Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Thoughts on the 802.1AM PAR
Date: 2005-09-19
Authors:
Name
Company
Address
Darwin Engwer
Nortel
4655 Great America +1-408-495Pkwy, Santa Clara
7099
CA 95054
Phone
email
dengwer@nortel.com
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Submission
Slide 1
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Abstract
“I've flown from one side of the network to the other. I've
seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything
to make me believe there's one all-powerful force that
can control everything.”
Submission
Slide 2
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
The management field is very broad
• A: not clear whether 802.1AM will address over-the-air
mgmt or over-the-backhaul network mgmt, or both
– poor scope definition in in the 802.1AM PAR
• B: Technical feasibility is greatly in question
Submission
Slide 3
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Quotes from the 802.1AM PAR, part 1
• 13. Scope of Proposed Project:
“This standard specifies managed objects to support
Radio Frequency (RF) management across IEEE 802
wireless Media Access Control (MAC) layers.”
• 14. Purpose of Proposed Project:
“There is currently no defined, common method for RF
management or statistics reporting across IEEE 802
wireless MACs. Each working group has created
separate definitions for receive signal quality, transmit
power, channel numbers, etc. This effort provides
enhancements for a consistent management service
interface across all 802 wireless standards.”
Submission
Slide 4
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Quotes from the 802.1AM PAR, part 2
• 15. Reason for the Proposed Project:
“There is a market need for RF management, given the
widespread use of incompatible wireless 802 networks
operating in the same frequencies. The ability to
control channel selection and adjust transmit power, or
view RF characteristics in a consistent way does not
exist today. Common management is essential to the
long term viability of a heterogeneous LAN.”
Submission
Slide 5
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Quotes from the 802.1AM PAR, part 3
• 17. Are there other documents or projects with a
similar scope? No
“While IEEE 802.11v intends to provide amendments
to the IEEE 802.11 PHY/MAC layers to enable
management of attached stations and IEEE 802.16f
intends to provide enhancements to IEEE Standard
802.16-2004 to define a SMIv2 management
information base (MIB) module, there is currently no
document or project whose aim is to define a common
set of managed objects applicable to all IEEE 802
wireless PHY/MAC layers, including IEEE 802.11,
802.15.1, 802.15.3, 802.15.4, 802.16, 802.20, and
802.22.”
Submission
Slide 6
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
802.1AM Technical Feasibility
• over-the-air management
• over-the-backhaul network management
Submission
Slide 7
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
over-the-air "management”
• there is no common framework for over-the-air
"management" between different RF technologies
(within 802.11 let alone within 802)
• it is not viable bcus the devices operate in difference
frequency bands using different modulation types and
no single radio can (simultaneously) operate across all
those bands/ modulation types.
• perhaps a SDR could perhaps do something in this
regard by altering it's operational mode over time. But
doing so on the fly is [today] impossible.
– needs to be real-time to address temporal aspects of management
Submission
Slide 8
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
over-the-air "management” (cont’d)
• well, unless you have a universal wideband transceiver.
• maybe this is a "subspace" communication [vs. today’s
"ether" space communications], which we don't know
how to do today
– subspace communication would need to occur outside space and
time; currently that is only science fiction
• hence my updated position is not that over-the-air
"management” is impossible, but that the fundamental
support technologies required to make it work don't yet
exist.
Submission
Slide 9
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
over-the-backhaul network management
• there is no common framework for over-the-backhaul
network management between different types of RF
networks
• the backhaul networks are different types, and are not
interconnected
• even if they were interconnected they are likely in
different administrative domains
– e.g. the hotel network is isolated from the 802 meeting net
• even if not isolated; which network has higher
authority?
– e.g. hotel net does what our network tells it to do or vice versa?
Submission
Slide 10
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
over-the-backhaul network management
(cont’d)
• further, some RF network types have no backhaul
component at all (e.g. 802.15 and 802.11 IBSS/ ad hoc
networks)
Submission
Slide 11
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Summary
• 802.1AM feasibility remains in question
– this is not addressed by the 802.1AM PAR
– not yet responded to by 802.1
– therefore the question remains open
• could be addressed by a supporting document if space in the PAR
document is unduly constrained
• Value proposition is also unclear
– i.e. what is the value or benefit vs. the required effort?
Submission
Slide 12
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
Submission
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Slide 13
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
Submission
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Slide 14
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
Q &A
• Q: Is there a useful partial solution?
– ans: solving part of the problem essentially doesn't solve the
problem, since RF is a shared medium
– a partial solution would be like arranging things so you can be
partially not pregnant
• I'm an optimist so I won't say that's impossible
• but any partial proposal should indicate how it will avoid
the "9 month surprise"
• Q: Couldn’t we start with center frequency, power and
bandwidth?
– not likely - even those basic concepts have completely different
meanings, even across the subset of devices operating in the same
spectrum, see [2]
– plus, other than being “cool”, what’s the benefit?
Submission
Slide 15
Darwin Engwer, Nortel
Sept 2005
doc.: IEEE 802.11-05/0940r1
References
•
•
•
•
[1] am-wireless-management-draft-par-0705.doc (802.1)
[2] 11-05-0892-01-0wng-dot1am-work-sizing.xls
[3] 11-05-0907-00-0wng-dot1am-management-plane.ppt
[4] 11-05-0908-00-0wng-dot1am-management-par-5c.doc
Submission
Slide 16
Darwin Engwer, Nortel