Focus Group 4
Me
What is the biggest health problem facing everyone today?
FG48
Poverty.
FG42
Is this specific to the country we’re in?
Me
Good question. I‘d say this country.
FG42
I’d say stress. In this country today I’d say stress is probably the
overriding concern ___ unhealthy lifestyle and lack of money,
decisions about holidays, ___ with friends all contribute to people’s
anxieties, one of the major health issues
FG47
I would agree.
FG48
I would agree as well.
FG45
I would say the health in the situation it is, pretty well good as old
folk because the life expectancy is far greater now than it was when I
was first born. Obviously with the sort of automobiles we’ve got it
creates a lot of bad atmosphere for everybody and I do think that this
one, you’ve got to be, ?I like to see for the future?
Me
So, it’s pollution?
FG45
I think so, yes.
FG46
Yes, I think pollution
FG48
I think pollution is a contributing factor and I think that is linked to
what FG41 saying about poverty. I think in particularly about near
me, the dip where the general is, has one of the highest levels of
pollution of lead because of the amount of buses and cars that…
FG47
It can’t get out, its trapped
FG48
It’s like a vale, the vale of York isn’t it. The incidents of asthma in that
area are on the rise, however I don’t think, I think poverty links in
with that because I don’t think that would happen in the other areas
of the city where the housing wouldn’t be as crowded, where the
roads would be much wider where that pollution would be allowed to
get out.
FG41
I think poverty is also in some respect linked to obesity because
people can’t afford a good diet. I think that’s the problem. I mean we
only have to look at America and we seem to follow America. The
obesity problem there is dreadful
FG48
Education as well, yeah, yeah. But it costs as well.
FG46
I don’t think obesity is linked to poverty at all.
FG48
You don’t?
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FG46
No, because you do find a lot of people who are obese at the moment
are people who really can’t afford to be obese and they suddenly
think they can afford it
FG48
I think it’s probably linked to education.
FG41
There’s a cultural issue there as well though isn’t there? Because
certainly in Burngreave where it’s very multi-cultural some of the
African people that are in the area, well and certainly for the Asians,
wealth, well, body fat seems to be seen as a sign of your wealth
FG47
Yeah. Well I lived in Africa for 15 years and they didn’t like anybody
to be thin. What’s wrong what’s wrong with you, what’s wrong with
your wife, don’t you feed your wife, you know. In that respect it is
cultural.
FG41
I think poverty, lack of nourishment ___
FG46
Yes, from my observation, as far as obesity is concerned, I always
think that in 70% of the cases, people just eat too much. In business
there’s something, if you walk along any street in a town where
they’ve got like ___ shops selling fast foods or whatever. And just
have a look at the people who are either approaching or going away
from it. You could almost tell before you actually reach them, who is
going to be eating and who isn’t.
FG45
Some live to eat and others eat to live, but that’s ___
FG47
Yeah, I think it is the wrong type of food as well, because fruit and
certain vegetables are more expensive and not as filling. Bread and
potatoes and rice, everything like that is filling but their being
carbohydrates
FG48
Think where the poverty links with the stress in a way because today,
the pressure of today is clearly a stress pressures we have is all about
living faster, living life at a different rate, so you don’t take time to sit
down and put the duchy in the oven. What you actually do is you go
down the fast food and what they are offering is full of fat and so as
well as its being educative and educational issue it is also a lifestyle
issue, people don’t take…
FG47
Its a time issue as well, they haven’t time
FG41
Also a knowledge issue because people don’t know how to cook. I
work with intelligent people who don’t know cook properly
FG46
Don’t ?think? you can link pressure with obesity, because you couldn’t
find people under more pressure than people who were in the last war
and there wasn’t so much obesity during the war and even if they
were there was no…
FG47
More exercise.
FG46
And those people were under pressure.
FG48
Yeah, they weren’t the processed foods and everything and the high
fat content and the high sugar content that there are now. It is the
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processed food
FG46
Well in that case you can say that this obesity is caused by people
eating either too much or eating the wrong foods, but I wouldn’t put it
down to pressure
FG42
We’re eating ___ this additives to food, storing up shelf life and all
this sort of thing ___ effect on health
Right excellent. That was just the first question. It’s going to be
specific, you talked about the health problems there. What do you
think the Government could do to improve the health of the public?
