>> Rich Draves: All right. So today I am pleased to welcome some folks
from Conservation Northwest. We have Jasmine and Paul with us. And
they will be telling us about some of the work they will be doing.
Jasmine will be talking about her work with wolves and Paul will be
telling us about a broader agenda of connecting ecosystems.
So I won’t introduce them any further. They are very accomplished, but
they will have to tell you about this themselves. So without further
adieu I think we are starting with Jasmine.
>>: Paul.
>> Rich Draves: Paul, excuse me, Paul will go first then.
>> Paul Bannick: Great. Thanks’ everybody for coming. I am Paul
Bannick and I am director of development at Conservation Northwest. I
want to start off just by giving you an umbrella about Conservation
Northwest before we get into the star attraction, Jasmine Minbashian.
Conservation Northwest has worked for 20 years to connect the wild
areas in Washington State. Any animal habitat that’s isolated and not
connected to a bigger hole will not survive. And what Conservation
Northwest has been trying to do is identify the most important habitats
and the most important linkages between those habitats used by the
animals and then protecting those core areas and those links so that
wild life can migrate, can breed with un-related individuals and can
spread their ranges. And the 20 years we have been working help
preserve some of the best places in the northwest, but there is still
some left to protect and we will talk about that.
But one of the heartwarming things that has happened in these last five
years, particularly for those of us who have lived in the northwest for
a long time is we have seen greater numbers of wolverine. We have seen
lynx populations surviving. We have seen the return of grizzly bears
and perhaps the most exciting of all we have seen the return of the
wolves to Washington State.
And I am happy to have Jasmine Minbashian our wolf program director
today and she is going to talk a little bit about wolves returning to
Washington, some of the challenges, sharing a little bit of the BBC
film with you and then asking any questions you might have about
wolves.
So without further adieu, Jasmine.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Thanks’ Paul and it’s great to be here on the
Microsoft campus. It is my second time. It is always really
impressive and inspiring to be here. As Paul was saying there is a
wild life renaissance going on in our mountains just over there. Which
way are they, that way in the Cascades. And it’s really incredible to
witness to see this all happening in my short lifetime on the length of
time I have been working on these issues, it’s nothing short of
remarkable.
And the wolf in particular is, I think, one of the greatest
conservation success stories of our time. And we are here to witness
it. It’s really exciting. And it’s a very dramatic story. If you
have been following wolf recovery in the west you know that it can be
quite heated and controversial and not an easy thing. There are a lot
of ups and downs. And I always thought that wolf recovery in
Washington will be different. But what we have seen so far is that we
are being faced with some of the same challenges we are seeing in other
parts of the west.
We were so excited and thrilled in 2008 when our remote camera program
found, got the first picture of pups, wolf pups on its camera. And
there were six incredible little pups on this photo and we couldn’t
believe it. But that excitement and that joy fell to a low when we
learned out that pack, that lookout pack, many of those individuals
were killed by poachers. And that to me immediately signaled well
wolves are going to come back, but the question is are people going to
let them come back? It’s really up to us as a society.
And there are some unique challenges to Washington as a state that we
don’t see other states like Idaho and Montana where we are just much
more populated. There are a lot more people on this landscape. So
that is really the question. If wolves do succeed here in Washington
it will be because we let them. We have built tolerance for this
species on the landscape because they are not always the easiest animal
to live next door too, especially if you are raising livestock.
So that’s just two short dramatic points that we hit in wolf recovery
in just the first few years that they came back. And even more
recently you may have read about the wedge pack and the issues
surrounding the wedge pack which have been extremely difficult. This
is one of only eight packs in Washington State and they began preying
on livestock. And the question was what to do? Again conflict with
people, conflict with livestock and how much effort and tolerance do we
have to live along these animals side by side? This is the important
question.
So I feel really lucky that to capture all this drama. We, I mean,
there is so much of it; it could be its own film. And now it is. We
have some of the best film makers in the world came out last year to
Washington State and made a film about the return of wolves to
Washington State. And I had the good fortune to be able to work
alongside these film makers. Incredible people with the BBC to produce
a 2 part documentary called Land of the Lost Wolves. And this has
aired all around the world, our story in the Cascades, aired all around
the world. Under different titles, Land of the Lost Wolves and
Expedition Wolf are some of the names it has been called. And then
here in the US it aired on Discovery called Man Verses Wolf.
And today what I want to share with you are some of my favorite scenes
from the film. Just give you a little taste and if you would like to
see the whole thing it’s available on YouTube or we are doing a big
showing on November 1st at Kane Hall with a panel discussion afterwards
with Chris Morgan who is a grizzly bear biologist who is in the film as
well and some folks from the Washington Department of Fish and
Wildlife.
So I think I will just go right into the film and I can, after I show
you, it’s about a six minute clip --.
Oh, I can get the lights Paul, there is al little thing there.
