>> Amy Draves: Thank you for coming. My name is Amy Draves,
and I'm pleased to welcome Rajiv Narang to the Microsoft
Research Visiting Speaker Series.
Rajiv is here to discuss his
book -- I should say well-received book, Orbit-Shifting
Innovation.
"If an idea is to be orbit shifting, it must go beyond the
boundaries of conventional thinking and be among the most
constructive and revolutionary.
The planetary metaphor of
gravity and orbits frames the exploration of hidden forces and
surprising allies to innovation."
He is the founder of the consulting firm Erehwon and is
recognized as India's innovation thought leader.
He has
inspired people and organizations across cultures and across the
world to shift their thought orbits.
>> Rajiv Narang: Grateful for being here. And I am hoping that
over the next hour or so I'll take you into a hyper speed walk
into what does it take to make an orbit shift happen and through
the -- littered with our experiences and insights over the last
20 odd years.
So I was lucky enough to have married a very passionate
profession very early in life and literally have invested the
whole life. And this book is really is nothing but a synthesis
of the learnings. So I'm going to share some of those with you
very quickly, and, of course, I'm sure your questions and
challenges will make it much more innovating.
So for those of you who are curious, I'm sure you have decoded
Erehwon by now. Have some of you decoded it, or are there still
some questions?
I do keep -- this question does come up occasionally.
Erehwon.
Well, sounds German, or to some people it sounds Korean
sometimes. The word won in the end can be very confusing.
But
I'm sure some of you have decoded it. Have you?
You have.
Well, a couple of hands at least.
Well, if you read it backwards, you'll find it gives itself
away. It's really the word nowhere spelled backwards.
And then
when were starting out our journey some 20 years ago, in one
word it spelled out the mission, actually.
When you look at the
world and split it up, you notice nowhere becomes now here?
it's very fascinating. One word speared the mission, nowhere to
now here, impossible to possible, hopelessness to hope.
That's essentially the mission of Erehwon.
And we were lucky
really to have found it right in the beginning.
And so I'm going to share with you what has been our journey.
We work with organizations, obviously.
But our work is not
limited there. We also work with social enterprises and
business and public services, essentially, wherever a leap is
needed in the role of innovation.
Now, the challenge is really how to make it happen.
So I'm
going to share you with the insights that have come to us
through these 20 years of trying to find answers to the
unanswered questions around innovation.
You know, everybody
would love to do it, but very few actually manage it.
But some
is also caught in this not so good viewpoint that only 10
percent of innovations succeed.
You know, to my mind, I would
like to junk that right in the beginning.
When organizations
are in a spray and pray mode, obviously only 10 percent will
succeed. It's fascinating how when you throw a hundred ideas
that something will come true, and maybe even 10 percent is
actually lucky then if it stands that onslaught.
So, really, what we have found that if it is done deliberately
and by design, why 10 percent? 70 percent can succeed. So I
urge you to junk that right at the beginning.
And then let's start exploring what does it take to make it
happen. I'll share with some of you our learnings and insights.
And interestingly enough, all the learnings and insights I share
with you have drawn from these three roles that we play, the
role of a consultant, a facilitator and a coach.
So as a consultant, really the challenge is how do you get an
organization to think and act innovatively.
But as a
facilitator, a huge part of our work has been in facilitating
breakthrough journeys from concept up to in-market success, so
over 250 over these years. So, really, having seen through the
pains of making it happen is really where a lot of our insights
come from and as a coach, coaching leaders and taking their
teams through those leaps.
And it's fascinating that the world of consultancy is also split
up. Like everything is siloed, even that is siloed, our
strategy consultant, organization development consultants and
leadership consultants. And we find in our world all three have
to combine seamlessly, because you never know where the real
innovation is. It could be a strategic blind spot in
organization design, or it could be simply a leadership mindset.
Maybe the fear of one guy is seeming like a strategic issue.
Well, if it isn't, it could very well just be the fear of one
person. And it has to be, therefore, dealt with at the
interpersonal level.
issue at all.
It can't be dealt with as a strategic
And so we work across -- we work in India, Asia Pacific, Europe,
also in the U.S. now. So it is -- it's a very fascinating
cross-mix of countries and cultures.
And we very often say, we
are not the main expert for innovation experts, and magic
happens when innovation expertise combine with domain expertise.
But at all points of time, we work with the organization.
It's
not -- it's never outside of it. So this is a fascinating mix
of sunrise, sunset industries and literally across domains and,
as I mentioned to you, across public services, business and
social enterprises, too.
First reactions to this map?
Quick reactions?
[indiscernible].
>>: If you had -- if you had a piece of paper in front of you,
what would have been your first reaction?
A lot of people are showing it to me, actually.
It's inevitable. We're used to seeing the map in one way.
It fascinating that maps were designed to be information, but
when you seen a map for a long period of time, it becomes a
mindset. There's really one way of looking at the map; there
can't be another. By now, we even have statements built around
it. And over the years, it just happened to get drawn this way,
right?
After all, the world is round.
And we found this map in Australia with this -- with this bold
statement below it, "No apologies are called for in presenting
the map of the south at the top."
After hundreds of years of development, southern lands have no
reason to be under the Northern Hemisphere.
Very classic Aussie way of rebelling against life, right?
Maybe they don't like being called Down Under.
But really, why am I showing this to a work connected with me?
When I saw it for the first time, what this truly represents the
start of an innovation drive or a quest.
There's a positive
lesson as to questioning the world order and not merely staying
with it, as the world orders can be very implicit, almost
invisible sometimes. Some are far our more visible.
And if you look at it across industries, you'll find a very
pattern emerging. One or two market leaders in most sectors
many, many followers, and sometimes there emerges a challenge.
Sometimes.
I have my perspective on challenges.
I'm sure you have yours.
So very quickly what are the names of organizations that come to
your mind? Who would you consider challengers and not
followers?
Thinking outside of our industry and deliberately taking you
outside of our industry?
So who would you consider challengers as organizations and not
followers?
[indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: Okay. Any other names?
>>: [indiscernible].
>>: Rajiv Narang: Who do you consider challengers as
organizations?
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: Please? Please?
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: Any other names come to mind?
Who else?
Across industries, across the world?
>>: It would be [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: As an individual, yes. I'm more asking
organizations right now [indiscernible].
>>: Well.
>> Rajiv Narang: Yes; okay.
Please, organizations. Which organizations would you consider
are not leaders?