What could the Government do?
FG42
Think it’s difficult that one, there are a lot of things they could do but
there’s accusations of nanny state and take control of something that
you are, what I feel, directly responsible for. But I think from the
stress angle, where that stress constantly for me, personally it’s work,
lack of time I’m able to exercise or take time out to shop properly or
cook properly, whatever it might be, convenience like you say, just
recommend Kentucky Fried Chicken. And so looking at the working
life and how many hours you work in the day, and have less hours,
not just because, you know, I can clear off earlier, so I can have time
to do the things that are important for health, because at the moment
I spend most of my time to and from work and any exercise I do is an
inconvenience to because I really got to put the effort to try and fit
that in somehow, so I think I’d look at re-structuring the working
hours, the working day
FG48
When I was young, most people it’s a 9 to 5 job and people knew
from 5, you got home at 6 o’clock the rest of the evening, now I can
see from my own sons working, one of them in London oh, 7 or 8
o’clock, there are no working hours now, you try and compete with
the man in the next room to you to get more business or do more.
FG42
And working shifts as well ___
FG43
I think one of the things the Government can do in the problems of
this sort is to add health matters to the curriculum, because it’s vitally
important to teach children about health. I mean, could link that to
the school dinners thing which is quite appropriate to this discussion
we had on the Jamie Oliver thing,
that’s something, that the
Government have taken control of over the years, how the food
younger kids, it’s appalling.
FG41
I agree that the curriculum needs to have a health education section
in it about looking after your body and how that actually works
because not everyone’s taught it and it’s my experience that as soon
as the war was over that a lot of convenience foods came in and
because people had had such hardship, with the work and ?with the
elderly?, then the convenience foods, and we were all, people wanted
some freedom. So that’s when people, certainly this woman I have
been working with, started using convenience foods and that was
passed on to their kids. The convenience element of it. Not the fact
that went out and you bought fresh vegetables and you did that, so in
fact that’s been lost not through anybodies fault and I don’t think it is
specific aim of anyone, I think it’s just lost, and so people, there are a
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lot of people who don’t know how to cook.
Yes (several)
FG?
From scratch and I would like to see that on the curriculum for that
reason
FG?
Yes (several)
FG45
Ready steady cook.
FG41
Could have it in schools!
FG41
I remember when I was at school as well, games and like things, if
you want to see something like music then you did games so it
always seen as a nice extra, and it would be cut out if it needed to be,
that should be one hour a week or something to be honest as well, it’s
not going ___+
FG43
Think there is a lot the Government can do because, I think it is in
Sweden, I might be wrong, but there was a whole city or a village
that had a high incidence of heart problems and the whole village had
lessons and the shops stocked the right food and that was a whole
Government intervention programme with one sort of pilot. So I think
that that could work. You know because they actually bought into it.
It started in a small area of an area of the city or town and other
people saw it working and saw it working through the schools,
through the GPs, through a whole lot of the agencies and then the
rest of the city or village or whatever said well we want some of that
so it expanded and I think that the Government could do something
like that and I would love to see the Government do something about
working hours but I actually think that that is up to the businesses,
really.
FG42
Well, the local authorities ___
FG43
Yeah, individually
FG46
I think possibly the government should come down harder on food
manufacturers ___
FG45
Well myself, I think the Government is trying to do things for the
people because one of the things what we must do is to exercise and
this is where they have different programmes and it comes over the
television as well, where you have got exercise themselves to keep
physically fit and this is what people should do. We’re not talking
about eating all the time I think it should be exercise to keep healthy
FG43
Could the Government give us free access to health clinics then, so
you don’t have to pay to join the gym. Because that’s the poverty
element coming in there ___ Government sponsored gyms.
FG45
That would be a good idea to do. Yes. But its up to the individual.
FG43
Yeah. You get the nanny state coming in then don’t you, “you have
got to exercise, you got to this that and the other”. It is up to the
individual. But then its educating individuals. It’s from small children
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that you have just got to start with.
