Major Excursions
Meeting Minutes
January 27, 2007
Attendees: T. Walley Williams, Roger Scholl (AMCStaff), Ralph Blumenthal, Darcy
Turner (AMC Staff), Trish Niece, Jan Taylor, Pam Madigan, Art Peridce, Bob Bentley,
Merri Fox, Andrea Deaton
Ledge Clayton (9:00)
Betsy Goeke (9:30)
Guests: Katherine Turner, Narragansett, Ledge Clayton, Connecticut August Camp, Jenni
Blumenthal, Maine Chapter
Agenda
 Introductions
 Approval of Minutes of Fall Gathering
 Action Item Review from Fall Minutes
 Update of Trips and Budget Report for 2006
 Marketing Task Force
 Bank Accounts
 Receipts
 “Guests” and Rewards for participants who help out on trips
 Membership in a Bottle
 Report on Participant Evaluations
 Approval of trips
The meeting was called to order by Stacia Zukroff at 8:31am.
 Approval of Minutes of Fall Gathering
Stacia pointed out that there were issues with the trip numbers that are listed in minutes
and they are not consistent with the actual trip records. These will be corrected in the
minutes.
There were no other comments to the minutes and passed unanimously (Ralph/Bob).
Action Items:
 Trip numbers will be updated in the Fall Minutes to be consistent with the actual trips
 Action Item Review from Fall Minutes
General Liability – There was an outstanding question on the amount of Major
Excursion’s portion of General Liability. Roger stated “SHOCK!” Umbrella and
liability insurance was different then the one he was told. He took this on as a personal
challenge and insisted that the right number was found and resolved. The correct
numbers were for bed nights. They reduced insurance by several thousand dollars. The
projection for ME was around $30K and reduced to $22K, approximately $9K less. This
was accomplished by a number of meetings and calls with the insurance company. All
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savings were passed back to ME budget. Roger clarified that the total club insurance
was approximately $750K with ME being $21K-$22K of the general and liability based
on our bed nights and nights in the field. We also pay a small portion of the automobile,
errors and omissions insurance and portion of the sexual harassment insurance applicable
to adult 1-1 harassment. T. Walley asked for the calculation for 1 bed night. Rough
calculations were based on an average with 14 people on every trip, assuming 34 trips
next year with an average of 10 bed nights which equates to 1000 nights. The estimate is
$5 per night. The bed night definition is where ever you are sleeping. The insurance
carrier for the Error and Omissions coverage will not be renewing our policy this year but
have given an extension until we find another policy. This is in progress. Ralph would
like a better feel for the cost. It was determined that Errors/Omissions Coverage is
needed. Roger stated that if we were to drop it the reduction in cost to ME would be
minimal.
Call Plan Update – Darcy has 800# and is being put on wallet cards. Email was sent out
to the leader distribution. There is an outstanding question regarding whether it works
overseas. This needs to be tested to validate.
Handbook Update – The ME Handbook has been updated. Stacia spent a great deal of
time on updates. She thanked Ralph, Erika and Darcy for their help with the review. The
major changes were with consistency and reference to the internet.
Action Items:
 Ralph requested a better idea on the cost for the Errors and Omissions Policy.
 Coordinate a test of the 800# with an trip outside of the US to validate that it works
overseas.
 Update of Trips and Budget Report for 2006
Darcy reported that the final numbers have not yet been received but ME is close to the
break even point. With staff changes in 2006 Roger assisted with ME tasks. He
confirmed that none of his time was charged to ME. Thank you Roger! Darcy is waiting
on one set of paper work from one trip, other than that all trips are closed. The files are
completed for 2006.
Darcy also provided an update on the 2007 trip schedule. 34 trips were submitted and 3
have been cancelled:
(1) Honduras (T. Walley/Betsy)
(2) Whistler (Carson/Eric) – there were no official signups. This was a new trip. Jan
recommended looking at the prospectus from a marketing perspective to see if this may
have been a factor.
