McKinney, Stephen, Hall, Stuart, Lowden, Kevin, Smith, Marjorie, Beaumont, Paul (2014) Searching for Meaning – Science and Religious Education Teachers collaborating in interdisciplinary teaching and learning, Scottish Educational Review, 46 (1), 32-47. Searching for Meaning – Science and Religious Education Teachers collaborating in interdisciplinary Teaching and Learning Stephen McKinney University of Glasgow Stuart Hall University of Glasgow Kevin Lowden University of Glasgow Marjorie Smith Scottish Schools Education Research Centre Paul Beaumont Scottish Schools Education Research Centre ABSTRACT One of the aims of Curriculum for Excellence (CfE) in Scotland is greater inclusion of interdisciplinary learning and teaching in school education. There is, arguably, a limited amount of guidance in the CfE literature to advise and support secondary teachers in the practical implications of the planning, preparation and implementation of interdisciplinary learning and teaching. This paper examines this guidance and insights from research literature and presents the findings from a research project, Searching for Meaning, which focused on science and religious education teachers collaborating in planned interdisciplinary learning and teaching in secondary schools. The paper identifies some of the key factors for effective interdisciplinary learning and teaching between science and religious education. These include: support from the school leadership; openness to interdisciplinary work and willingness to learn about other disciplines; teamwork, dialogue and joint planning and the need for time and support for teachers. These findings are potentially significant for other forms of interdisciplinary learning and teaching. INTRODUCTION This paper reports on a research project entitled Searching for Meaning (SfM), which was funded by the Esmée Fairbairn Foundation and was conducted by researchers from the University of Glasgow in conjunction with staff at the Scottish Schools Education Research Centre (SSERC). The project sought to understand: the practical and procedural implications for science and religious education teachers as they engaged in collaborative interdisciplinary work and the impact of interdisciplinary learning on the pupils. 32 The research was undertaken in two phases. First, a questionnaire was sent by mail to a large sample of science and religious education teachers in Scotland. Once the questionnaire had been completed and returned, science and religious education teachers from a number of denominational and non-denominational schools across the country were invited to participate in CPD events organized by SSERC.1 The participants discussed collaboration between science and religious education in their schools and SSERC resources were provided to facilitate the collaboration.2 After the collaborative work had commenced in a number of schools, members of the research team conducted the second phase of the research: interviews and focus groups in four schools in late 2012. The aim was to discuss: good practice (including use of resources); further resource and development needs and potential barriers to collaboration in interdisciplinary work. The four schools were selected because there was evidence of successful collaboration or there were serious barriers to collaboration. In the two schools that collaborated successfully, the team interviewed teachers of science and religious education and conducted focus groups with pupils. In the two schools that encountered serious challenges, members of the team interviewed one teacher to discuss why the collaboration had not been successful and the barriers that had been encountered. This paper focuses on the second phase of the research. The article will, first, examine the policy and theoretical context for the research, followed by a brief explanation of the methodology of the quantitative research and a summary of the findings of this phase. The paper will continue with an explanation of the sample for the qualitative research, a detailed presentation of the findings of this phase and a discussion of the findings. The paper will conclude with some final comments. INTERDISCIPLINARY LEARNING AND TEACHING IN CURRICULUM FOR EXCELLENCE The Curriculum for Excellence (CfE) initiative for children aged 3-18 in Scotland states that the purpose of the curriculum can be encapsulated in four capacities that will enable young people to be successful learners (which includes openness to new thinking and ideas); confident individuals; responsible citizens and effective contributors (Education Scotland 2014a). CfE identifies eight curricular areas or subjects for school education: expressive arts, health and wellbeing, languages, mathematics, religious and moral education, sciences, social studies and technologies (Scottish Executive, 2006). One of the key CfE documents, Building the Curriculum 3 (2008) identifies four contexts for learning as important factors or elements in building the framework of the curriculum; one of the four contexts for learning is interdisciplinary learning (The Scottish 1 The state funded school system consists of denominational and non-denominational schools. The vast majority of the denominational schools are Roman Catholic (SCES, 2014; Scottish Government, 2014). 