FG48
But then you are bring into that equation, well if someone’s not going
to educate, they going to end up overweight and they are putting a
strain on my dollars and the health authority so it is still whichever
way you look at it there is still, I am not suggesting that you have got
to exercise but if that was there and more affordable and more
accessible and as one of many things that the Government was
enabling us to access that might be better rather than telling us. Take
your exercise ___
FG43
No, no. I wasn’t suggesting that, but always you get these civil rights
people and them saying that you can’t be telling us to do this and you
can’t be telling us to do that.
FG48
I wasn’t suggesting that you did, no
FG47
You get all these civil rights people saying that you can’t be telling us
to do this.
FG48
But I think then, if it did come in and things were available I think it’s
the same people, the people who really needed the help that wouldn’t
follow this like with food and everything, they would just go, it’s the
same section of the population that’s suffering. I mean look at the
Jamie Oliver programme and the parents were shoving the
beefburgers and what not through the school things.
FG42
I watched that “Supersize Me” the other night, I think if the
government banned MacDonalds and chucked them out of the country
I’d have total respect for them, I do see what your saying, other than
___ not being ___
FG47
No, it’s not going to happen
FG48
But why not
FG47
___ tax ___
FG42
I’m mean, I don’t see, they’ve banned smoking from advertising in all
these. I mean five years ago we’d all being having a fag after it all
?
So much they would have to ban though, with MacDonalds
FG42
Ban them all
FG48
Yeah I agree with that, Big Mac
FG42
I don’t think you can sort of nibble at it. You know there has to be a
massive action, I don’t think a little bit of pressure here and there will
change a lot.
FG43
I agree with that advertising thing and I think it is a big contributing
factor and I also agree with, FG44, that the Government should, I
don’t think they are enabling healthy food because they are because
sanctioning or agreeing with GM crops and things. Yeah there are a
lot of little things they could do which would make the whole a lot
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better.
FG41
I think they should ban this advertising particularly on the children’s
channels of food like McDonalds and that. Aimed specifically at small
children they are getting indoctrinated from a very young age.
Me
O.k., that’s good, I’m not having to say much to gee you along. What
I want to do now, I’ve got a potential or possible policy that the
governments could introduce to improve the health of the population
and pass it round I’ll read it out and have a look at it and I just want
to see what you think about it as a possible example.
Folic acid policy…….
FG43
The first thing that came into my head was alright, basically it’s
seems a good idea but then there are so many, I still don’t know
whether it is right or wrong.
FG41
That came into my head as well.
FG42
Think it’s a bit dodgy
FG47
I do.
Me
Why do you think so?
FG47
Well you have got the option to take folic acid. You’re advised to
start taking it before you start trying to have a family or if it’s not a
planned pregnancy you can take it in tablet form. And I look after
people with things like Vitamin B12 deficiency, quite common, so if it
were made more difficult to treat. Not only would it make my, not
only would it make my life more difficult but, it is quite a common
thing especially in the old population
FG43
Vitamin B12 deficiency is, Vitamin B12 is probably one of the greatest
resources that we have, stress, the minute adrenals to kick in and we
start using up the B Vitamins twice as fast. And if it is getting more
difficult to deal with and we have a longer living, elderly, population,
the problem is going to get worse and I don’t agree with adding
anything to food at all
FG41
Yeah, though I don’t think, I don’t think they will be doing anybody
any favours by adding that to food. I know they add to bread already
don’t they, and flour in Sainsbury’s
Me
Some things, some cereals have it as well
FG46
So there’s 180 babies born in the United Kingdom each year, just a
trickle, but why are these babies born like that, why is it that the rest
of the population born without that defect, must be something that
the parents or the, somewhere in the family with something that ___
causes that ___ doesn’t matter what everybody says it must be
something they do, or else that they drink or something they
something that they should have been drinking ___ because if it’s
case of say, you live in a certain area and everybody in that area has
got this complaint, that’s what I understand, tube defect, which I
think, well since it’s only just a small percentage it means that birth
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defect is percentage is it either doing or not person doing it
Me
It is almost impossible to get rid of it. You would have to be eating
broccoli 5 times a day in order to get enough folic acid to try to
eradicate it
FG43
You could take the tablets. But pregnant women could be prescribed
tablets surely?