Don't tell me you can't think of any.
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: Actually, the original one was
[indiscernible].
That's where the whole model, really, began.
Any others?
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: I take your word for it right now.
Any others?
Is it fascinating that in this room you must know the names of
thousands of organizations that we are not thinking about.
It's
fascinating, isn't it, how quickly history forgets?
And what connects with me very deeply is that challengers create
history. The rest follow it. And so, really, when you think of
who we remember, we remember those who created it at some point
of time or the other.
And I'm just going to quickly share with you the people, some
organizations, that come to my mind and just to expand thinking
across the world. What we also try to do is deliberately work
across sectors, across cultures to see, therefore, what are the
new reference points.
You know, we all know Steve Jobs is a major.
Bill Gates may be
a very sure to you, but this is other innovators.
Any guesses?
Tough one.
This is, also, an innovation which had a global impact.
But in
the world of cataract eye surgery, in the -- you know, in south
of India in a sleepy town called Madurai.
This man took on a
mission to eliminate needless blindness.
Really, what he found
was in large part of rural India when people lose their eyesight
due to cataracts, they actually don't know it's curable. And
what's worse, the person at the edge of the poverty line really
loses his eyesight he could lose his life.
So now his response was not charity but a business model
solution. So the challenge was how do I make my surgeon who's
the most expensive asset, the most productive, classic
productivity question which we're all concerned with all the
time.
He found a breakthrough which made this surgeon 10 times more
productive than the global best at the same quality.
10, 10x.
It's not merely a .1x or a .2. 10 times more productive. And
they are now the global reference point.
It's called Aravind
Eye Care. They're literally mentioned all over the world.
It
is fascinating when we talk about them that we don't have to be
in the Silicone Valley to do great things.
You can really be
everywhere.
The challenge is people somehow start to believe that the place
is the reason for there being rather than them.
Right?
The place is not boring. We are in. That's the tougher
question usually.
And most amazing thing, he started this mission at the age of 58
after retiring from his previous job.
The next 20 years he's
gone and done this. So, really, there's hope for everyone in
this room. Life is not done.
To take you further from India, further into the east, the
mobile revolution which has been a huge part of the emerging
economies, really, the core innovation, the product innovation,
started in the Philippines, the prepaid card with electronic
recharging. They came up with that. And then the business
model innovation came from a company in India and combined with
process. So, really, product, process and business model
innovation together have made this amazing revolution happen.
The prepaid card was a great idea, but it dropped the venues
dramatically. The personal consumer usage rate dropped
dramatically. To make that economically viable, needed a
business model innovation. And the three have combined, and
that's really the heart of it. So what appears to be amazing is
a combination of three innovations.
Have you heard of MPESA? Some of you must have. This happened
in Africa. They converged the mobile phone into a mobile wallet
into a mobile bank account and really banked the millions of
Kenyans who didn't even have a bank, bank account.
The first
bank account was not was a bank but with what was the local
retailer with whom some money was deposited, a mobile account
opened, and then you could pay with an SMS.
Astonishingly,
today they have 70 million subscribers in Africa.
And
fascinating. And, also, the mobile phone which had never even
attempted something like this any of the developed markets, they
did it in Africa first. So the cell phone becomes a
[indiscernible].
Take you even further off into the vast lands of Mongolia where
innovation happens even there.
You know, you can imagine the
vast -- I'm sure you have images of Mongolia -- the vast end of
land, nearest hospital far away, 35 to 40 kilometers for most
people. So access to healthcare is a big challenge.
How do you
make healthcare accessible was the question.
So now the government was struggling with this question.
And
interestingly enough, there are many countries trying to improve
access to health care. What would be the most traditional
solution?
What would be the usual advice given to these people?
What would it be?
What do we need to do?
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: Clinics. So really clinics, doctors. That's
even tougher, hard. Software is usually tougher. I mean,
especially by real people and sending them to rural even more.
So you can imagine what an infrastructure heavy solution that
is. A lot of emerging economies in healthcare infrastructure
today is one-sixth that of a developed nation in terms of the
number of hospitals, nurses, doctors.
Now, however, the fascinating thing is that they reframed the
question itself. But rather than investing in supplying
healthcare, how about reducing the demand on healthcare?
So
invest in wellness.
That's fascinating, isn't it?
And they partnered with Nippon Foundation of Japan to put in
action a traditional Japanese solution.
And what was the
solution?
To put literally a first aid care center in each house.
But we
are all our first doctors, aren't we?
By now, you know, right, if this is the problem, do this.
If
that doesn't work, we go to a doctor.
So that first instinct is
there in all of us.
Now, riding on that instinct they actually put into each house
into some districts a medical kit based on symptoms that if this
is the symptom, this is what you take but coached in this case.
It wasn't instinct any more. It was -- and, also, all the
medication was based on traditional Mongolian medicine, which is
herbal, and not western medicine, which is chemical.
So even if
they took the wrong one, there's no side effect since it is
herbal.
Now, these kits were placed in houses.
The doctors were made in
charge of some of the area. So they would go around, check.
And even more fascinating, the payment, the business model was
post paid, not prepaid. It's like a hotel mini bar. You pay -you pay based upon how much you use. Now, when the doctor went
around based upon how much they had used, they would pay.
The
outcome has been most amazing. In some districts, the number of
people coming to hospitals reduced by as much as 60 percent.
Now, what could be a more glorious outcome than that?
Think about it. This is cost of this solution versus the cost
of healthcare infrastructure. What does it take to create this?
Are we solving the wrong problem?
But that's really what our innovation is about, right, about
questioning the problem in itself and how we are attempting it,
how are we thinking about it. Sometimes the answer may not lie
in modern technology,. It may lie in ancient wisdom. In this
case, it was literally ancient wisdom which came into play.
You know, all these examples, some of those that you shared with
me and that I've shared with you, are what stand out about them
is that literally they made a quantum leap.
It's an orbit shift
as we call it. And, you know, on the other hand, you notice a
lot of organizations that you haven't heard about
traditionalists get stuck in an orbit.
It happens to the best
of us. You know, no matter how good a good team you put
together, it's so easy to get stuck into a formula which we all
know, which is predictable.
It's -- while we all would love to be orbit shifters, but the
reality is most of us get into stuck into maintaining the orbit.
And the biggest challenge I'm sure that you all recognize for
any organization of the kind that we are in a part of shifting
the orbit and maintaining it at the same time is by far the
toughest question. And I'm sure you live it every day, that
dilemma and that challenge.