2 ‘Science’ refers to chemistry, physics and biology. There are a wide variety of titles for the study of religion in Scottish schools across denominational and non-denominational schooling: religious education; religious and moral education; religious, moral and philosophical studies; religious studies. These titles are used with inconsistency, thus, we have chosen to adopt ‘religious education’ as a useful generic term for both denominational and non-denominational schools except where specific terms are used in documentation or in interviews. 33 Government, 2008). Interdisciplinary learning involves two or more disciplines and aims to support learners in the use of ‘knowledge and skills from different disciplines’ to ‘help them make real connections between subjects and disciplines’ (Learning and Teaching Scotland, 2010). The vision of the application of interdisciplinary learning that emerges in CfE is that it is an ‘important approach at all levels of CfE’. It is important to note that the use of the term ‘inter-disciplinary’ is based on an assumption that extant discrete disciplines continue to be in position and continue to be relevant ‘modes of thought’ and CfE advises that there should be a balance between opportunities for interdisciplinary learning and subject learning (Moran, 2002, p. 17; White, 2004a, p. 188, Education Scotland 2014b). The introduction of greater emphasis on interdisciplinary learning at all levels of CfE, including secondary schools, can appear to highlight a fundamental difference in learning and teaching between primary and secondary schooling. It may be easier to introduce (or continue) interdisciplinary learning in the primary school because the teachers have been educated to facilitate learning across the curriculum and there is more time and scope within the working week to enact interdisciplinary learning (Humes, 2013). There may even be time and scope to create an interdisciplinary classroom (Stepien et al., 1993). However, some caution must be exercised: while the primary teacher may be better positioned to adopt this greater emphasis on interdisciplinary work, there still remains significant emphasis on subject disciplines in the primary school (Savage, 2011). Secondary schools have traditionally had a strong focus on discrete subject areas throughout the different stages, with much less emphasis on interdisciplinary learning and teaching, and less experience of planning and implementing this form of learning (White, 2004b). There are serious challenges in introducing (or increasing) interdisciplinary learning in the secondary school and potentially a serious tension in preserving the balance of the specialist nature of these discreet subject areas (and teachers) with a more flexible and porous interdisciplinary learning. It is important to examine CfE documentation and supporting documentation for elucidation on interdisciplinary learning and teaching in secondary schools and guidance on how to introduce and consolidate this form of learning and teaching across disciplinary areas. The discussion of interdisciplinary learning and teaching in the CfE documentation focuses on (1) the coherence of this form of learning with the fundamental philosophy of CfE and the underlying principles (e.g. the experiences and outcomes) and (2) the rationale; aims; description; importance of rigour; potential benefits and evaluation of this approach to learning (Learning and Teaching Scotland, 2010, Education Scotland, 2102). There is a foundational statement outlining the features of effective interdisciplinary learning on page 21 in Building the Curriculum 3 (2008) (reproduced in subsequent major documents / web statements): Can take the form of individual one-off projects or longer courses of study Is planned around clear purposes Is based upon experiences and outcomes drawn from different curriculum areas or subjects within them Ensures progression in skills and in knowledge and understanding 34 Can provide opportunities for mixed stage learning which is interest based (The Scottish Government, 2008). There are other brief references to interdisciplinary learning in Building the Curriculum 3, but no further explanation of interdisciplinary learning or guidance on planning, preparation and implantation for interdisciplinary learning. There is a more detailed explanation of interdisciplinary learning and guidance for implementation in Interdisciplinary Learning: Some Guidance Points (Education Scotland, 2010). This is a preparatory document for the Learning and Teaching Scotland discussion paper Interdisciplinary Learning (Learning and Teaching Scotland, 2010). Interdisciplinary Learning: Some Guidance Points places some emphasis on the implications for teachers and working processes when planning to implement interdisciplinary learning. This document advises that interdisciplinary learning in the secondary school requires ‘teams of teachers’ (p. 6) to engage in what is described as ‘joint planning’ (p. 8), ‘plan…jointly’ (p. 11) or ‘team planning’ (p. 10), aware that this learning needs ‘careful planning’ (p. 10) and has ‘to be planned fully’ (p.3). The document states that it is important to ensure that ‘teachers have time, opportunity and support to develop interdisciplinary activities’ (p. 10), reiterating the importance of time and support on page 11. The document recommends appropriate CPD, because: It takes time for teachers to work