FG41
They are. And I would be interested to see what percentage of the
180 babies there are, following on from what FG46 said, of the
population of the births everyday anyway.
FG43
The amount of babies born with no defects is tiny compared to years
ago, you hardly anybody with ___ compared to years ago
FG46
A very small percentage. So it is obvious that it’s something that
either the father or mother is deficient because the babies are born
like this ___
FG42
This argument is just, it could be applied to anything though, because
it was the additive side of it and I agree with what you’re saying. I
don’t know anything about all the additives you take nowadays but it
seems that the shelves are stacked with extras you can put into your
diet so maybe we have diet pills and not top it up with all these
?mushrooms and whatever? and adding things to food it always
sounds wrong to me so ___ like organic food maybe there’s
something else ___ to your diet, trying to add something extra to get
rid of this, whatever it might be, so whether it’s this particular
scenario or something else
FG46
It links so closely with commerce because ___ food companies, they
wouldn’t mind if they could put something on that shelf every day of
the week and say well that’s good for that, that’s good for that, they
only thinking about their pockets. As to whether it’s could for what
they say it’s good for or not, they don’t care as long it’s good as
people believe it does and they can sell it and make a profit, that’s
not the truth. They come across something that can do good, they
occasionally come across something that can do good and they want,
the companies that have established something else, and then
something else comes along, they’ll be doing everything in their
power to stop this thing from developing because it’s going to hit their
profits. So it’s, these things that go on the shelf is so closely linked
with commerce. As well I’m not for adding this, adding that, it should
be able to overcome ___ without, well not all of it, but I don’t think
the answer is adding things to, because before these companies came
into being, there was nothing to add to it, nothing for economic ___
things
FG42
Absolutely
Me
You look as though you’re about to say something?
FG48
Well, I think of the babies born that is a very small percentage isn’t
it? I mean it says then that afterwards that it would reduce it by 74
so it’s not going to reduce by a 100 percent is it? And if you look at
the other things that babies are born with, maybe there is something
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else that could go into it. We can’t have all our foods with something
added all the time for different things and you have got to look at the
adverse effects it would have on a large percent of the population.
And when it is something that can be rectified by taking tablets or the
mother herself seeing to this or you know the medical people
informing people that you should be taking folic acid or.
FG43
I think another, we have not touched on but I don’t know whether it
comes into the health thing is, that screening and abortion, is another
way out, cutting down on those kind of things
FG48
That’s probably why there is only 180 born every year because a lot
are aborted. It used to be quite, more common in the 60s and 70s.
Me
I’ll just add one thing, like I said I don’t want to say too much, paint
your view. One of the reasons some people, something you touched
on is that, unplanned pregnancies, you can’t take folic acid preconception and so, what a policy like this tends to do is help poorer
members of the society greater, most of these babies tend to be in
unplanned pregnancies with people with poor diets who haven’t, don’t
get enough folic acid through their diet, so this idea of helping the
disadvantaged, is that not, what is your opinion?
FG48
I mean a lot of these people as well, look at that, you’re helping them
giving them this and they are carrying on taking drugs and smoking
and what not and they’re affecting their babies in another way. You
can’t, that’s just ___
FG43
Not all poor people take drugs
FG48
No I’m not saying that but
FG43
I am poor. I don’t take drugs
FG48
No, no I don’t mean that but we are saying that the poorer members
in society it would help but these unplanned pregnancies, the people
that’s happening to a lot of it is to people on drugs
FG42
Think that’s an educational, apart from just adding things to food it’s
teaching them people about, the hassles of pregnancy, the
requirements of the mother and father and the health issues and
everything else that comes early in your life even if you have children
or not, you can’t add things to food just for those minority that
accidentally become pregnant. Everyone should be educated to know
that children’s…
FG41
Self esteem, as well, built up in the young, so they have goals, don’t
just, think alright well ___
FG42
Well there’s groups like sure-start isn’t there, sort of doing that sort
of thing aren’t they. And that’s where I’d expect ___ having a baby
that’s healthy is only a small, tiny bit of having children.
