Dave Lonich: Morning, we are here on a mild February day and we the pleasure of talking to retired
colonel Larry Papini, welcome you here today.
Larry Papini: It’s a pleasure to be here, thank you.
Dave Lonich: It is a pleasure. We’re going to do something a little bit different with you than I have
done with some of the other veterans that I have interviewed. You have a unique perspective in that
your career has covered three decades and so many transitions in the military, so we are going to go in
two directions, what I like to say a factual direction, where we will talk just about you and your life and
what you experienced in the military, then I am going to ask you since you are no longer in uniform to
step out of that perspective and talk conceptually about some of the changes. Does that sound like a
way to go?
Larry Papini: I am looking forward to it.
Dave Lonich: I think it’s great. Let’s start at the beginning then, where were you born? Tell me a little
bit about your early childhood.
1:23.2
LP: Well, I grew up in Roscoe, Pennsylvania
DL: Far away.
LP: Far away, far away, I attended California School District, California high school. I grew up in a loving
family. My parents were young children during World War II, and then often talked about what it was
like living during WWII. Both my parents love their country, and they instilled that in myself and my
siblings.
DL: Now, your parents were the children of immigrants?
LP: My father was the son of immigrants.
DL: We find that so very often, of the patriotism, and the succeeding generation.
LP: We do, we do, we see that today in our military also.
DL: Absolutely, especially in this area (unaudible). So you grew up in Roscoe, and you went to the local
schools, what did you do, what kind of activities were you in when you were in high school.
LP: When I was in high school I enjoyed sports.
DL: Did you?
LP: I played football, but my primary sport was baseball.
DL Ok, the jump is of course, what leads you to the military, what did, makes you, does anything in your
formative years give you this impetus to want to become a career soldier, or was this an evolutionary
thing?
2:43.7
LP: Well, not it wasn’t evolutionary, (inaudible), grew up in Roscoe, a town of one thousand people,
along the Monongahela River, I was 9 years old, I was 8 years old, not quite 9, and a local Marine in 1966
was killed in Vietnam. I had a brother older than I and a brother younger and they asked me to be one
of the alter boys for the funeral . And in the 8 year old eyes, the day in July of 1966, 8 year old eyes said
there were 3,000 people there, in mature eyes there were at least 1,000 people in the church and
outside the church, the Marine guard was there, they did the 21 gun salute and it made a lasting
impression me.
DL: So you started, it puts that seed in the ground.
LP: It did, I believe it started there, it started at home, but that had an impact on me.
DL: Anybody in your family in the military?
LP: Let’s see, both my uncles, I had uncles who were drafted.
DL: OK
LP: Did their one year, two years.
DL: Yea
LP: I am the oldest of 5 siblings; I served in the Army for 30 years.
DL: Right
LP: My brother who is a year younger than me served 23 years in the Army, and my baby sister who is 6
years younger than me, she served 20 years as a nurse in the air force.
DL: That certainly a significant contribution to their country
LP: My, my, another sister she is married to a former F-14 pilot.
4:21.6
DL: Your parents must be very proud.
LP: They are, they are proud of all their children.
DL: And they should be, and they should be…so you are in high school, you, you, this event is a very
young man, very young boy has had a great impact on you with a military pageantry and the tribute to
this fallen soldier, so in your senior year, what makes you decide out of all the colleges in the county
that you want to go to.
LP: I applied to the air force academy, I, you know, the naval academy, merchant marine, I received a
nomination from the merchant marine academy, but I didn’t want to do it, ironically from Congressman
Morgan whom I believed (audio has lots of static)
5:09
LP: Ironically I did not apply to the United States military academy, I applied to the Citadel in Charleston
SC, I was accepted there and that’s where I decided to go.
DL: Now, from what I understand about the Citadel, unlike some of the traditional military academies,
there was no actual obligation, you lived a military lifestyle and you go through training, but you still
have the option of not going into the military afterwards, is that correct.