together and think out why interdisciplinary learning is valuable and the best ways of developing it in their particular contexts (p. 12). The advice in this document, ultimately, provides no insights beyond these statements and this is illustrated in the exemplar of good interdisciplinary learning drawn from a secondary school (science and technology teachers working together) (pp. 20-23). This exemplar fails to provide any description or explanation of the careful and full joint planning of the team that had been identified in the document. The document, Interdisciplinary Learning (Leaning and Teaching Scotland, 2010) and the guidance on the Education Scotland website (Education Scotland 2014b) (most of the key points of this 2010 paper are replicated in the formal guidance for interdisciplinary learning on the Education Scotland website) place very little emphasis on the teacher, but, consistent with other CfE documentation, are primarily focused on the learner and, in this instance, the benefits of interdisciplinary learning for the learner. There are some very concise comments concerning the importance of planning and adequate time for planning (the substance of a short paragraph from page 11 of Interdisciplinary Learning: Some Guidance Points): They [schools] also need to create the time and provide the support for teachers to plan collaboratively for interdisciplinary learning. Such provision of time and support makes a very important contribution to teachers’ continuing professional development (Education Scotland, 2010; Learning and Teaching Scotland, 2010, p. 6). The impetus for the time and support that would come from the schools would presumably have to come from the school leadership. There are also three bullet points in a section entitled Guiding Principles: 35 Appropriate balance of disciplinary and interdisciplinary learning… Effective organization and/or timetabling Provision of appropriate time and support for teachers’ learning (Learning and Teaching Scotland, 2010, p. 12; Education Scotland, 2014b). There are, however, no other references to the importance of joint team planning. The concise document CfE Briefing 4 Interdisciplinary Learning (2012) discusses planning for interdisciplinary learning but much of this is focused on the purpose and learning intentions of the learning (Education Scotland). This document contains one mention of teamwork and effective dialogue between practitioners. This document also provides some guidance for teachers to take interdisciplinary learning forward but this is a checklist to ensure that the interdisciplinary learning meets the needs of the learners. In summary, the examination of CfE documentation and support documentation demonstrates that there is little more than a skeleton outline of some of the key aspects of planning, preparation and implementation of interdisciplinary learning: the importance of team-work, dialogue and careful joint planning and the need for schools and school leaders to provide time and support for teachers, including appropriate CPD. In the absence of more detailed advice from CfE documentation, further insights need to be sought from research literature to identify additional key aspects for effective interdisciplinary learning and teaching – aspects that are crucial if this form of learning and teaching is to be implemented successfully at the secondary school level. Teachers within disciplines must recognize the academic status of other disciplines, be open to communication with other disciplines and recognize the value of interdisciplinary work. This will mean eschewing any hierarchical notions of disciplinary superiority and status, grounded in exclusionary discourses of ‘more powerful’ forms of knowledge (Paechter, 2000; Moran, 2002). It will also mean the rejection of dismissive stereotypes of other subject disciplines (Harris et al, 2012). If interdisciplinary learning between two or more subjects is to succeed, then, teachers of the disciplinary subjects will require knowledge of the concepts, skills and processes of each subject’ and how they relate to each other to forge genuine links between the subjects (our italics) (Turner-Bisset, 2001, p. 46). Teachers cannot engage in any form of meaningful interdisciplinary work without this relevant knowledge, which can be acquired and developed through opportunities such as in-service meetings in schools (Gardener and Boix-Mansill, 1999; Turner Bisset, 2001). If this knowledge is not acquired, however, then the interdisciplinary learning may be more accurately termed as pre-disciplinary work – work that is not informed, but drawing chiefly from common sense or experience (Gardener and Boix-Mansill, 1999). The team teaching that is part of interdisciplinary learning must, as is stated in the CfE documentation, be planned carefully and be supported but also requires commitment, enthusiasm, negotiation and harmonious working relationships between the teachers as they work in a new and unfamiliar way (Warwick, 1971; Plank, 2011). There can be limited commercial resources available to support teachers who engage in interdisciplinary learning and there can be insufficient time to create adequate 36 resources (Harvie, 2012). Where resources do exist, the teachers will be required to master the new material – another demand on time (Plank, 2011). INTERDISCIPLINARY LEARNING: SCIENCE AND RELIGIOUS EDUCATION Interdisciplinary learning can incorporate a number of disciplines but interdisciplinary learning and teaching between science and religion is sometimes viewed as ‘difficult’ and ethically volatile’ (Byrne and Brodie, 2012). This combination appears to be more problematic than collaboration between subjects such as science and maths or between religious education and humanities subjects, because collaboration between science and religion education in schools is connected to the hotly contested, contemporary debate about the nature of the relationship between science and religion (Dawkins, 2006, 2011; Grayling, 2011, 2013; Harris, 20014, 2006; Hitchens, 2007). This debate can often lead to polarized positions: science and religion are perceived to be fundamentally different ways to understand reality that have recourse to different types of evidence (Reiss, 2008). A more nuanced understanding of the relationship can be discerned in a variety of models that have been constructed to categorize contrasting relationships between the disciplinary areas of science and religion, for example: (1) conflict; independence; dialogue and integration (Barbour, 1990; Reiss, 2008); (2) religion trumps science; science trumps religion; independence and integration (Nord, 1999) and (3) conflict, concordat and consonance (Astley and Francis, 2010). These categorizations identify positions of independence (there is no relationship) and conflict but also the possibility of some form of relationship through accommodation and even potential integration between science and religion. This variety of models can also be applied to science and religious education in secondary schools, and, adopting the more positive model of potential integration, provides scope for opportunities of interdisciplinary learning and teaching between science and religious education. Reiss (2008) argues that learning and teaching on science/religion issues will enhance the learning of young people in science. This can be extended to include enhancement of learning and teaching in religious education. As noted previously, the aspiration of the Scottish Government is for greater emphasis on interdisciplinary learning within schools and this incorporates collaboration between science and religious and moral education (and religious education in Roman Catholic schools). There is mention of the potential for collaboration between these two subjects, though there is little detail on the practical implications of initiating interdisciplinary learning. The document Building the Curriculum 1 The contribution of the curriculum areas (2006) describes some of the potential areas for interdisciplinary learning: the section on religious and moral education states that ‘important connections’ can be made between themes in religious and moral education and other subjects such as history, science and the arts (our italics). The section on religious education in Roman Catholic schools contains no explicit reference to cross-curricular links with science per se but states that learning in religious education is fundamentally interlinked with learning throughout and across the curriculum (our italics). The section on science comments on promoting links with other subjects 37 including religious and moral education. The Principles and practice document for religious and moral education states: Social studies and science offer opportunities to relate religious and moral education to global contexts and to raise contemporary moral and ethical issues (Education Scotland, 2014c). The Principles and practice document for religious education in Roman Catholic schools provides a more general statement about ‘meaningful links’ with other parts of the curriculum (Education Scotland, 2014d). The Principles and practice document for sciences encourages links and interdisciplinary work with other curriculum areas but makes no explicit reference to religious and moral education (Education Scotland, 2014e). The research project, Searching for Meaning, adopted the positive model of potential integration between science and religion and considered the relationship between science and religious education to be rich in possibilities for interdisciplinary learning in Scottish secondary schools (Harris et al., 2012). The aim of the research project was to gather data on the values, beliefs and attitudes of teachers of science and religious education towards interdisciplinary collaboration and those attitudes held by pupils concerning the potential links between science and religious education. The research sought to address the following questions: Can science and religious education teachers work together on themes in a way which will enhance the pupils’ understanding of science/religion issues? What are the resource and CPD needs of both groups and can we establish an effective model for interdisciplinary working? The research consisted of two phases: quantitative and qualitative. SEARCHING FOR MEANING PHASE ONE: QUANTITATIVE SURVEY A self-completion questionnaire was sent by mail to a large sample of science and religious education teachers in all secondary schools (124) in eight local authorities (out of a total of 32 local authorities) in Scotland in summer 2011 (Scottish Government, 2013). In total 89 questionnaires were returned (Simmons, 2008). The survey