FG41
And if they diet in schools is taking account of this then it is my
understanding the majority of the unplanned pregnancies are usually,
mostly teenagers, kids leaving school, and they will have a build up
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already throughout their education
FG42
They might be more unhealthy but if they like ___ education
FG46
Why is so much emphasis placed on diet in schools, diet in schools,
diet, millions of child in the day, it’s only one meal out of three so
why is there so much emphasis on schooling, because in school, they
have one meal. The other two that they in the day, would be a
minimum of say two, three meals a day, alright so they get one meal
maybe at school, they get two more at home, or somewhere else, and
they ___ those two, there’s so much of what they shouldn’t be having
in those that it’s just sort of wiped away when they get in school
whether it’s good or bad
FG42
I think the school gives such a controlled environment though that if
they are only eating one decent meal a day that’s the place where
you can actually push it down their throats and say this is the meal
you’re having don’t choose chips or artificial, if they only eat chips
outside of school or don’t have a breakfast, that’s another educational
issue but then if they having a bad meal at school as well, that’s three
bad meals a day. ?One meal’s better than none?.
FG46
What I am saying is that so many people speak about this ___+ but
as it is the school means that they get responsibility for it. The
people will say, oh schools don’t give them proper food, food that
they get in schools school is this is that. Meal that they get in school,
you can’t put whatever ill effect there is on that particular meal
because they get two them somewhere else.
FG43
It is like there’s often a tendency to put responsibility on the schools
for everything.
FG46
Exactly, and not to mention the fact when even when they have the
proper food, what they consider proper food in the kitchen or in the
school, some of them don’t even eat it, they find some other way,
some secret way of getting food into them so that they’re avoiding
what’s there for them
FG42
If you take schools as being the place where you learn about life,
which is what it is, you go to school learn academic subjects and to
play and socialise, and you learn the diet and eating as well and you
have a meal there with friends. If that meals good the chances are
that you might want to eat decently elsewhere. But you eat chips and
stuff like that.
FG46
Chip Buttie.
FG42
That’s what you want, that’s what you enjoy eating, and things at
school is probably an enjoyable time to remember as a kid and if you
can, I am not saying that this is the only place where health is going
to be taught, but it is one way, it’s an extra lesson if you like
FG
That’s good. I’ve got another one, which is the last one, we’ve got
two to discuss. I’ll hand it round, again I’ll read it out. You may have
heard of this one.
9
Smoking ban policy….
FG42
Think as a non smoker it is easier to say definitely but as a smoker
I’m not so sure about how addictive, how frustrating it must be, but I
know in Rotherham they’ve just banned smoking in the bus terminal,
which is a thoroughfare basically and there’s been a lot of fuss about
it, I don’t know if you can do it totally but cutting it back and say ___
just creating a kind of mayhem that ___ and still think personally ___
dispute ___ smoke in a pub but then I don’t personally mind it in
pubs, ___+
FG43
It’s taking place in the Republic of Ireland and it doesn’t seem to
create, an awful lot of people smoked in Ireland, and they have just
accepted it.
FG41
The smoking has reduced there
Yeah, yeah (several)
FG41
There’s something on Radio 4 yesterday, Wetherspoons, the pub
chain, have pledged to ban smoking in all their establishments by May
of next year, I think it is, and in one pub they did it in Liverpool where
they thought they would loose a lot of trade, two of their staff have
given up, stopped smoking and their trade has gone up because
they’re selling more food. As an ex smoker for three years I’ve been
given up, I don’t like going to the pub which are smoky. I still do
because I meet my mates there, but I would have no qualms, I’d love
this, I’d campaign for it
FG43
I think it’s coming, I think they are going to ban smoking, ?have to?
slip away for a little rolly, but I haven’t got a problem with it.
FG46
One of the reasons, the reason they give for trying to get it banned,
I’m not saying it is right or wrong but I am ___+ one of the first
reasons they give why they try to get it banned is because of the
amount of deaths at the moment each year because of smoking.
There are other things that in public which cause just as much harm
or deaths, they do it in public. How many people die on the roads
each year? That’s the public. How many people die from alcohol? So
if they can start banning in public, I’m not saying whether they should
or it’s a good thing or a bad thing but just banning smoking, things
could carry on from there and ban all the other things cause as much
death as smoking, or even things that cause more deaths because
there are more deaths caused from drinking each year than are
caused from smoking. So if you’re going to start on smoking, carry
on and ban all the things that cause death, if that’s your aim start
there.