I just wanted to briefly, quickly tell you why I want to show you these
clips in particular. First is the intro, it really sets the stage for
why wolves coming back to Washington matters. Not just to us here
living in the state, but to the rest of the west, to the rest of the
country. What’s the context? The second thing I want to share with
you is really personal. A really personal to me experience. It was
the first time I saw wolves in the wild in the Cascades. I have been
working now for 15 years. Wanting to see wolves come back and to be
standing and actually witnessing them with my own eyes in the Cascade
Mountains was one of the most memorable and unforgettable experiences
of my life. And it’s on film, I can’t, I still can’t comprehend that.
So I wanted to share that with you.
And then a friend of mine and a fellow who is also in the film, Isaac
Babcock is a great wolf biologist, he helped us document the Teanaway
pack, which is literally an hour and fifteen minutes east of here. He
was able to get them on film and record their howls. And there is a
segment on film that’s brilliant. I wanted to share that with you.
And if we have time I will also show you some video footage of the
[indiscernible] pack. And then I can answer some questions about the
film, making the film and then let you know about what our wolf program
entails.
Here we go.
[music]
>>: Across the planet [inaudible] is under threat.
odds one animal is making a comeback, the wolf.
But against all
No where is their return more controversial than North America.
>>: They are vicious.
wolf.
If the devil had an animal, it’s the Canadian
>>: Man’s hatred of the wolf is deep seeded.
>>: Well we are going to have to hunt them. We are going to have to
trap them. We are going to have to poison them if possible.
>>: Now a team of wildlife experts is heading to the front line.
>>: We are here to map what happens when wolves try to return.
ancient battle between man and wolf going to be reignited?
Is that
>>: What’s happened lately has revised some of our thinking about what
wolves are capable of doing. 200 years from now I would like to see
this wolf population expanded and we would have one vast connection of
wolves where they used to be in Canada all the way through these
Western states and back into Mexico. So a lot rides in the shoulders
of those Washington wolves. Can they pull this off? How smart are
they?
>>: Based in a remote valley in the Cascades Mountains the team has
just one month to track down a new wolf pack. Biologist Jasmine
Minbashian has come pained long and hard to see the wolfs return.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Since I was a little girl I have spent time
skiing, and backpacking, and walking through these mountains and I
often think about the wildlife that live here, but the cascade
mountains without wolves is like the Serengeti without lions. It’s
just not the same.
>>: The next day Jasmine is called out at dawn. Local biologist Scott
[indiscernible] has heard wolves howling in the valley.
[howl]
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Oh, I think I hear them.
[howl]
>> Jasmine Minbashian: It’s unbelievable. I have got hair on the back
of my neck standing up. I don’t think I have ever been this close to
wolves.
>>: Sorry, what’s that on the ridge there?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Look at that, there is
a wolf. Two wolves. Oh my gosh. I can’t believe my eyes. So we just
spotted two wolves on a ridge. It’s so exciting.
[music]
>> Jasmine Minbashian: That is amazing.
Oh my god.
[laughter]
>>: But of the original 10 only 2 remained.
>>: We have a lab report and we believe that animal was shot.
>>: The pack had been illegally killed.
following up fresh wolf sightings.
Isaac and Jasmine headed south
>> Jasmine Minbashian: If we can document a second pack this far south
we are building up a much bigger picture of a major comeback for wolves
in this region.
>>: Back in Washington Isaac still has his sites trained on what he
thinks is the wolf packs rendezvous site, but he has seen nothing all
day, time to try something new.
[howling]
>>: That’s a pup.
[howling]
>>: That’s a pup.
[howling]
>>: There is a bunch of wolves in there.
close.
They are really, really
>>: It is indeed a new pack.
[music]
>>: Doug’s vision may not be that far away. Wolves continue to
strengthen their foothold in Washington. Five packs are now confirmed
living in the state. The front line continues to push further down the
west coast. And a wolf has now reached northern California. The
return of the wolf continues.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: There you have it [laughter]. Imagine being in
the woods and hearing that sound on the [indiscernible] of all those
pups howling. Probably if you get out a lot in the mountains it’s
going to be in your future. I am going to --.
>>: I can’t wait.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: It’s
lucky to hear that. Wolves
they tend to stay away from
the woods consider yourself
really a special experience. You would be
are extremely smart, and they are shy and
people. So if you do hear a wolf howl in
very lucky and generally pretty safe.
So I am going to go back to pull up a map. So in that, oops,
last part of the video you saw a map that showed five packs.
since then just since this video aired in April we are now up
So wolves are coming back at a rate I just never dreamed they
recovering this quickly.
in that
Well
to eight.
would be
But it’s not really a huge surprise because wolves are extremely
[indiscernible]. They really need a couple of things to survive:
habitat, food and not to be killed.
>>: So are these wolves that are moving into the state or is this just
the breeding that occurring within the state?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: I think it’s a bit of both. We have got wolves
that are coming into the state from Idaho and from British Columbia.