sought relevant background details and information in two major areas: (1) current practice and (2) potential for collaboration. In terms of (1) current practice, the survey clarified: the extent of any current collaborative work between science and religious education teachers; the confidence of the science and religious education teachers to teach their own subject and their confidence to teach aspects of the other subject; their understanding of pupil views on the relationship between religious and scientific perspectives. The questionnaire provided very little evidence of any formal collaboration or co-teaching between teachers of science and religious education in the sample (there was little evidence of co-teaching between any disciplines). There is evidence that both science and religious education teachers were very confident in teaching their own subject area, but lacked confidence if teaching a topic that was substantially and explicitly focused on the other subject area. A high percentage of science and religious education teachers stated that most 38 pupils think that scientific and religious views are completely unrelated or offer conflicting perspectives. Pupils who study at advanced levels do, however, perceive links between the two subjects. Similar findings were identified in an earlier study of pupil attitude towards the relationship between science and Christianity in Scottish secondary schools (Fulljames, 1996). In terms of (2) potential for collaboration, the survey clarified: the potential for collaboration (including areas with most and least potential for collaboration); the benefits and potential impact of collaboration; the strategies that could support such collaboration and, importantly, the barriers to effective collaboration. The findings from this section of the questionnaire provide strong evidence of a desire for greater understanding and collaboration between science and religious education teachers. The teachers identified a number of practical conditions required to enable effective collaboration. There would need to be a commitment and support from the school leadership and the existence or creation of a school culture that would be open to changes in vision and operation. A greater understanding and mutual respect between the two subject areas would have to be developed. Significant potential barriers to effective collaboration were identified as: appropriate timetabling of common or shared themes in the two subjects that allows collaboration; finding space and time for joint planning and preparation; allocation of extra resources and workload issues (especially increase in workload). SEARCHING FOR MEANING PHASE TWO: QUALITATIVE WORK In the second phase of the research four schools were selected as case study schools. In all of the case study schools, science and religious education teachers undertook or attempted to undertake a joint study of stem cell research within the school in second year (aged 12-13) and sixth year (aged 17-18): exploring the scientific and the ethical implications of this research. Professional resources were produced by the Searching for Meaning project for the CPD sessions to help facilitate the collaboration. These schools were a mix of denominational and non-denominational and were located in different parts of the country. It is useful to categorize them as group A and group B. Group A refers to two schools that engaged in successful collaboration between science and religious education teachers and fully participated in the research. Group B refers to two schools that encountered a number of serious barriers to effective collaboration and participated in the research in a very limited way. In group A, school 1 (A1) is a non-denominational school in the west of Scotland. The school had over 1000 pupils and 86 teachers. Two teachers were interviewed: a teacher of religious education, a teacher of biology and two focus groups were conducted with S2/3 pupils. The second school (A2) is a denominational school in the east of Scotland. The school has over 750 pupils and 64 teachers. A teacher of religious education and a teacher of biology were interviewed and a focus group was conducted with S2/3 pupils. In group B, school 1 (B1) is a nondenominational school in the borders. One teacher of religious education was interviewed. The school has over 1000 pupils and 100 teachers. The second school (B2) is a non-denominational school in the north of Scotland. The school had 1444 pupils and 108 teachers. One teacher of science was interviewed. We 39 have analyzed the interviews and focus groups using the themes that were generated by the quantitative survey and further sub-themes that emerged from the qualitative work. As it would be very difficult to present a thematic comparison of schools A and B, the findings will be presented consecutively. FINDINGS: SCHOOLS A1 AND A2 The findings will be presented under three headings: the benefits and potential impact of collaboration; the factors and strategies that could support such collaboration and the barriers to effective collaboration. The benefits and potential impact of collaboration Schools A1 and A2 reported a number of important benefits from the collaboration. We have categorized these as: impact on teachers; expansion of cross-curricular links and sharing success with wider communities and impact