(3) Norway (Mike) all under subscription. Norway not a lot of sign ups which might be
due to the euro. Plan to propose for 2009. People anxious on carrying stuff on their
backs. Bob’s was transport.
Roger stated that the Board of Directors conducted a survey on Outdoor Recreation. He
will have Darcy send the email with the highlights of the survey published by the Board.
ME can then review to see how these trends may have an impact on ME trips. The
survey included demographics, type of experience people are looking for (Sea Kayaking
up, Backpacking down) and 40-60 demographics parallel this group. There is a downside
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of big bubble in demographics. There appears to be a smaller group of people from what
they are seeing in stores for outdoor equipment. The upswing is on adventure trips that
have an adventure component. (Earthwatch, community service trips, Habitat for
Humanity). Also this is the first year where EMS is closing stores. AMC is sending a
rep to the Outdoor Adventure Expo. T. Walley commented that there are backpacking
trips that go and how long should they be. Stacia stated a week. Ralph stated that the
way we have worked has been we wait for people to propose a trip and go from there
rather than soliciting leaders for trips.
In summary, there are 31 trips for 2007 and the goal is 37 bringing ME in a little under
plan. Stacia mentioned that it would be good to explore the flexibility of booking a carry
over trip from last year for 2007 if we come in close on budget. Ralph stated that this is
possible. AMC keeps books on cash basis and ME does on calendar year.
Action Items:
 Monitor 2007 actual to budget to see if there is a need to carry over a 2006 trip to
satisfy the numbers.
 Marketing Task Force
Stacia stated that she would like to implement a task force to look at the increase in
expense of marketing overhead and determine how we can better market ME and interact
with “Outdoors” and “Outdoors Online”. Erika is currently on a task force for the
revamp of the “Backcountry” section of the “Outdoors”. She will be working to make
the ME section more prominent. Stacia is looking for volunteers and she would like to
get started soon.
Ralph recommended that we look to expand the size of the listing. Other providers are
far more expansive. The “Outdoors” limits us on how we can market a trip. There
should be a way to market to web site via the “Outdoors”. Huts for example are given a
full page periodically. Can this be done for ME.? Pam recommended enhancing the web
site to be more prominent and more of an online magazine. Merri cited the ADK; on
their main page there is a clear thing on travel and adventure travel. Each trip is listed
with pictures well written and appealing with consistency. Bob stated that there has been
much discussion over the years on print media and it is hard for people to give an inch.
We can never compete with the Sierra Club. Buy in is needed from the “Outdoors” staff.
This will be focus for the Marketing Task Force. Stacia would like ideas from the
Committee. One idea is to get list of past participants. T. Walley recommended that we
think about our share of the publications chunk and how can we use it more effectively.
How can we utilize other media? Darcy can do for us starting with the two most recent
years and make sure there is list of emails of people and work with trip leaders to
populate a list of past participants. Pam referenced the Do Not Call list. Jan
recommended that we add a box to Participant Info from if they would like to receive
more info on future trips. Sue recommended that we add this to the evaluation forms as
well. Sue also stated that the awareness of ME needs to get out. There appear to be a
great deal of Club members that do not know the travel opportunities exist.
Action Items:
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 People interested in participating on the Marketing Task Force inform Stacia or Darcy
 Update the Participant Info and Evaluation Forms with a question to ask if they would
like to receive information on future trips.
 Bank Accounts
Darcy informed the group that the Accounting Office encourages people to use Citizens
Bank for checking accounts. This makes it easier for AMC to track and update
information. Darcy will be asking people to use Citizens. This is preferable but if there
is a reason that they can’t there will be exception.