LP: ROTC is mandatory for all cadets, approximately one half at the time decided to go into the service
through ROTC.
DL: So you lived the life of a cadet.
LP: I was a cadet for 4 long years. [laughing]
DL: Well, we have to go with that, not the most pleasant situation at the bottom of the rung there.
LP: Well, the first year was very difficult.
DL: Yeah
LP: There was a maturity factor, I was 17 when I went away to college, I had never been south of
Washington, DC, and it was a unique experience, I have friends that I stay weekly contact with, we just
had our 30 year reunion, unfortunately […….], but it was a great experience.
DL: In ROTC did you have the option of going into ROTC in any branch.
LP: You could go, you could take the Navel ROTC, you could take the Air Force ROTC or you could take
the Army.
DL: And you took the Army.
LP: No I didn’t I took the Navy.
DL: Oh, ok.
LP: I took the Navy because I wanted to be a Marine back then.
6:43.9
DL: That’s where I was going, how did you end up with this Marine Corp
LP: Well, in marine corp ROTC you go to Quantico, VA between your junior and senior year. I went to
Quantico, VA the beginning of my, between my junior and senior year and they gave us physicals, and
they said you have a bad knee, you can’t be a marine, I was devastated, and I called home crying, 20
years old crying, I can’t be a marine. Well, my mother, god bless her, I love her to this day, she called
Congressman Morgan, and I believe Senator Heinz, saying why can’t my son be in the marines. The next
day I was marched by a marine second lieutenant, first lieutenant, captain, major, and lieutenant colonel
to go see the colonel. And they said, cadet, I think they said, do you want to be a marine, I remember
saying, sir, yes sir, I want to be a marine, well they got me another physical, and they brought in another
orthopedic surgeon, and they said I’m sorry, can’t be a marine. So went back to Roscoe and then college
started in August, and my first day back to the Citadel I was a senior, a captain in the ROTC department,
Army. So Larry, you want to be a soldier, I said yes sir I do, he said sign here, here I am.
DL: Kinda providential there, that’s strange how little things like that work out.
LP: It is, it is.
DL: So now you go into the service, and that would have been you graduated in 78 then.
LP: 1978, I did.
DL: You go into the service and you have to pick a branch of the service now, I’ve seen your very formal
pictures, and I think from the insignia on your uniform you went into the artillery.
LP: I did, I was defense artillery, but the process at the time was you made your, you made three
choices of what branch of the army you want to be in, I believe I put infantry, transportation, and air
defense artillery. I am air defense artillery, I said ok.
DL: You graduated as a second lieutenant, now if we can, and it’s really hard to try and compress 30
years of all your experiences into whatever time we have. Let’s walk through this career now, we know
an awful lot more about you, those historians that are going to be looking at this in the years in the
future now know an awful lot about motivations and what would have motivated young men in the Mon
Valley back in the late 70’s, so let’s go through and let’s see how this comes through fruition, how does
your career move along, what is your first assignment.
9:27.4
LP: My first assignment, I was assigned ultimately to Italy, but the army has a process where they held
the officer basic course, the officer basic course for air defense artillery is at Fortless, Texas, which is in
El Paso. They teach how to be a platoon leader, in other words how to care for 30 men or more, and
that’s basically a 5 ½ month course. My following assignment was to Italy and the position required a tie
in language, the army sent me to the defense language institute in Monterey, CA to study Italian for 6
months.
DL: Did you have any, did you have a fundamental knowledge of how to speak Italian.
LP: No I didn’t, I knew a few words. When people immigrated to the United States, they wanted to
become Americans, and their children speaking English.
DL: Speak English
LP: Which is regrettable, today in retrospect, it truly is regrettable.
DL: Oh sure, I remember that with my grandmother and grandfather. Speaking in, and not catching any
of it, and like you said it is regrettable now looking back. So you went and you went to, I want to go
back, because you have to forgive me when I do these things, sometimes. You said men and women, at
that time, were there women at the Citadel. Was the Citadel co-ed?