And once those packs are established and they have had a chance to have
successfully consecutive years of litters individuals from those pack
then go on to find new territory.
For example we know that one of the members of the Teanaway pack took
an incredible journey, 500 miles north, actually went back up into
Canada into [indiscernible], but unfortunately it was killed when she
got caught on a ranch trying to attack some pigs I guess.
So her story wasn’t a good one, but that just shows how wide ranging
these animals are. And that they are unpredictable and they can move
in either direction for hundreds of miles. So it’s very likely that
wolves here in the Cascades could be moving down into the Oregon
Cascades over the next five to ten years or even further south into
California.
>>: Is it illegal to kill them?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: It is illegal to kill them currently under, they
are protected under the endangered species act in the western twothirds of the state. It’s a little complicated because the eastern
two-thirds of our state is considered part of the Rockies population,
which as you may know is no longer protected by the endangered species
act.
But they are still protected by the states. They are considered
endangered, although the state can also remove problem wolves as we
recently saw with the Wedge pack.
>>: So are you tracking them?
Did she have a device on her?
How did you know she went 500 miles?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: She had a radio collar. So one of the really
important, I will go through what are the main points of our program.
But the first one is really our monitoring program. Conservation
Northwest remains a remote camera program and we put out --. We have
about 50 cameras and we put out cameras out all around the Cascades and
Northeast Washington using volunteers to really try and document what
endangered animals are doing out there. It’s not just wolves, its
grizzlies, wolverines and lynx. We also use them in some of our
[indiscernible] areas to really understand how animals move across the
landscape.
But it was through that program that we actually discovered that we had
a wolf pack; the first known to breed here in the state in 70 years.
And then we work very cooperatively with the Washington Department of
Fish and Wildlife. We share our results. They give us input on where
to put cameras. And they go out and collar wolves. They try and
collar at least a couple individuals from each pack. So then they get
a better sense of how those animals are using the landscape.
I am going to try and pull up that map because that will help you see
where things are at. There, yeah.
>>: Except its not there.
>>: There it goes, it’s there now.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Perfect. That’s going to make things a lot
easier to understand. So as you can see we have got eight packs that
are confirmed. That means we know for sure there are packs. There is
more than one animal. Most of those are in the eastern third. That
line there delineates the eastern third where they are not protected
under the endangered species act.
The rest, there are only two confirmed packs in the Cascades, those two
that were mentioned in the BBC film. And to this day that’s all we
know exist. There might be another pack called the Hozomeen pack up in
the upper Ross Lake area, but we think that pack spends most of it’s
time and probably breeds in BC.
So it’s not necessarily considered, but is an important --. That area
could be an important pathway from which we are getting wolves. And
one thing that’s really interesting about these two packs, the Lookout
pack and the Teanaway pack is that from the DNA analysis their lineage
they are related to BC Coastal wolves which makes them a little bit
different than wolves in the Eastern part of the state and from Idaho
who are more Rockies based.
And this is significant because the coastal wolves look a little
different. They are a little smaller. They are more brownish in
color. They have different habits. They are more salmon eating. It’s
really just fascinating to see how wolves are so adaptable just based
on their habitat. They can live just about anywhere as long as there
is good food and like I said, people don’t kill them. And that’s the
biggest challenge to wolf recovery.
So I mentioned our monitoring program, and the other aspects of our --.
Another, I think the most important aspect of our wolf program is
minimizing conflict with people, keeping wolves out of harms way. And
there are two major places where that can happen. One is conflict with
livestock on ranches or on public land grazing allotments and two with
hunters and sportsman, who are concerned about the impacts that wolves
will have on deer and elk.
So to address, you know Conservation Northwest is putting a lot of
energy into helping ranchers cope with having wolves back on the
landscape. Because it, unlike other animals, having wolves like other
predators, it’s different. Wolves behave a lot more differently around
livestock.
But the key is getting engaged early and basically wolves are
observational learners. If they learn from the beginning that
livestock aren’t good prey and every time I try and attack livestock
bad things happen, they will quickly start avoiding them.
But if you have the opposite where they learn this is really easy prey,
they are right there, I can pick them off, nothing is going to happen
and it’s easy food for my family then they will start learning. And
that behavior will spread throughout the pack and maybe even to other
packs.
It’s interesting I had a really interesting conversation just yesterday
with Doug Smith who is a biologist from Yellowstone National Parka and
he was really involved in the re-introduction of wolves to Yellowstone.
And he told me that wolves there did not necessarily know to prey on
Bison, which was a learned behavior. They learned that through
experimentation, trial and error. And now Bison is a big part of the
prey base for Yellowstone wolves. But it wasn’t necessarily in the
beginning.
So the importance of maintaining --. You know to prevent those
conflicts with livestock it’s critical that you maintain a presence
around the livestock. And this might mean going back to some older
methods of animal husbandry, having a cowboy out on the range at all
times. Who really keeps track of the livestock, moves them around,
keeps them in larger groups so they behave more like natural prey.