Signatures need to be updated. Some accounts have old AMC signatures. Darcy will be
soliciting leaders to review signatures and have them update if needed. If they have a
Citizens account this will be taken care of automatically. Ralph stated that the signature
card is unique to each account. The banks retain the signature cards. Darcy stated that
she does not have clear records of the accounts that currently exist. She will be
contacting leaders for this information. Stacia recommended that she send an email to
leader list and follow up by phone if they do not respond. Ralph commented that post
911 the bank needs to know its customer. Coming with signature card they need
corporate resolution from organization and the bank will accept. Darcy will be
requesting the name on account and the account number. T. Walley recommended
having people send her a copy of the most recent bank statement.
Stacia cited the policy in the Handbook that states people should have a non interest
account and not pay a fee and if you can, get an interest bearing account if possible.
Merri stated that she has a savings account and wanted to know if a checking account is
required. There is not a Citizens in her area. Does she have to get checking right now?
If so she will move forward to obtain one. Darcy stated that the checking account is for
the convenience of the leaders. Stacia proposed moving forward to ask leaders to get
Citizens checking with free checks. Others with out checking submit to Darcy and the
preference would be to use checks from AMC accounts than do a personal transfer. Trish
recommended the procedure be in writing for using Citizens.
Action Items:
 Solicit Leaders for bank account information
 Leaders without checking accounts will submit information to Darcy
 Create procedure for using the Citizens account to assist leaders
 Receipts
Ralph and Stacia have bee in conversation regarding receipts for some time now. She has
not been clear on $250 limit and the deal struck with AMC in the past. Most leaders do
turn in receipts and this has not been a huge deal in the past but we need to be more
consistent in future especially for audit purposes. Ralph has been great at asking
questions because it is an important role and it will make life easier for him. Ralph stated
his background by saying he is new to the role and he has been asking questions on the
role and position. We all have a fiduciary responsibility to the participants and the club
and this is not a personal kitty. He has reviewed a few reports and talked to leaders, staff,
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and the accounting manager. AMC is so complicated. There are 100 major accounts not
counting 75-100 with ME. We need to do what is right and appropriate from a financial
perspective and not be burdensome because we are volunteers. Need to be clearer to
leaders and have common expectations. Ralph did start to draft a revision for Chapter 6
in the Handbook and this is a starting point. Draft text will be updated on checking based
on discussion. Ralph stressed the need for leaders to obtain receipts and turn them in to
AMC. ME is subject to audit and although it has not happened we need to be prepared.
Most chapters have been audited and their budgets are smaller than one trip. The purpose
of obtaining and retaining receipts is to insure expenditures are used for AMC activities.
If you did not get receipt just list it on a piece of paper with the service and the date.
What is a receipt? It is a document prepared by a vendor that identifies the vendor, what
money is spent on total price and that you received the item/service from the vendor.
Examples are Airline tickets, the last page of a hotel print out. Credit card statements are
less ideal because they do not have all of the above information listed. There is not the
same level of confidence with a credit card statement. Checking account statements are
the same thing. You don’t know what it is for. We understand that we can’t get
everything perfect and you have to use judgment. Keep reasonably clear records.
Threshold – Whatever number implies a black/white to threshold that does not work in
reality. Regardless of the number you may not be able to get the receipt. The bigger the
expense the more you want to push for documentation. Threshold in AMC for camps ect.
is $25. Try and make effort to get a receipt and turn it in. Ralph recommends using $25.
If we say required we know that there are circumstances that you can not get them.
Stacia would like to say that this will make it easier to reconcile expense reports. Bob
clarified that the level of receipts (threshold) was negotiated with Gary and Alex for the
$250 level. He confirmed that an overwhelming number of receipts are turned in. If
expenses were above $250 then Bob would go out and require receipts. Sue stated that
there is a new and old audience and they both need to be addressed accordingly. The new
leaders should be following the policy of turning in receipts. T. Walley stated that a
policy is needed regarding how we follow up for people who do not comply. The manual
should be updated with what we require. Ralph cited an example where groups were
given cash for 4 cooking groups and some gave receipts others did not. Jan explained
this to Ralph. T. Walley recommended that it would be helpful to put samples into the
manual on how to justify costs. Ralph thanked everyone for input and worked hard with
Bob valuing his input. He stressed that he is one of us and we are to do this together
In summary, the recommendation is to turn in all receipts and no receipts must be
accompanied by explanations. The following policy change was motioned by Trish,
second by Jan and passed unanimously:
“Trip Leaders are expected to turn in all receipts; no receipts must be accompanied by an
explanation. Anything over +/- $250 must have a receipt from the vendor.”