And, really, today -- I'm sure you experienced it.
But today I
find that no CEO will be dare caught not talking innovation.
You cannot not talk, but only less than 5 percent actually
manage to do it.
Where is this gap, really?
Power is not a question of malintent; not at all.
They
genuinely want it.
So, really, where is the -- so what drags down?
And this sticking, with the physics metaphor it also happens to
all of us individually, too, where the college students are
leaving a college, you know, and about to leave college, step
out into life, and you meet these people and ask them, what do
you want to do?
You'll hear a lot of them talk big stuff, wouldn't you?
I want to change the world.
And you meet these same people 10 years later, what has usually
happened? What has happened more often than not?
>>: [indiscernible] the world changed them.
>> Rajiv Narang: Unfortunately, more often than not, the world
has changed them. They've become hopelessly practical by now.
And their dreams are not dead but dormant.
Actually, what I have shared with you are some examples of the
way people reclaim those dreams.
How and what really happens.
What it is that happened over 10 years is really what we call
gravity. Gravity catches up. And you throw it up, and no
matter how hard you throw it up, it comes down.
You know, it
could be any community, any organization that gathers gravity
over a period no matter what. And that gravity has its power to
block change, to prevent it.
And there was a very interesting study conducted across
organizations once as to what -- how do people, a majority of
the people, react to these amazing revision and mission
statements that come out and these slogans which come out in
organizations. What do you think most people -- what is their
reaction, the large masses?
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: You know, they're -- it's -- in one word, the
reaction of the masses usually is, This too shall pass, these
guys must have come from an off-site somewhere.
And their grand
slogan is wait it out long enough, and it will go away.
Life
will continue to be what it is. As comfortable as always was.
The trouble is more often -- more often than not it's right.
They did learn to find out survival by now I'll do nothing, and
hopefully it will go away.
But that is gravity. You know, you notice the inertia which
comes with gravity. Well, that's the heart of it. And gravity
in itself it gathers over time. And so when we talk thinking
out of the box, I'd like you to think about that carefully,
because we will explore this beautiful word that is used so
easily and thrown around. The challenge is which box, and the
boxes are not available. That is the bigger question. At one
level, you have organization gravity.
Organization gathers a
real working conditioning, but over a period, industry develops
gravity. It's not just one organization, the whole industry.
One most interesting story about this brings to life
beautifully, really, is one of Walt Disney's early experiences.
You know, around the first films animation that they tried out
was Three Little Pigs. Some of you must have seen it.
It was very successful. So when Walt Disney came back and he
was talking to his studio and asked them to what film shall we
make next, what do you think was the response?
What will happen when one genre of film began -- begins to
succeed?
You know, pigs work. Pigs sell. Pigs Two. That was the very
natural response. And good people for a minute doubt their
capacity or ability.
But that's what conditioning does.
You know, Walt Disney thought about it a lot, and he came back.
And he was saying, you know, it struck me now, you can't beat
pigs with pigs. You have to do something else.
That is when they went on to make Snow White and the Seven
Dwarfs. If you know film history, it was, perhaps, the first
full-length feature film in animation.
It started virtually as
the feature of films, animated feature films.
It took a Snow
White to beat pigs.
Over a period, what happens to any industry?
You notice over a period everything starts to look the same
across an industry. Everybody is making pigs. In fact, the
whole industry becomes a massive pig making factory.
And people
will tell you, well, I have a blue pig, I have a slimmer pig, I
have a faster pig, I have a cheaper pig, but it's a pig
nevertheless. There's no Snow White on the agenda even by now.
And, of course, we then say this has commoditized this industry.
Completely commoditized, you can't do anything at a reduced
price.
And very naturally, right?
And everybody's doing the same thing.
I'd like you to just think about this question. Banks, the idea
for mutual funds did not come from a bank. Over 75 years across
the world, the same blind spot. And what was the blind spot?
That they thought of their customers as people who save and
don't invest. Now, think about this. Very well cultivated
businesses. And you can't fault the bank with hiring talent.
They hired the best talent money can buy and gave them the
fanciest designation. I'm sure you know that. They are masters
of this art.
But that hardly has insured them of this conditioning.
75 years
around the world, the same blind spot.
In fact, the biggest
changers in banking have not come from a bank.
This one micro
finance did not come from a bank. Mobile banking also didn't
come from a bank either. In fact, really this industry began in
Kenya, feeling that their domain was getting upset, or these
folks would have formed new banking.
It doesn't even sound like this.
How it worked. These are -- do you think this idea would have
emerged internally and would have been dismissed?
Very likely. In fact, some new guy must have said, you know,
why not try this. And if a new guy says this, what is he likely
to be told?
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: Yeah. How long have you been here?
Two months? Come on. After you've been here two years, then
I'll ask you.
I mean, after two years he won't ask these silly questions,
right?
You know, work conditioning teaches people the questions not to
ask. The best conditioning is really about that. The fine art
of survival is what not to ask. It's not about what to risk.
But this is implicit in folklore, industry gravity.
Even
deeper, the deeper boxes are country and culture invariably.
I'd like you to think about this. These are even deeper.
Industry we all think about. These are actually even deeper.
And to -- when you dig in deeper and these boundaries really
come alive when you see different levels of markets meeting,
say, develop a company from a developing industry trying to
enter an emerging market. These boundaries really come alive
there.
UPS, uninterrupted power supply companies, multinationals enter
emerging markets. Now, the UPS industry had a legacy of their
own in their minds. UPS was associated with a computer, right?
So that's how it had worked in developed markets.
When they
entered the emerging markets, they extended their thinking.
You
know, you're attacking a new market with the old market's
mindset. That happens to the best of us. In this case, they
did it. So what is the size of the market equal to the computer
penetration?
How do you penetrate this market through electronic stores?
Extension of the paradigm.
And what it missed actually was the biggest opportunity
possible. The biggest opportunity in emerging markets was the
home loop invertor, because power supply in itself gets
disrupted. People need it for their livelihood day to day.
And
they completely missed that. It was just simply a blind spot
for 40 years. And until the local entrepreneurs did a big thing
there, and actually they reversed it.
From creating inverters
for the house, they also made them -- enabled them to use it for
the lap tops, too. You can imagine what happened then, how
power capability was there.
The opportunity was missed. It was not an issue of capability.