The second most important thing is to remove carcasses off the
landscape. If you have a dead cow killed for whatever reason, that it
not stay there and become an attractant that will draw in predators and
start to give them the taste for beef.
So those are just two really, they sound really simple, but trying to
make that work can often mean big changes in business plans for
ranches. It means hiring new staff. It can be very labor intensive.
So we have really committed to helping figure out how to make this work
on the ground. We have got a range rider pilot program. We just
launched this summer with a rancher that we have partnered with on some
other conservation projects that Paul will tell you about and so far it
looks like it has paid off. Our investment has paid off.
The rancher has seen some improvement in his herd this summer. He has
got a herd that grazes in the same area as that Smackout pack that you
see up on the map. And it’s, we are still waiting for the final
results because he just got his cows off the mountain, but so far it’s
looking like it was an investment worth making. And what we would like
to do is spread that program, take it from being a pilot and engage
more ranchers in that area so we start to have a network of like almost
a cooperative of ranchers, maybe using a few range riders together to
patrol those areas.
We are also exploring the idea of partnering with the Washington
Department of Transportation to develop a carcass removal program where
we could pay someone under contract to --. There would be a hotline.
You have got a dead cow and it needs to get picked up, you call and
someone will come by, pick it up and take it to a processing area. So
those are just a couple of the things that we are trying there to help
ranchers adapt to having wolves on the landscape again.
And of course just general education is always key. We are organizing
a series of events and workshops for not just ranchers, but for general
members of the public. As I mentioned we are showing Land of The Lost
Wolves November 1st and that’s key because there are so many
misconceptions around wolves. I have never seen an issue be so
polarized and so divisive where you have got really exaggerations
sometimes on both sides about wolves and what they are capable of. And
when you can bring facts to the table and talk about what wolves really
do and how they really behave you find the conversation becomes a lot
easier to have. So that’s critical. And we will be doing a lot of
that over the next few years I imagine.
And then lastly the poaching issue. As we saw that was a big setback
to wolf recovery in the Cascades. And it still is to this day. I am
convinced that if that poaching had not happened we would probably have
three or four packs right now in the Cascades.
So how do we prevent that from happening? You know I think the best
way is peer pressure, honestly. It’s to get the word out there that no
matter how you feel about wolves, killing an animal illegally is still
poaching. No matter how you feel about it and getting that word out
there among sportsman.
We also have developed a 10,000 reward fund that would go towards any
information leading to the arrest of someone who has killed any
endangered species. So it could be grizzly bears, it could be a
wolverine or wolves.
And also, we also have a reward fund for any spree killing. I don’t
know if you have heard about this trend, but spree killing of deer and
elk. It’s really a disturbing new trend. It’s were people go out with
spotlights, they will find a group of deer and elk and then just take
them all out and leave the bodies to rot. It’s almost like killing for
fun or sport. And it’s usually younger guys that are involved in it.
But we are really starting to see a few cases of this around the
states. So we have partnered with the Department of Fish and Wildlife
to really try and put a stop to it. And there was a recent case we put
and we have put out a 2,500 reward for it that just happened outside
Spokane. So it’s just building an ethic and a respect for wildlife and
wildlife laws.
So those I would say are the three main components of our program, well
four if you include the camera program. And you know if you have been
following at all what happened with the Wedge pack. You can see that
it’s going to be a challenging road ahead. This can be an emotional
issue. It can be really difficult issues to grapple with, even for us
as an organization. I would say the decision to remove the Wedge pack
was one of the hardest decisions we have had to grapple with as an
organization in our twenty plus years of doing wild life conservation
work.
But, you know, we talked to a lot of experts who said when you have got
problem wolves, you have got to nip that in the bud. You can’t let
that behavior continue and allow other wolves to learn that. And
that’s one of the, I think most difficult things about wolf recovery;
accepting that for the population as a whole to succeed that some
wolves are going to have to be killed in the process. But on the
whole, wolf recovery is looking really bright in Washington State.
And if we can get these tools in place I think we can be a model for
the rest of the nation to show we can have wolves back and we can do it
in a way where people are working together in a cooperative way and
bringing solutions to the table. We want to avoid a situation like
Idaho and Montana where people are at each others throats over this
issue. And I think we are on the right track. The key is going to be
getting the right resources in place early enough, ahead of time, to
prevent problems from happening.
>>: Would you talk a little bit more about the Wedge pack, because I
would like to understand better the decision that the group took to
support what ended up basically wiping them all out except for one, I
think, right, which was not killed?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Yeah, I don’t even know --.
>>: That one guy up there, as best I could tell, who is the opponent to
this, couldn’t even tell you how many, you know livestock allegedly
were killed grazing on partly public land. And so I don’t know that
there was ever anything that was established that the wolves actually
killed that number of livestock, that they really were problem wolves.