Ralph would also like to include some tips and methods for clarification.
Action Items:
 Policies should be updated to reflect instructions for receipts (see above).
 “Guests” and Rewards for participants who help out on trips
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Guests - Stacia stated that there have been questions on guest fees and people helping out
on the trips. The policy references “Guest fees for Trippers” this is the money collected
by leaders that collect a non-member fee. This will be changed to reflect the “non
member” policy.
Rewards for Participants – Stacia stated that clarification is needed as to what is
acceptable. There have been cases where leaders provide participants who have helped on
trips a monetary token. Stacia has never done this but there are leaders who reward this.
We need to be consistent as to what activity is acceptable and what is not. Helping with
driving and shopping may result in a $10 refund and this could be acceptable. Ralph
pointed out that driving help is more prevalent because of the ban on vans. Money back
is an acknowledgement for services. There was the reference to trinkets as a token
however a monetary award would be more popular. Merri questioned what driving effort
constitutes the occasion to give money back. Ralph agreed that there is a need for
common guidelines. There was also discussion on meal prep and shopping. Stacia
recommended that the focus be on the driving. Jan suggested putting the monetary award
into the budget and building in the expense and justifying with the amount of miles.
Then when the trip application is reviewed there is the option to comment. T. Walley
stated that this makes sure that there is something on the record. Ralph suggested calling
this a fee reduction and not a reward. Betsy stated that it would be the leader’s choice on
who the driver is. Bob pointed out that if it is in the budget the leader has discretion to
offer what they feel is appropriate. If $200 is budgeted then the Leader does not have to
give the total award. Also if there is another vehicle required this would not have been in
the budget. Ralph stated that any major budget changes need to be addressed with the
Committee and this is already in the policy. Betsy also recommended that trinkets be at
the discretion of leader.
 Membership in a Bottle (MIB) Update
Darcy picked up the topic from the fall discussion. There are a number of participants on
trips that are not members. Darcy went through 6 months of trips and counted to see if
participants were members at time of trip. 15% were not members at the time they went
on the trip.
There is the opportunity to purchase MIB’s by the case and charge the fee for $50 and tell
ME office and they can send out MIB. Membership will sell a case of MIB at discount
and there would be small piece of money that will go back to the ME account. Sue
pointed out that there would be administration work involved. Ralph stated that the
current practice with leaders is that if participants are not members there is an additional
fee. The fee is around $50-100 and is rolled into trip budget and is the quest fee. The
money is going through the trip budget as quest and not AMC. Bob referenced that the
quest fee has been equal to cost of membership. Ralph stated that he thought that this
was not specific in the Handbook. Bob also pointed out that there are participants on the
trips who do not want to be members. T. Walley stated that he does not want to be
required to charge a quest fee and should have the discretion not to. Darcy questioned if
there has been a rule that there is a quest fee. T. Walley confirmed that there has not
been a ruling and he would prefer that the situation does not change. He stated that the
China trip worked better with no quest fees. He also suggested that when you identify a
non member you should have prepared materials to send off and there is the opportunity
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to sell a membership. Andrea provided statistics that in 2006 there were 900 MIB and
800 all came for NY/NJ. She also suggested that a discussion be had with Terry to see
what the future holds for the MIB program because there was question in the value of the
program.