They could have dealt with it if they knew it.
But trouble was
the capacity to see it and seeing them attempting a next market
with the old market's mindset. And the biggest -- so this is
one level.
What happened to developed markets, companies, which are doing
brilliantly in one market as they try and replicate it?
I've heard this very frequently. And when that application does
not succeed in an emerging market, the reaction is this market
is not ready yet. Have you heard that one?
You know, what could be a more imperialistic statement than
that?
Now, think about it.
The markets are ready but for something
else. The markets are always ready for something else.
The
trouble is they are not ready for what we want to give them.
And if only we would just step back a little bit and see what
they really thought, there is so much great opportunity waiting
out there. It's so fascinating how frequently this happens.
The market is not ready yet.
And on the other hand, the finest example of this arrogance,
really, is also French wines. Lost market share for 30 years
earning. And it's so difficult to change, because the French
just don't drink any other wine. They don't believe anybody
else can do it better. All French wines are labeled in French,
because you're not supposed to understand.
If it's French, it
must be good. It's so amazing, the degree of it that the height
to which it has taken.
But 30 years of they were the market leaders.
Challengers
appeared all around them, California wines, New Zealand wines,
South African wines, you name it and the challengers, and the
French market share has dropped amazingly.
Very sad how it took
them 30 years to even start changing their business model.
30
years since. The really interesting story which we'll talk
about some that I call the baddest judgment even.
French food
chefs compared French wines with Californians wines, and
Californian wines scored on a blind test.
You think the French
believed it?
No. No. No way. This was in 1975. And 30 years later, the
same test, the same results. Very difficult. You notice
arrogance reaches the point where you're denied reality even.
It is not easy. It's very painful, actually.
The other side in emerging markets, we have a different kind of
a country and culture of gravity subservience.
It takes a
different form altogether. The belief that how could we have
been the first ones to have come up with it.
In fact, the
belief in a lot of these economies they get a big idea, come on,
how could we have been the first ones to have gotten it?
I mean, if we've got it, those guys must have actually thought
of it long time ago and not done it. It can't be that we've
come up with it.
In fact, one organization which was into watches, their R & D
team was thrown this challenge, to create the slimmest water
resistant watch in the world, slimmest and water resistant.
Now, this was in India, again. Can you imagine what the
reaction of this team was to this challenge?
Have the Swiss done it?
Now, the Swiss are the guards of precision engineering, right?
And the Swiss had not done it and believed it could not be done.
You can imagine what their reaction was.
My God, the Swiss said
it can't be done. It can't be done, right?
Now, that's gravity.
But, fortunately, they got through this gravity in their mind
and said if the Swiss can't do it, we will. It took them six
years, and they did. The same team did it. But that was the
box.
You don't need the enemy outside. The enemy inside is far
bigger. There's now industries, country and culture gravity now
playing out which makes people do reverse engineering rather
than innovation. I'm sure you seen those engineering, right,
pick up something, modify it a little and call it ours rather
than believe that they can -- we can live with it.
Tremendous
break through happens at that point.
That unleashes the new
thought. So no matter how much ideation you teach these people,
it will get used to create even more reverse engineering faster.
I hope you connected me to the value.
It doesn't matter how
many ideation techniques they learn.
Ideations will be used to
do reverse engineering faster and better rather than go to the
heart of it as to where is the real boundary.
And if you notice, all that I've been sharing with you is
gravity. Where does it stem from?
Just to unscramble it in our little minds, ideas emerge from
frames. The change is how do we do it now, how do we break
through it, right, as people?
The one thing is to know how to do it. Ideas in our minds
emerge from frames. Imagine frames are like windows to your
mind. When you're attacking a question or a problem, you open a
window, and it reveals some ideas. When we run out of ideas,
the answers are not finished. The frame is saturated. Shift
the frame, and a new burst of thinking will start.
Frames are
like windows. Even people invent mental model, the mindset that
we're talking about, that's like the lens.
It doesn't matter
what window you open, the lens doesn't change.
The lens is me.
It's deeper. That's actually the precise mindset that you start
with. That's the most invisible as you go deeper.
So this
gravity, gravity is involved in this mental model.
And really
all our work is about how do you make it nice and then start
breaking through those. Even recognizing them can be a
challenge. This is a big method around the iteration world.
Create a structure and a process, and innovation will happen,
right?
So we create a department about innovation and create a
stage-geared process and then hope innovation will happen.
I've
never seen a breakthrough come through a process like that.
I
don't know if you have.
You know, what are we trying to do?
We are trying to use the -- a standard principle which -- that's
how we handle quality. So we create a department around
quality. And it was done, but that was all right, because it
was maintaining the orbit. But orbit shifting is like creating
another department. The most helpless people I've seen our
chief innovation officers. What do they actually do?
So they end up actually creating this central idea management
and hope something will happen. How would something happen if
it is not on the leadership agenda at all?
It would be easy to keep the -- let's start with this thought.
Orbit shifting is the purpose. Innovation is the means.
Managing innovation will not let innovation happen.
If there is
no appetite for it, appetite comes from orbit shifting.
You
want to transform something and aren't really improving it now,
doing more of the same can't do it. Now this is a need for
innovation.
Innovation can't be managed. It has to be unleashed. Our
learning over these years is orbit shifting is the purpose.
Innovation will be deployed. It will happen. But if the
purpose is merely to maintain the orbit, then all the discussion
around innovation really will end up nowhere.
There's no need
for it, actually. Nobody actually wants it. It's just a nice
thing to talk about?
And this is another bit. So you have to hire cowboys. And the
hope is again something will happen, but these cowboys become
part of the gravity in no time. The gravity's far bigger than
individuals. I mean, the expectation to have four guys will
change something that will only be temporary at best unless
we -- so really the start point is not about structures,
processes or hiring new people. We're breaking through that
mindset gravity at the core. And when that unleashes, we've seen
the same people do it.
It does not take a change of teams. In
fact, more often than not in our experiences, it will not take a
change of teams.
The same guys did the impossible once
the mindset gravity was unleashed.
So the other method is this one, right?
It starts with an out-of-the-box idea.
I'm sure you've seen
these romance discussed a lot in some way or they say this is a
great idea. All these stories are based on hindsight.
The
trouble is these are accidents usually.
You can't wait and hope
for accident. For an organization, you're designed for it.
What you're really learning is that is not an out-of-the-box
idea. But an out-of-the-box challenge is where it starts,
deliberate out of the box challenge, which cannot be done
through doing more of the same.