So I would just like to understand how you came to that decision?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Sure, yeah, that’s a really hard --. I could
spend half an hour on this topic, but to really boil it down you had a
rancher who made this whole process very difficult because he had been
outspoken in the media against wolves, but that didn’t change the fact
that there were repeated, reported depredations that were investigated
by WDFW staff and by the local sheriffs.
And in the beginning when we were first looking at some of these
depredation reports the evidence was not very clear. Some of them were
probably wolves. Some of them were, some of the reports were
classified as confirmed, but when we, when the department took them to
outside experts they couldn’t agree. They said, “Well these don’t look
characteristic of wolves”. There wasn’t any kind of smoking gun that
really pointed to wolves as being the problem. So our message at that
point to the department was, “Whoa, you are going too fast, slow down,
let’s get better information, let’s figure out what’s really going on
and let’s try and address the problem”.
So as weeks went on more and more incidents were being reported. And
as the summer went on the department did try a few things. They hired
someone from the US Fish and Wildlife Services to just go and camp out
and haze the wolves away from cattle. Unfortunately they didn’t have
much success with that.
The rancher says that he --.
>>: Did they stop the wolves that they didn’t scare?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: They had like rubber bullets and hazing
equipment. They had the collar information. They were trying to catch
wolves around the livestock, chase them off with rubber bullets. But I
don’t think they every caught the wolves in the act of attacking
livestock to make that effective.
And then so, and then the rancher claimed he hired an extra cow hand to
go out and haze wolves. And you know I wasn’t having direct
conversations, but claiming he was out there at least everyday or every
other day checking on his cattle.
So then as the summer went on the depredations increased and more of
them looked like classic wolf depredation. And the scientists that we
rely on, I especially work closely with a fellow named Carter Niemeyer
who wrote a book called Wolfer. It’s excellent if you are ever
interested in a good read. He said, “Nope, this is looking like wolves
are attacking cattle”. They were following the cattle down from public
land onto private ranch and they were finding dead cattle there as
well.
So what you see is a pack that developed overtime into a pretty big
problem. At that point you had a pack that was pretty trained on
eating cattle as an easy source of prey. And what the experts we
talked to said is DFW is a really hard spot, the only real option they
have at this point is to remove the pack, because re-training them is
really not a viable option at this point, trying to move them off of
the cattle.
again.
And come spring you are going to have the same problems
So this had a potential to become even worse of an issue than it had
grown into be. But our big concern throughout it was those non-lethal
methods. And we gave the department and the rancher a little more; I
guess the benefit of the doubt in this situation. Since we are all
kind of new at this in terms of dealing with wolves on the landscape,
in terms of what had been tried and had non-lethal methods been
exhausted.
But in the future a really important part of our lessons learned
throughout this whole process is that we really need, we really need
clear enforceable standards of what it means to try non-lethal options.
And that’s one aspect of our wolf plan that was kind of exposed that
needs work. And it needs a lot of improvement.
So we are now working with the department pretty closely on trying to
really define what that means to exhaust non-lethal options. How far
do you go? When do you say we have tried everything?
>>: How many people have to say?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: And who has to say. We are shooting around an
idea of maybe a stakeholder panel or a panel of experts that we can go
to, kind of an independent third party. But yeah, this was a really
horrible unfortunate situation that kind of involved into a worse case
scenario that we are really hoping we do not have to see again on the
landscape.
>>: [indiscernible].
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Well I think for so many years ranchers just
have not had to live with wolves on the landscape. This is really,
literally a new thing, just in the last few years. And the typical
model is you turn your cattle out in spring and in some cases they are
in pretty mountainous terrain, so they don’t stay in large groups.
They might just spread out over an allotment that might be 10,000
acres, huge.
And they are hard to fund, but then towards, you might go check on them
a few times throughout the summer and then at the end of the summer you
gather and you say, “Okay, how did I do”? That type of management is
just not going to work anymore. That’s if, if you want to be
successful in the cattle business that’s going to change.
And I think that a lot of folks are recognizing that, but it’s just
going to take time. It’s not something that can be done overnight. I
spent a lot of time in Alberta and Montana and was able to see where it
is being done right. And there are a lot of positive examples out
there, but to emulate them and to develop those models here in
Washington, it’s going to take trust building, cooperation and a lot of
resources frankly.
Paul? Oh, sorry I was going to say on time --.
>>: Into the difficult decision we had to make. Can you note a few
notes of Mitch’s recent testimony and thus the benefits that may come
from that tough decision?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Yeah, so we went to the Department of Fish and
Wildlife commission on October 5 and we went there to testify. And we
made really clear that you know I think it’s important for
conservationists to acknowledge that living with wolves, particularly
for ranchers can be challenging. Now it doesn’t benefit us to not
acknowledge that and not to try and help address the issue.