on pupils and parents. The impact on biology and religious education teachers was quite marked. The biology teachers in schools A1 and A2 were both very enthusiastic about the collaboration and commented that this had significantly increased their understanding of the contemporary scope of religious education: I was really quite amazed at the fact there was so much linkage between religious and moral education and biology in particular and I felt quite ignorant in some sense because I didn’t realize obviously what the course of religious and moral education contained, things such as pollution and ethical issues such as stem cell…(biology teacher, A1). Prior to the collaboration, the biology teacher in school A2 appeared to base her understanding of contemporary religious education on her own experience as a school pupil: I had a meeting with (the religious education teacher) and she took me through nd some of the lessons that they did in 2 year with the kids and how they teach it from a religious education point of view and I hadn’t encountered that before in my life. When I did religious education we did the bible… and you didn’t discuss feelings or debates or moral issues, no discussion about that. It was very different for me and it was good to see that (biology teacher, A2). Similarly, the religious education teacher in A2 appreciated deepening her understanding and updating her knowledge of scientific issues. This teacher stated that this influenced the way she approached the teaching of the topic in religious education. You have to actually know the scientific views on that as well, so for us we became far more knowledgeable about the topic as well and you have to be up-to-date on all the advances and anything new going on, so for us that was really good as well, so I think it was a win-win situation (religious education teacher, A2). One of the interesting outcomes of the research was that it led to further cross-curricular links within the schools and sharing beyond the schools. In school A1 the collaboration was extended to home economics and teaching about foods that are used at religious festivals. The home economics teacher was enthusiastic and saw this as a ‘fantastic opportunity’. The religious education 40 teacher did caution that extending to other curricular areas should not be forced but should evolve naturally and in a way that makes sense to children (and to the staff). I want it to be very natural and at the moment it is very natural…and the children are making sense of it between science and religion which I think is important because when you do interdisciplinary stuff they don’t often make the connection (religious education teacher, A1). Both schools A1 and A2 had shared their experiences and the resources with schools across their cluster or local authority. Teachers in both schools commented on the impact of the collaboration on the pupils. Teachers in A1 stated that they could discern an improvement in the critical debating skills of the pupils in science and teachers in A2 stated that it had had an impact on critical skills which could be transferable to other subjects and other contexts and helped develop decision making skills: It brought in their own decision-making processes and how to make those decisions and how to make informed decisions which is something that quite a lot of them at that age haven’t really encountered before… (biology teacher, A2). Pupils in both schools stated that the interdisciplinary approach had enhanced their learning of the topic. The pupils in the focus group in schools A1 and A2 stated that it had helped them to understand the issues, other points of view and the ethics and values of other pupils – which challenged their views: We were working in groups like we had to work together. It wasn’t just our opinion, we had to take into consideration all the others’ opinions (pupil, A1). In some cases, the pupils even changed their views as a result of the discussions: I wouldn’t say it was wrong, but my opinion completely changed (pupil, A1). Some pupils in school A2 had discussed the scientific and ethical aspects of stem cell research with their parents at home and the school had received positive feedback from the parents. The factors and strategies that could support such collaboration We identified a number of factors and strategies that supported collaboration: The resources provided by SSERC; the support of the school leadership, especially the head teacher; communication; effective planning and preparation and the importance of rapport between the science and religious education teachers. Both schools praised the quality of the ready-made SSERC SfM resources and teachers in A2 described them as ‘superb, absolutely brilliant’. Both schools commented on the importance of the support from the school leadership: the faculty and departmental heads and the key role of the head teacher. The head teacher … she’s been very, very supportive and she was probably the one that got us all together in the first place because she heard about the research and she is marvellous with anything that’s raising the profile and anything that’s benefitting the children (religious education teacher, A1). 