To give you a very interesting example of this.
Korea. Telecom
into mobiles. Now, 3G's being introduced there as a network.
Now, the data coming out of the box challenge will monetize the
nonmonetized part of the network. It was not grow our business
say 30 percent. The minute you do that people do more of the
same even better. But this was an out-of-the-box monetized and
nonmonetized part of the network. And it's very interesting
the. More that they said that, one team -- one of the partners
was looking at this and recognized that the ring tone is not
monetized.
Actually, when you call me and my phone rings 10 times and I
don't pick up my phone, I don't respond, you actually use my
network and not paid me for it. How would monetizing that have
led to ring tones and all the missed call services which erupted
from there, but where did it start?
Out-of-the-box idea didn't come first.
The challenge came
first. Starting with an out-of-the-box challenge leads to an
out-of-the-box idea, not the other way around, and that -- and
I'm mentioning that where it is done despite design and
deliberately when you want to really provoke thinking to another
level.
And to give you another example of this, a company in Europe
Alra Foods was dairy products. They wanted to create a Big
leap. And they also started an out-of-the-box challenge space
food for the dairy products. I mean, imagine they took on a
challenge of space food. Business guys said the only clients
you have two, but the question was when you take your mind there
we clear back through which can then be commercialized.
So they actually did send it up to NASA, and it got
commercialized in various formats.
But it started there.
With the correction of all this talk, you might say I deem it
very fanciful, but who will actually do it?
I mean, in business, in organizations, who are the heros?
Heros are people who are great at overthinking and
overachieving, right?
Most organizations build this culture very beautifully. So the
beginning of the year when event planning is happening for next
year, who are the heros?
The guys who know how to promise, just get a goal which is just
below where they can achieve. That's supposed to be the
hallmark of negotiation skills.
There is a question of an out-of-the-box challenge.
People have
to be nuts to be taking that on and calling it a KPI.
Absolutely not.
Now, think about it. There's no question. So really the
biggest idea is not the fear of. This is a myth that it's a
fear of commercial risk. The bigger, badder fear is the fear of
personal risk. Who will put his credibility on the line for an
out-of-the-box challenge, and how do we cultivate and perform a
system which distinguishing the tools of managers, leaders don't
manage an innovation the way they manage performance.
Now, that's the trouble with this world of ours, right?
That we try and manage innovation the way we manage performance.
The reviews, the metrics are not very different. Very often the
engaging is absolutely similar.
For us, the crucial difference
had been an orbit-shifting challenge is not a number to be
achieved. It's a direction, not a destination. In the chance
of it, we wind up miles beyond where we are today even if we
never get there. It doesn't matter if you don't get there,
because in the challenge of it, we, in any case, have gone miles
from where we are today. What's more important, transforming
the status quo or achieving some numbers for the sake of them?
Because in this case, the organization movement is far more than
it would be otherwise. A lot of the examples that I shared with
you, those people never actually achieved those numbers, but in
the change of it, they shifted the industry reference points
forever.
So this is about how does one -- so innovation needs ideation is
the other bit. Not really. I urge you if there is one thing
I'd like you to keep in your mind at the end of the day is when
you set on a big innovation journey, the start point is not
brainstorming innovating ideas.
If you want to break through,
the start point is mapping the mental models of the current ways
of thinking in that place.
In fact, when we start on any of our missions, the first point
is map mental model boundaries. That's it. Believe me. Seeing
those mental models will make us see the blind spots in no time.
It will stop this urge of rushing into ideation.
Take on a big challenge. Just map boundaries and how many blind
spots will come through. And each blind spot is an orbit that
the team will see in no time.
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Rajiv Narang: I will. In fact, I'm just coming to that.
Let's illustrate that for you. So for just to give you an
example, we started out with union leaders.
Some years ago,
their challenge was create the next game changing in laundry,
for example. Now, they say, you know, around the world actually
we've done hats lots of ideation. We have more than 4,000
ideas. I doubt there could be anything new, but let's try.
So we invite you to share your ideas with us, and we want them.
Essentially, what we started to see was those ideas, what are
the underlying frames and what are the underlying mental models.
Once the mental models started to emerge, the blind spots were
very visible. Think about it. Laundry equals removing, right?
In your mind, laundry is a process equal to really moving the
bag of it. So all of the ideas -- most of the ideas are how to
remove faster, better, with less water, more efficient, et
cetera, et cetera.
But the fascinating thing was the mental model boundary was
removed. But that is post dirt, right?
The moment it is post dirt imaging, you think of an alternative.
How about predirt?
How about renting dirt?
How about living with it?
And making the process of removal a lot more intricate.
Those questions started coming up, and we started questioning
the -- once they started questioning the mental model, we were
to do it. Once they see the mental model, the blind spots are
very visible, but that was -- that was one.
The other thing was about removing.
What about adding?
You might think we're going to add dirt for sure; of course,
not. But that -- those are the points where unusual things
begin to happen. And the question really was adding -- what
about adding health. But that's not laundry. Think about that.
But that's not laundry, right?
That's the immediate reaction.
The trouble is that metaphor of
laundry is a mental model by now. It is stuck. So the -- so
there is the mental model.
I'll give you a couple of more examples around this to get to
the underlying why, how and what of mental models.
There are
mental models surrounding the why, the what and the how at all
points of time. We start with invisible usually.
In the water industry, the hope by the first one was you notice
the whole industry here had gotten trapped into a process, a
sequence. First -- so purification is about what?
Filter at the source, then package, then drink.
So filter at
the source where the water comes into a house.
It has to be
filtered at that point. Then packaged, then drunk.
Now, the whole industry's busy in the same mental model.
So,
therefore, everybody is making it faster, better, cheaper with
more features. You notice now what's happened. The mental
model is stuck.
The one company in Switzerland they did challenge it very
beautifully. Why purify at the source? How about purifying it
as you drink?
So the life straw. You can drink from anywhere, and it purifies
it. You notice the photographs of people drinking from a lake
there. It's cost effective, can free doable thousand
milliliters in a year. Can you imagine how many lives this will
save of people who could never possibly ever afforded that and
also how liberating it can be?
And this company is not in water purification.
They were into
fabric. So, really, didn't take a new technology.
It take -it took the application of existing technologies in new ways.
That's another bit. The next big technology will make the big
leap happen. I urge you to think that's an escape route.