So, you know that’s where we are starting from, but as I mentioned the
importance of a good faith effort to try and really try these nonlethal methods has to be there; both from the department and from the
rancher. So Mitch in front of the wildlife commission said, “We will
never again support removing a pack unless it’s clearly demonstrated
you do a better job of showing the public that you truly have exhausted
non-lethal methods”.
Because at this stage it was really hard for the public who is tracking
this to really evaluate what was happening out there. I know that it’s
false to say nothing was done because things had been done, but the
question is was what was done effective and could more have been done?
We don’t want to be going into situations like this still having
questions like that out there.
The woman in the back and the fellow in the green.
>>: So just a question on the sustainability of, because right now you
are putting a lot of resources in, you are I don’t know funding these
ranch riders, or what?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Yes, we are doing a cost share with the state.
The state has a budget and probably will for the next, during the
recovery period. But the trajectory has to be where less and less
conservation groups and the state are paying for it. And ranchers are
able to build a sustainable model, do kind of a cost share. And what
Alberta found was there was a cooperative of about 40 ranchers who
share the cost of a range rider.
>>: And they just stay with the pack sort of?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: They stay with the herds and go check the herds,
everyday.
>>: And they just rotate?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: They rotate around.
>>: And obviously these ranchers are quite happy to have them also and
it just sounds like in some cases people are so negative. What’s the
incentive for them if the funding goes, why would they want to sustain
what they are paying?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Financial.
>>: So it is that you just have to keep financially --.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Solve it. Yeah, I mean at the end of the day
even if you don’t believe in non-lethal methods or you think that
killing wolves is really the only option first of all it’s really hard
to do. You need the resources of the government to do it. You need
someone who can track them down, find them, you know hunt them down;
it’s a terribly expensive venture. And I am sure the department spent
a lot of money doing that with the wedge pack.
And that’s not going to be an option down the road. And so even if you
did I guarantee you in less than two years there are going to be a new
pack there, in the wedge pack. It’s a great habitat for wolves. So at
the end of the day you can’t just keep repeating that. It’s like
hitting your head against the wall. You have got to shield your
livestock from being prey in the first place. And that’s going to be a
better pay off.
And we are seeing with some of these non-lethal methods they are
actually, there are other benefits. They improve the quality of the
grass and the forage. And those wolves are not only coming back, they
are coming back with better weights. So that hopefully provides some
financial incentive to invest in these methods, because at the end of
the day your bottom line will improve.
>>: So after the wedge pack was decimated did the predation on the
cattle stop?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: As far as I know it did stop, yeah.
>>: And also I am curious about the ranchers using the public land.
Obvious it’s a real cut and dry issue when it’s on private land, but
when it’s on public lands isn’t there a little give and take that needs
to happen?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Absolutely. That’s a really important point and
we actually had long conversations about this during the development of
the wolf management plan. The public lands belong to everyone in this
room, everyone in this state and everyone in the country. And
overwhelmingly the public values wild life, it’s clear. That’s a
really important public value. So people who use public lands need to
respect that and work to protect the resources that are there.
That’s a given, so there is a higher standard for public lands than
private lands in terms of how wolves should be managed. And at to what
point do you remove a native species from its native habitat for an
economic benefit? And so that’s a really important question and it
comes down to a --. You know I think at the end of the day it comes
down to the public reminding users of public lands that they are there
and they are watching. That component is very important.
>>: Do the ranchers pay for the cattle to graze on public land?
they lease?
Do
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Yes, they have leases, right they have leases
and permits that they --. Like for example, this rancher has been
using this allotment for about 100 years. So it’s been passed down
through the family. They have been there quite a long time. It’s a
tradition. It’s valued by the community, so no matter how you feel
about ranching it, there is a perspective out there that it is an
important part of the community’s heritage and history.
>>: Just a thought, I mean I know you said it was expensive and I am
sure that it was, and I don’t know if you have considered doing some
sort of [indiscernible] request to find out what the cost was to track
down was and kill them. But it just struck me that most people who run
small businesses don’t get to call the government and say, “Please come
pay for this for me”.
And like you said there is going to be a wolf pack there and this guy
is going to be a problem again most likely based on what I read. Why
doesn’t he have to buy some sort of insurance or something, you know,
like the rest of the world?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: It’s a great question. It’s a great question.
I have actually been looking into the insurance issue and seeing if
there is something like that. I mean what, I can imagine if the
rancher was here what he would say is, and my losses are so great that
it wouldn’t cover it. It’s like 50 --.
>>: [inaudible] and so that’s just sort of an [inaudible] position that
you are going to be arguing again.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Yeah and there are also public media statements
and then there is reality on the ground when you are actually able to
sit down and talk to someone and work with them. So I wouldn’t
necessarily take that as a formal position. Are we running out of
time?