The consensus was that this is not a worth while effort and there are better places we can
spend our energy. The money would be very minimal for the effort.
Ralph recommended updating the language in the Handbook with clarification on quest
fees.
Action Items:
 Handbook update to clarify quest fees.
 Report on Evaluations
Darcy provided an update on the review she completed on all of the 2006 trips and the
destinations and activities that people were interested in. There was an 80% response on
question pertaining to future destinations and 165 responded. The main trends were for
trips to the National Parks and wilderness areas. 12 were interested in Alaska. Sea
Kayaking trips were also of interest. Someone questioned if we can consider looking at
the high number areas and go back and talk to past leaders about these trips. We need to
be more proactive to create trips where our people want to go. Darcy pointed out the
popular activities – backcountry, cross country skiing, biking and sea kayaking. Andrea
stated that it would be interesting to see what trips they responded from. Were the folks
on the Tuscany trip the ones who wanted more biking? Bob mentioned that bicycling
and downhill skiing are tough to compete with the various club trips that are offered.
Trish pointed out that there is an interest in staying in North America. After August the
trips on the books are big trips and we may want to think about local trips. Merri
recommended New Mexico or a Utah trip in October. T. Walley stated that there are
great western trips that we are not doing in spring and fall. We can become proactive
about that. If people are interested in the Marketing Task force this is a good tool. Merri
made a strong suggestion that some of the prospectuses could be better written with
pictures. The question was posed if we can have people review them before they are
marketed. These suggestions will be brought back to task force. Trish would like to
work on the prospectus review with Merri.
Action Items:
 Interested parties should contact Stacia or Darcy regarding the Marketing Task Force.
 Follow-up with the review of Prospectus’ prior to the marketing of the trip.
 Approval of Trips
The main areas of the proposal to review are the Leader/Co-leader capabilities, costs, and
dates.
Bike Tuscany – Approved (0736) – This will be the 6th time Phil would have lead this
trip. Dave and Val are new co-leaders who are co-leading with the notion to take over
running the trip in the future. They will pay half trip fee. Phil is leading the trip to train
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them. Air is not included but they will be providing assistance in getting airfare. Ralph
mentioned that they need to be sensitive to the exchange rate. Insurance for vehicles was
mentioned and the group needs to carry insurance. Credit cards are not the
recommendation for relying on insurance. Collision is needed especially for Europe.
Merri pointed out that the van cost is wrong. There are a number of details in the budget
which need to be checked. Membership fee is listed as $60.
Betsy Goeke moved that we approve with the condition that the details in the budget are
finalized with Ralph. Jan Taylor seconded.
Action Items:
 Budget review required.
Morocco - Approved (0737) - Pete and Elaine Carrigan. Elaine is co-leading trip with
Kathy Didier. There was a recap on the proposal at a meeting which Darcy had with Pete
this past week. There was a question regarding the stability and risk in Morocco. This is
currently unknown. Pete did at least 2 previous trips to this area and other organizations
lead there regularly. The State Department said it was ok to go. Political stability could
be good. There was the concern of a terrorist attack occurring but this could happen
anywhere. The question was posed on how one would respond. Pete listed that he would
monitor travel warnings and make it clear to participants that there is a risk in going.
They will also be made aware of crime in the country. Merri suggested that a statement
be added to the risk assessment and add cultural shock risk. They will expect differences
we will be asked to conform. Pete suggested requiring trip cancellation insurance if
something comes up, more details in prospectus to highlight risk. Participants can
register with the State Department that they are going and they will be informed. Bob’s
intent with discussing the terrorist concern was that both leaders have thought it through
and provided the Committee with a comfort level. Pete has been to Morocco for a month
and did this trip before with another organization. Ralph pointed out the use of an
outfitter and do we need two leaders. Jan stated that we have not used this outfitter and
the leaders are fairly new. Next time, if the trip is repeated, we could then do this with
one leader. Bob mentioned the insurance and suggested that they list the AMC as
additional insured. Darcy will follow up on this suggestion. Her understanding is that
with cultural differences other countries are not comfortable with adding. She did like
the fact that their insurance policy was a $20 million policy.