The
new ways of using and visiting even older technologies have so
much power waiting there for them. It's really not the next big
leap will come from the next big technology.
Applications of
new -- new applications of existing technologies and combination
will create leaps, creative combinations as they did in this
case. So this is the how.
Let's talk about the why, right?
With all these people that are into diabetes, all these
companies over a period of time found that one company was
questioning, what are we pill pushers, are we selling pills.
How about helping the patient manage the disease?
And diabetes happened to start ruling your life.
So reframe it,
how about helping manage the disease.
And that led to the
NovoPen, a pen-like device with one click which can deliver a
dosage.
Now, for people who get to a high level of diabetes, social life
becomes tough, becomes embarrassing.
Life's rhythms get
disrupted. And so something which can be carried almost like a
lifestyle statement, open it one click delivers.
Now, what happened was people first time thought now I control
diabetes, doesn't control me.
But can you imagine this organization breaking through this
boundary with all their life they're thinking about developing
the next drug. It's not about a drug-delivery device.
That was
actually part of some marketing gimmick.
They didn't even
patent it. How would this have been a game changer in that
world?
But what is the mental model boundary, the why?
Well, what are
they into? And is there a completely different way of thinking?
Giving the low cost airline also started like this.
What is the
purpose of the airline?
Is it the comfort, or is it getting from point to point at the
lowest cost?
You notice somebody questioned it fundamentally, because over a
period of time, everybody's adding value without asking value
for what? People become creative at adding value and
overachieving anything. Anything gets engineered out of shape
over a period. Everybody's contribution is a value add and
not -- and not a transform.
So what I've tried to illustrate to you is what does it make to
happen.
And I'm just going to jump a few slides, because we have a time
issue to deal with.
The other is innovation equals insulated invention, getting the
blind spot for the mental model boundary, but if you want to do
it deliberately, it is not sitting in a room and generating
ideas and experimenting. The challenge is to join dots across
domains and across industries. In fact, do it deliberately;
that we found always works. It opens up. Searching for a
mental model boundary is a search for the next question; is not
a search for the answer. For the new question, you find the new
question, you'll find the answer. The trouble is finding the
question in its itself. So it's not really the search for ideas
but the search for new questions. How do you do that?
By joining new dots deliberately.
In fact, what -- well, what
we get teams to look at is for any business they are in is
fascinating. There are six horizons to join dots.
First, look at the edgy customers in our field, not the usual
ones, the edgy ones and what can be learned from them.
The Novi
pen can't from that, the insight. One girl -- one of the
customers they found had done something very unusual.
She
actually developed a syringe, gotten a local clinic to develop
it and prepackage it for the day. So, well, you know, that's
interesting. How can we develop it into a product now, a pen
shaped thing that is preloaded for a day or for a week actually.
But that's -- where did it start from?
One edgy customer, that
one edgy insight.
And so the challenge is not the usual, though.
Edgy customers
will challenge the mental model boundaries.
The boundaries will
get challenged when you engage with them.
The searching for
them, engaging with them is one horizon.
Second, not just edgy customers equals. They work with the team
which is creating a breakthrough in security, data security. So
they meet the edgy customers first, then ecosystem.
Well, who's in the ecosystem?
Of course, the edgy customers were the usual securities applies
in companies, et cetera, et cetera.
Ecosystem. It also had
hackers. Lots of insight came from talking, talking to hackers.
You don't know how do you engage with security.
Perhaps, there
would be more insights there. But the most fascinating equals
was going even further, marketing intersections, tying them,
knowledge intersections. Who else deals with the security but
is not a part of data security, in a different world altogether?
There are a doctor deals with body security.
Talking to a
doctor about body security opened up new questions.
And they
found very fascinatingly that for them security with -- the
mental model of security was like a fort, to prevent something
from coming in versus the body which is about self-immunizing.
That broke one of the mental models for them.
Could be a
different way of thinking here.
And to talk to a entomologist how ants deal with security.
You
notice each of these is joining new dots.
But those dots don't
join together. You can't go around shopping for ideas.
You do
them deliberately. And this team on laundry, they joined new
dots with the -- with the scientist who was involved in studying
barnacles, if you like. Why did they meet him?
Because the moving is not restricted to the laws of biological
dirt. So let's meet somebody who deals with bacteria.
So
sometimes you're talking all bacteria is bad, all bacteria is
bad, kill it, kill it. No. Some bacteria is good. For
example, barnacles. You know, they sit on the body of the
animal inside the sea. Actually, it's food. Help them take in
nourishment. That led to a idea of what about doing the same
thing to clothes, take in health? Could something prevent
accidents?
Now, that opened a new question, right?
Now, certainly new dots joined. That's where it opened up, what
about adding health. There could be a different way of
thinking.
But where do they start talking to these people, engage at
least. Conversations don't happen over a piece of paper and
report. These are live engagement dialogs.
These are what we
call insight dialogs. When you open up insight dialogs, it's
fascinating how many new dots start to join. And all these will
then become possible.
These are six horizons. And taking a team actually to engage
with these, it's fascinating how many new dots join and very
quickly. It takes a matter of weeks, actually, not even months.
Well, what happened accidentally over years can happen in a week
or two weeks by deliberately setting up these joining dot
conversations, of course, deciding them first.
You know, another company settled on this challenge, and they
were talking to us about reducing water usage in all the
personal care products, personal care products, your bathing, et
cetera, all water intensive. And water is becoming a challenge
worldwide. How do we reduce it, was there their question.
So let's say you know how to optimize it, reduce in the shampoo,
et cetera. A lot of conversation happened like this.
And what
I was telling them, well, you know, if you start like this how
to reduce water we'll end up an optimizing answer.
It's not an
orbit-shifting challenge. What would be an orbit-shifting
challenge?
How about change in personal care with zero water.
That is
orbit shifting as a challenge, right, to substitute it
100 percent?
Now, we have no answer. You only have the question now. Then
we settled on this journey. And who did we meet here, the edgy
customers. Army officers who had been on glaciers, they have no
access. People who have no access to water, what do they do?
So new insights started from there.
We even met a prisoner in a cell. They have very little access
to water. What do they do? Somebody was keeping himself up
with a pale. So it was meeting exceptional edgy customers.
Nurses who handle bedridden patients.
You notice each
conversation was a new link altogether in the mind happening.
And in terms of the knowledge intersections, completely new
people who have done away with any kind of dependencies.