LP: At the Citadel, no.
DL: Ok
LP: The Citadel was strictly an all male institution.
DL: Were more women into the military though, when you got in.
LP: There were women, of course there were women.
DL: Absolutely.
LP: Absolutely.
DL: Always, but I meant what was beginning to see more at that particular point. That’s for whenever
we get a little later on that’s the unique perspective, you come in here at almost a transitional time
don’t you in the late 70’s, there’s [both talking]
LP: That’s correct, more women are enlisting.
DL: Sure
LP: There are women officers and those you’ll see I think at Westpoint, I can’t remember the year
women were admitted to Westpoint , I want to say 1976, I could be off a couple of years, but I think I am
pretty close.
DL: I am not sure exactly either, but I know it was the late 70’s.
11:34.5
LP: But those women today are our general officers.
DL: You said another key word, enlisting, my age and a little bit older, often you didn’t have the
prerogative, it was the draft, and so the draft was ended by the time you went into the service.
LP: I think the draft was ended in 1973.
DL: Yeah, ’73, ‘75
LP: We were out of Vietnam in ’75.
DL: Right, yes.
LP: We became the all volunteer force.
DL: Yes, so there’s another transition.
LP: There’s another transition.
DL: We will talk about later on, and not to mention the global perspective. Ok, but let’s go back to
personal , Lt. Papini is now learning how to command a platoon.
LP: That’s correct.
DL: We’re learning how to speak Italian, and what else are you doing?
LP: I just got married. [laughing]
DL: You needed even more stress in your life? [laughing]
LP: The first assignment after the wedding which
DL: We’re not slipping by that just got married, did you, is it someone you met at the service, is it
someone that
12:40.2
LP: No, it was my high school sweetheart.
DL: Oh, ok, that’s really neat, so she’s from back here too.
LP: Marsha Fayish, Marsha Fayish Papini, grew up on Greene Street.
DL: This is pretty neat, come full circle.
LP: Yes it is.
DL: All the way around the world, we tell people that you know, there is nothing wrong with coming
back home, it’s great.
LP: Never say never
DL: Now you’re married, a young officer, and you’re in Texas, where do we go from there.
LP: We go to language school in Monterey, California
DL: Yes
LP: As I said earlier, and then we go to Northern Italy.
DL: Ok, and what are you doing there?
LP: I was a security officer, platoon leader on a Nike-Hercules Missile site.
DL: And this is still right in the midst of the cold war.
LP: it is, very much so, very much so.
DL: So you are sitting in Italy with the missiles pointed at…
LP: On an Italian Air Force Base.
DL: Yeah, pointing at the Soviet Union or guarding against the Soviet.
LP: I think we were in a defensive posture.
DL: Good enough, probably, that sounds good, and that’s what historians will pick up on, our defensive
posture. Ok, so that assignment, how’s that play out, anything like most memorable about that, that
jumps into your mind?
13:56.8
LP: It was a wonderful 4 years I spent in Northern Italy, and my wife would tell you the same,
[talking…can’t make it out], my grandfather was born in Italy, on one of my few leaves at the time, I got
to go to outside of Florence and see the house, if you call it a house that he was born in, and to meet a
great uncle who immigrated back, immigrated to the United States, worked in the coal mines, married
my grandfathers sister, and said you know what, life was better back on the farm in Italy, I’m going back
there.
DL: You know that is another perspective that we don’t often hear about a lot.
LP: It wasn’t easy for these immigrants; mean they worked in coal mines.
DL: Yeah.
LP: Minimal education, they worked hard, there weren’t unions, a lot of deaths.
DL: Dangerous job.
LP: Very dangerous, it remains dangerous today.
DL: Yeah, yeah.
LP: My wife’s father was a coal miner also.
DL: Right in this area?
LP: California, but I think he worked in Bobtown.
DL: Yeah, my uncle worked in the Bobtown mine too. Next assignment where from Italy.
