a contribution
which would enable us to continue our
wider educational programs
and you can do so on zone.org
we appreciate your support and look
forward to welcoming you back to the
zone
again soon