FG48
I would be worried if they did this with whisky, I’d have a real
problem. I think it is interesting
FG47
I do think it was very interesting how we have come to accept this.
Because it has been brought in gradually and at first, I am not a
smoker any more, I still very occasionally have a fag and still enjoy it
a lot, but it is wonderful I think how we have come to accept it, I feel
sorry for smokers you know they are like pariahs under their
umbrellas having a fag and I’d still like them to able to do that but I
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think if you doing it gradually its something that can be acceptable
and there’s so many benefits that you can see from it I mean agree
that alcohol possibly a bigger killer.
FG43
It’s more socially acceptable.
FG47
It’s not affecting, really it doesn’t affect somebody else is it by sitting
and getting drunk.
FG43
Well, I’m not sure about that given the incidence of violence and wife
beating and I’m not sure I would agree with that
FG47
Generally though, in general
FG43
If it’s smoking you can’t control
FG47
Having a drink in a pub and having a cigarette in the pub.
FG41
But there is also Coventry have banned drinking in public places and
have designated drinking areas, so you could, and didn’t Sheffield do
it a while, did we have a part where you couldn’t take beer into the
peace gardens and drink Was it last? Yeah I thought so. And I think
that’s a great idea as well.
FG?
Can’t control wino’s drinking
FG46
More emphasis should be made, talk about smoking and tobacco, but
there is an issue to be tackled more firmly in schools on smoking
because everything about it is pointed out to the kids, that would
reduce the amount of adults that are smoking because I smoked for
the best part of my life and four years ago I decided I was going to
stop and every time somebody said to me you don’t smoke, why don’t
you smoke, I say look if I knew about smoking what I know now, if I
had known that when I was that age I would not smoke.
FG43
I don’t, I am not so sure about that. All my young friends and
relatives all smoke, it is a social thing. They are not addicted to it or
anything. I don’t know what their ...
FG48
It’s a rebellion thing isn’t it
FG46
No what I saying is if people are made aware at a young age what is
going to happen if they do it
FG43
But they know now.
FG47
But you are aware but you’re so invincible at that age aren’t you
FG48
I think we all smoked at that age didn’t we at 16 or 17, it was the
thing when I was that age and they’re same today
FG47
You can’t imagine it happening to you because you’re young and it’s
just happens to older people and I think as you get older you feel less
invincible don’t you? You see these people who are your age and then
it all comes ___
11
FG41
It’s a long way off isn’t it
FG42
Think smoking has got something to do with the family, parents and
relative smoking, if I went home as a child, mum would smoke
cigarettes, house is full of cigarettes smoke and your parents smoke
then I don’t care if you smoked anyway, our neighbours smoked and
their kids ended up smoking ___+ education of the parents but it’s
difficult to say just the schools should do it, the parents should it or
___ because you turn around and say so you stop smoking
FG48
I do think if the areas where you can do it become more and more
restrictive, they’re not going to be bothered looking out areas where
they can smoke.
FG45
I think it will come anyway to be honest.
FG41
Yeah, I do.
FG47
It agree, it will.
FG42
Wasn’t that long ago you could smoke on the buses at the back, I
remember it, you glorified it
FG?
And in the cinema, in the cinema, you can’t imagine it happening now
can you?
Me
Okay, we have had two different schemes there. But do you see any
similarities between those two, at all?
FG42
Someone is taking the responsibility for banning it, taking the
responsibility away from individuals
FG43
I see one as a cost balancing exercise, so the smoking one, the
government, by making this legislative law makes them, although
they are reducing their income from fags, they might be reducing the
output through the NHS. But they are doing fairly directly. But
whereas this one (folic acid), seems to be, we’re doing it for the good
of you. This seems clear and straight-forward, the smoking one, this
is what’s happening this is what a solution is. This one seems, well
we’re doing this on your behalf, it’s a bit more invidious or insidious.
This one’s a bit more, sort of, and that might the ___
FG48
Yeah and that one (smoking) affects a lot more people doesn’t it?
FG43
Yeah but it feels more honest than this.