LP: From Italy, Marsha and I went to Fortless Texas, it was called the Air Defense Advanced Course,
where they teach you how to be a captain and how to command a battery.
DL: You started to move up the ranks.[talking together]
LP: I am, I am a captain.
DL: By that time, you’ve decided this is going to be a career.
LP: Yeah, this is fun, I had a great four (4) years in Italy, you know, life is good, life is good. And we
spent another 5 ½ or 6 months in Fortless, and my personnel officer is Washington DC called me and
said Larry, how would you like to go to Hawaii, I said wow, I always wanted to go to Hawaii, and Marsha
and I said sure, we no children at the time, it was, not many people can say their first assignment was in
Italy, and their second assignment was in Hawaii. [both talking]
DL: My goodness, that was some great recruiting. Yeah right.
LP: We spent a little more than 3 years in Hawaii, I was with the 25th Infantry Division, my battalion was
the first battalion, 62nd Air Defense Artillery, at the time we had Chaparral and Vulcan air defense
weapons.
DL: What was that?
LP: Chaparral was a…was, it’s not in use in the world anymore, it was four (4) missiles on a platform
DL: Ok
LP: That fired at enemy aircraft.
DL: Ok
LP: The Vulcan was a 20mm gun system that shot very quickly to shoot down enemy airplanes, that
could be used in a ground war also.
DL: Alright
LP: And while I was there I commanded the headquarters, and the headquarters battery, which was all
the staff and radar unit, and following that I commanded a Chaparral battalion, and then I was the
battalion administration officer or S1, the army’s great, you know I was there for a little more than 3
years and I had 3 great jobs.
DL: And we’ re moving up through to the ranks.
16:56.4
LP: And we’re moving up.
DL: And that’s good, so keep going.
LP: While I was in Hawaii, of course my wife and I got to visit all the islands, and I deployed to Korea for
the experience, I was there for 30 days, during two (2) different, they always did it in the winter, but I
was fortunate I think the two (2) winters I went were the mildest winters in Korean history, so that was
good, because I don’t like the cold. So I am almost ready to make Major and my friend, well not friend,
the personnel officer from Washington, DC called and says Larry we would like you to do ROTC, and I say
I really don’t want to do ROTC, and I said I am looking for something different, he says well we have an
assignment available for someone as a personnel officer in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, so I called my wife and
said how would you like to go to Saudi Arabia? And then I called her parents, and said do you mind if I
take your daughter to Saudi Arabia, and they were I mean, wonderful people, my in-laws and they said
she’s your wife and you have to live your life. So, we came back to Roscoe, California for twenty (20)
days of vacation and we moved to Saudi Arabia, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
DL: You were in the Middle East then…
LP: I was in the Middle East before, life was a little different back in 1988.
DL: I was just going to say…
LP: Little different in 1988, it really was.
DL: Yeah, how did find your experience over there?
LP: I found it wonderful, we had a rule, my wife and I, that we would get out of the [Kingdom], every 90
days. We carried diplomatic passports, which enabled us to do things that just any ex-[can’t make out]
so we traveled around the kingdom, we go to visit, Bahrain, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, got to go
to China, vacation in Hong Kong, Thailand, Bali, and my brother ironically was stationed in Frankfurt,
Germany, and we spent our Christmas’s with he and his family in Frankfurt.
19:12.5
DL: Like I said, so far you are just the poster boy for recruiting, how great the army life can be, this is
good.
LP: I have told people this, I consider myself a patriot, I consider myself a good American.
DL: Absolutely.
LP: And I consider myself honest. I can honestly say that I look forward to going to work every day for
30 years.
DL: Well, are any other careers, many people cannot say that, in fact a large percentage of people
cannot say that, so that’s a blessing.
LP: Even though you knew it was not going to be a good day, for whatever reason, that was my job.
DL: Yeah.
LP: I never had a bad boss, I never had a bad boss. I have had peers that have said well I don’t think our
boss is a good boss, I disagreed with them, we are all different.
