ELECTRONIC ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGY ARTICULATION COMMITTEE MEETING
HOST: RED RIVER COLLEGE
JUNE 28-29, 2012
JUNE 28: RED RIVER COLLEGE ROBLIN CENTRE CAMPUS, 160 PRINCESS STREET, ROOM P107
JUNE 29: FAIRMONT HOTEL, 2 LOMBARD PLACE, HARROW ROOM
ATTENDEES:
Haider Al-Saidi
Gary Schwartz
Bob Gill
Jim Murtagh
Ali Palizban
Red River College
Okanagan College
BCIT
SAIT Polytechnic
BCIT
halsaidi@rrc.ca
gschwartz@okanagan.bc.ca
bob_gill@bcit.ca
jim.murtagh@sait.ca
ali.palizban@bcit.ca
CALL TO ORDER AND WELCOME
Haider Al-Saidi called the meeting to order at 9am and thanked all for attending, followed by a round
table introduction of attendees and welcome to out-of-town guests.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA AND REVIEW OF MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING
Addition to agenda: 9. Program Matrix
Addition to agenda: 10. Articulation Committee website
Bob motioned to accept agenda, Jim seconded
Raili McIvor no longer works for BCCAT
Provide BCCAT with copy of 2012 minutes
Gary motioned to accept the minutes, Bob seconded
PRESENTATION OF MEMBER REPORTS
These notes are of what was said in the meeting but not included in the reports (attached).
Red River College – Haider Al-Saidi
- Haider mentioned discrepancy in the admission of Manitoba students and international students, local
students are placed on a waiting list while the international student quota allows international students
to skip the waiting list. Bob suggested altering admission requirements and giving preference to
students who complete specific courses (ie physics or math)
- Student intakes: items 1-4 and 8 have 2 intakes, 5-7 have 1 intake, 9 is ongoing
- 32 electrical, 16 instrumentation, and 32 electronic for second year
- no problem recruiting students, but difficulty in finding space for them, not able to accommodate the
demand
- job prospects: 92% of graduates get a job in their field (not specified if this is a permanent or full-time
job), many students in electrical and instrumentation receive an offer before graduating
- electrical and instrumentation most popular, students are reluctant to enter electronic
- RRC has received applications for September 2013
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- admission requirement for first year electrical is grade 12 graduation, no specific grade average or
courses required
- high attrition, this year almost 50%, however this is still better than the University of Manitoba
- dc circuits and math seem to be the two courses where students have the most difficulty
- program renewal: problem of high content in courses, first two phases of process are complete, new
curriculum to begin 2013-2014 school year
- flexibility in program renewal, faculty makes majority of decisions in designing program, not
mandated/restricted aside from hour limit per day and accreditation limit in credit hours
- program renewal information gathered by curriculum development department will be distributed to
all chairs once complete as a way of saying thank you for co-operation
- number of hours varies between colleges – instrumentation at RRC last year went up to 39 hours,
highest of all colleges present
- Jim discussed the restrictions SAIT faces, they have no authority over making changes to curriculum
- the CTTAM technical project course was offered on Saturdays for people with international credentials
seeking CET certification, not current RRC students
- challenges: attracting instructors, we have retirements coming up which will leave a need for
experienced and trained instructors
- aim is for instructors to have at least 10 years of industry experience which is difficult to find,
additional difficulty due to Manitoba Hydro currently seeking engineers and offering generous signing
bonuses with which RRC cannot compete
- students who start first year in January (second intake) must take classes through the summer to catch
up to the September intake students for starting in September for second year, this creates a conflict for
instructors who need to take their vacation time. Haider would like to remove the summer courses to
clear this problem.
- space limitation: program has great potential for expansion but limited due to space
- release time for staff involved in research activities: instructors with most experience are first to be
involved in research leaving a gap which is filled by less-experienced instructors.