FG42
Think with the smoking one as well, everyone, ___ know those that
smoke ?probably? will disagree. Whereas with the other one there’s a
bit of a trade off. Plus the smoking one I just couldn’t see any
downside to it, putting it ___
FG47
It would have a bigger impact on the commerce and business.
FG42
Suppose really looking at it from a health perspective
FG?
People would just go outside anyway, I was in Holland last year,
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people were just all stood outside ___
FG47
But you find that in London now the offices and that with all cigarette
ends in the entrance way.
FG41
I walked through a fug on my way in here, people stood outside
smoking
FG46
I think it is ___ Sheffield go past two streets that have big offices, the
amount of cigarette ends that you’ve got in around these places is
enough to pave the streets, and funnily enough whenever you see
these crowds blowing smoke through them, ___+ were women.
Women I’ve not seen, think they had a survey sometime, I think it’s
about two weeks ago, shows that the amount of men that have
stopped smoking, the percentage by which that’s come down is
almost the same percentage of more women who start smoking. I
think women do it because there are certain things they didn’t do in
years gone by when ___+ because they were I could do it which is
the case if that wasn’t the case why is it that they ___ smoking, why
should it drop in men and increase in women, because that is a fact,
it is actually talking about an increase in consumption of smoking,
even in drink that seems to be going into an increase in women as
well
FG48
I’ve noticed though with the young people they talk about young
people, that it is the young girls who are smoking more, I don’t notice
it so much with young men
FG46
And it’s the young girls who are, that you could, connect with this
binge drinking as well, so why
FG42
The connection between these two is the strain ___ as we try and
improve people’s health in the long run, which may have a knock on
effect people’s health in the country ___+ I know it sounds a long
way off but if this country became wall to wall houses for instance,
roads and cars everywhere, industry everywhere to feed these
people, that in itself has a health impact. Reducing smoking increases
life expectancy, mortality falling, people living longer, so it becomes
twist of fate really, change people’s health and you ___ in the long
run
Me
Looking at these, these two again as you were, some of you were in
favour of one and totally against the other. Think you start to think,
why did I do that and I sort of, what are people’s views on why put
yes to that and not to that
FG43
Forgot your name ___ the benefits seem to us all to be so obvious
from banning smoking in public place. I mean I don’t have a problem
with what’s been termed nanny state, I mean this is what a nanny
state can do, what good
FG42
I think it’s the scale of it as well, like you said, is a bit harsh but 180
babies doesn’t seem very many
FG47
Yeah.
13
FG?
Only going to solve 74
FG47
Well smoking in one form or the other affects everybody doesn’t it,
whether it’s passive or active.
FG48
I think it’s also because we have seen this coming, there’s been a
pilot, if you like, in Ireland and quite a lot of restaurants and now
public buildings and it might be to do with what ___ said about a slow
increase in lack of places to smoke and so this step to me doesn’t
seem as big. This one (folic acid) seems like an infringement of my
rights, this one (smoking) seems to me to be something like I would
be willing to give up, like stopping murdering people, not that I do but
I would be willing to give that up because ?I can find? my life ___ if I
was writing a constitution that is fine, that one I’d tear up
FG42
There’s a lot of media coverage on that as well isn’t there
FG47
Well one’s infringing the rights of a few and the other one is infringing
the rights of a lot of people.
FG48
Fewer.
FG47
Fewer, yeah.
FG45
Plus ___ I said, known factors, feelings of numbness ___
FG48
Yeah well and what this is one at a cost of another, this has no cost to
it has it? That’s a trade off. But that might be what has been
planned you know. If we got an elderly population, ___ keeps
changing perhaps that’s the idea. You get more younger ones in and
kill off a few of us oldies, you know. It’s possible.
Me
Okay then. Last sort of question, after this I am going to go round
the table and get each of you to answer the same question. If you
had to have vote on both of these, I don’t want to know whether you
would be in favour or against, I am not bothered by that, just think of
what two factors would be in the forefront of your mind when you
made up your decision. What two factors would make you vote in
the way that you would. And I’m afraid I’m going to start with you
because you’re on the left. You get the longest time to think about it.
FG44
The sense of the ban if you like. A bit like that ___. This other one the
uncertainty.