DL: Absolutely. And I wonder about your men, would they have said about you, that you were a good
boss, well….yes they would.
DL: I think so.
LP: Think they would.
DL: I think they would.
LP: I know they would. They have.
DL: That’s great, that’s great, because how did you treat your men underneath you, what was your
basic philosophy.
LP: My basic philosophy was we are all adults, we’re here for a mission and I call it, I work under the big
boy theory, we are going to do the right thing all the time.
DL: Everybody.
LP: Everybody, not to say that didn’t always happen, very seldom, but not eutopia. That’s what I miss
today, I miss taking care of soldiers.
DL: I could imagine, I know what’s its like, not being in a classroom every day. You the same thing. Did
you have a good repoire with your men, how did you, how, you know through the ranks, you know, can
you have a repoire?
21:09.3
LP: Yes you can. Whether it’s a 30 man platoon, or a hundred person company or battery, or 400
person battalion, that’s important, I have a different personality, people don’t work for me, I work with
people and people work with me.
DL: Yeah.
LP: And that’s one of, that’s part of my leadership style.
DL: Ok
LP: I knew everyone’s name, their spouse, if they had children, I just thought that was important, that
you want to say how is your wife, how is your family, how are your children doing. In the north here we
depend on each other, because we are always away from home, there’s the old adage, home is where
the army sends you, but the army truly is a tight knit organization.
DL: Having said that, and I totally agree, not all officers share that philosophy.
LP: No, but our army is well led.
DL: Yeah.
LP: People have different leadership styles, not to say my leadership style is better than someone else’s
because they work differently, it’s my personality too.
DL: That’s alright.
LP: I consider myself a team builder, and team building is very important.
DL: Oh, especially in the military.
LP: Of course.
DL: Ok, so now you have been in Saudi Arabia, did you make major?
LP: I was promoted to major.
DL: In Saudi Arabia.
LP: In Saudi Arabia. The 5th of July in 1990.
DL: Oh, wow, 1990, that’s going to be a critical year.
LP: It is.
DL: Yeah, and so you are sitting right there in the middle, of the Middle East, when we are about to get
involved in some different kind of situations.
LP: Yeah, The Iraqi invasion of Kuwait was 30 days later.
DL: Right, yeah, and did you stay there?
LP: No, we moved, I want to say the 8th or 9th of July.
DL: Oh wow.
LP: Yes, the 8th or 9th of July, and I had to go to a school, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas because I was
selected to go to the Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, however
we have programs with other nations throughout the world, and because I spoke Italian I was selected
to go to the Army Command and General Staff College, they needed an officer to go to the Italian army
work college in Italy, and…
DL: I saw that on your resume.
LP: And, so in lieu of going to the army command and general staff at Fort Leavenworth Kansas, I was
sent to the Italian army work college in Tvittabh, Italy, which is about 60km northwest of Italy.
DL: How long were you there?
LP: I studied there a year.
DL: Did your wife go with you?
LP: My wife went with me.
DL: Now I mean, this is interesting to that she’s been with you almost every step of the way except for
maybe a little bit of time here and there that you have been, you don’t get separated for long periods of
time.
24:01.5
LP: Later on in the career [had to make out, talking at same time]
DL: I know, I mean that’s coming. Yeah, we’re getting there, I mean at this stage in your career and
your life you guys are able to travel.
LP: We get to travel together.
DL: That’s pretty neat.
LP: We have some, we have beautiful furniture from all over the world.
DL: Yeah.
LP: And we like nice things, and we are able to acquire these things.
DL: So you’re in Italy, studying in Italy, when desert shield, and then desert storm begins?
LP: Well, I was, I was back on my parents porch when I got a phone call from the army personnel
command saying Larry before you go to Italy, you know we don’t know what’s going to happen, so I was
on hold for about a month, and I just came from Saudi Arabia, therefore…
DL: Yeah.