Betsy Goeke motioned to approve and T. Walley seconded. The trip was approved and
Darcy will work with coming to agreement on the additional insured.
Action Items:
 Darcy will work with Pete on the agreement of the additional insured.
 Modification to the proposal is needed to make sure if the leader is using a new
outfitter – Darcy will follow-up.
Hawaii – Conditional Approval (TBD) Stacia (Leader) Wyatt Biel (Co-Leader)Betsy questioned why this is it being costed as a backpack instead of a hiking trip in
terms of leaders contribution? Ralph stated that he believes it is being done as technical
trip and would Stacia be willing to bump it down. Ralph stated that it is a legitimate
question on a backpack. There are planes to only backpack on 3 nights. Backpacking
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gear and special equipment was not listed. Assuming there is 10 the leaders will not pay.
Bob questioned is three nights staying in tents considered a backpack. T. Walley stated
that with a technical trip it may be determined that it is of high risk and the participant list
is minimal. Merri confirmed that they are camping at least one night on the way up to
Haleakala but it is not technical. 3 nights does not make it a backpack and therefore it
appears to be estimated wrong. The group was in agreement. Someone also pointed out
that there is a lottery system with Haleakala. The group would like to understand what
the backup plan is just in case the lottery falls through. More information is also needed
on handling stream crossings.
The policy needs to be discussed and we need to determine how we draw the line
between technical to non technical.
Bob Bentley motioned with Art Peridice seconding for a conditional approval contingent
on tech vs non technical and the lottery back up plan. Stacia will be requested to provide
the answers back to the Committee via email and the Committee will respond via..
New Zealand - Approved (0738) – Sue Lach (L) Andrea Deaton (CL) – There was a
switch of leader positions for Sue to obtain a lead. This trip was done 3 years ago by
Stacia and John is doing it next month. Andrea pointed out that they used John’s up to
date budget fees. A contingency figure of 5% was used. The exchange rate was updated
on the spreadsheet. Sue and Andrea will send the updated files to Darcy and Bob.
Jan Taylor motioned to approve the trip with T. Walley seconded.
Mayan Ruins – Approved (0801) T. Walley (L) – Insurance info on the outfitter was
requested. T. Walley stated that there is no outfitter but a chartered bus company and
they are a common carrier that we have used before. Hotel pricing is based on the web
and T. Walley feels that he can do better. It is too far ahead to negotiate.
Ralph motioned to approve and Jan Taylor seconded. Unanimously approved.
Paris Walking Tour - Approved (0802) Merri Fox (L) Pam Madigan (CL)- Hotel costs
were questioned. Merri stated that $220/night hotels in 2005 were then estimated at $185
and it was not enough. It was close. They are trying to stay in safe specific area of Paris
so they can be close and walk around. A revision of the proposal was made and the some
of the budget info was lost. The risk assessment was reviewed and Merri stated that she
will be adding in the future notes on pick pockets in the cites and how to carry money.
The $3475 includes air. Jan mentioned that she can get cheaper but this is an estimate.
Bob pointed out this is in the middle of the Paris Air show so the rates would be higher.
Ralph stated that if you can advertise at a lower rate it may be more attractive.
Bob Bentley motioned to approved with a second from Jan Taylor.
 New Business
Maternity Leave - Darcy – She reminded the group that she will be on maturity leave in
the summer and Sarah will be filling in for here.
Keeper of Handbook – Betsy stated that she would go through the notes and make sure
they are updated. Ralph mentioned that when it was done in the fall Stacia took the lead
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and all comments were taken into account, reviewed with Darcy and Erika. Betsy thinks
that this should be a volunteer job. Sue will manage Handbook updates accordingly as
Secretary.
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