FG46
If I had two votes or I had one, if I had two votes I would vote for
both of them.
Me
Two votes, but why would you do that?
FG46
Because looking at them they are both injurious. As far as the folic
acid is concerned, adding that, what the research carried out so far,
they don’t even know if that is doing more harm than good in another
generation. That is why there’s so much resistance in some quarters
to man made technology, they know the good that can come from it
but they don’t know what is liable to be after another generation. So
that I would look at folic acid in the same sense. And I would also
look at the smoking, well smoking, ban that in any case because we
14
know what the result of that is, they should ___ year after year ___
school ___
FG45
Well I think generally, that should be, the ban, regards smoking
anyway. But fortification of food with folic acid, I think would go
along with that, really because it is going to have some affects as
regards the babies so I am in agreement with that.
Me
Because it’s?
FG45
Because that is going to do good for the babies anyway. Regarding
that said lead to some elderly people getting feelings in numbness in
arms and legs, many doctors feel that this can be avoided.
FG41
Well the banning of smoking I think is one of the most obvious things
that it has been shown to be possible, particularly doing it gradually.
So that’s one of my reasons and the other one, just, we are able to
prove how much benefit there would come for the vast majority of
people. On the folic acid thing, I think I am not sure it would be
possible anyway and I think its thin end of the wedge, quite scary if
we were to allow the Government to dictate what they can be adding
to food
FG42
I would probably agree with a lot of that. If I was voting on anything I
think I would have to look at the scale of the problem that’s being
addressed and if it was 90 percent of babies were being born with
neural tube defects I don’t think I’d hesitate to say yes absolutely, if it
had a definite effect on that, so the scale of the issues as far as I’m
concerned, the big issue, and the certainty that any legislation would
have any effect. Might do, wouldn’t think twice about it if like with
folic acid if it was large scale problem would solve a lot of it. Again
you wouldn’t think twice about it. With the smoking, I know it’s a
large problem and banning it is going to without doubt improve
people’s lives, so I think if I was voting I would vote for banning
smoking and not the folic acid as it stands.
FG47
I would virtually be the same.
If banning of smoking effects
everybody in some respect whereas the folic acid one, it’s a very
small percentage and it has got adverse affects on another section of
the population. Whereas banning smoking on public places doesn’t
have an adverse affect on anybody really. Because if they want to
smoke they will go home and smoke.
FG48
I think I would reiterate really I would look at two things when I’d
look at this and one of the things would be proof, burden of proof and
it seems to me that smoking is proven and the folic acid is not and I
would look at the cost implication really in terms of health and the
smoking is in a win win situation for everyone because people can still
do it and they are not stopping people from doing that, we are not
infringing their privacy and their human rights. But with the folic acid
it seems to me a no win situation because 74 out of 180, which might
be less than half a percent of babies born in a year is not high enough
of a level for me to contemplate that, and it would be to the
detriment of another sector of the population.
FG43
And I agree with that. But it doesn’t just affect elderly people, and it’s
just some elderly people, how many is some, it makes you think oh 6,
15
12, it affects a lot of people and not just elderly. People could become
a serious problem. Many doctors feel that this could be avoided, that’s
a bit neither here or there isn’t it
Me
It’s two pages of the report and I’d sort of condemned it, that’s
almost an entire book, few paragraphs
FG43
Feelings of numbness in the arms and legs, well that’s not, very
serious you think
Me
If you call it peripheral neuropathy it sound more scary doesn’t it, I
didn’t know what peripheral neuropathy was when I read the report,
dictionary out.
FG48
Diabetics suffer from it don’t they, lot of diabetics
FG47
Yeah I have got a diabetic husband.
FG46
Yeah but when they go down with feelings of numbness in their arms
or legs, if they go ahead with this thing, it doesn’t mean to say that’s
the only thing that’s the cause, that’s the symptoms of something
else.
FG48
True.
Me
O.k. Well thank you, we have whistled through that because with a
lot of people talking, a few disagreements, that’s superb, thanks for
coming along that was it. What I’ll do now is I will come round and
get your signature so I can give you a little present for your
inconvenience.
Key
?word? Uncertain about word
___
Word inaudible
___+
Several words inaudible
(comment)
Comment from notes for clarification
16