- a difference in instructor contact hours between colleges was discovered. RRC has no limit specified in
contract, instructors have around 22 hours per week, in class (around 4 courses), highest of other
colleges. BCIT has a limit of 2 courses; SAIT has a limit of 21 hours (656 hours per year whereas RRC’s
limit is 800)
Okanagan College – Gary Schwartz
- bringing in about half the students that previously enrolled
- 2 year general program, 6 courses per semester, 4 semesters
- students in class 30-32 hours per week
- fall semester 16 weeks (September-December), winter 20 weeks (January-May)
- 5 faculty members, one retiring and one currently on educational leave
- Gary Schwartz is retiring this year
- program emphasis is on communications
- all lecture notes, lab and assignments, answer keys, mid-term and final exams, and exam answer keys
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are all kept on a staff drive so everything is accessible and consistent for faculty
- faculty workload is 15-16 hours per week
- September intake only
- will admit 26 students this year, counting on 2-3 no-shows; limit of 24
- trying to keep second year numbers above 15
- money gained from transition money from transfer of Okanagan College University to Okanagan
College is running out, may increase pressure to maintain numbers
- attrition at 40-50%
- usually 12-16 students graduate (this year was 11)
- a lot of jobs in maintenance and repair areas
- still have fabrication courses
- try to use real equipment as much as possible
- participate in Robocup competition (international), Okanagan runs the western Canada competition for
high school students
- just started attending Skills Canada, fist time entering received gold at both provincial and national
levels
- around $600,000 budget for 26 courses
- bridging program with UBCO, now being chosen over the Comosun/University of Victoria bridging
program
- many of the students going into engineering are the top students, leaving a lower quality of
technologists. Gary emphasizes to students that there are well-paying jobs available in the technology
field
BCIT – Bob Gill
- new college president and vp, a lot of positive changes
- 2 intakes, 96 in September, 64 in January
- both diploma and degree programs offered
- first year is common to diploma and degree, if you have 70% or higher after first year you can apply to
degree program. (Electronics Engineering Technology) Diploma has 4 different options: electrical power,
automation and instrumentation, telecom, computer control.
- night school, bachelor of technology program, been in place for 13 years, can enroll with any
technology certificate, up to 7 years to complete, courses evenings and weekends, currently around 140
students at all levels (after completing this students can write one exam to gain B.Eng)
- each option has 12 courses, 6 in term 3 and 6 in term 4 (some courses are common to all options)
- semesters are 17 weeks (September-January, February-May)
- 28-31 hours per week, depending on the term
- dual intake, every course, every semester
- co-op required for degree program, optional for diploma program
- attrition rate 20-25%
- Share-In Share-Out, for all of BCIT, allows students to upload assignments and download notes
- intellectual property - staff own all documents they produce; if paid to create something by the
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college, it is joint property
- personal professional development fund $1900/year, can be pulled out for anything at any time or
equipment, rolls over to next year if not used, and institutional fund which you apply for, can be used for
educational time off with pay. Department also has options for funding (RRC has $17000 for 4
departments, roughly 250 people)
- 70-90% graduate employment rate depending on option
- donation from PPM Sierra of $130,000 of equipment
SAIT Polytechnic – Jim Murtagh
- 3 major buildings, $400million Trades and Technology Centre
- Jim works in the School of ICT, associated with 14 diploma programs, 1 applied degree, 5 fast-track
degree, plus cont-ed programs. 6 chairs with multiple programs each
- Software development, 64 students
- electronics engineering technology, 36 students accepted (32 capacity)
- going over quota is a problem
- electrical engineering is part of the school of energy
- electrical apprentices are part of the school of construction
- electronics is part of the ICT sector
- D2L management system
- intellectual property – if it’s made on SAIT time with SAIT equipment, it belongs to SAIT
- curriculum development is taken on by the faculty
- length of diplomas is mandated by the provincial government (Alberta)
- 15 week semesters
- credits based on number of hours in class has been changed to be based on effort required per course
- each student has a laptop (paid for by student)
- Crossworks for micro-processors
- set of textbooks purchased for use in lab (stay in lab), but students have to buy the software (saves
student having to buy both)
- don’t use workbench because it’s now too expensive
- there are some legal issues around retaining material for accreditation purposes
- this year’s graduates are all employed
- 100% of grads from last few years have been employed
- low retention rate
- in top 5 departments that are most costly to graduate a student
- 22 from 36 moving into second semester
- newest instructor has been there for 12 years
- challenges with faculty coming up as the staff get older and retire (a lot in their 60s)
- first semester has only analog scopes, no digital scopes until second semester
- program is full with 36 and 35 waitlisted (strictly electronics engineering technology)
- change in first-come, first-admitted; last year started “early admission” – students meeting certain
requirements get first admission, after that everyone else is put into an admission pool from which
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additional applicants can be picked
- small changes for 2013 (ie English requirement to go up to 60%)
- will also increase ESL requirements, this is a trouble area for students which causes problems
academically