LP: Our army is big, much larger than it is now, but the army puts so much effort, money, manpower
into formal education, I.., I’ll digress, I spent 6 months in Fort Bliss as a Lieutenant learning to be a
Lieutenant, 6 months at Fort Bliss as a Captain, learning how to be a Captain, just spent a year in Italy
learning how to be a field grade officer, with a foreign force and NATO outline, and the army spends, we
consider education just as important as leadership.
DL: So, you don’t participate in any direct way in the first call for
LP: No, not Iran, not Iraq, they said you know, education, we all can be replaced.
DL: Yeah.
LP: They said continue with the schooling,
DL: Ok
LP: So we flew to Italy and spent a year there.
DL: That’s great.
25:48.3
LP: I have a unique story though, we still have friends in Riyadh, at the time, and ironically a very good
friend of ours colonel retired Marty Stanton, do some research on Marty Stanton, Marty was single at
the time, and of course, there was Marsha and I in Saudi Arabia, so we always had Marty over for dinner
or something, well Marty decided to take a trip to Kuwait to see what is was like, and he was in a hotel
when the invasion started.
DL: Oh my.
LP: And he was a guest of Saddam for three months.
DL: Oh
LP: He was a guest, close to three months.
DL: A guest.
LP: A guest, he was released in December. Still
DL: Absolutely amazing.
LP: You were worried about it, you were worried about, you don’t want to say it was military, you don’t
know what Marty did, whether he said he was military or not.
DL: But everything was ok.
LP: Everything was ok.
DL: Stories he must tell.
LP: Oh, he has great stories, he writes books too, look up Marty Stanton, he has written a few books.
DL: Ok, we’ll have to check this out.
LP: And, as I said earlier, we have still very good friends in Riyadh. We were a very small organization,
our job was to train the Saudi Arabian national guard modernization program. And the national guard in
Saudi Arabia basically they are all around Riyadh, its commanded by Crown Prince Abdullah at the time,
who’s now the King of Saudi Arabia. And, it was a unique experience living in the Arab world, but we
truly loved it, we were very fortunate, ironically in December before the ground wars started, we had
friends in Riyadh who wanted to come to Italy for 2 weeks, so the husband and wife they come up to
Italy for 2 weeks and we spend Christmas with them and they go back to Riyadh. And we stay in touch
with them today, they were an army civilian couple. We are getting close to the ground war, [cannot
make out]…..and the scuds have started.
DL: Oh yeah
LP: So we call them on the phone one day and I’m talking to Randy and Marsha is talking to Cecilia, and
we have CNN on in Italy, I hear sirens on the phone in the background, it’s my friend saying Larry, I gotta
hang up we are under scud attack
DL: Oh geez,
LP: You know, and I watched this scud on TV, then two blocks behind the compound …..
DL: Holy mackerel.
LP: They were ok.
DL: Yeah
LP: That’s when I first…….[cannot make out what saying]
DL: Well like most of us did with technology like that coming into our living rooms, sometimes I wonder
LP: I wanted to be there
DL: Oh yeah, I am sure you did, especially since you had those friends there, well you will get your
chance from what I read and research that I have done. So after a year there at the Italian war college.
LP: We moved to Fort Campbell, Kentucky where I served in the 101st air borne division, air assault
[……], the greatest division in the united states army.
DL: How the heck did that happen, I was going to ask you because once again looking at your formal
picture in uniform I saw the Air Borne.
LP: Where did you see these pictures.
DL: It is my job to do these things, especially like I said with the very sparse biography you gave me
ahead of time, so I said, I am not going into this interview with this amount of limited knowledge about
this man. Anyway so I saw the Air Borne.
LP: It is not Air Borne, it’s Air Assualt
DL: That’s what I thought, ok I’m not that, not as an expert as the military as I might have been. Ok,
how did you, what made you make leap.
LP: I am a major now, and you have to reach certain goals during your career.
DL: Yeah.