>> Rich Draves: Well we are, but how many people have to leave
immediately after this program? Okay, a couple of people. Than what
we will do is one thing, Jasmine, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t
this put a lot of pressure on the rancher because of the pressure that
will come from the Cattlemen's Association as a result of us having in
one valid case taking care of it? But we have made a statement we will
never do it again. Is that rancher sort of feeling that peer pressure?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: I am sure; you know I think that’s the strategy
I think that over long-term is going to pay off. If we can as a
community come together and identify solutions that work that’s going
to be the most powerful thing to make change on the landscape, is
seeing it in action and seeing it work. There is nothing better than
seeing evidence right in front of your face. And so if we can build
off of the success of our pilot this year and expand it to include a
few more ranchers in the community pretty soon people are going to
notice and say, “Hey, my neighbor over here, he is not having problems
and what he is doing, maybe it is worth the try”.
And that’s how this is going to expand over time. So yes, that’s
probably the most effective thing we can do. Is having small successes
and building out from them.
>> Rich Draves: Thank’s Jasmine. Jasmine we are really lucky to have
here. When BBC wanted to do this program on wolves in the Northwest
they picked Jasmine to be the person to represent the issue. Thank you
for coming down and joining us today.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: It’s my pleasure.
Thank you guys.
[clapping]
>> Paul Bannick: So I am going to take just a couple of minutes and
skim through quickly get to the heart of why I wanted to speak. And
that’s that for 20 years we have been connecting the broad habitats of
the Northwest. All of this work is based on the science. We study
what core habitats each of 18 critical species, indicator species, use
and then what areas they use to migrate, the young to disperse, for the
individual animals to find mates and then when we overlap those ranges
we come up with a map of the priority habitats to protect in the
Northwest.
And if you can get me to that key map, the Columbia Highlands map.
And what we are faced with right now --.
And I will have you move me to the next one.
Right now we have been focused for the last 10 years on trying to
connect the Cascades and the Rockies through this region, the Columbia
Highlands. At the same time we have been doing that we have been
working at that interface between the Columbia Highlands and the
Cascades to try and handle conservation easements. To make sure that
once we protect that Northeastern part of the state wild life can move
that last little distance over to the Rockies.
If you want to go ahead and exit me out.
Our science, let’s see I talked about the 18 species, here’s the map
for the lynx. Here is how lynx move between the Cascades and the
Rockies. Every species has a map like this. You recognize that little
bottleneck. That little bottleneck has to be preserved or lynx
populations will not be able to supplement from the Rockies. They will
essentially be cut off.
And you will see a similar map for wolverines.
map for other species.
The next one?
You will see a similar
Oops.
And so what we are trying to do, we have been working on the public
lands with our Columbia Highlands initiative. And at the moment that
is on wheels, it’s ready to go, but the political climate is not
allowing us to move that wilderness over the finish line. So while
that is delayed we are working on the private lands. And we have been
working for the last couple of years to raise a million and a half
dollars to be matched by some federal monies to put conservation
easements on a couple of key ranches that are going to build upon that
connectivity.
The most critical piece right now is represented by those little red
shapes right up there. That’s the [indiscernible] ranch. And if you
look over here in the dark green area and you need to get over to this
light green area the most direct way is to move across that little red
area. That red area is about four square miles of the [indiscernible]
ranch. The [indiscernible] came to us and told us that if they weren’t
able to raise money they were going to have to either subdivide or take
advantage of deep mineral rights on the property.
This is the critical land that connects the cattle range to the most
important funnel landscape, landscape funnel for wild life bringing
them into the Cascades. So we went to work and we have been raising
money on that. We have raised as of today we have commitments that
will take us to about a million of that 1.4 million dollar goal. I am
here today asking those of you who support the organization to consider
giving a little more this year to help us meet that goal.
Today I learned about a 75k match that’s in place from a generous donor
within 75k that we raise from our supporters towards this campaign that
will be matched. You have also got the federal funds matching to help
us make this go for more. So your money, a thousand dollars is going
to basically buy about an acre, a little more than an acre of prime
connectivity land.
It’s a critical piece and the opportunity is today because this land
just north of the bordering Canada, that’s the Riviera for Canada.
That’s the sunniest part of Canada. Land prices are a little cheaper
on the US side. That land has some demand. If we don’t preserve that
chunk there is a risk of it being subdivided. So we feel like with the
economy relatively down right now here is our best opportunity. And
our option on creating that lease runs out in the next month or two.
So consider that this year during the giving campaign that you may want
to put a gift towards the Columbia Highlands initiative. The wolves
have been really exciting, but what the wolves have also verified is
the importance of this part of the state. Jasmine pointed out that we
had what, seven confirmed packs on that map.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: Six now.
>> Paul Bannick: Yeah, six. There are a few more that we have heard
rumors of, the majority of those are in this Columbia Highlands region.
And although wolves are a little more adaptive we are not surprised
that a lot of the packs are showing right on the connectivity path for
the other animals. So consider the Columbia Highlands initiative this
year.