41 In school A2, the teachers pointed out that the senior leadership of the school had provided practical assistance in addressing some of the timetable issues and this enabled the religious education and biology classes to work together, though some challenges in timetabling remained. The teachers in school A1 stressed the importance of planning and organization, and that that communication was an important factor in ensuring the success of the collaboration. Several modes of communication were employed, face-to-face and email, and this was enhanced by the close proximity of the classrooms used by the teachers. They also stated that the quality of the communication was key as was a willingness to be open, share ideas and learn from each other. The teachers explained that they shared a good rapport and high quality of interpersonal relationships. The barriers to effective collaboration Despite the success of the collaboration in schools A1 and A2, both schools identified some barriers to effective collaboration and extension of the collaboration. In school A1 the barriers were change of personnel (one of the religious education teachers had taken maternity leave during the collaboration), the pressure of time and trying to ensure that the collaboration cohered with the new curriculum: So trying to find the time to do this, spend the time getting the resources and getting it right I probably would have wanted more time…other difficulties I think it’s identifying how it’s fitting in with Curriculum for Excellence (religious education teacher, A1). Another barrier they identified was that the enthusiasm for collaborative work was not shared by all teachers outside of religious education and science. In school A2, the teachers were also concerned about the time available to them and, although the school leadership had assisted with the timetable, the timetable still proved, at times to be a challenge for the collaboration at S6 level and the focus was almost exclusively on religious education. It’s fitting it in, but then trying to find times where we had a free period at the same time as science …and it’s really, really difficult to get together with them… (religious education teacher, A2). This was exacerbated by the physical distance between the two departments (unlike school A1) and this created a challenge for effective communication: We’re at completely different parts of the school, you know they’re here and we’re sort of way along there and three floors up…so that the hardest bit is actually meeting with each other and saying ‘what do you think about this?’ (religious education teacher, A2). They also discussed the extra pressure on workload caused by the collaboration: The pressures that there are with Curriculum for Excellence right now and the workload is phenomenal and this (SfM) was just a tiny little part of that and it took up a lot of time and just managing getting together, that was hard and I really wanted to do it and I found it hard. So people that were maybe not quite so committed would have found that quite difficult (biology teacher, A2). 42 This last comment revisits the anxieties expressed in school A1 about the perceived lack of enthusiasm discerned in other colleagues. FINDINGS: SCHOOLS B1 AND B2 Staff who attended the CPD from schools B1 and B2 had been enthusiastic about the project and, when approached by the research team, were very willing to become case study schools. The research team contacted the schools to organise visits to conduct interviews and focus groups staff in both schools, similar to those conducted in schools A1 and A2. When the staff were contacted, they reported that the project had stalled. In both instances researchers conducted short telephone interviews with staff members to understand the barriers that had prevented the work from being enacted in the schools. In School B1, the researchers interviewed a teacher of religious education. This teacher reported that the work had stalled at the planning stage as a result of a member of staff associated with the project being absent for a considerable length of time during the academic year. In school B2 the science teacher also reported that they had begun the process of developing joint religious education / science working but that other demands on staff time and a lack of leadership support to prioritize the work had meant that the project had not progressed far beyond the planning stage. In both schools it was clear that staff were still enthusiastic about the work. They recognised the benefits of the religious education and science teachers working together in interdisciplinary work for their own professional development and the education of pupils. In both schools staff suggested that the work would be revisited at some point time in the future and they would look for some opportunity to develop it more fully. However, it was also clear from the informants in both schools that there were a number of serious barriers to initiating interdisciplinary learning. The informants in both schools were sceptical that they would secure senior management support for the collaborative work. They were anxious that the interdisciplinary work would be identified as a low priority and, without this support, they would struggle to progress the work. Enthusiastic staff may be a necessary prerequisite for the work to develop but without leadership support the staff would struggle to balance the interdisciplinary work with the competing demands on their time. DISCUSSION The discussion