LP: You know, I commanded three batteries as a captain, and did well, as a major you become
operations officers and executive officers of battalions.
DL: Ok
LP: Or brigades, there was an air defense battalion with the 101st air borne division air assault coula, the
greatest division in the United States army. And I was the division air defense officer for about 9
months, and then I became a battalion espry or operations officer and in a 500 person batallation, and
later I became the executive officer.
DL: That is surely moving up.
LP: It was fun, but you know what I was only there for two years, and I blinked and the two years was
gone because we were always going somewhere to training.
DL: Yeah.
LP: But that’s what you do…you train.
DL: That’s another thing that we want to talk about a little later on here about the more rapid
deployment of the army with units like the airborne units, and things like that, so, now I have lost track
of what year this would be, where about ’92, ’93 here?
LP: Where am I, I am at Fort Campbell, I was there from 1991 – 1993.
DL: Yeah, that’s what I thought, [cannot make out], and then what, we’re now into a different
administration and a whole lot of things are going on in the country.
LP: You know I can honestly say, I believe I came in under President Carter as a lieutenant.
DL: Well, that we know.
LP: Then eight years under Reagan, and then four years under you know number 41, first President
Bush, I don’t feel that any administration had an adverse impact on what I did in the Army.
DL: That’s right, that’s great. I have read things contrary to that, and other ways too. What’s the next
assignment after.
LP: Fort Campbell, then we moved, the army, let’s see, you know an army just does not fight a war and
win, the air force just doesn’t fight alone and win, the marines or the navy, we need to fight as a team,
and after some lessons learned in Panama, Grenada, it’s like you need to work together. The Army
needs to be able to talk to the Marines, the Navy needs to be able to talk to the Army, the Air Force, and
there was a [no idea], I can’t remember the congressional, the law that said that officers be trained
together in different services, we called it [……..] at the time. Where I was part of an organization called
joint task force 6, which was a counter drug organization, at Fort Bliss, Texas, it was comprised of
soldiers, sailors, airman and marines. Mostly majors, some lieutenant colonels, couple colonels and it
was commanded by a once army general. And we provided military support to all federal, state and
local drug enforcement agencies, along with southwest border at the time from San Diego to southern
Texas, along the border. Now, haci coma tadas, 1849 losses, soldiers cannot arrest, detain are you
familiar with haci coma? So soldiers didn’t actually apprehend drug deals, the law enforcement did, we
provided intel analysts to law enforcement agencies and we would have looking posts along the border,
along known trafficking routes and then the military would contact the law enforcement agencies and
they would intervene.
33:01.3
DL: Yeah, I’m not going to be able to explore this as much as I want, but again as I said imagining future
historians, obviously there seems, this is, we’re going to shift in the traditional role of the military in this
sense, is this because of the downsizing with the inter, you know branch cooperation is stressed, is this
because of the cold wars done and we don’t have this mana you know mega, mano thick enemy that we
have, we have had great success in you know desert storm in recapturing the taken territories, do you
see any of that having an impact on this? Or was this just….
LP: I have to go, I believe in 1988, or 1989, maybe 1989, President Bush said that you know, we have an
interdict, we have a drug problem.
DL: Oh sure.
LP: All right, [……], and it started on the south west border, it’s expanded much since then, when you
read in the papers today about fences along the US Mexican border.
DL: Yeah
LP: That was you know, it was military engineers were providing training, all right we need a fence along
this part of the border, well you would get military units who would do that, we would give them the
money, the training money to do that, and they are actually training because engineers build.
DL: Absolutely.
LP: Horizontally and vertically.
DL: In the interest of time, it is just so frustrating as a historian as an interviewer you have a limited
amount of time to talk to such a fascinating person, we are going to jump ahead.
LP: Ok
DL: To September 11, and that impact that has on your military career, we are going to focus personally,
what rank are you by then.
LP: I am lieutenant colonel.
35:03
DL: What impact does this have on lieutenant colonel Papini’s career