Book 5
1) Ideal city, woman should be educated as guardians and that the guardians should have
woman and children in common. Two main objections and Socrates’s reply?
Objections1. Woman and men have different natures so they should not be educated as guardians
Socrates’ Answer-The gender difference between men and woman is irrelevant
-People are distinct by nature and only with respect to whether one is destined to be a
craftsmen or a guardian
– Among women, there will be woman whose natures make them cobblers and some
whose nature makes them guardians. The female guardians will be the best of
the
women in the same way in which the male guardians are the mbest of the
men
– Women should receive the same education of the guardians and only these women
can be companios of male guardians
Second Objection-
It is is it either possible or beneficial for the guardians to share women and children
Socrates Reply–
- The best city is the city where there is no discord about what is good and bad (a city that is not
governed by personal gain)
A city where the guardians are “relatives” to the city where there will be no disagreements of
selfishness among guardians
– they want the common good bc they have everything in common
– So the communion of women and children is beneficial to the city
2) What are philosophers according to Socrates (difference between knowledge and
opinion)
Socrates says the definition of a philosopher is that a philosopher loves wisdom as a whole and
not parts of it.
-One who tries all kinds of learning
Ex. Lover of wine loves all kinds of wine
Objection– definition not fine grained enough bc to this definition the lovers of sights and sounds
would be philosophers
Socrates reply– Lovers of sights and sounds are like philosophers but are not true philosophers
Distinctions--lovers of sight, crafts, etc are people who are able to think of the many but unable to grasp the
form itself
The former are like dreams who believe what they dream is real (only have opinions)
The latter are awake (have true knowledge)
Book 6-
Most people believe that philosophers are either vicious or even if they are decent are
worthless. Socrates reply?
Vicious-
Those who have a philosophical nature and all of the virtues (good memory, easiness of
learning) get corrupted so do great evil
1. Get corrupted by being brought up the wrong way
By the Sophists (what the mob likes or dislikes)
2. By people who flatter them
3. By people who will try every means to dissuade them from philosophy
Those of a petty nature will take up philosophy but are not fit for it so will beget bad children
Only a small group of people with philosophical nature who will pursue it consistently (S is one)
– Usually these people will lead their lives In a way that will save their soul and not
interested in politics, under the right constitution would be able to save society
2) Analogy with the sun “Offspring of the Good”
Visible (world of the many) and intelligible (forms)
– sun allows sense of sight to see things in the visible world
– good allows understanding of knowledge and beauty
Image of the line-
Allegory in the cave-
Prisoners chained to a bench in a cave, all they can see is shadows moving on the wall in front
of them, which are casr by statues being moved above and behind where the prisoners cannot
see
-Not knowing any better these prisoners think the shadows are real in the same way a person
may be seduced by the imaginative world of stories are unable to recognize the higher reality
-If the prisoners were released they could turn around and see that the shadows they thought
were real were only projections of the statues behind them
– They would then think of these statues as real just like a person who thinks sights and
sounds are the most real thing there is
– If they wander out of the cave and into the outuside world at firs tthey would be blinded by the
light but they would eventually be able to see all the objects in the world around them
– They would think of these objects as real just like a person who can grasp the means of the
thought of the Forms that underlie everyday exisistance
– Finally these prisoners might be able to look at the sun itself and recognize it as the source of
all light and life
– The sun is like the Form of Good just as the sun is the source of everything in the visibible
world
– The Form of Good is the source of everything in the intelligible world