will focus on the following key themes that were identified in the policy and theoretical context: (1) the support from the school leadership; (2) teachers acquiring relevant knowledge and (3) the importance of team-work, dialogue and careful joint planning; the need to provide time and support for teachers, including appropriate CPD and adequate resources. The practical implications of support from leadership for interdisciplinary learning in schools receive little attention in the CfE documentation. There are some comments that teachers should have enough time, opportunity and support to develop activities (Interdisciplinary Learning: Some Guidance Points) and time and support are reiterated in Interdisciplinary Learning (2010) and the guidance on the Education Scotland website. It could be argued that the support from the 43 school leadership is presumed in the CfE documentation - in the context of the presumed support of school leadership teams for the government initiative, CfE (Bogotch et al, 2010). In our research, the support of school leadership appears to be essential for the initiation of interdisciplinary learning. The leadership in the schools in group A demonstrates openness to change and a willingness to respond to new initiatives (Begley, 2010). They helped to create a ‘collaborative culture’ and shape the organizational structures required to sustain this culture (Leithwood, 2010; Fullan, 2013). In school A1 the leadership provided enthusiasm and impetus for the interdisciplinary work and supported the work and appeared to share ‘ownership’ of the work. The leadership effectively modelled support for interdisciplinary learning in the school (Southworth, 2005). In school A2 the senior leaders made decisions to address timetable challenges to ensure that the work could commence (O’Brien et al., 2008). In schools B1 and B2 the joint work had stalled for a number of reasons and the teachers voiced concerns that one of the major barriers in reviving the initiative would be a lack of support from senior leadership in leading and modelling the challenging but necessary change in culture (Reeves, 2009). The importance of teachers acquiring the relevant knowledge to engage in interdisciplinary learning and teaching was emphasized in the research literature (Gardener and Boix-Mansill, 1999, Turner-Bisset, 2001), rather than in the CfE documentation. The necessity of acquiring this knowledge was confirmed in our research. Both science and religious education teachers in schools A1 and A2 commented that they had to learn more about the content of the other subject before initiating interdisciplinary learning. Their comments indicate a move from pre-disciplinary knowledge or, in the case of biology teacher A2, outdated knowledge to a greater knowledge and updated understanding that challenged stereotypes, preconceived perceptions and hierarchical conceptions of the superiority of science over religious education (Moran, 2002; Harris et al., 2012) This also ensured a greater appreciation of the academic validity of the other subject. An interesting development was that the religious education staff in school A1 had the confidence and impetus to further expand interdisciplinary learning and teaching (with home economics). The discussion of teamwork in the CfE documentation is almost exclusively located in the preparatory document, Interdisciplinary Learning: Some Guidance Points. There is one mention of teamwork in CfE Briefing 4 Interdisciplinary Learning. Teamwork is however essential in the secondary school if interdisciplinary learning and teaching is to be implemented. The teachers in school A1 stated that the very good relationship between the two sets of teachers and close physical proximity enabled them to communicate and dialogue regularly, plan and organize as a team. This team teaching enabled the pupils and teachers to examine the topics from multiple perspectives and moved them from a ‘dualistic’ approach to disciplinarity (Plank, 2011). The SfM resources proved to be invaluable in the development of interdisciplinary learning and teaching and contributed to the enthusiasm of the teachers for interdisciplinary learning and teaching at the CPD events. The SfM project was also able to finance the professional production of resources created in school A1. The production of these innovative and creative resources represented a 44 financial investment that would have proved almost impossible for the school in normal circumstances (Harvie, 2012). CONCLUDING REMARKS This paper has identified and examined the practical requirements that enable effective interdisciplinary learning and teaching between science and religious education in Scottish secondary schools: support from school leadership; teacher commitment and enthusiasm; teachers acquiring relevant knowledge of other disciplines; team-work, dialogue and careful joint planning; the need to provide time and support for teachers, including appropriate CPD and adequate resources. The paper has also identified the potential barriers to this effective interdisciplinary learning and teaching: lack of leadership support; pressures of time and challenges of timetabling; change or absence of personnel (maternity leave or illness); lack of enthusiasm in other staff and lack of physical proximity. 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