- Professional development, $800 per person for 2 years, doesn’t roll over if unused, has to be approved
by the dean
- difficulty promoting program because it’s hard to define the job anymore
- accredited with Navy
Program Renewal Process
- Haider fears CCTT will create a division between provinces, will affect transferability and graduation for
students, Haider hopes we can come to an agreement regardless of the accreditation boards
- Provincial designations mean there is no one person to talk to discuss this problem
- Jim emphasized the need for our entire institutions need to be involved, not just on the department
level
- Haider believes the provincial governments would support us as we’re needed to provide graduates
- Gary suggested drafting a letter to individual governments saying we need one organization, try to
exert pressure, he believes we have the power because Western Canada is reliant on electronic power
- Bob said we should seek a contact at the federal level
- this group is unique, other departments/branches of engineering do not have this line of
communication and dialogue with other colleges in other provinces
- Gary said that creating the articulation committee website/collection of information would become a
valuable asset which can be used as leverage for support
Open Discussion About Transferability
- we need standardized fundamental knowledge (ie: transistors in all programs)
- need to validate competencies of CTAB, add and delete as required
- provide consistency across Canada
- we’re able to react the fastest to changes in industry, at this level, more than certification boards
- communication within group allows learning of trends in teaching EET, sharing info (ie: Alberta needs
EET grads), and innovation
- allows us to know where to send students based on specialties of each college
- sharing course information is beneficial, leads to improved delivery of program
- the ideal would be a national committee (instead of just Western Canada)
- could trigger country-wide competition
- useful for new instructors, or to raise the expertise of all instructors
- need mission statement for group
- helps maintain quality of programs
- possibly facilitate instructor exchanges
Discussion about IEEE student groups
Jim closed it at SAIT, found that students weren’t interested and weren’t using it appropriately, and
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instructors weren’t cooperative, and it became a distraction for students. Haider suggested a student
exchange; IEEE would probably subsidize travel costs. Bob showed BCIT’s IEEE student website to group.
Haider will get RRC IEEE instructor to send Jim list of students involved at IEEE. No defined room
required anymore. Encourage industry members to get involved.
Expanding Membership
- once vision and missions statements are complete we should expand the membership Canada-wide
- change name to “Canadian Conference on Electronic Engineering Technology”
- should we go beyond electronic to include electrical? Pro of expanding is being able to address
different articulation with other departments within engineering, con is it’ll become a large group
making it difficult to make decisions and maintain focus, and possibly become unmanageable
- could have general meeting followed by break-out groups for different departments (electrical,
instrumentation, power)
- all committee members can contact our respective power/electrical departments and inform them
about this committee, then if there’s enough interest we can split our next meeting to have one general
meeting and one specified meeting
- we can arrange next step around the level of interest
- if we are trying to exert pressure, we will probably need involvement from other groups
- need a mission statement and guiding statement for group – to be determined through email
Skills Canada
- Gary encouraged all colleges to participate in Skills Canada
- Okanagan sent 3 students last year and were the only 3 in BC, won gold, silver, and bronze
- Gary would like to see all the colleges get involved and then start challenging the universities
- shows that the college can compete at the national level
- Haider has an EA (educational assistant) coach the student participant so there is no conflict with the
instructor’s schedule involving the competition
Course Resource Sharing
- run it by the department to ensure that it’s alright to have a central course repository site for all course
information
- break it down into different sections by course and then have folders for different institutions
- voluntary
- uploaded by department, not by instructors – instructors to have “read only” access
- depends on institution policies – check to see with individual institutions
- assignments, lab projects, exams, with answer keys
- items to check: union restrictions, copyright issues
- allows us to see the level other colleges are at in different courses
- further discussion by email
- should be agenda item for next year to see how it has evolved
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New Trends
- new software in market for simulation and design
- Ali would like to integrate courses to use software because it is in industry
- Simulink, matlab, ltpsy (free electronic system), free version of pad, pscad, crossworks, powerworld,
code composer, labview, optnet (for network simulators)
- smartgrid/smart network applications
- teaching techniques (ie how to teach to the facebook generation), using new technologies, inductive
learning
- mobile app for remote control over systems
Housekeeping
- a standard format should be created for reports, should only include details about the department, not
the college overall
- reports to be put on website
- contact list to be created and distributed, also put on website
- Matrix of college information to be completed and returned to Taryn Presley at Red River College, she
will compile information and re-distribute
- next host: Camosun (check with Alan Duncan), if not then SAIT
- for future meetings, the representative from the hosting institution will be the meeting chair and a
secretary will be chosen and will hold the position for two year periods
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