When they started to join, all these new possibilities opened
up, and they have a range of at least three game changes in the
pipeline now.
And, finally, the guider won't get killed.
They just get
diluted. Let's have you come up with a big idea.
What will
happen to it now?
Now you find that certainly the rest of the organization needed
to execute it. Just few guys came up with it. Everybody has to
be involved in executing it. What feels like a Snow White in a
boardroom becomes a pig by the time it reaches the market,
because everybody takes away a little bit from it.
How many
battles would you fight, how many cyber battles, to watch the
exciting opportunity [indiscernible]?
It's a headache, right?
As if I don't have enough work.
So you know what happens at this stage?
People engage with the
new with the old comfort zones. It's a triangle manager handles
triangles 10 years of his life, and now you're giving him a
circle. So what will he do?
He'll fit the circle to the triangle and see what he can do and
what he can't do. Yeah. If you want to do that, then you have
to wait five years. And so forget it, man.
Actually, let's compromise. Let's at least do 80 percent what
you can do. First compromise. This is the very way compromises
happen. I'm sure you lived through these compromises.
In a lot of staged interviews, this is exactly what happens.
We
start fitting in the new to our existing way of working, and the
compromise is one small touch at a time.
It reduces over a
period. And then when it doesn't work, we say the idea was bad.
Actually, the execution was a problem.
The idea was okay. It
was taken out of shape by the time it finished.
So, really top
management must mandate doesn't work.
Finally, the biggest challenge for innovators is to enroll
cross-functional people and to make it into a shared dream now.
That is by far the lowest skilled, and which is the toughest
challenge usually to excite and enroll peers into contributing
to it with the same excitement that they feel now.
And, finally, the big idea is enough.
Not really a big product.
Big true product will need a big true marketing innovation,
perhaps. Sometimes a new idea goes into the old pipe in the
last mile. It is sold in the old way. It is taken to market in
the old way. And it gets reduced to nothing.
So very often the last mile go the market is an even bigger
challenge, and some of the bigger like MPresa, for example,
didn't start out like the way you see in the model even.
It
started out as way to breath. They started out a micro finance
company will be our customers. For two years they start that
out til they discovered the bigger opportunity was with beta
scene, but they had no patience to see it through.
In a year
and a half of experimenting in a small way in one market, they
figured out by the time it finished it was B to C.
Even bigger
opportunity had developed. They didn't start with that insight.
They finished with it. But can we have a way of doing that by
design?
Is there a reason why more ideas shouldn't succeed?
Because we as humans there is no shape.
It will be the final
shape. It won't be. In the market, the dynamics will change
it, and we are open to seeing it. Not just open. Do it by
design. In fact, it's in-market versioning, not product
versioning. In-market versioning. Build it in-market success
model. Not, See it works. Say, Let's see if it works. There
is no if. There's only how to make it work. The first really
idea might not work. The second might not work. The third will
work.
So these are the six different stages that I tried to pull out
for you.
You know, with all our learning, seeing it, I hope I've tried to
share with you from the starting from how you initiate it to
build it, to grow it, to take it to market.
What does it take to make it happen?
I think we've run out of time. But questions, are left to you.
Yes, please. Anything you like to add, ask or share?
>>: [indiscernible] question around you talking about
incremental change versus innovation.
Innovation seems to in
that context to be this big game changer.
What if you have a
product in mind, how do you -- you know, how do you approach it
so it's not an incremental change, it's an innovative change
into something that may [indiscernible]?
>> Rajiv Narang: Actually, let me see if I understood your
question.
At two levels. One is to -- just to demystify that orbit
shifting; can happen across all the levels in an organization.
Yes. The examples I've given you are larger than life kind of
examples.
For example, at a function level, we've even worked with
companies right on the shop floor. So where the guys at the
shop floor have made leaps happen have created new reference
points for the industry worldwide but in their space.
It's an
orbit-shifting innovation in his space.
It need not be a game
changer at an industry level. But for -- it's a functional
orbit shift, shall we say. It could be a communicational orbit
shift. It could be an organization orbit shift or an industry
orbit shift.
The thing is there is space for every one of us.
In fact, even
for mental for HR, product innovation in HR, right, talent,
market. The product we have is perhaps in the industrial age.
There's so much opportunity sitting there.
So I would -- the only thing is to shift focus to creating a
quantum leap in my space. That would be an orbit shift.
But to lift it so that we don't assume the process is a given.
An incremental innovation assumes the process. Okay, you need
to tweak it. But when we say an orbit shift, then the process
in itself becomes a question. We're making change.
Please.
>>: So one of the things you mentioned at the end was this
example where the idea is a circle and everybody knows about
triangles, you know the, circling the triangle.
And the
solution -- if I understood correctly, the solution was being
told to stay focussed early on and [indiscernible] invested into
this orbit.
>> Rajiv Narang: Yes.
>>: Shifting.
And I agree with that. But I just find that sort of -- an
unsavvy mind. You know, in large organizations, there are many
stakeholders.
>> Rajiv Narang: Yeah.
>>: Practical. We don't want to be.
>> Rajiv Narang: I would think at various stages the challenge
is to engage them in a cocreater manner rather than in
presenting and differing manners.
The presenting and differing
is the real issue. And, also, I would urge to think when a
stakeholder starts saying no, the challenge is how do you engage
with that. What appears to be an unconditional no, could be a
conditional yes.
The challenge is to get to that why. And, therefore, use it as
an opportunity rather than backtrack immediately, because nobody
really has a malintent, or at least 95 percent people don't have
it. They get misunderstood more often than not.
And we found that when we are actually engaged, you'll find what
started out as a no very often is a conditional yes.
But,
actually, discovering that actually transcends the idea.
And
when the person finds his thinking has gotten understood and is
contributed, he starts wanting to.
That is an illustration.
So, really share with them in a work in progress stage.
As we
say, sharing with them things which are later all in a work in
progress stage exclusivity. A fully disclosed deck is
excluding, actually. But preparing them for that is a question.
Yes?
>>: The ops -- most of these -- or I was wondering I deal with
a lot of organizations that pride themselves on having a narrow
scope by design.
How do you find is the best way to, let's say, to challenge them
to see that why the scope would be better for the organization?
Just because, like, they are so proud of only doing one specific
piece of the picture. And wondering if you have any thoughts
of.
>> Rajiv Narang: Basically, how do you provoke them to think
beyond it, is it?
