HOW TO NAIL AN INTERVIEW YOU'RE UNQUALIFIED FOR Table of Contents Introduction How to steer the interview in the direction you want it to go. How to identify the questions they’re really asking you (things are not always as they appear). What I say at the end of the interview to wrap it up and seal the deal. How to tell captivating stories that trigger the interviewer to remember you above all other candidates. How to proactively identify an interviewer’s concerns, even when they don’t voice them out a loud. Introduction Honestly, I’m just frustrated and I just want to know what they want from me, so I can get to work and start getting on with my career and getting paid what I deserve. - Tanya C. This comment really called out to me. Personally I love just going in to an interview knowing that they’re going to ask me questions about myself and that the whole hour has been set aside to talk about me. I think it’s why I love interviews so much, plus I get to dress up. But the truth is, it’s one of the biggest mistakes people make is believing that is all an interview is about. The interview really needs to be a two way discussion where you are asking just as many (if not more) questions. There are many reasons for this. The main one is that we’ve got stuck in a ‘this is how we’ve always done it’ mindset when it comes to interviews. The interviewer is asking the questions and the interviewee is answering and that’s how the dynamic goes, because it’s the way we’ve ‘always done it’. This puts the interviewer in the position of power, and the interviewee in a subordinate position. This needs to change. Let’s get started. www.asknataliefisher.com 3 How to identify the question behind the question I learned this technique from Ramit Sethi. Then I realized I’d been doing it all along. Basically, it’s the concept that what they’re asking is not what they’re actually asking at all. When they say “Tell me about yourself,” they want to know in the most basic and blunt way “How can you help me?” and “Why do I want to invest in you, take a risk on you, and hire you?” Why don’t they just ask that question then? Well, I love being direct too, but it doesn’t always work that way. It’s kind of like asking “Why do we make small talk? Why don’t we just get on with it?” Why do we have to do the whole “How’s the weather?” conversation? Why can’t we just skip the B.S. and talk for real? The small talk is uncomfortable for some people and even annoying, because it’s the same with everyone. “How are you?” “Good, how are you?” People say “good” when they’re actually not good, or there are those people that you regret asking how they are, because they will give you a long spiel about how they have a cyst or their back is in pain, and maybe you don’t have time to listen. A lot of the interview questions are like this too. “Tell me about yourself” is a great example. It’s kind of like “How are you?” So, how do you get past the B.S. and talk for real in an interview when it really counts? You do this is by sharing solid stories. www.asknataliefisher.com 4 How to tell captivating stories that trigger the interviewer to remember you above other all candidates Telling your unique stories is by far the best way to determine whether you’re a good fit to work with them and whether they like your style. If they don’t, that’s ok. Don’t aim to please. Instead, aim to reflect who you are as honestly as possible. So, when they ask you “How do you manage situations under pressure?” instead of saying, “I manage them very well, I gather my priorities, and then I decide what’s most important, and then I execute each task one at a time in order of importance,” tell them a story of how you did exactly that. I’ll show you the difference. For example: Let me tell you a story about this! I had a project to manage that I was given to me at the last minute. I was told that the person who was originally managing the project had been relieved of their duties, and I needed to step up and take it on. The project was moving one of our client’s offices of 700 people, and it was happening next week! In that time, I needed to gather all the info on the work that had been already done and make sure I was up to speed, while figuring out how I would take over to make sure it went smoothly. So, here’s what I did and how it turned out. www.asknataliefisher.com 5 How to tell captivating stories that trigger the interviewer to remember you above other all candidates What are you more likely to remember: the first or second answer? Stories have been my number one tool in interviews. I attribute my story file as my biggest success secret to getting the job offers I’ve received. In an interview, being able to develop a personal connection is rare. There’s not a ton of time in an interview to establish that connection with the person who may be your future boss. Stories expedite that process. You can touch on what they’re really asking by giving them a story almost every time. They want to know you and how you have handled things in the past, so they can get the best sense ever of how you will handle things in the future. One of my previous HR co-workers put it this way... He said, “I would never ask someone how would you wrestle a bear if you had to? Because they would say something like this: ‘Well I grabbed the spear, I went up and stabbed him in the chest with all my might and he fell to the ground and it was epic.’ The end. When in reality, if he ever had to actually wrestle a bear the story would be different. www.asknataliefisher.com 6 How to tell captivating stories that trigger the interviewer to remember you above other all candidates It would be more like, ‘Well, I was so scared my heart started pounding as soon as I saw the bear. I scrambled. I couldn’t find my bear spray. I fumbled around in my backpack while the bear was growling. I was scared out of my skull. I tried to run. I grabbed a stick off the ground…” etc. etc… You can see where this is going. Moral of the story: if you ask someone what they would do if… you’ll get a totally different answer than if you can ask them what did they do when they were in a certain situation. Hypothetical vs. Real Life. By asking “Tell me about a time when you did x and what happened?” you get an answer that is so much more telling of the person’s character. www.asknataliefisher.com 7 How to proactively identify interviewer’s concerns (even when they don’t voice them out a loud) There are things that certain hiring managers are afraid of. For example, a freelance writer might be renowned for being late, lazy, and not very good with deadlines. So, if you’re going in for a freelance writer position then you can tell a story about how you’re good with deadlines, how you’ve met your deadlines each time (sometimes you even deliver early), and that story easily addresses their concern. Tell them before they ask, because they want to ask, but they won’t ask head on. Another example: In the startup culture, the founders of startups are are thrilled when people are willing to work based on what they produce, instead of based on the hours they are there. Startup founders are looking for people who are willing to be compensated based on merit, not necessarily the amount of time they ‘look busy’ for. If you know this going in, you’re a step ahead of the game. You can straight up say this, or you can tell a story that implies it. Each industry and each role has its concerns with the hires they choose. Each industry has developed its stereotypes for employees both good and bad, so the trick is to be proactive and go in there knowing what those stereotypes are, armed with stories to ease the concerns of the hiring manager. www.asknataliefisher.com 8 How to proactively identify interviewer’s concerns (even when they don’t voice them out a loud) When I was hiring for an administrative assistant, my biggest concern was that the person would not follow through on their tasks, that tasks would get forgotten or fall through the cracks, and I would end up bugging, nagging, following up, and stressing out about things not being done. I had this fear because many administrative assistants I’d worked with procrastinated and let things slip. If a person came in and reassured me with stories that they were someone who got things done quickly and didn’t let things slip, that person would stand out to me immediately. www.asknataliefisher.com 9 How to steer the interview in the direction you want it to go Have you ever gone to an interview, answered all the questions, and then thought, ‘Wait a minute I forgot to mention this, or that,’ or ‘Damn it, I should have said this, or I should have told them that?’ That’s happened to me, too, and among the people I’ve worked with, it’s pretty common. The way that we do interviews these days is a very scripted method. Interviewer asks the questions. You answer the questions. At the end, you get to ask questions, and you ask the 3 that you were told to prepare. The interview ends. This is a thing of the past. It’s time to shake things up. First of all, there is no rule that says that’s how an interview has to go. It should be a conversation, a back and forth discussion, not a scripted Q&A meeting. Asking questions during the interview is fine. You’re interviewing them just as much as they’re interviewing you. www.asknataliefisher.com 10 How to steer the interview in the direction you want it to go One of my favourite career experts who really likes to break the mould is Liz Ryan. Her technique is to deflect the question if it’s a stupid question, or just pretend they asked you something else all together. For example if they ask you “Why do you want to work here?” you don't have to answer it. You can pretend they asked you something else: “What interested you enough about the company to show up to the interview today, because let’s face it: maybe you haven’t decided if you want to work there yet or not? Treat the interview as a chat or a discussion with a potential client. You want to find out what their needs are in great detail, to see if you’re the one to help them meet those needs. That means you need to ask more questions than most people do. Liz Ryan (a very obnoxious but honest career expert and founder of the Human Workplace) says that most people take a ‘Hermione Granger’ attitude to interviewing. In this case, that means that most people sit and politely answer questions. They don't speak unless spoken to. They act like teacher’s pet, straight-A students. Their internal dialogue says, “Oh, I hope they like me.” Take a bit of the control back by not waiting until the end to ask questions. This turns the whole shebang into a new type of meeting. It levels the playing field and turns an interrogation into a discussion between two parties, both wanting to find out if they get along, if they share the same ideas, and if it will ultimately be the right working relationship. Tell stories, ask questions before the end, and turn the interview into a discussion. www.asknataliefisher.com 11 What I say at the end of every interview to wrap it up and seal the deal At the end of all my interviews, I always say, “Regardless of what you decide, I really enjoyed chatting with you today.” I always look at interviews like networking opportunities. They are never a waste of time, even if you don’t get hired. I have no real expectations going in, as I’m there to learn and explore. I have just as many questions about them as they do about me. If you don’t attach expectations, then you’ll never be disappointed if you don't get that particular job, and let’s face it: every job isn’t a good fit for you. Only a few will be. You don’t want every job. You only want the one that will be the best fit for your personality and your life. Have you ever ended up in a job where a couple of days or weeks in you realize it’s just not for you? I have. By approaching the interview in this new way, you can avoid a situation like that. By bringing yourself to interviews and not pretending to be the person they want, or acting like the teacher's pet who will do whatever they want for whatever pay they offer, you’re thoughtful, deliberate, and you have questions of your own. Keep this quote in mind when going to any interview: “Those who get you deserve you, those who don’t get you don’t deserve you.” - Liz Ryan www.asknataliefisher.com 12 THANK YOU ! Please feel free to email me at natalie@asknataliefisher.com with any feedback on this Guide. Any ‘aha moments’ or big wins? No win is too small. I’d love to hear all about them. Thanks for being a part of my community. In Work & Life I’ve got your back -Natalie Fisher