Those of you who haven’t signed
e-mail addresses and see if you
raise and awareness on campus.
opportunity to give us input on
in we would love to have your names and
might want to get involved with us and
Those of you who are involved have the
how to make our work more effective.
Any questions before I let everyone go?
>>: Well I was just going to say I did go last weekend to the Gold
Creek planting of [indiscernible] and you can see under I-90 the
pathway that’s going underneath I-90 to connect the animals and stuff.
It’s just really neat. It’s just, you don’t think about I-90 and how
it goes across the whole mountain range and animals can’t get back and
forth. And how many animals die on I-90 because they can’t cross back
and forth.
>> Paul Bannick: And thanks for that reminder. Had we had more time I
would have shown you a few more slides, but we did the checkerboard
project to connect the North and South Cascades and then to make that
more effective we are doing overpasses and underpasses on I-90 so
wildlife will be able to travel that distance. We are also working on
some overpasses and underpasses that I am probably not at the liberty
to talk about in a recorded presentation. But we have a grand plan for
the state of Washington to keep the most important habitats vital by
connecting them to a larger hole.
>>: Do you have partner groups that you work with to help fund these
things? Like major [indiscernible] and some other things like that?
>> Paul Bannick: Yeah, George that’s a great question. Do we have
partner groups? We have lots of partner groups, but they don’t help
fund. They do help in --. We are very flexible in working with
different partners and different efforts. Jasmine has certain partners
with the wolves’ issue. We have certain partners with [indiscernible].
We work land trust that end up holding those leases, but we will help
raise the money and then hand the lease over to them. But, raising the
money for that is up to us.
>>: Are there partners in British Columbia?
>> Paul Bannick: We are working with, particularly first nations in
British Columbia for some of the cost range to Cascades connectivity.
That’s a very important partner. And there are other groups, there is
a number of groups that came together to protect how many million acres
a couple of years ago in the [indiscernible] rainforest?
>> Jasmine Minbashian: 2 or 4?
>> Paul Bannick: A few million acres of land were protected because of
an effort of I think six or seven groups coming together. We very much
want to work with partners, both traditional and non-traditional
partners. Part of our success in the Northeastern part of the state
rests upon the assumption that we can partner with Timber and we can
partner with recreation and we can partner with some of the ranchers to
come up with solutions that will help people stay. Keep the rural
lifestyle, stay on the land, but also protect the habitat for wildlife.
>>: And how many are in a pack, like 10?
>> Paul Bannick: Jasmine, how many wolves in a pack?
>> Jasmine Minbashian:
be a pack, but yeah it
really big, 20. But I
just given the terrain
>>: [indiscernible].
>>: Exactly.
>>: What?
Well technically it just requires two wolves to
averages anywhere from 4 to 12. Some packs are
think in Washington the packs will be smaller,
and the habitat.
>> Jasmine Minbashian: I think in Washington the packs will be a little
bit smaller.
>>: Oh. It just seems they are an endangered species to me.
couldn’t imagine anyone killing them.
I
>> Paul Bannick: Yeah, one of the exciting things in Washington that
Jasmine alluded to, but you know as a wild life photographer excites me
is that in Washington State we are blessed to have both rocky wolves
and coastal wolves. So you can have those grey big shaggy wolves in
the Rockies and then you can have those brown cleaver mysterious wolves
from the coast coming together in our state, coming together in the
central part of our state. That’s pretty neat.
>>: And then the assumption is that they will inner breed.
>> Paul Bannick:
of just thinking
a wolf. Now you
to see a Rockies
They will inner breed. But its fun from a standpoint
it’s going to be exciting enough to think you can see
can think, now I have seen a coastal wolf, now I want
wolf in our state.
Any other questions?
Well thank you everybody for your support and for coming today. We
would love to capture your name and your e-mail address. And please
consider us this year in the giving campaign.
>>: I actually do have one quick question. So you talked earlier about
this year contributing to that specific campaign. Is there something
in particular you need to do in the campaign to do that?
>> Paul Bannick: Yeah, what I am asking, thanks’ for the question Rob.
What I am asking this year is that if you are already supporting us
please consider supporting us at that same level, but consider an
additional gift that you target to Columbia Highlands, or you can
target Capitol Campaign. We will know in either case what that is.
And there are several members here who help us on campus. You can all
raise your hands, Rich and Rob and Shauna and Ted, all who are helping
raise awareness on campus. Reaching out to different buildings on
campus, helping come up with different ideas of how we expand the reach
and make more people aware of our work. And if that’s something that
you want to get involved in let us know.
>>: [inaudible].
>> Paul Bannick: Great question. Does a contribution to the Highlands
initiative have to be a lump sum or can it be a payroll deduction? It
can be payroll and we can do it over two to three years as well. The
main thing is that we have the commitment of an amount because then we
are able to use that to pay off our loan.
Great, thanks’ everyone for coming.
[clapping]