If you notice, it would really begin with first some person
reaching a stage of positive restlessness with the current
stage. Now, the question is where is that restlessness sitting.
It is to uncover that and leverage that to move them, because
very often with the heart first, and the mind will follow is the
principle that we found works usually.
In fact, I'd urge you to
think with the heart first and the mind will follow rather than
the other way around it especially with -- wherever there is a
positive restlessness is uncover those and leverage those points
to move them.
Please.
>>: [indiscernible] already reached out to your organization to
have you be a consultant. Whereas now -- [indiscernible]. And
what advice would you give them?
>> Rajiv Narang: Well, all I can say is that there is so much
opportunity. I would think they at least [indiscernible]
emerging especially in India is how do we leverage innovation to
leap frog development and innovation and not merely catch up
quite like what's happened in the mobile space.
You know, it's
fascinating there in a short span over a decade the way it has
leap frogged; is not merely caught up.
It's like following the
usual model would have taken decades.
What has happened in a
few years? Can the same thing happen in other spaces?
And there is an example which I want to share with you in
literacy where the same thing is happening, what I shared with
you in Mongolia. That is the part of innovation which deal with
the fundamental questions differently.
But not to follow, but
to question.
Today, just to share with you, the National Innovation Council
in each state has a state innovation council, and we are now
automating getting these requests for state innovation roadmap
purposes. So starting there. It's at the start. But I am
hopeful, but then I am a hopeless optimist
>>: My company is going through a lot of changes, and what we
find when we ask questions people are very receptive in
listening to the question, but then one starts answering one of
those questions, that's when things go awry.
So my question is about people are always -- are always
welcoming when you start asking questions, but when you stop the
question, put the stake on the floor and start answering and
doing something, that's when the devil gets loose.
So what is your one key point that I can take so that when we
move from the transition being questioning to answering how do
you control that part?
>> Rajiv Narang: You notice what happens is the moment you
start answering those stakes get involved, right?
Intellectual discussion is easy.
It's nice to have a very
fascinating discussion as long as there is nothing to be done at
the end of it. But then if something is to be done which I have
to do, my God. So where does it begin? Why are we questioning?
If we have an out-of-the-box challenge first, then questioning
is normal. It is natural. You have to question then.
The first question is to have that challenge sitting up there
what doing more of the same cannot do.
Now people are engaged
in questioning. There -- in fact, they will listen to the
question now. But the starting point really is there.
Somebody
has to put stake on the ground there.
>>: Everybody has -- I mean, the whole company likes questions,
likes to listen to questions. And for that same reason our goal
is to make money. So we like to make money. We like to ask
questions, but we don't know -- when we start thinking of doing
certain things to make money that's when things go bad.
So my question is -- again, my question is, what sort of
questions and what sort of mindset should we take with us so
that as questions become answers we can do the orbit shifting.
>> Rajiv Narang: Actually, we have often found that money is a
consequence. In fact, is the question. That finally how do you
want game changing. In fact, we want to create in the market.
Therefore, money will come. But what is that?
For example, the MPresa idea, it didn't start by an idea.
They
actually looked at what are the beginning development goals of
the UN and how can we contribute to those.
And financial access
was one. You notice it started there, the big insight, the
opportunity. I urge you to think where are those big
opportunities sitting out there.
There in fact is needed.
People sign on to an in fact. They want to change it up.
Then it starts being pressure. It becomes inspiration.
Otherwise, seems like pressure.
Targets are pressurizing, but, in fact, changing lives is
inspiring. There's a reason to do things. After all you need
that extraordinary motivation.
Yes?
>>: I was going to ask a very specific Microsoft ->> Rajiv Narang: Please do.
>>: -- question.
We're -- I mean, we're at a point we have a new CEO who's making
a valiant effort to change culture toward innovation.
And how
do you -- how important is culture in all of this?
And how do
you do it in the company of a 100 or now 125,000 employees?
>> Rajiv Narang: I would think -- I would think the start point
would be uncovering that gravity and confronting it directly,
but in a constructive way. The objective is not to put down
people. It's to actually construct. Really put attack mindset
clarity fundamentally. And question that. And openly do it in
the most constructive manner possible.
That is the great -- to
present the current situation not as a threat but as a greatest
opportunity of our lifetime. That -- when reinvention happens,
very rarely do you -- are you a part of reinvention doing the
same thing every day we all do. But here's an opportunity to
create absolutely, to reinvent it. If you do it with that
intent, we suggest that mindset gravity has to be done with a
view to creating the next orbit and not with to evaluating
today.
When it is done with that sense, it is positive.
It unleashes
it. It doesn't poo-poo it down. But it has to be done
directly. Deflecting it around won't make a difference.
>>: [indiscernible] example. The French wine example, what
other of these examples come to mind the companies longstanding,
you know, very successful that made orbit shifts that were
material to their growth and development and success?
>> Rajiv Narang: Which actually made it? Successful companies
that made the orbit shift happen?
Well, let me -- one well-known example is LEG.
Where the
interesting thing what I have seen is they pioneered, for
example, the guide in India in the emerging markets, you know,
we are not here --. I don't want to be known as the best MMC in
India, but the most admired Indian company.
Therefore, make
your difference to these people here is my real purpose, and
that has led them to so many breakthroughs like the Mac 400
which is a portable ECG, a portable ECG machine at one-fifth the
price, which is now a breakthrough for the world.
But they
started out with questioning that, and they had the space to do
it. So even one company had the capacity to reinvent
internally.
So there are other examples there. However, I must say they're
lesser in comparison to others which are far more the standing.
In the sense, that is where gravity takes hold tight.
But there are -- to emphasize one very successful, the same
model everywhere. This is the first time they did anything, the
first time. But what was I think the big learning there is to
derisk it, to do it in one market. The challenge is not to
award this for the out-of-the-box challenge and to try it out
fully in one market and let it play out rather than putting it
center stage and declaring it worldwide.
Then everybody gets
concerned tomorrow if it is not working.
The challenge is to
let it play out, give it space to play, to work, to grow in a
side market. It doesn't have to be a global rollout on day one.
Global rollout happens when you build it into a success model
rather than being in a hurry to roll it out.
So that helps
building that capacity in-market versioning literally and not
technically, but in-market.
versioned literally.
>>:
So the business model gets
[indiscernible] the last question.
>> Rajiv Narang: Last question.
guys. All the very best.
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you very much,